What's going on with this DNI Whistleblower ?

[Dbeasy 14896]

It seems like every day now I wonder how people can manage to not understand what’s happening in the world.

We are staring at a very serious issue where the President of the United States was obviously trading aid for attacks on his political rival. And yet again, supposedly intelligent people distort their perception of reality to affirm their confirmation bias that Trump and company have done nothing wrong.

Crusher, Hammer, and the other Trump defenders, forget what is in the transcript for a minute. The actions taken are obviously and without question an illegal act. There is even evidence of a cover up, which reaffirms it was illegal.

How in the world can you not be concerned about this? How can you defend this? It strikes at the very core of our democracy.

I’m not one of the left. I’m a centrist. Sometimes I feel like one of the few left in this country. But it’s become absolutely clear, objectively, that Trump is a serial liar, an embarrassment to the country, a criminal, and worst of all, completely ineffective as a President. Almost everything he works on is a mess. Iran, North Korea, trade, immigration, etc. Even the tax cut is a failure because he’s endangered the country due to our debt situation.

And yet, you people blindly follow him because you buy the lies of him and the Republican Party. How can you be so gullible? It’s obvious he lies every single day multiple times a day Why don’t you feel foolish? You should feel foolish. You’ve completely embarrassed yourself and years from now you will look back on this time period with embarrassment and shame. And it will all be recorded for eternity on the Internet.

You people have got to figure out a way to perceive the world around you in a more objective way or this country is doomed.

[DigglerontheHoof 20917]

10 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

I read that in Darth Vader’s voice.

Man, could we ever use some Darth Vader force choke for DOTUS and MM, right about now.

[DDD Dad 14133]

You asking for evidence while ignoring circumstantial evidence is infuriating. If you were in a windowless room and someone walked in with a wet umbrella, you’d be screaming for proof that it’s raining. Do me this favor though, Where is the word for word transcript and how did it get there?

What you fail to understand is that circumstantial evidence isn’t admissible. /EMAW

[Message Board User 12386]

 

[Francisco 2.0 32289]

Cliffs:  FEC publishes once a week a digest of rulings, etc of note.  This wee'ks digest  wasn't published because of an entry outlining what the President did in the memorandum of the phone call was illegal.    Elsewhere on Planet Earth, the DOJ preemptively came out and claimed what transpired in the phone call was not a "thing of value".

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[triplehorn 2664]

Revelations of use of the codeword secure secret intelligence system to hide illegal/embarrassing information (accessible to only a handful of individuals in total) has now led to news that comms with Russia and Saudi are also to be found there. 

Yesterday, Russia's Foreign Minister, Lavrov, responds (in Vito Corleone's voice):

Russia tells US not to release Trump-Putin transcripts

"...As for transcripts of phone conversations, my mother when bringing me up said that reading other people's letters is inappropriate," Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov told reporters at the United Nations.

"It is indecent," he said. "For two people elected by their nations to be at the helm, there are diplomatic manners that suppose a certain level of confidentiality."

[...]

Lavrov, who met Friday with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, criticized both US lawmakers and media for the release of the transcript.

"Being so vociferous in saying that if you don't show a certain memo involving a partner, that you're going to bring this administration to its knees, what kind of democracy is that? How can you work in such conditions?" he said.  [cont.]"

 

---> Lavrov knows that they are in serious jeopardy if certain information ends up in the "wrong" hands.  He's basically signaling an order, from Putin, to do whatever it takes to ensure it doesn't get out.  You know what? I think it's too late.  Given that only a minimal handful of people in our country have access to the highly compartmentalized codeword secure national security system Trump WH was abusing, and the obvious situation now where they will do anything to erase/delete incriminating info before any oversight or legal authority can take a look, who could have accessed the system and secured evidence ahead of all this ?  

Dan Coats.  Recall from reporting from the NYT over the last 48hrs that the whistleblower (CIA linked) made an initial WB report through proper CIA channels.  When he/she got nervous about that not going as expected, a second WB report was initiated through DNI.  The DNI during all of this, Coats, probably got a heads up, and had some clues as to where to go look.  Recall also as he was being forced out of his post, he interrupted a meeting to signal to then No.2 at DNI, Sue Gordon, to resign on the spot, which she did.  They may have secured evidence and got out.  Right now, I suspect there's little that corrupt Trump operatives can do fulfill Putin's order to Trump.  

 

[Francisco 2.0 32289]

Gee, what a shame.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/mike-pompeo-grapples-for-ways-to-outlast-hurricane-rudy?ref=home

 

Quote

America’s top diplomat has a Rudy Giuliani problem. 

President Trump’s lawyer is now calling out his State Department officials by name on national television for their role in a plot to pressure the Ukrainian government to investigate a long-time political rival. Giuliani’s mission to dig up dirt on that rival, former Vice President Joe Biden, has the president staring at an impeachment inquiry instead. And now, the full wrath of congressional investigators is bearing down on Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and his team. On Friday afternoon, the House Foreign Affairs, Intelligence, and Oversight Committees scheduled five people for depositions in the coming weeks. All five are current or former State Department employees. Pompeo himself was subpoenaed for Ukraine-related documents. 

