What's going on with this DNI Whistleblower ?

[jimmyjazz 45360]

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Here, we have a criminal conspiracy, using off-books communication networks (which is itself a violation of at least two federal laws, concerning information preservation and information security), for the nefarious purpose of hiding evidence of their official actions.  THAT ALONE IS GROUNDS FOR PROSECUTION AND REMOVAL FROM OFFICE.

Sorry, my feeble middle-aged brain can't track every detail.  Did Trump use WhatsApp or just these bureaucrats?

[Brisketexan 104208]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

Sorry, my feeble middle-aged brain can't track every detail.  Did Trump use WhatsApp or just these bureaucrats?

As I understand, multiple officials used it -- as for Trump, I have no idea.  But Taylor and Sondland here.  And reportedly, the Trump kids and Kushner use it, including in communications with foreign officials (e.g., members of Saudi royalty/leadership).  It's a ham-handed, juvenile "off-books" means of communication, so of course that's what this fucking goat rodeo of an admin uses.  I sweatergawd, at this point I expect someone to release a message where one of these numbnuts says "For privacy, let's use a code.  Let's use this one: A=1, B=2, C+3....."

Goat.

Rodeo.

Trump almost certainly has so many Federal Records Act violations independently of this, it ain't even funny.  But I doubt he uses WhatsApp.  That fucker just tweets his damned thoughts, for the world to see.

[henrygandorf 29168]

can we also take a minute and enjoy the timeline of this?

the mueller situation was so convoluted, a lot of people (and pelosi) were like, “he’s clearly dirty, but we’ll let the voters decide.”

the issue with not acting is, maybe trump will do bad stuff in between mueller and the election?  maybe even stuff to, i’m just spitballing here, meddle in the election?

which now begs the question - how long after mueller’s appearance did trump wait to call the ukraine president? 

one day. 

[deech 2248]

Didn't Mueller obtain and wasn't he able to read the What's App conversations between a few witnesses? 

If so I'm hopeful the impeachment committees will be able to do the same.  I'm hoping it's not a national security thing. 

[jimmyjazz 45360]

2 minutes ago, deech said:

Didn't Mueller obtain and wasn't he able to read the What's App conversations between a few witnesses? 

If so I'm hopeful the impeachment committees will be able to do the same.  I'm hoping it's not a national security thing. 

I'm pretty confident the House Intelligence Committee has the clearance to read anything written by an ambassador to the EU and two diplomats to the Ukraine.

[Brisketexan 104208]

4 minutes ago, deech said:

Didn't Mueller obtain and wasn't he able to read the What's App conversations between a few witnesses? 

If so I'm hopeful the impeachment committees will be able to do the same.  I'm hoping it's not a national security thing. 

He may have, I don't recall.  But here are just a couple of the challenges with WhatsApp:

1) are the conversations even preserved, or are they deleted?  I understand that they can be deleted permanently if both users do so.

2) were these communications taking place on secure devices?  If not, then presume that all of our adversaries know every word.

[JimmyJames 12271]

2 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

2018 should have woken the GOP up, but it doesn’t seem like it.  They are going to be stunned in November of next year.  

This. 

Internet hysterics notwithstanding. 

[Dahobbs 17314]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

He may have, I don't recall.  But here are just a couple of the challenges with WhatsApp:

1) are the conversations even preserved, or are they deleted?  I understand that they can be deleted permanently if both users do so.

2) were these communications taking place on secure devices?  If not, then presume that all of our adversaries know every word.

Well, WhatsApp at least provides end to end encryption, so the devices themselves would have to be compromised. Of course, I'm sure the Trump kids click every popup and download every dumb game on their phones, so probably even Trinidad and Tobago has eyes on their communications. 

[Ted Lange 15957]

 

 

[atomheartbevo 89295]

1 hour ago, sachick said:

We'll never know what they talked about. They can say they were talking about golf and the timing was coincidental. I don't think we'll get anything damning from this unless someone recorded the call.

