Gun Control Proposals Poll

[Brian Fantana 6690]

20 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Just when you think nothing more idiotic can be typed out....then there's this....

Nice, well thought out rebuttal you fucking mouth breather.

[Brian Fantana 6690]

22 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

4473 forms are stored locally unless the FFL goes out of business at which point they are transferred to the ATF.  Shop closings aren't actually rare events.  The ATF itself now has 285 million records because of this.  https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/wdbd9y/the-atfs-nonsensical-non-searchable-gun-databases-explained-392

Also, there is a separate NICS database.  Its truly foolish of y'all to believe that a future gov't couldn't illegally (or legally) put all this info together and use it against you.  They already have what they need to round up guns if they really want to.  They don't want to though.  All y'all have done is make it difficult to identify would-be school shooters.  You've done nothing to minimize the gun-grab if the gov't ever wants to do it.  And if they really wanted to be clever, they could also crawl social media and public forums like this one to identify gun owners.  Posting on the shaggy gun porn thread is worse than a 4473 as far as your privacy goes.  Posting gun porn on facebook is even worse than that.

There's really not much additional harm in having real registration.  If the gun grab ever comes, you can fight it then.  You'll have as much success as David Koresh did in any case.  Right now, though, Parkland blood is on your hands because you refuse to meet in the middle. The middle is registration.

Can we not do this? Blaming each other for shit like this will not get us anywhere. It's not gun owners' fault. The fault lies with Washington.

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

15 minutes ago, SmokeyBear1861 said:

LOL, this is cute.  If the govt really wanted to take over your little hut and rape your wife/children, they would have ZERO trouble doing so.  You think that cute thing is gonna help you?  I guess it's a good way to make sure you take out the fam and yourself before the buttfucking begins in earnest. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

14 minutes ago, SmokeyBear1861 said:

Militias won't be populated with nutjobs if the government threatens a gun grab. 

It will be literally populated with ex-military. You must live in a fucking bubble.

HIs faggoty NYC poetry reading club has no such types!

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 minute ago, BabaYaga said:

You do realize you are antagonizing a citizenry covering an expanse the likes of which previous guerrilla conflicts could  never hope to cover effectively.  Almost 4 million square miles.  With millions of previously served combat veterans armed with what is estimated to be 400 Millions weapons.  Hundreds of millions of magazines.  Close to FIVE trillions rounds of ammunition.  And that is right now.  Today.  Nevermind two borders, north and south that are laughably monitored.  Just stop.  

Again, you simply aren't unified. It doesn't matter at all how much small arms ammunition exists when you're dealing with tanks, missiles, and airplanes.  Furthermore, it also doesn't matter because you are going to sit there and watch your neighbor get taken down without doing anything because you and your neighbor don't share the same ideals about what "America" even means.

The citizenry being antagonized would splinter into more factions than Syria.  The South, Texas, Northeast, and West Coast already want to go their separate ways.  A fucking insurgency or whatever will make that happen real quick.

And guess what?  If there is some oppressive US force trying to hold it all together, you'd be rolling with the military, not fighting against it, because the only way any of this shit ever happens is if the gov't starts rounding up gays, non-Christians, and minorities.  

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

HIs faggoty NYC poetry reading club has no such types!

Wow, faggoty?   Really?  

 

Cool!

[FondrenRoad 4378]

5 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

HIs faggoty NYC poetry reading club has no such types!

Lol.  You go jogging with a gun because you're terrified all the time.  You aren't going to be fighting for shit, pussy.  And you represent a large portion of gun owners who peep out the window terrified of everyone who walks by. None of y'all are going to fight for anyone or anything nor are you going to join up with anyone to fight.  You are the guy who hides behind Hitler, not the one who stands up to him.

Edited April 5, 2018 by FondrenRoad

[Brian Fantana 6690]

4 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

HIs faggoty NYC poetry reading club has no such types!

Lmao look at this scared fucking pussy rearing his head

[Johnny Sack 8397]

3 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Lol.  You go jogging with a gun because you're terrified all the time.  You aren't going to be fighting for shit, pussy.  And you represent a large portion of gun owners who peep out the window terrified of everyone who walks by. None of y'all are going to fight for anyone or anything nor are you going to join up with anyone to fight.  You are the guy who hides behind Hitler, not the one who stands up to him.

Not really.  And certainly am not scared of some emasculated pussy like you.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

9 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Can we not do this? Blaming each other for shit like this will not get us anywhere. It's not gun owners' fault. The fault lies with Washington.

Its not every gun owner's fault.  Those who fight against registration share blame, however.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

Just now, Johnny Sack said:

Not really.  And certainly am not scared of some emasculated pussy like you.