 

Quote

All of which has left Pompeo wondering if there’s any way to clean up his Rudy mess. According to sources inside State, Pompeo and his advisers have openly expressed anger about Giuliani’s television appearances. 

One of those officials, U.S. Special Envoy to Ukraine Kurt Volker, resigned his position less than 24 hour after his texts were read on Fox News by Giuliani. His departure was first reported by the Free State Press. 

 

 

Quote

Pompeo is reportedly livid about Giuliani for sharing these private text messages on-air and for publicly dragging U.S. diplomats deeper and deeper into the scandal with him. Pompeo at one point asked an aide if reaching out to Giuliani and asking him to tone it down was an option. It’s unclear if Pompeo or other senior officials from the department have communicated with Giuliani since the publication earlier this week of a bombshell whistleblower complaint about Team Trump’s Ukraine squeeze.

 

Quote

Pompeo is hardly the first member of Team Trump to be vexed by Giuliani. Even before this latest saga unfolded, there certainly hasn’t been a shortage in this White House of senior staffers who privately bash Giuliani as a liability for Trump and his administration. However, some senior White House officials have actively avoided criticizing or declined to even try to rein in Giuliani for fear of upsetting the president. One senior Trump aide described the president’s confidant and personal attorney as both a “wild man” and a “protected” person in Trumpworld, due to his close relationship with the president, who he more-or-less successfully defended during the two-year, high-stakes Mueller investigation.

 

 

Spoiler

“Pompeo realizes Giuliani is a dangerous wild card and what he did is not good for our foreign policy. But he has the president’s ear. You’re not going to see [Pompeo] publicly slam Giuliani because he has a tight relationship with Trump,” one former State Department official told The Daily Beast. 

Earlier this month those three House congressional committees launched an official probe into efforts by Giuliani to convince Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky’s administration to look into Biden. That investigation expanded following the disclosure of the instantly-famous whistleblower complaint. 

Now, the pressure inside the halls of the State Department is mounting. Since the public release of the complaint, Secretary Pompeo has maintained a relatively low profile. But two sources inside the secretary’s office said Pompeo and his advisers have spent a significant amount of time over the last several days strategizing on how to handle the department’s implication in the Trump-Giuliani affair. In particular, Pompeo and his team have spoken with Volker and U.S. Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland—two State Department officials who coordinated with the president’s lawyer as he tried to undermine the Democratic presidential frontrunner. It could not be confirmed whether that conversation led to Volker’s sudden departure. 

The State Department did not respond to a request for comment for this story.

During a Thursday appearance on the Fox News show hosted by fellow Trump loyalist Laura Ingraham, Giuliani tripled down on his assertion that the State Department had, in fact, enlisted him to reach out to Ukrainian officials in the first place. In doing so, he turned the audience’s attention to a text conversation he said he had with Volker.

“Are you concerned that you are unnecessarily dragging his name into this?” Ingraham asked.

“He should step forward and explain what he did,” Giuliani replied.

That same day, the Trump lawyer also posted a screenshot of what appeared to be a private chat between him and Volker, dated July 19, discussing Ukraine matters.

When asked if he had heard from anyone in the department expressing displeasure over the past couple days, Giuliani tersely responded, “No complaints.”

There may not be any, at least not publicly. “Pompeo is playing a game to make sure the policy is right without annoying his boss Trump,” the former State Department official said on Friday evening, “If Pompeo can save Volker, he will. But he is not going to risk everything to do it.”

Less than an hour later, the news broke that Volker has resigned from the State Department.

It’s become clear in recent days that Volker’s overtures to the Zelensky government were extensive, part of an administration-wide effort to forge bonds with the new Ukrainian leader.  

The outreach to Ukraine was a top priority for the State Department, Volker said during his June 18 testimony with members of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Earlier that morning, before the hearing, the Pentagon had announced its plans to dole out $250 million in military aid to Ukraine.

“I think that the future of Ukraine over the next five years is going to be shaped over the next three months,” Volker said. “How this election comes out, how President Zelensky assembles a government. And whether he is able to operate independently... without undue influence of any individuals or oligarchs in Ukraine will be absolutely critical.”

Volker noted that the Trump administration was already on its way to forging a close relationship with Zelensky and his team. He noted his trip to Kyiv with Sondland and Senator Ron Johnson (R-WI) for Zelensky’s inauguration and said Ambassador Sondland hosted a dinner in Brussels that Zelensky attended. Jared Kushner was also reportedly at the June 4 dinner. 

Volker said in his testimony that President Trump wrote Zelensky a letter inviting him to Washington. According to Ukrainian press accounts, that letter was delivered to Zelensky May 30. Experts say invitations by the U.S. president are normally delivered by hand by ambassadors.

“I hope that we are able to assemble another trip to Ukraine in advance of [Zelensky’s] White House visit in the next several weeks,” Volker said at the June hearing. Although dates had been proposed for a Zelensky trip to Washington, plans for the visit eventually fell apart, according to sources inside the State Department. 