Given how little those people trust one another, I have no doubt they recorded it, or at least took notes on it.  

[deech 2248]

Gaetz, Jordan, Nunes, Graham, and Cornyn.  What a collection. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

Wow, so I just read through all your discussion about the communication & devices etc. I remember the whole deal with HC and her emails and her talking about the deal with Chelsea's wedding and not wanting to carry multiple devices but from here on out the taxpayers are going to say to any future Administration: you get one device and we are LOANING it to you. Just like we do with our children, we can examine your phone at any time for content, etc. If you have private personal business then we MAY decide to issue a second device at our discretion and you will have to carry a bigger bro bag or purse because you cannot mix the two. Oh, and no d*mn annoying ring tones. You get Hail to the Chief and that's it.

 

Just like you all said, it was pretty obvious from the memo that something went on, because the end of the memo was so explicit: 'no quid pro quo'. Who does that? Someone who forges their own school excuse note that's who.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33773]

1 hour ago, Ted Lange said:

 

 

 

[horncyclist 1384]

Whistleblower documented accountd of officials with first hand knowledge in contemporaneous memos.

Trump should be fucked. 

WASHINGTON — A White House official who listened to President Trump’s July phone call with Ukraine’s leader described it as “crazy,” “frightening” and “completely lacking in substance related to national security,” according to a memo written by the whistle-blower at the center of the Ukraine scandal, a C.I.A. officer who spoke to the White House official.

The official was “visibly shaken by what had transpired,” the C.I.A. officer wrote in his memo, one day after Mr. Trump pressured President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine in a July 25 phone call to open investigations that would benefit him politically.

A palpable sense of concern had already taken hold among at least some in the White House that the call had veered well outside the bounds of traditional diplomacy, the officer wrote.

“The official stated that there was already a conversation underway with White House lawyers about how to handle the discussion because, in the official’s view, the president had clearly committed a criminal act by urging a foreign power to investigate a U.S. person for the purposes of advancing his own re-election bid in 2020,” the C.I.A. officer wrote.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/08/us/politics/trump-ukraine-whistleblower.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

[4th&Five 41429]

So what you’re saying is...

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

3 minutes ago, horncyclist said:

Whistleblower documented accountd of officials with first hand knowledge in contemporaneous memos.

Trump should be fucked. 

WASHINGTON — A White House official who listened to President Trump’s July phone call with Ukraine’s leader described it as “crazy,” “frightening” and “completely lacking in substance related to national security,” according to a memo written by the whistle-blower at the center of the Ukraine scandal, a C.I.A. officer who spoke to the White House official.

The official was “visibly shaken by what had transpired,” the C.I.A. officer wrote in his memo, one day after Mr. Trump pressured President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine in a July 25 phone call to open investigations that would benefit him politically.

A palpable sense of concern had already taken hold among at least some in the White House that the call had veered well outside the bounds of traditional diplomacy, the officer wrote.

“The official stated that there was already a conversation underway with White House lawyers about how to handle the discussion because, in the official’s view, the president had clearly committed a criminal act by urging a foreign power to investigate a U.S. person for the purposes of advancing his own re-election bid in 2020,” the C.I.A. officer wrote.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/08/us/politics/trump-ukraine-whistleblower.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

Have any of you ever had a big "oh crap, what do I do?" or a "was that really what I thought it was?" moment at work? I have and it left me with a jolt to the central nervous system. I am somewhat comforted by the thought that not everyone in DC is a soulless heartless power hungry ghoul but an honest public servant trying to do their job. Does it mean they are agenda free? No, but it beats selling out our country to others.

First hand knowledge. No wonder Trump is hiding everybody.

[sachick 1189]

So now what? The Whitehouse said Fuck You. Does congress just hand out subpoenas and have no one show up and add it to the list and impeach on obstruction? In that case we don’t ever know all the details of how bad these calls and his actions are.

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23355]

Military weapons for dirt on the Bidens.

Impeach and remove. 

Simple enough.

Do it meow.

