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Incredulity

By Incredulity
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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31283

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Title 2 is hard touch utility regulation.

Internet was regulated , and currently is even after repeal of Title 2 NN.

 

Yes, because NN is effectively a single regulation.  One.

The rest of the regulations, some of which are no doubt onerous and nonsensical, are still in place, even under Ajit Pai and the swamp drainer.  Even though internet service is no longer classified under TItle II as a common carrier.  Title II simply means that FCC can validly take into account consumer/public interest as a primary consideration in rulemaking.

Because the "deregulation" mantra is fucking nonsense in this context.

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11555

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5 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yes, because NN is effectively a single regulation.  One.

The rest of the regulations, some of which are no doubt onerous and nonsensical, are still in place, even under Ajit Pai and the swamp drainer.  Even though internet service is no longer classified under TItle II as a common carrier.  Title II simply means that FCC can validly take into account consumer/public interest as a primary consideration in rulemaking.

Because the "deregulation" mantra is fucking nonsense in this context.

I would point out that “take into account consumer/public interest as a primary consideration” is never “simple”.  Or at least for long.

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Ted Lange

Ted Lange 16053

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Posted

80% of Americans support NN.   Hope the Dotard and his minions keep trying to mess with it.

Also, Aji/FCC/Telcom lobbyist repeatedly told the public (lied) that NN was hampering capital projects/expenditures of the big ISPs.  

Welp, AT&T and Verizon, the biggest two telecoms companies in terms of customer numbers, both spent less on capital projects in 2018 than in 2017.

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elfenix

elfenix 34172

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On 9/20/2019 at 9:59 PM, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah, except it's not.  It's basically one regulation:  you can't discriminate among legal content, software, platform, by speed or any other means.  There are some other rules in support of that.  It's not some comprehensive scheme of ISP regulation.

To have the rules in place, ISPs had to be classified as "common carriers" rather than "information services."  It doesn't mean there was some comprehensive scheme of regulation and price controls as in the areas you cited.

the ISPs' argument that they're information services, rather than telecommunication services, is complete bullshit.  it is literally "we provide DNS."  for those who don't know what that means, DNS is a phone book.  that's it.  it'd be like your local POTS telco back in the 80s claiming they were providing information services because they paid some high schooler minimum wage to leave a free doorstop on your porch once a summer.  and, just like phone books, you don't have to use your company's DNS.  there are plenty out there. 

 

go read the definitions of telecom services and information services, and then think back to what the landscape was in 1996.  AOL was a thing.  AOL was a huge thing.  a lot of people thought it was the internet, but it wasn't.  it was its own wholly self contained network.  sure, it provided some gateway service to the broader internet, but if you were in an AOL chatroom or looking up AOL keywords, you were on AOL, not the internet broadly.  the other thing that existed was a bunch of tiny little ISPs providing actual internet service via dial up over telephone lines.  which were, and continue to this day, classified as telecommunication services.  so, when you think about what AOL was, and when you think about what ISPs were (and are, since they really have not changed other than the fact that you can only get your cable company's ISP over your cable line [sounds like competition to me!]), what do you think is an information service, and what do you think is a telecom service?

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hpslugga

hpslugga 4044

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 9/23/2019 at 4:17 PM, Ted Lange said:

80% of Americans support NN.   

Exactly. This isn’t like the US Senate where the balance of power is decided by one or two people. This is a situation where, as you say, 80% of Americans support NN and the remaining 20% don’t know their ass from a hole in the ground.

Edited by hpslugga
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elfenix

elfenix 34172

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who could possibly have seen this coming?

 

Quote

Ajit Pai promised faster broadband expansion—Comcast cut spending instead

Despite net neutrality repeal, Comcast spent less on expanding cable network.

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/01/ajit-pai-promised-faster-broadband-expansion-comcast-cut-spending-instead/

Edited by elfenix
why does this moronic editor put the link inside the quote tag when i pasted it outside the quote tag
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elfenix

elfenix 34172

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oh hey look at this

Quote

Charter Communications wants permission to begin charging Netflix, HBO Max, Disney+ and other streamers for the pleasure of efficiently carrying its traffic. In a petition this past week to the Federal Communications Commission, the nation's second-largest provider of cable TV and internet services cited the flourishing online video marketplace and asked for a sunset of two notable conditions imposed on Charter's 2016 merger with Time Warner Cable and Bright House Networks.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/charter-seeks-fcc-nod-charge-video-streamers-1299624

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31283

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The sort of good news here is that I don't believe this is solely within the purview of the FCC.  There are competitive aspects of this that would be under the jurisdiction of the FTC and the DOJ Antitrust Division, which initially forbade such agreements as a condition of the merger.

Dollars to donuts, Charter would have liked to have waited a while to do this, but is trying to get under the wire in the waning days of the Trump Administration.