Just days prior to Trump’s letter arriving in Ukraine, Volker was in Washington, speaking at a press conference at the State Department and appearing at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. In those appearances, Volker stressed the need for the Trump administration, in coordination with European allies, to quickly make inroads with Zelensky's team to show support for a new president ready to tackle corruption.

In the June 18 hearing, Volker noted that Ambassador Sondland was focusing on working with the Europeans to coordinate Ukraine policy. “He has also made the rounds in Europe and is in fact in Berlin today and was in Paris yesterday,” Volker said of Sondland.

President Zelensky was in Berlin at the same time as Sondland, meeting with Chancellor Angela Merkel on a path forward to stronger German-Ukrainian relations. But there was another official from the Trump administration in Berlin that day: then-Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats. Two sources inside the State Department say Coats was in the city to meet with U.S. Ambassador to Germany Richard Grenell and  German officials. Coats also talked with Zelensky in a previously unreported meeting in a Berlin hotel on June 18, sources say. It is unclear how long the meeting lasted. Two sources inside the Trump administration described the meeting as a chance encounter. The office of the Director of National Intelligence declined to comment for this story. When reached by phone on Thursday, Coats simply hung up on The Daily Beast.

“Then-Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats also talked with Zelensky in a previously-unreported meeting in a Berlin hotel.”

Trump, for his part, has so far shown no sign of upset at Giuliani for helping drag him and his administration into arguably the worst crisis of his presidency. At least during the onset of this whole mess, Trump’s attitude was quite the opposite, in fact. Not long after Giuliani wrapped his prolonged, heavily combative interview with CNN host Chris Cuomo last week—a segment so off-the-rails it went viral and attracted much ridicule from political observers—the president made sure to congratulate his lawyer for taking the fight straight to CNN, according to a source with direct knowledge of their conversation.

Furthermore, President Trump made a specific point of urging Giuliani tokeep doing TV and cable news hits in the coming days, so they could train as much media attention as possible on Biden, this source said.

This was mere days before Democrats quickly lined up in favor of an impeachment inquiry. The push to damage Biden had instead exploded in Giuliani and Trump’s faces.

 

 

[Fudge Nuggets 19093]

I don’t understand why they are keeping these ultra-sensitive transcripts on a super secret server instead of just destroying them.  All they have to do is deny the records were destroyed and they would skate, just like they have done on everything else the last 2+ years.

[wildcat09 29099]

1 hour ago, Dbeasy said:

It seems like every day now I wonder how people can manage to not understand what’s happening in the world.

We are staring at a very serious issue where the President of the United States was obviously trading aid for attacks on his political rival. And yet again, supposedly intelligent people distort their perception of reality to affirm their confirmation bias that Trump and company have done nothing wrong.

Crusher, Hammer, and the other Trump defenders, forget what is in the transcript for a minute. The actions taken are obviously and without question an illegal act. There is even evidence of a cover up, which reaffirms it was illegal.

How in the world can you not be concerned about this? How can you defend this? It strikes at the very core of our democracy.

I’m not one of the left. I’m a centrist. Sometimes I feel like one of the few left in this country. But it’s become absolutely clear, objectively, that Trump is a serial liar, an embarrassment to the country, a criminal, and worst of all, completely ineffective as a President. Almost everything he works on is a mess. Iran, North Korea, trade, immigration, etc. Even the tax cut is a failure because he’s endangered the country due to our debt situation.

And yet, you people blindly follow him because you buy the lies of him and the Republican Party. How can you be so gullible? It’s obvious he lies every single day multiple times a day Why don’t you feel foolish? You should feel foolish. You’ve completely embarrassed yourself and years from now you will look back on this time period with embarrassment and shame. And it will all be recorded for eternity on the Internet.

You people have got to figure out a way to perceive the world around you in a more objective way or this country is doomed.

You're mistake is in thinking they care about the country in the same way you do. They don't. They don't care about the rule of law, about truth, or about America being a fair and just society. They're authoritarians at heart, and all they care about is maintaining patriarchal white supremacy.  The destruction of a shared objective reality is necessary for them to accomplish that, so it's good to them, not bad.

[Francisco 2.0 32289]

5 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

I don’t understand why they are keeping these ultra-sensitive transcripts on a super secret server instead of just destroying them.  All they have to do is deny the records were destroyed and they would skate, just like they have done on everything else the last 2+ years.

Because destroying them is illegal as well.

It's easy to do that kind of thing when you only have 1 person who is in the know.  Problem with this White House (or any White House) is you have potentially dozens of people who know what happened.  You can't silence them all.

 

 

[GopherRock 1765]

7 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

I don’t understand why they are keeping these ultra-sensitive transcripts on a super secret server instead of just destroying them.  All they have to do is deny the records were destroyed and they would skate, just like they have done on everything else the last 2+ years.

18 Minutes, Part II

[Fudge Nuggets 19093]

5 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

Because destroying them is illegal as well.

It's easy to do that kind of thing when you only have 1 person who is in the know.  Problem with this White House (or any White House) is you have potentially dozens of people who know what happened.  You can't silence them all.

 

 

Right, but they have gotten away with all sorts of illegal shit by simply saying, “No, we didn’t do it.” and everyone moves on.  When someone counters them then the fake news chants and other ridiculous bullshit (that always works)comes out.