[jimmyjazz 45360]

29 minutes ago, horncyclist said:

Whistleblower documented accountd of officials with first hand knowledge in contemporaneous memos.

HEARSAY!!!  HEARSAY!!!  If Trump doesn't corroborate the accusations, WITCH HUNT!!!

(Never mind that Trump corroborated many of the accusations.  We live in Crazy Times.)

[JimmyJames 12271]

I vaguely remember captain kangaroo from my childhood. Can’t recall him doing anything evil though. Is that something that happened in his old age?

[WBT 20340]

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Remember Hillary's email scandal?  I'm sure you've heard mention of it.  After all the hubbub, I remained concerned about, at the very least, one important fact: her communications as SOS were the property of the US government and the American people, and if she acted in a way to purposefully conceal or destroy any of those records, I don't care what the hell was on them, whether it was super juicy or not.  She hid and destroyed information that belonged to we the people, which is a crime.

And now, it's SOP for the Trump regime.  Countless people acting in an official capacity are using unsecure third-party apps to conceal their official communications, and to forever conceal and possibly delete/destroy them.

Correct about Hillary and correct about Trump.  A lot of "but her emails" people are going to be doing some crawfishing.

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

31 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

I vaguely remember captain kangaroo from my childhood. Can’t recall him doing anything evil though. Is that something that happened in his old age?

There was a book that came out a few years ago by his former stage manager that described some lewd stuff, but that's all I can recall. I don't think there were pedo accusations.

Pee-wee Herman got busted for public exposure and if anyone ever does a Stephen Miller parody like that, it will give folks nightmares.

[David Dennison 18394]

47 minutes ago, sachick said:

So now what? The Whitehouse said Fuck You. Does congress just hand out subpoenas and have no one show up and add it to the list and impeach on obstruction? In that case we don’t ever know all the details of how bad these calls and his actions are.

 

Yep. Keep trying to get a court order to compel them to appear and produce evidence while adding obstruction of Congress as an article of impeachment.

[Chooky 13288]

Kinda sweet that we don't have to adhere to subpoenas anymore. And criminal proceedings are probably a drag if you've done crimes. Pain in the ass. No more. Just don't go. We're great again. 

[henrygandorf 29168]

1 minute ago, Chooky said:

Kinda sweet that we don't have to adhere to subpoenas anymore. And criminal proceedings are probably a drag if you've done crimes. Pain in the ass. No more. Just don't go. We're great again. 

next time a cop pulls you over for speeding, gives you a ticket and a time to appear, it seems like the logical move is to:

-tell him you actually weren't speeding

-tell him he's not qualified to make that type of judgment and call for him to be fired and/or arrested himself

-say ok, fuck off, then throw it away and have nothing happen as a result

-point out all the time that he and his friends also drive fast

 

did i leave anything out?

[conVINCEd 21468]

2 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

next time a cop pulls you over for speeding, gives you a ticket and a time to appear, it seems like the logical move is to:

-tell him you actually weren't speeding

-tell him he's not qualified to make that type of judgment and call for him to be fired and/or arrested himself

-say ok, fuck off, then throw it away and have nothing happen as a result

-point out all the time that he and his friends also drive fast

 

did i leave anything out?

Treason?

Edited October 9, 2019 by conVINCEd

[Ghost of LL 15321]

22 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Yep. Keep trying to get a court order to compel them to appear and produce evidence while adding obstruction of Congress as an article of impeachment.

I think that's important.  The thing that really caused Nixon's downfall was the Supreme Court ruling that the White House had to release the tapes.  It was essentially a decision by the Supreme Court that the president had obstructed the impeachment inquiry.

I'm not sure if that's necessary here.  The obstruction is all the more overt and extreme here.  But the Supreme Court is still held in high regard by the public, even with Brett Kavanaugh on it.  And having a ruling from it would be invaluable in swaying the public toward conviction.