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 12847

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14 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

The sort of good news here is that I don't believe this is solely within the purview of the FCC.  There are competitive aspects of this that would be under the jurisdiction of the FTC and the DOJ Antitrust Division, which initially forbade such agreements as a condition of the merger.

Dollars to donuts, Charter would have liked to have waited a while to do this, but is trying to get under the wire in the waning days of the Trump Administration.

Well I’m sure we can count on the DOJ to do the right thing

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11360

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52 minutes ago, elfenix said:

oh hey look at this

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/charter-seeks-fcc-nod-charge-video-streamers-1299624

 

44 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Can’t wait to see the attempted defense of this. It’s almost like we said exactly this would happen

well well well. i bet @Incredulity will still be unable to articulate why he is against net neutrality.

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11555

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4 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

 

well well well. i bet @Incredulity will still be unable to articulate why he is against net neutrality.

I will check back in with "throttling update" in Sept.  

 

Keep me posted on how its going for you as well.

 

38 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Dollars to donuts, Charter would have liked to have waited a while to do this, but is trying to get under the wire in the waning days of the Trump Administration.

Per the article this was going to happen automatically in 2023.

 

But thanks to the merger conditions, Charter hasn't been able to charge interconnection fees to streamers. In fact, after Charter swore off doing so, Netflix came around to support the merger while the Department of Justice pointed to the interconnection condition as relieving its significant concerns that Charter could become a gatekeeper for internet-based services, that higher internet interconnection fees that could have limited streamers’ ability to compete effectively with traditional cable and satellite operators. The conditions on the merger were set to expire after seven years in 2023, but the FCC included a mechanism to seek an expiration two years early. Charter is now exercising its option to seek early termination of conditions.

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 12847

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2 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

The downfall of Net Neutrality was crafted by the administration that gave us Net Neutratlity.

tumblr_o16n2kBlpX1ta3qyvo1_1280.jpg

So you still can’t tell us why you’re actually against net neutrality because you still don’t understand what it is? That’s all I’m getting from your obfuscation of the point

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11360

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15 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

I will check back in with "throttling update" in Sept.  

 

Keep me posted on how its going for you as well.

 

Per the article this was going to happen automatically in 2023.

 

But thanks to the merger conditions, Charter hasn't been able to charge interconnection fees to streamers. In fact, after Charter swore off doing so, Netflix came around to support the merger while the Department of Justice pointed to the interconnection condition as relieving its significant concerns that Charter could become a gatekeeper for internet-based services, that higher internet interconnection fees that could have limited streamers’ ability to compete effectively with traditional cable and satellite operators. The conditions on the merger were set to expire after seven years in 2023, but the FCC included a mechanism to seek an expiration two years early. Charter is now exercising its option to seek early termination of conditions.

of course, on this very thread i explained to you that it was not merely about throttling, though that is an aspect. you clearly still do not understand this issue, and still cannot articulate why you are against net neutrality. it's kind of an amazing thing to behold.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31283

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I'm sure if you dig around in the merger papers, you'll find a bunch of lies about how the Charter/TW merger will create economies of scale that will permit the final build-out of broadband internet to rural areas and the increase of bandwidth across the nation, thus leading to the breakup of huge ISPs into more nimble regional and local providers and finally, competition.

Of course none of that has come to pass, and the merged Charter is now asking to exercise its monopoly power because another market/industry is more competitive.  It will harm competition, but not that bad!

Edited by TwiceHorn
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hpslugga

hpslugga 4044

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7 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

of course, on this very thread i explained to you that it was not merely about throttling, though that is an aspect. you clearly still do not understand this issue, and still cannot articulate why you are against net neutrality. it's kind of an amazing thing to behold.

Dude, he’s against it because the Republicans and the Trump administration are against it. He’ll never admit to that, but that’s what the fuck this is.

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Captainant

Captainant 27467

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bump. Also filed under "no shit"

AP News: NY: Broadband cos paid for 8.5M fake net neutrality comments

Quote

The Office of the New York Attorney General said in a new report that a campaign funded by the broadband industry submitted millions of fake comments supporting the 2017 repeal of net neutrality.

The Federal Communications Commission’s contentious 2017 repeal undid Obama-era rules that barred internet service providers from slowing or blocking websites and apps or charging companies more for faster speeds to consumers. The industry had sued to stop these rules during the Obama administration but lost.

The proceeding generated a record-breaking number of comments — more than 22 million — and nearly 18 million were fake, the attorney general’s office found. It has long been known that the tally included fake comments.

One 19-year-old in California submitted more than 7.7 million pro-net neutrality comments. The attorney general’s office did not identify the origins of another “distinct group” of more than 1.6 million pro-net neutrality comments, many of which used mailing addresses outside the U.S.

A broadband industry group, called Broadband for America, spent $4.2 million generating more than 8.5 million of the fake FCC comments. Half a million fake letters were also sent to Congress.