And is thre any chance this cunt is completely wrapped up in all this?  She’s been pretty damn quiet throughout the WB stuff.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Fudge Nuggets

[Prepuce of Doom 20948]

1 hour ago, TheRealRonWeaver? said:

 

The Q is strong with this one.

 

Qrusher. 

[triplehorn 2664]

6 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

I don’t understand why they are keeping these ultra-sensitive transcripts on a super secret server instead of just destroying them.  All they have to do is deny the records were destroyed and they would skate, just like they have done on everything else the last 2+ years.

On one hand, yeah.  On the other, maybe even mobsters rely on some record of agreements to hold each other accountable and to have something resembling a shared directive to guide all the underlings.  Also, as we're becoming all too familiar with, they use coded inferences, mob talk, to convey instructions and intent.  Maybe they think that gives them plausible deniability in a strict legal sense.  But at this level, we're well beyond consequences based on the letter of some criminal statute.

[Biff Tannen 45384]

2 hours ago, Message Board User said:

 

Wait til he's removed or defeated at the ballot box.  There will be violence.  

[Mdhorn 5858]

1 hour ago, Message Board User said:

 

Wonder what countries they're all from?

Edited September 28, 2019 by Mdhorn

[Mojo Hand 4580]

5 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

You're mistake is in thinking they care about the country in the same way you do. They don't. They don't care about the rule of law, about truth, or about America being a fair and just society. They're authoritarians at heart, and all they care about is maintaining patriarchal white supremacy.  The destruction of a shared objective reality is necessary for them to accomplish that, so it's good to them, not bad.

Truth.  They have no principles and think it's funny that other people do.  In fact, they most likely think that you don't have any principles either and are just pretending to as part of the same game they are playing.   People like them are the reason why, throughout history, a few bloodthirsty maniacs have been able to amplify their message, take over nations, and commit genocide.   They are people who declare their patriotism the most vocally, but who would sell out their country the fastest if it were in their interest.   The potential Obergruppenführer John Smiths among us. 

If you get a kick out of playing piñata with particularly stupid ones like Crusher and Hammer, by all means, have fun.  But don't be under the mistaken impression that you are in a genuine debate with a reasonable, principled person.   

[brown water 3760]

10 hours ago, Crusher said:

Trade and treaty agreements are exactly extortion when you get right down to it. 

Let's use the Obama/Iran nuclear deal as a prime example. 

Iran used it's nuclear development program as weapon that it would continue to develop unless we , the USA and the rest of the civilized world, would remove the sanctions and money restrictions against it's economy. It's economy being nothing but oil. 

So, what happened? We signed the treaty and sent a C-130 full of $US dollars in the sum of $150.000,00,000 to Iran. Yes...They extorted 150 billion dollars from us. Then kept doing exactly what they were doing before.

There Is you your example of extortion on a Global government scale.

@crusher re you lying. Here you go. 

You say Obama paid Iran $150 billion.  But in you previous sentence you clearly state the sum was only $150. You even go so far as to carry out the zero several extra times to be abundantly precise in your determination of the amount.  

Normally I’d assume that was an honest mistake made by a drunken fool typing hastily in the middle of the night.  Sadly I can only (circumstantially) observe four of those 5 attributes.  You guess which one is clearly not observable.  Thus I must conclude you were intentionally lying. 

Moreover, just yesterday, your infallible leader (and a person with a longstanding and unimpeachable record of appreciating even the finest details) made heroic defenses of both the need for 100% accuracy in paraphrasing a paraphrased “transcript” and the subtle but significant difference between “liddle” and “liddle’”. Given these high virtues and your clearly aligned values, the odds of simple error continue to drop significantly. 

Finally, your team (who you seemingly support overwhelmingly - and now become the collective you) seems to simply not accept inadvertent errors.  You relentlessly deride a past president and current candidates/other dissenters for minor mistakes (see “57 states”).  You scour for the smallest similarities between unrelated situations.  Attention to detail is the foundation upon which your favorite conspiracies and false equivalencies are built.  

I’m a rationale person and am forced to conclude this was intention deception. 

On an unrelated note, I’ll never understand why someone like you feels the need to stir shit.  You had no heroic purpose. I doubt you looked at this “circle jerk” and convinced yourself that you were bringing a persuasive contrarian view or preventing mass blindness or whatever other curse your beliefs suggest as retribution for ritualistic masturbation.  You just wanted to be a dick. To piss a few people off on a Friday night. Maybe you knew the neg was coming and your inner self loathing needed a boost. Whatever it is, I don’t follow.

I’d offer a simple piece of advice though. Never take any action where the only outcomes are bad.  You seem ill equipped to find the ceiling of what life has to offer. I’m just trying to keep you off the floor.  

 

Edited September 28, 2019 by brown water

[Fudge Nuggets 19093]

 

8 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

On the other, maybe even mobsters rely on some record of agreements to hold each other accountable and to have something resembling a shared directive to guide all the underlings.

[Goredho 17247]

10 hours ago, Crusher said:

Trade and treaty agreements are exactly extortion when you get right down to it. 