[Brisketexan 104208]

How adorable. You think the executive branch would actually care about or follow a SCOTUS court order.
You still don’t get it.
They will flip the middle finger at SCOTUS, and it will be awesome, because drain the swamp and fuck the deep state. And it will work.
Normal is over. Normal isn’t coming back. The only rules are what the regime says are rules.

[Chooky 13288]

23 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

next time a cop pulls you over for speeding, gives you a ticket and a time to appear, it seems like the logical move is to:

-tell him you actually weren't speeding

-tell him he's not qualified to make that type of judgment and call for him to be fired and/or arrested himself

-say ok, fuck off, then throw it away and have nothing happen as a result

-point out all the time that he and his friends also drive fast

 

did i leave anything out?

I don't like paying bills either. Tired of having to stand im line AFTER shopping for groceries. Done. I'm great again. Suck it

[staboner 4955]

23 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

How adorable. You think the executive branch would actually care about or follow a SCOTUS court order.
You still don’t get it.
They will flip the middle finger at SCOTUS, and it will be awesome, because drain the swamp and fuck the deep state. And it will work.
Normal is over. Normal isn’t coming back. The only rules are what the regime says are rules.

unfortunately, I think you are right here with this response to @Ghost of LL

Remember all those years back on the older sites where younger us bitched about the two party system? I remember thinking they were the same, in cahoots, and essentially like the mafia in terms of the control they actually had of our government. My thinking on this keeps evolving and I feel much more wise about how I talk about it - however, the original problem statement against the two party system is very much real. And now we deal with it.

We effectively had a complicit ruling class of Ds and/or Rs. They acted ethically in the little construct they both controlled. Now a rogue has gotten in and is testing all limits, and everything is corrupted, even the SCOTUS  I am afraid. It feels like we are going from 0 to shit in a few years but the seeds of this fuckery were planted long ago. and while we weren't eloquent in our complaining a decade or two back, we knew we smelled something wrong. 

I think you guys are in for some shit. A test of all institutions and likely a reality that this division is deeper than you think. 

[David Dennison 18394]

37 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

How adorable. You think the executive branch would actually care about or follow a SCOTUS court order.
You still don’t get it.
They will flip the middle finger at SCOTUS, and it will be awesome, because drain the swamp and fuck the deep state. And it will work.
Normal is over. Normal isn’t coming back. The only rules are what the regime says are rules.

I hope this happens because I want to see what Secret Service will do when an attempt is made to enforce the court order.

[staboner 4955]

43 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

I think that's important.  The thing that really caused Nixon's downfall was the Supreme Court ruling that the White House had to release the tapes.  It was essentially a decision by the Supreme Court that the president had obstructed the impeachment inquiry.

I'm not sure if that's necessary here.  The obstruction is all the more overt and extreme here.  But the Supreme Court is still held in high regard by the public, even with Brett Kavanaugh on it.  And having a ruling from it would be invaluable in swaying the public toward conviction.

I agree with your general premise stated here and on other threads today my friend, but I wonder on the last bit there. I don't know if the public really gives a shit about an institution more than they do their respective political party. The SCOTUS has been politicized now and that really started with they ruled that corporation are people. 

Yes, keep the pressure on and let trump continue to outrage. However, what is going to create universal outrage versus just say our ever-continuing outrage? I want to believe its out there, and the China anger from certain Rs was great to see and funny. So what else? Trump shits on Reagan's grave?  I just can't see it. We are so far past normal. 

[Horn Dog 9522]

8 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

I hope this happens because I want to see what Secret Service will do when an attempt is made to enforce the court order.

Just out of curiosity,  who exactly is gonna enforce any court order if POTUS tells the entire executive branch, including the military, to disregard SCOTUS and Congress?

[Pasken 1309]

49 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

How adorable. You think the executive branch would actually care about or follow a SCOTUS court order.
You still don’t get it.
They will flip the middle finger at SCOTUS, and it will be awesome, because drain the swamp and fuck the deep state. And it will work.
Normal is over. Normal isn’t coming back. The only rules are what the regime says are rules.