Sure you are.  That's why you go jogging with a gun.  Because you're afraid of everyone.  You might be the biggest fucking pussy in the whole country.  How many males do you think go jogging with a gun?

[Anastasis 23485]

4 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

I agree.  It would be interesting to see what's what.  And even though they could do it in a month or two if they wanted to, they don't/can't do it because of the gun lobby.

There is nothing preventing the BATF from inventorying the paperwork they are storing in storage containers, which would address my query. They are prohibited from centralizing searchable records in data base systems. 

Of course, the real question is whether this is a good use of there time or resources.  I would suggest that the BATF, FBI, and DOJs time would be better spent investigating and prosecuting people who falsify 4473 forms and commit federal felonies.  Here is the OIG report on the issue. 1.2MM potential prosecutions passed on. 

 

https://oig.justice.gov/reports/2016/a1632.pdf#page=1

 

[Bat Guano 359]

3 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Sure you are.  That's why you go jogging with a gun.  Because you're afraid of everyone.  You might be the biggest fucking pussy in the whole country.  How many males do you think go jogging with a gun?

Well, there's this paragon of masculinity:

Oh, wait....

Edited April 5, 2018 by Bat Guano

[DanTheHorn 4966]

1 hour ago, SmokeyBear1861 said:

Agreed, but you gonna need to define "similar rifles" to people who aren't familiar with guns. They think AR15 = M16 because they look similar.

Well is this OK? I am sure lots of folks are going to disagree on some of them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assault_rifles

[DanTheHorn 4966]

Dreaded Double Post

Edited April 5, 2018 by DanTheHorn

[Johnny Sack 8397]

3 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Sure you are.  That's why you go jogging with a gun.  Because you're afraid of everyone.  You might be the biggest fucking pussy in the whole country.  How many males do you think go jogging with a gun?

 I've only carried if I am running at a park at night.  Just good sense.  I am going to Memorial now to run a couple laps.  Not one bit afraid.  And certainly would not be afraid of some old low T pussy like you.

[Brian Fantana 6690]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

 I've only carried if I am running at a park at night.  Just good sense.  I am going to Memorial now to run a couple laps.  Not one bit afraid.  And certainly would not be afraid of some old low T pussy like you.

Your aggy ass would shit your pants if you ever were face to face with someone that's not some dipshit redneck fake tough guy like yourself.

[BabaYaga 15320]

25 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

I didn't dodge it. I didn't respond to it because it's a pathetic and stupid analogy.

45 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Yeah, you're right.  The second A is disqualified because it was written in the times of "muskets" and "guys on horses", but the first A doesn't apply to any other mediums or advancements.  Congratulations.  You are an idiot...

[Johnny Sack 8397]

7 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Your aggy ass would shit your pants if you ever were face to face with someone that's not some dipshit redneck fake tough guy like yourself.

You’re projecting your own weakness. Guarantee this cuck wears a pussy hat. 

Edited April 5, 2018 by Johnny Sack

[Brian Fantana 6690]

3 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Yeah, you're right.  The second A is disqualified because it was written in the times of "muskets" and "guys on horses", but the first A doesn't apply to any other mediums or advancements.  Congratulations.  You are an idiot...

 

Idiot.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

5 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

 I've only carried if I am running at a park at night.  Just good sense.  I am going to Memorial now to run a couple laps.  Not one bit afraid.  And certainly would not be afraid of some old low T pussy like you.

Aww, look the little bitch is trying to pretend to be tough and go running without his security blanket.  And lol at low T.  You're projecting.  Better make sure you have your Viagra prescription refilled if your wife wants to fuck tonight.

[BabaYaga 15320]

20 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Again, you simply aren't unified

Start going door to door and threatening citizens with military pressure.  There are few things that would galvanize millions upon millions of absurdly armed citizens across and expanse of 4 millions miles. 

And tanks/planes, again just stop.  Our tanks and planes aren't doing squat against a citizenry that can blend back into the local population at a moments notice.  We've seen time and time again how ineffective brute force can be against guerrilla forces.  And you still aren't considering whether the military, who associate the most with the citizens they are being told to target - would carry out their orders?

[BabaYaga 15320]

17 minutes ago, Bat Guano said:

You might be the biggest fucking pussy in the whole country.

Such a tough guy

[David Dennison 18946]

22 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Not really.  And certainly am not scared of some emasculated pussy like you.

But you are scared of a lot. That much is obvious.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

3 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Start going door to door and threatening citizens with military pressure.  There are few things that would galvanize millions upon millions of absurdly armed citizens across and expanse of 4 millions miles. 