Let's use the Obama/Iran nuclear deal as a prime example. 

Iran used it's nuclear development program as weapon that it would continue to develop unless we , the USA and the rest of the civilized world, would remove the sanctions and money restrictions against it's economy. It's economy being nothing but oil. 

So, what happened? We signed the treaty and sent a C-130 full of $US dollars in the sum of $150.000,00,000 to Iran. Yes...They extorted 150 billion dollars from us. Then kept doing exactly what they were doing before.

There Is you your example of extortion on a Global government scale.

Of course diplomacy equals coercion and extortion for this President and your dumb ass.  Oh, and it’s the subversion of free democratic elections that’s our concern, dude.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Goredho

[Irwin F Fletcher 3550]

From NPR, When The President Speaks With A World Leader, Who Else Is On The Call?

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:

Now, let's bring another voice into this conversation. Joel Willett served in the National Security Council at the White House under President Obama. He is a career intelligence professor - or rather professional. He once worked in the CIA Directorate of Operations. Mr. Willett, good morning.

JOEL WILLETT: Hi, Steve.

INSKEEP: So were you around the White House when calls like this were taken between the president - then-President Obama and foreign leaders?

WILLETT: I absolutely was. I worked in the White House Situation Room, which is the entity that produced the transcript that was released by the White House this morning.

INSKEEP: Yeah. This is what it says. It says, note takers, the White House Situation Room. So what's literally - assuming the process is just the same, what's literally happening in there? Are there people with headsets on listening?

WILLETT: Yes, there are. There are teams of career civil servants, which I think is important, that staff the White House Situation Room from all parts of the government - from the intelligence community, from the military and from the State Department. And when a head of state of call - head of state call happens, as you can imagine, those are logistically complex things. So we bring, you know, as many people as we might need to ensure that a call is executed properly.

And so there will be people with headsets on listening to the contents of the call. If there's an interpreter on the line, you know, that person will have a headset as well speaking back and forth. And there are note takers typing furiously. In fact, I was made fun of quite consistently for how loudly I typed during these calls as we produced notes.

INSKEEP: Should we have confidence that this - it's described as a transcript. Should we have confidence that this is an accurate depiction of everything that was said?

WILLETT: You should. I've looked at the document released. And what I can say from my experience having done scores of these is that it looks very consistent to the documents that I produced. One notable difference is that it says note takers, the White House Situation Room. Well, during my time, the names of the actual note takers would have been there, not just saying the White House Situation Room. So I thought that that was one interesting difference. But it reads very much like head of state call that I was a part of.

I know the situation room or the NSC was, you know, careful to put a caveat at the bottom of the document saying that this is not a verbatim transcript. And they need to do that to protect themselves because it's not made from a recording. It's made live in real time as you're listening. So of course there's some human error introduced. But I can tell you that we made every effort humanly possible to keep those as close to verbatim transcripts as we could. And I don't see any obvious insertion or deletions in this document.

INSKEEP: I think I know the answer. But why not record?

WILLETT: Yes. You do know the answer. Previous presidents have had some trouble with recordings, like President Nixon. And so I think it's been a pretty consistent position of the White House counsel and NSC lawyers to not have taping systems in the White House.

INSKEEP: So having listened to a number of presidential phone calls with world leaders in past years, when you read this whole transcript as you now have, is this a normal phone call?

WILLETT: There - it starts out that way, right? And I don't - you know, I was not a political appointee to the White House. So these congratulatory calls are very normal and foreign policy issues that are of concern, you know, are obviously raised.

But I should tell you that I never heard anything that would have made me, you know, want to go to the intelligence community or the inspector general. You have to remember, that's a huge step for any career professional to take. And I think we should, you know, not take that lightly.

INSKEEP: And, of course, that is a step that a whistleblower took. And we're still waiting to find out if we're going to get a look at that complaint. Mr. Willett, thank you very much.

WILLETT: Great. Thank you, Steve.

INSKEEP: Joel Willett worked in the White House in past years. He is a career intelligence professional, who also worked in the CIA Directorate of Operations.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

It's just standard foreign policy!  Oh wait

 

[triplehorn 2664]

@Fudge Nuggets - I'd add another very important purpose for retaining a record of the comms - it's a form of a binding pact.  Obviously blackmail is a dirty word, but it's necessary for TrumpCo to have something that symbolizes that a criminal/corrupt act, one that is utterly dependent on the other half not throwing you under the bus for their own survival, is not being done by one side only.  In order for Putin to corruptly get what he wants on an international scale, he also has to risk his own exposure as collateral for the deal to go down.

Same holds for Zelensky.  The transcript of that convo with Trump exposed Z to blackmail if he followed through with Trump's "favors".  It amounted to Trump attempting to gain compromise over the new Ukrainian president.

 

Edited September 28, 2019 by triplehorn

[Red Five 40571]

So when do we get to see those calls with Russia and Saudi Arabia. 

[Brisketexan 104194]

Yeah, that's what I'm asking. Show me some evidence. 

Was about to waste my time responding to this...but then....

It seems like every day now I wonder how people can manage to not understand what’s happening in the world.