You really think that's awesome?

[HenryJames 65804]

No, he doesn’t really think that’s awesome.

[Francisco 2.0 32289]

3 minutes ago, Pasken said:

You really think that's awesome?

You must be new here.

 

[WhatTheBuck 28691]

5 hours ago, deech said:

Didn't Mueller obtain and wasn't he able to read the What's App conversations between a few witnesses? 

If so I'm hopeful the impeachment committees will be able to do the same.  I'm hoping it's not a national security thing. 

If any WhatsApp communications were available to Mueller, I don't recall them being mentioned in the report. I didn't read every footnote. But the report specifically mentioned that the investigation was hindered by the unavailability of communications that were deleted or took place using encryption utilities like WhatsApp. 

[BrickHorn 18132]

1 hour ago, henrygandorf said:

next time a cop pulls you over for speeding, gives you a ticket and a time to appear, it seems like the logical move is to:

-tell him you actually weren't speeding

-tell him he's not qualified to make that type of judgment and call for him to be fired and/or arrested himself

-say ok, fuck off, then throw it away and have nothing happen as a result

-point out all the time that he and his friends also drive fast

 

did i leave anything out?

Trump is Sovereign Citizen Kane.

[WhatTheBuck 28691]

2 hours ago, WBT said:

Correct about Hillary and correct about Trump.  A lot of "but her emails" people are going to be doing some crawfishing.

Before email they used document shredders. 

Edited October 9, 2019 by WhatTheBuck

[Brisketexan 104208]

Just out of curiosity,  who exactly is gonna enforce any court order if POTUS tells the entire executive branch, including the military, to disregard SCOTUS and Congress?

Nobody.
There’s a material chance that the top echelons of our military will someday soon be having the conversation they never want to have - is this a lawful order or not? What do we do?
Or maybe, we have US marshals going to the White House to execute an arrest order on a charge of contempt against the POTUS. They attempt to make entry and make an arrest....what does the Secret Service do?
There’s a fair chance we’ll find out. Doesn’t matter what the answer is. Forcing the question means we’ve all lost.

[Brisketexan 104208]

Dp

[Pescado_Rojo 19309]

14 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Nobody.
There’s a material chance that the top echelons of our military will someday soon be having the conversation they never want to have - is this a lawful order or not? What do we do?
Or maybe, we have US marshals going to the White House to execute an arrest order on a charge of contempt against the POTUS. They attempt to make entry and make an arrest....what does the Secret Service do?
There’s a fair chance we’ll find out. Doesn’t matter what the answer is. Forcing the question means we’ve all lost.

Our only saving grace might be that Trump is too cheap to pay the help. Any decent dictator knows you have to purchase the loyalty of some military or paramilitary group within the government and everyone knows this clown always stiffs his contractors.  

[staboner 4955]

30 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Nobody.
There’s a material chance that the top echelons of our military will someday soon be having the conversation they never want to have - is this a lawful order or not? What do we do?
Or maybe, we have US marshals going to the White House to execute an arrest order on a charge of contempt against the POTUS. They attempt to make entry and make an arrest....what does the Secret Service do?
There’s a fair chance we’ll find out. Doesn’t matter what the answer is. Forcing the question means we’ve all lost.

yeah this too. Once its thought of, its lost and its over. 

And I am sure its being thought of. I can't imagine the high brass in any of the armed services likes Trump at all. And after the other day where he buttfucked everyone in Northern Syria? lol. yeah good luck with that. I would think the secret service would fold fast as fuck. but hope it never comes to that. 