And tanks/planes, again just stop.  Our tanks and planes aren't doing squat against a citizenry that can blend back into the local population at a moments notice.  We've seen time and time again how ineffective brute force can be against guerrilla forces.  And you still aren't considering whether the military, who associate the most with the citizens they are being told to target - would carry out their orders?

I agree the military is never going to carry out those orders and that it is never going to happen.  You're the one who is saying you're going to organize with a bunch of other individual self-defenders to fight a threat that you agree is non-existent.  So tell me again why you are terrified of registration?  Or even an actual gun grab for that matter?  So now that we agree you will never have to defend against this tyranny you are afraid of, why not try to prevent something like Parkland which actually occurs?

Edited April 5, 2018 by FondrenRoad

[Brian Fantana 6690]

3 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Start going door to door and threatening citizens with military pressure.  There are few things that would galvanize millions upon millions of absurdly armed citizens across and expanse of 4 millions miles. 

And tanks/planes, again just stop.  Our tanks and planes aren't doing squat against a citizenry that can blend back into the local population at a moments notice.  We've seen time and time again how ineffective brute force can be against guerrilla forces.  And you still aren't considering whether the military, who associate the most with the citizens they are being told to target - would carry out their orders?

Do you ever get tired of using pussy fucking scare tactics to try and distract everyone else from having a constructive argument about gun control?

I guess you got me today. Congrats.

[BabaYaga 15320]

7 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

 

Idiot.

Such a pleasure to see such a sharp mind at work. 

OK, I'll type this as slowly as I can.  You lead with a bullshit straw-man that the left has been trotting out for years now about the 2nd and muskets.  So I countered with an equally absurd straw-man about the efficacy of the first A.  Then you countered back about the absurdity of this straw-man argument.

Like I said, it truly is a pleasure...

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 minute ago, Brian Fantana said:

Do you ever get tired of using pussy fucking scare tactics to try and distract everyone else from having a constructive argument about gun control?

I guess you got me today. Congrats.

No, they need guns to fight against an oppressive gov't even though gov't forces are never going to oppress them.

[BabaYaga 15320]

3 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

I agree the military is never going to carry out those orders and that it is never going to happen.  You're the one who is saying you're going to organize with a bunch of other individual self-defenders to fight a threat that you agree is non-existent.  So tell me again why you are terrified of registration?  Or even an actual gun grab for that matter?  So now that we agree you will never have to defend against this tyranny you are afraid of, why not try to prevent something like Parkland which actually occurs?

We call this a false dichotomy in the real world.  Welcome, can I get you a cup of coffee?

[Bat Guano 359]

12 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Start going door to door and threatening citizens with military pressure.  There are few things that would galvanize millions upon millions of absurdly armed citizens across and expanse of 4 millions miles. 

And tanks/planes, again just stop.  Our tanks and planes aren't doing squat against a citizenry that can blend back into the local population at a moments notice.  We've seen time and time again how ineffective brute force can be against guerrilla forces.  And you still aren't considering whether the military, who associate the most with the citizens they are being told to target - would carry out their orders?

Pro tip: American English speakers don't use the plural marker on the million or trillion in specific numbers like 4 million, or 5 trillion. Feel free to pass this info along to your handlers, so your countrymen can better learn to pass as Americans.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Bat Guano

[bernorange 8363]

Well, civil discourse took a nose dive in this thread.  Good job peeps.  Very illuminating.

[Brian Fantana 6690]

7 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Such a pleasure to see such a sharp mind at work. 

OK, I'll type this as slowly as I can.  You lead with a bullshit straw-man that the left has been trotting out for years now about the 2nd and muskets.  So I countered with an equally absurd straw-man about the efficacy of the first A.  Then you countered back about the absurdity of this straw-man argument.

Like I said, it truly is a pleasure...

The problem is you actually believe that I the reason I said that was to "disqualify the 2nd amendment". Since I don't believe it's possible for anyone to actually be that stupid, I can only conclude you're actually a snake trying to divert the discussion away from any constructive discussion of gun control, which was my original assessment anyway. You're now welcome to fuck off, because I'm not engaging in any of your hysteria anymore.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Brian Fantana

[Brian Fantana 6690]

Just now, bernorange said:

Well, civil discourse took a nose dive in this thread.  Good job peeps.  Very illuminating.

I would love to divert the discussion back to what it should be.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

7 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

We call this a false dichotomy in the real world.  Welcome, can I get you a cup of coffee?

No, its just that your argument is complete horseshit.  Let's look at possible scenarios.

1) Military would never attack.  (I agree. You don't need guns to defend against it then)

2) If they attack, they will use all the weapons at their disposal.  (How are you going to prevent a drone from bombing your house in this scenario?  Also, at least some portion of the citizenry is going to support this gov't, so what do you do about them?  That's your real fight there.  You're ISIS and they're Assad/Kurds/etc.  Guns everywhere only make this complete disintegration more likely.)