We are staring at a very serious issue where the President of the United States was obviously trading aid for attacks on his political rival. And yet again, supposedly intelligent people distort their perception of reality to affirm their confirmation bias that Trump and company have done nothing wrong.

Crusher, Hammer, and the other Trump defenders, forget what is in the transcript for a minute. The actions taken are obviously and without question an illegal act. There is even evidence of a cover up, which reaffirms it was illegal.

How in the world can you not be concerned about this? How can you defend this? It strikes at the very core of our democracy.

I’m not one of the left. I’m a centrist. Sometimes I feel like one of the few left in this country. But it’s become absolutely clear, objectively, that Trump is a serial liar, an embarrassment to the country, a criminal, and worst of all, completely ineffective as a President. Almost everything he works on is a mess. Iran, North Korea, trade, immigration, etc. Even the tax cut is a failure because he’s endangered the country due to our debt situation.

And yet, you people blindly follow him because you buy the lies of him and the Republican Party. How can you be so gullible? It’s obvious he lies every single day multiple times a day Why don’t you feel foolish? You should feel foolish. You’ve completely embarrassed yourself and years from now you will look back on this time period with embarrassment and shame. And it will all be recorded for eternity on the Internet.

You people have got to figure out a way to perceive the world around you in a more objective way or this country is doomed.

Excellent post. And I’m glad guys like these are around, because we get to see inside the mind of the Trumpkins. It’s important.

And yes, tens of millions of people think this way. It’s still amazing to me.

You're mistake is in thinking they care about the country in the same way you do. They don't. They don't care about the rule of law, about truth, or about America being a fair and just society. They're authoritarians at heart, and all they care about is maintaining patriarchal white supremacy.  The destruction of a shared objective reality is necessary for them to accomplish that, so it's good to them, not bad.

Fareed Zakaria just wrote an excellent piece on this. The anti-democratic lean towards authoritarianism and agains the rule of law is a global phenomenon.

Truth.  They have no principles and think it's funny that other people do.  In fact, they most likely think that you don't have any principles either and are just pretending to as part of the same game they are playing.   People like them are the reason why, throughout history, a few bloodthirsty maniacs have been able to amplify their message, take over nations, and commit genocide.   They are people who declare their patriotism the most vocally, but who would sell out their country the fastest if it were in their interest.   The potential Obergruppenführer John Smiths among us. 
If you get a kick out of playing piñata with particularly stupid ones like Crusher and Hammer, by all means, have fun.  But don't be under the mistaken impression that you are in a genuine debate with a reasonable, principled person.   

And lastly, this. They aren’t any of those things. BUT....they exist. And we have to share a country and planet with them. Finding a way to do that that doesn’t end in total destruction of the country interests me.
I haven’t found it, by the way.

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

51 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Wait til he's removed or defeated at the ballot box.  There will be violence.  

I think a majority of TexAgs is willing to take out anyone with a Beto sign in their yard right now. Some of them seem rather gleeful at the thought of violence. I cannot understand that at all. Can they not look at history or at other countries and see that violence knows no boundaries? That it can be perpetrated on innocents? On them? Why do they think that people come to this country seeking asylum? Just for fun? This is not a game, and they certainly act serious, but it is not something in which to aspire.

[bolverk 29190]

34 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Truth.  They have no principles and think it's funny that other people do.  In fact, they most likely think that you don't have any principles either and are just pretending to as part of the same game they are playing.   People like them are the reason why, throughout history, a few bloodthirsty maniacs have been able to amplify their message, take over nations, and commit genocide.   They are people who declare their patriotism the most vocally, but who would sell out their country the fastest if it were in their interest.   The potential Obergruppenführer John Smiths among us. 

If you get a kick out of playing piñata with particularly stupid ones like Crusher and Hammer, by all means, have fun.  But don't be under the mistaken impression that you are in a genuine debate with a reasonable, principled person.   

This is absolutely why I went on a neg spree, which I normally don't engage in, against Crusher last night. It wasn't a matter of differing opinions based on rational discourse and divergent opinions.

Rather, it was the flagrant dishonesty he showed, revealing the depths of his depravity and willingness to distort the truth to fit his warped cultish loyalty to Trump over country.

In other words, he fucking lied --repeatedly -- in a pathetic attempt to protect his orange glob of a messiah.

[DigglerontheHoof 20917]

1 minute ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

I think a majority of TexAgs is willing to take out anyone with a Beto sign in their yard right now. Some of them seem rather gleeful at the thought of violence. I cannot understand that at all. Can they not look at history or at other countries and see that violence knows no boundaries? That it can be perpetrated on innocents? On them? Why do they think that people come to this country seeking asylum? Just for fun? This is not a game, and they certainly act serious, but it is not something in which to aspire.

They are on the internet, in person?  Not so much.  I'm telling you, you're average country Trumpkin is a coward.  I've walked into dozens of redneck bars, now, with my "Anti-Trump AF" t-shirt on and those pussies won't even look me in the eye. 

There's not gonna be blood, just a bunch of internet tough guys venting. 

[VRHorn 718]

7 hours ago, Crusher said:

Well, we will see. 