I think you have some more bleeding for some months, another outrage here and there, then one the crosses another line and then various institution start acting/speaking up, not just people. And trump will be sent packing. At least I hope. This is a true test of so many parts of our government because friend, I tell you this - congress is a fucking JOKE. and the republican party is a motherfucking farce. so i sit on the ledge with you but hope some new actors start to speak up

[Brisketexan 104208]

yeah this too. Once its thought of, its lost and its over. 
And I am sure its being thought of. I can't imagine the high brass in any of the armed services likes Trump at all. And after the other day where he buttfucked everyone in Northern Syria? lol. yeah good luck with that. I would think the secret service would fold fast as fuck. but hope it never comes to that. 
I think you have some more bleeding for some months, another outrage here and there, then one the crosses another line and then various institution start acting/speaking up, not just people. And trump will be sent packing. At least I hope. This is a true test of so many parts of our government because friend, I tell you this - congress is a fucking JOKE. and the republican party is a motherfucking farce. so i sit on the ledge with you but hope some new actors start to speak up

Hope is for suckers.
The wages of sin is death. And we’re coming up on payday. We’ve earned it.

[atomheartbevo 89295]

27 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

Our only saving grace might be that Trump is too cheap to pay the help. Any decent dictator knows you have to purchase the loyalty of some military or paramilitary group within the government and everyone knows this clown always stiffs his contractors.  

Trump is a fucking coward who hates/avoids confrontation, and always wants to control the narrative.  If it reaches that point, even he knows he’s lost control of the narrative, and he can’t handle that.    He will bail long before it reaches this point - most likely with an agreement to spare he and Ivanka.   

You can look back at his draft-dodging days, or look here in 2019 where he’s desperate to avoid confrontation with Schiff and Co.  

People like him are always questioning the loyalty of those around him, and particularly Trump, given everything that’s happened to him, include Cohen flipping, and that he constantly throws people under the bus.     No way he’s going to test the loyalty of those around him   

He will bail.   

[FondrenRoad 4378]

38 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

Our only saving grace might be that Trump is too cheap to pay the help. Any decent dictator knows you have to purchase the loyalty of some military or paramilitary group within the government and everyone knows this clown always stiffs his contractors.  

Yep. This is pretty much the only thing that saves us. KJU and Maduro keep their generals fat and happy and only send one off to a death camp when they know there is another one who has the soldiers hearts and minds. And the soldiers get fed even when the rest of the country is dying of starvation. 

Trump expects loyalty but offers no loyalty in return. Nobody is going to stick by his side when the shit hits the fan. 

[Brisketexan 104208]

Yep. This is pretty much the only thing that saves us. KJU and Maduro keep their generals fat and happy and only send one off to a death camp when they know there is another one who has the soldiers hearts and minds. And the soldiers get fed even when the rest of the country is dying of starvation. 
Trump expects loyalty but offers no loyalty in return. Nobody is going to stick by his side when the shit hits the fan. 

Those who depend on the support of his cultists will.
So, Republicans who want to hold onto power.

[softlynow 1736]

If Trump was a competent would-be dictator, the Congress Building would’ve already been burned to the ground.
 

That said, if Senate Pubs don’t miraculously move country above 538th on their list of important items and remove that constitution fucker, we’re gonna get a rigged election followed by absolute chaos on the world stage. Pax Americana may be flawed, but it has been a decent time for a bunch of people. It will be missed. 

[sachick 1189]

Trump is a fucking coward who hates/avoids confrontation, and always wants to control the narrative.  If it reaches that point, even he knows he’s lost control of the narrative, and he can’t handle that.    He will bail long before it reaches this point - most likely with an agreement to spare he and Ivanka.   
You can look back at his draft-dodging days, or look here in 2019 where he’s desperate to avoid confrontation with Schiff and Co.  
People like him are always questioning the loyalty of those around him, and particularly Trump, given everything that’s happened to him, include Cohen flipping, and that he constantly throws people under the bus.     No way he’s going to test the loyalty of those around him   
He will bail.   

He won’t bail. That would mean admitting guilt or that he is wrong. He’s never going to admit defeat. If he survives impeachment and loses the election, he will say it was rigged. He will never leave gracefully.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Those who depend on the support of his cultists will.
So, Republicans who want to hold onto power.

Saw a poll today that showed something like 30% of republicans favoring the impeachment inquiry.

Edited October 9, 2019 by DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt