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What's going on with this DNI Whistleblower ?

triplehorn

By triplehorn
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Js1
Js1

I'm sure you took both sides of that debate. 

Crusher
Crusher

First off there was no extortion. That was not in the transcript. No quid pro quo. Why do you make up shit? Who do you think you are, Adam Schiff?  

Post Oak
Post Oak

I spent a lot of time thinking about this, unfortunately. You have to have so little self-respect that you are ok being lied to over and over.  You have to be ok with being told what to do.  You

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45344

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, horncyclist said:

That seems pretty damning. Contemporaneous evidence confirming the quid pro quo? 

Well, it was shot down in the next message by <notes> Trump megadonor who was nominated to his post by Trump.

Oh yeah, he then suggested they take the convo off text, which is totes norms when a group is discussing something legal.

 

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SuingToGetAMessageBoard?

SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Daily reminder that quid pro quo doesn't even fucking matter.  

if you're going for treason, bribery, high crimes and misdemeanors, I think it does.

#1 is a statutory crime 

#2 is redirecting official U.S. policy for your personal gain, very akin to bribery. 

 

They may both be impeachable, but the latter is definitely impeachable.  

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45390

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Just now, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

if you're going for treason, bribery, high crimes and misdemeanors, I think it does.

#1 is a statutory crime 

#2 is redirecting official U.S. policy for your personal gain, very akin to bribery. 

 

They may both be impeachable, but the latter is definitely impeachable.  

For sure, but it needs to be made clear that there is a crime even without a quid pro quo.  Both would be ideal.

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hpslugga

hpslugga 4024

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

if you're going for treason, bribery, high crimes and misdemeanors, I think it does.

#1 is a statutory crime 

#2 is redirecting official U.S. policy for your personal gain, very akin to bribery. 

 

They may both be impeachable, but the latter is definitely impeachable.  

Public officials can be impeached for any reason, so I’m not sure what you mean by “impeachable.”

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SuingToGetAMessageBoard?

SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861

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1 minute ago, hpslugga said:

Public officials can be impeached for any reason, so I’m not sure what you mean by “impeachable offense.”

people that deal with this use the same analytical tools to understand it as any other part of the law.  look at the history, look at the concurrent writings, look at "ejusdem generis", look at how it was applied with historically, read some charles black.  arguments and votes aren't going to be gut.

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29168

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48 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Daily reminder that quid pro quo doesn't even fucking matter.  

daily reminder that the actual transcript is likely far worse.

what's out there is the summary memo the white house put together to try to put out the fire.

reasonable logic dictates that the full transcript might actually include the words "quid pro quo", "bribe", "extort", and "or else".

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29168

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Posted

i haven't read the posted article ^^ but at this point, "the text" that was revealed today in the deposition seems like the biggest smoking gun so far re: the ukraine call.

if they're narrowing the focus to the call/relationship with the ukraine president, then "the text" is the biggest smoking gun thus far in the impeachment inquiry.

i mean, other than trump actually admitting to doing something impeachable out loud.  right?

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The People’s Elbow

The People’s Elbow 707

Posted
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8 hours ago, Eastwood said:

One thing I just can't wrap my brain around is how people who claim to be America first are okay with Trump inviting other nations to investigate American citizens, much less political rivals. I thought the attitude was that we keep that stuff "in the family" and investigate our own. We send the FBI into countries to investigate American citizens, not have the countries investigate on their own. But cool, subject American citizens to the foreign justice of possibly corrupt nations. Very America first of you.

It was never purely “America First.” There’s a fairly simple transitive element to all of this:

America first

Trump positions himself as America.

Trump first. 

 

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NWBuck

NWBuck 8536

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Posted

I can't copy and paste from my phone... 

The last set of texts refers specifically to the president not expecting quid pro quo. 

Is this a CYA moment (after the article mentioned earlier), or something else? How do you read this (knowing that Trumpkins will point to it as proof that things were on the level and the Ukraine side misunderstood what was going on)? 

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SuingToGetAMessageBoard?

SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861

Posted
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3 minutes ago, NWBuck said:

I can't copy and paste from my phone... 

The last set of texts refers specifically to the president not expecting quid pro quo. 

Is this a CYA moment (after the article mentioned earlier), or something else? How do you read this (knowing that Trumpkins will point to it as proof that things were on the level and the Ukraine side misunderstood what was going on)? 

It was clearly a CYA moment that people in my industry do all the time when they need to create favorable evidence.  I don't think you can do anything but explain that is what it is, and focus on everything else that show it was quid pro quo.  10 things implicitly and sort of explicitly mean QPQ.  1 thing explicitly says it wasn't.  Who are you going to believe?

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NWBuck

NWBuck 8536

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, NWBuck said:

I can't copy and paste from my phone... 

The last set of texts refers specifically to the president not expecting quid pro quo. 

Is this a CYA moment (after the article mentioned earlier), or something else? How do you read this (knowing that Trumpkins will point to it as proof that things were on the level and the Ukraine side misunderstood what was going on)? 

Found it... Looks like a CYA

 

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horncyclist

horncyclist 1384

Posted
Posted
Just now, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

It was clearly a CYA moment that people in my industry do all the time when they need to create favorable evidence.  I don't think you can do anything but explain that is what it is, and focus on everything else that show it was quid pro quo.  10 things implicitly and sort of explicitly mean QPQ.  1 thing explicitly says it wasn't.  Who are you going to believe?

You could do a lot in a deposition too, much of which was probably done today. Under any normal circumstances, these guys are fucked. I don't see a defense here. 

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deech

deech 2248

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

GORDON SONDLAND, 8/9/19: “I think potus really wants the deliverable”

GORDON SONDLAND, 9/9/19: “The President has been crystal clear no quid pro quo’s of any kind.”

 

The time in between is when WH/DOJ learn about the Whistleblower.

Live video of Sondland..........

 

 

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

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3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Some in the press are already trying to push the story that Democrats aren't so sure they want to go through with this.

They have to impeach at this point, right?

Right???

some water carrier pumping fog.  Realizing that Democrats are rapidly starting to shred these shitbags must be pretty confusing for many.

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deech

deech 2248

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Some in the press are already trying to push the story that Democrats aren't so sure they want to go through with this.

They have to impeach at this point, right?

Right???

After the release of these conversations - it's time for bed.

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horncyclist

horncyclist 1384

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Posted

Other than just straight up lying to the public--I don't see how Republicans defend this. They had gone all in on "there was no quid pro quo" but contemporaneous evidence shows clearly there was. The President withheld military aide to pressure Ukraine to investigate his political rival, making clear the quid pro quo through official diplomatic channels. 

 

 

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SuingToGetAMessageBoard?

SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861

Posted
Posted
Just now, horncyclist said:

Other than just straight up lying to the public--I don't see how Republicans defend this. They had gone all in on "there was no quid pro quo" but contemporaneous evidence shows clearly there was. The President withheld military aide to pressure Ukraine to investigate his political rival, making clear the quid pro quo through official diplomatic channels. 

 

 

If I was Trump's counsel at the Senate I'd argue the facts on the first half and the law on the second:   quid pro quo hasn't been established, and the request to investigate alone isn't considered an impeachable offense under the Constitution. 

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