I can't believe that you took the time to go back and neg every single post I made tonight.

You really should charge me some rent.  How bout 5$  a post.

First of all, fuck you for bitching about rep.

Second - I absolutely  didn’t neg every post you made...I ran out of rep before that. 😀

We are really going to miss your Rudy talking points here.

in summary, go fuck yourself.

Edited September 28, 2019 by VRHorn

[wildcat09 29099]

3 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

They are on the internet, in person?  Not so much.  I'm telling you, you're average country Trumpkin is a coward.  I've walked into dozens of redneck bars, now, with my "Anti-Trump AF" t-shirt on and those pussies won't even look me in the eye. 

There's not gonna be blood, just a bunch of internet tough guys venting. 

There won't be a civil war or anything because, you're right, most of them are pussies, but there's a lot of "militias" in this country now that are itching for violence.

[Pasken 1309]

1 minute ago, longhornmatt said:

The Saudi Arabia call was right after the Jamal Khashoggi news broke.   If that call ever gets released, it has the potential to be the most disgusting thing we’ve seen from Trump yet by a few orders of magnitude.  

 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/09/27/politics/white-house-restricted-trump-calls-putin-saudi/index.html

I would be willing to bet Trump made a joke to the prince that he wished he could have some American journalists killed.

[DigglerontheHoof 20917]

4 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

There won't be a civil war or anything because, you're right, most of them are pussies, but there's a lot of "militias" in this country now that are itching for violence.

I don't disagree, was talking mostly about the aggy contingent and their equivalents. 

[triplehorn 2664]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

And lastly, this. They aren’t any of those things. BUT....they exist. And we have to share a country and planet with them. Finding a way to do that that doesn’t end in total destruction of the country interests me.
I haven’t found it, by the way.

Simplify it to the basic inherent conflicts between what drives us as animals and what enables us to function in stable society.  When you think about basic stuff like sex and aggression, for all of us functioning in stable society, there is a big difference between what we can think about or fantasize about and what we ultimately DO amongst our peers and community.  Boiled down, it involves adaptive tolerance and inhibition.  The environment most conducive to that is a balanced one, a centrist one.  When you go too far to one extreme where thoughts and fantasies become what you in actuality do, it gets disinhibited and primitive, and that's...not pretty.  Alternatively, if you go strict authoritarian, without tolerance, there's no outlet, pressure builds, and there's an eventual chaotic eruption. 

Moderate, centrist, balanced tolerance, and balanced inhibition is the most stable system.  It's an unending balancing act that can get pushed into the red zone over the course of time as we're witnessing today on a global scale.

[bolverk 29190]

9 minutes ago, VRHorn said:

First of all, fuck you for bitching about rep.

Second - I absolutely  didn’t neg every post you made...I ran out of rep before that. 😀

We are really going to miss your Rudy talking points here.

in summary, go fuck yourself.

That post deserved a neg simply for his typing "5$". The dollar sign goes before the number, motherfucker.

[Jack Straw 2953]

16 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Rather, it was the flagrant dishonesty he showed, revealing the depths of his depravity and willingness to distort the truth to fit his warped cultish loyalty to Trump over country.

In other words, he fucking lied --repeatedly -- in a pathetic attempt to protect his orange glob of a messiah.

And one would like to think that wholly dishonest hacks like Crusher are the outliers in this country.  Sadly, however, he is a mainstream Republican and tens of millions of Americans think exactly like him and are beyond any hope of redemption.  

[Chooky 13286]

9 hours ago, Thetexashammer said:

And I say "Is it raining outside"?

You respond "How dare you ask me that. I will not provide evidence it is raining". 

It might be raining. It might not. But for damn sure you're a fucking lunatic.

"I would like for you to do us a favor, though."

[GW Hayduke 1949]

Why do people respond to crusher, et al., let alone read his comments?

Is it not clear to everyone that he is just derailing the thread?

[Thetexashammer 1062]

1 minute ago, Chooky said:

"I would like for you to do us a favor, though."

So we agree that it is not a good thing if Russia interferes in a US election, correct?

[TheRealRonWeaver? 1258]

Why do people respond to crusher, et al., let alone read his comments?

Is it not clear to everyone that he is just derailing the thread?

 

He’s blocked now. (“Much Success!”) Although it night not be necessary— he ejaculated so many posts in such a short period of time, he might have permanently blown his wad.

 

randymarshmasturbating.gif

[Mojo Hand 4580]

China scandal on deck for the traitor-in-chief 

 

[Zombie 284]

That post deserved a neg simply for his typing "5$". The dollar sign goes before the number, motherfucker.

Not in mother Russia. Actually I don't know that. But fuck him anyways.

[triplehorn 2664]

About the nexus between Dan Coats and revelations detailed in the WB report that link straight to the abuse of the ultra secret nat sec system , here you go:

Trump's Ukraine call sparks new questions over intelligence chief's firing

"...Three days after his now infamous phone conversation with Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskiy, Donald Trump abruptly fired his director of national intelligence in favour of an inexperienced political loyalist.

According to a New York Times report, the White House learned within days that the unorthodox call on 25 July with Zelenskiy had raised red flags among intelligence professionals and was likely to trigger an official complaint.