The goal of the broadband industry campaign, according to internal documents the attorney general’s office received, was to make it seem like there was “widespread grassroots support” for the repeal of net neutrality that could give the FCC chairman at the time, Ajit Pai, “volume and intellectual cover” for the repeal.

The agency is supposed to use the comments it receives, from industry and public-industry groups and the public, to shape how it makes its rules.

The FCC did not immediately answer how or if it has changed its commenting process, but the acting chairwoman, Jessica Rosenworcel, said in a prepared statement that “widespread problems with the record” of the 2017 proceedings “was troubling at the time” and the agency has to learn and improve the commenting process.

The fake comments had high-profile victims. In 2018, two senators, Democrat Jeff Merkley of Oregon and Republican Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania, said their identities were stolen to file fake comments for the net neutrality proceeding. “We were among those whose identities were misused to express viewpoints we do not hold,” they wrote to the FCC’s then-chairman, Pai, asking him to investigate the fake comments.

Many expect the FCC to try to reinstate net neutrality rules once a third Democratic commissioner is appointed. The agency is currently split half Democrat and Republican, which makes undoing the repeal unlikely.

Broadband for America’s website says its members include AT&T and Comcast as well as major trade groups for the wireless, cable and telecom industries.

The campaign hired companies known as lead generators which created the fake comments, but that the attorney general’s office had not found evidence that the broadband companies had “direct knowledge of fraud” and thus they had not violated New York law, according to the report.

What a fucking shock that the comments that A Shit Pie pointed to to justify the repeal of Net Neutrality were all fucking astroturfed by FUCKING AT&T AND COMCAST

Edited by Captainant
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Longhorn_Fan68

Longhorn_Fan68 33843

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13 minutes ago, Captainant said:

bump. Also filed under "no shit"

AP News: NY: Broadband cos paid for 8.5M fake net neutrality comments

What a fucking shock that the comments that A Shit Pie pointed to to justify the repeal of Net Neutrality were all fucking astroturfed by FUCKING AT&T AND COMCAST

you mean the previous admin was less than forthright with us? come on, man, you sure about that? sounds like some double-secret fake news to me.

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Captainant

Captainant 27467

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Fuck AT&T for being a shitheel company, but I've actually been pleased with their fiber service. $70/mo for symmetrical gigabit without data caps, and I've averaged 6+TB of data across my gateway for the last 6 months since setting up my home media server that friends and family use. Streaming 4k HDR content from under my desk is pretty wild

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elfenix

elfenix 34172

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Posted

the availability of VZW mm band 5G and at&t fiber in the neighborhood seems to have dropped the comcast price in my hood, so even though i can't get either of the first two specifically where i am, i'm now paying $86.11 for 600 Mbps unlimited, which is less than what i was paying for 150Mbps capped previously. 

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11360

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14 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Fuck AT&T for being a shitheel company, but I've actually been pleased with their fiber service. $70/mo for symmetrical gigabit without data caps, and I've averaged 6+TB of data across my gateway for the last 6 months since setting up my home media server that friends and family use. Streaming 4k HDR content from under my desk is pretty wild

yeah, i've been pretty happy too. need to set up that home media server though.

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kevwun

kevwun 15653

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That's AT&T when they have competition.  We have a location that has a 10/10 fiber connection with 4 or 5 phone lines that AT&T charges $600 a month for because they are the only game in town there.

Edited by kevwun
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Captainant

Captainant 27467

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Posted
Just now, hayden_horn said:

yeah, i've been pretty happy too. need to set up that home media server though.

Synology ds920+ is a surprisingly capable little plex box. And if you spring for the plex pass, you can even use the iGPU on the celeron to do hardware encoding. Took a few days of fucking with it to get the whole request->search->download->index->host pipeline working, but now I have container images all ready to go so I just use synologys container orchestration to start itself up and and automatically heal if there's a power blip.

...

I should probably get a UPS though lol

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89450

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31 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Synology ds920+ is a surprisingly capable little plex box. And if you spring for the plex pass, you can even use the iGPU on the celeron to do hardware encoding. Took a few days of fucking with it to get the whole request->search->download->index->host pipeline working, but now I have container images all ready to go so I just use synologys container orchestration to start itself up and and automatically heal if there's a power blip.

...

I should probably get a UPS though lol

You should.  I would not run a NAS without a UPS at this point, especially Synology, assuming you are running BTRFS.

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28713

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Posted
1 hour ago, elfenix said:

molly wood has a 3 part interview with the new FCC acting chair this week on marketplace tech:

https://www.marketplace.org/shows/marketplace-tech/

There was a young lady who went by the name of Molly Wood back in 1999 and appeared in three porn films when she was 18. I’ve seen two of them. I first heard about her when a friend told me about seeing her on Phil Donahue or some similar show. Apparently she said she regretted it. I got right to work seeking her out. I’d recommend Real Sex Magazine 21. She was a total amateur but had a rockin’ bod. I’ll never hear that name without thinking of her.

image.png.55d3742d34f36dfc0a66684bb253acb7.png

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