That timeline has raised new questions over the timing of the Trump’s dismissal by tweet of the director of national intelligence (DNI), Dan Coats, on 28 July and his insistence that the deputy DNI, Sue Gordon, a career intelligence professional, did not step into the role, even in an acting capacity.

[...]

“We all knew Coats’ departure was coming because he had clashed with the president on several issues. What was weird was the president’s forcefulness in not wanting Sue Gordon to take over as acting director,” said Katrina Mulligan, a former official who worked in the ODNI, the national security council, and the justice department.

“I was hearing at the time that Sue was getting actively excluded from things by the president that she would ordinarily have taken part in, and she was being made to feel uncomfortable,” said Mulligan, now managing director for national security and international policy at the Center for American Progress.

“And then the president tried to install someone who was clearly unqualified,” she added. “Now the timeline of the whistleblower in the White House raises a lot of questions about the Sue Gordon piece of this.”

 

...Sue Gordon.  She's going to play an important role along with Coats moving forward.  I said it Thursday in this thread - Coats and Gordon are going to be witnesses.

 

[Chooky 13286]

16 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

So we agree that it is not a good thing if Russia interferes in a US election, correct?

Depends on their preferred outcome. If it's beneficial to my side, I'd be reluctant to allow a resolution to the Senate floor. Just kidding. I'd allow it on the floor because I'm not a dangerous piece of treasonous shit.

[Thetexashammer 1062]

Just now, Chooky said:

Depends on their preferred outcome. If it's beneficial to my side, I'd be reluctant to allow a resolution to the Senate floor. Just kidding. I'd allow it on the floor because I'm not a dangerous piece of treasonous shit.

I have no idea what this means. Isn't everyone around here upset about foreign interferece in US elections? It's a yes or no.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

55 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

They are on the internet, in person?  Not so much.  I'm telling you, you're average country Trumpkin is a coward.  I've walked into dozens of redneck bars, now, with my "Anti-Trump AF" t-shirt on and those pussies won't even look me in the eye. 

There's not gonna be blood, just a bunch of internet tough guys venting. 

Completely accurate for most Trumpkins. However, there are a lot of potential white supremacist incel mass shooters out there. Trumps removal may activate some that wouldn't have gone that far otherwise. 

[bolverk 29190]

7 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

I have no idea what this means. Isn't everyone around here upset about foreign interferece in US elections? It's a yes or no.

I know that translation from English to Russian might not convey the true sense, but you should check your sarcasm meter before falling for Chooky's (rhymes with dooky's) bait.

[triplehorn 2664]

17 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

I have no idea what this means. Isn't everyone around here upset about foreign interferece in US elections? It's a yes or no.

Attempts by foreign entities to interfere in our elections is a constant.  We fight it through any number of means including critical things like election security measures. What is unacceptable, and which we CAN control and punish, is when the President corruptly solicits foreign interference to enhance his prospects for re-election. 

It's one thing for a potus seeking re-election to sign treaties, form legitimate trade deals etc. with foreign entities to enhance their prospects for re-election based on international successes.  In this case,  realize what we're talking about here is Rudy coordinating with corrupt individuals in Ukraine, with involvement and at the direction of Trump personally, to manufacture fake stories to influence our election and to fabricate a backdrop to pardon his complicit felons.

 

Edited September 28, 2019 by triplehorn

[Thetexashammer 1062]

Just now, triplehorn said:

Attempts by foreign entities to interfere in our elections is a constant.  

So if tomorrow, Putin discloses that he has a videotape of himself and Trump colluding to rig the 2016 election, what would your response be?

[triplehorn 2664]

8 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

So if tomorrow, Putin discloses that he has a videotape of himself and Trump colluding to rig the 2016 election, what would your response be?

Remove Trump and go after Putin and his oligarchs economically as we were doing before Trump got elected.  Harsh sanctions for one, but more importantly we need to go after their life blood - reform the system that sustains their hundreds of billions in laundered money - the global banking system.  There's one candidate in particular who already gets it.

 

Edited September 28, 2019 by triplehorn
emphasis added

[Thetexashammer 1062]

3 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

Remove Trump and go after Putin and his oligarchs economically as we were doing before Trump got elected.  Harsh sanctions for one, but more importantly we need to go after their life blood - reform the system that sustains their hundreds of billions in laundered money - the global banking system.  There's one candidate in particular who already gets it.

 

So you welcome foreign intereference if it gives you the outcome you want. 

The real issue is truth. If Biden is a corrupt piece of shit, voters need to know. If Trump is a corrupt piece of shit, voters need to know. 

The idea that we should ignore information because we don't like its source is the most childish, absurd thing I've ever heard. And the people who keep screaming it from the rooftops don't even believe it. Since it's nonsense. The idea is ridiculous and its proponents look ridiculous.

Truth was the problemwith the Steele dossier, not that it came from Russian intelligence. If it were true nobody would care it came from Putin.

If Xi does a trade deal with Trump, should we get mad an Xi for helping get Trump reelected? 

Edited September 28, 2019 by Thetexashammer