3) This hypothetical situation you believe can occur where an evil gov't is coming in using only small arms against your heroic, just, and unified community simply doesn't happen.  

So again, tell me what you need your guns to defend against when you've already dismissed the single event you claimed you needed them for.  And yes, I'll take that coffee.

Edited April 5, 2018 by FondrenRoad

[FondrenRoad 4378]

33 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

There is nothing preventing the BATF from inventorying the paperwork they are storing in storage containers, which would address my query. They are prohibited from centralizing searchable records in data base systems. 

Of course, the real question is whether this is a good use of there time or resources.  I would suggest that the BATF, FBI, and DOJs time would be better spent investigating and prosecuting people who falsify 4473 forms and commit federal felonies.  Here is the OIG report on the issue. 1.2MM potential prosecutions passed on. 

 

https://oig.justice.gov/reports/2016/a1632.pdf#page=1

 

They should certainly prosecute false 4473s.  My main point is that the gov't already has everything they need to put together a searchable database of gunowners.  The fact that they haven't should tell you something about their intentions.  There really is no additional harm that can come from allowing actual searchable registration.  You've already given them everything they need if they want to grab your guns.

[Brothahorn 10087]

14 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

No, they need guns to fight against an oppressive gov't even though gov't forces are never going to oppress them.

 

[BabaYaga 15320]

10 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

No, its just that your argument is complete horseshit.  Let's look at possible scenarios.

1) Military would never attack.  (I agree. You don't need guns to defend against it then)

2) If they attack, they will use all the weapons at their disposal.  (How are you going to prevent a drone from bombing your house in this scenario?  Also, at least some portion of the citizenry is going to support this gov't, so what do you do about them?  That's your real fight there.  You're ISIS and they're Assad/Kurds/etc.  Guns everywhere only make this complete disintegration more likely.)

3) This hypothetical situation you believe can occur where an evil gov't is coming in using only small arms against your heroic, just, and unified community simply doesn't happen.  

So again, tell me what you need your guns to defend against when you've already dismissed the single event you claimed you needed them for.  And yes, I'll take that coffee.

This is absurd.  They won't attack...maybe, but if they do, you're 100% going to wiped out with all this modern technology that so far isn't doing shit for an even more underfunded and underarmed citizen army thousands of miles away fighting in their own backyard and their own territory, which is, oh....exactly like it would be here, only a few million miles larger area to cover.  No problem...so....let's register those guns and get that Parkland blood off your hands.  Jesus Christ.  Just a brilliant stream of logic here.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

2 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

 

You see how that kid is alive?  You think he'd be alive if he was armed?  You think Johnny Sack is going to join with you or defend you?  If he comes out of his house at all, it will be to try to wipe you out.  That's my point about US gunowners.  You won't be a unified insurgency.  In Houston, you and Johnny Sack will be at war with one another while the gov't tries to restore order through violence.  The police in your pictures are doing that with Johnny Sack's support.

[BabaYaga 15320]

Just now, FondrenRoad said:

You won't be a unified insurgency

Start going door to door and killing citizens who fail to comply.  It sure as shit soon will be.  

[Brian Fantana 6690]

50 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

There is nothing preventing the BATF from inventorying the paperwork they are storing in storage containers, which would address my query. They are prohibited from centralizing searchable records in data base systems. 

Of course, the real question is whether this is a good use of there time or resources.  I would suggest that the BATF, FBI, and DOJs time would be better spent investigating and prosecuting people who falsify 4473 forms and commit federal felonies.  Here is the OIG report on the issue. 1.2MM potential prosecutions passed on. 

 

https://oig.justice.gov/reports/2016/a1632.pdf#page=1

 

I appreciate your attempts to keep the discussion away from crazyville. I regret taking a dive straight into it.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

Just now, BabaYaga said:

Start going door to door and killing citizens who fail to comply.  It sure as shit soon will be.  

It sure as shit wouldn't.  Police currently kill unarmed citizens with your blessing.  Now you're going to go defend someone who is armed?  

Also, if there's an actual round up, most gun owners are going to comply.  Perhaps you would let the police kill everyone in your house to save your precious AR-15, but most people love their family more than their guns.  Perhaps you would leave your family at home to join in your neighbor's shootout, but again, most people wouldn't.  Most people would think the neighbor should have either handed over his guns or hid them better.

[Brian Fantana 6690]

Just now, FondrenRoad said:

It sure as shit wouldn't.  Police currently kill unarmed citizens with your blessing.  Now you're going to go defend someone who is armed?  

Also, if there's an actual round up, most gun owners are going to comply.  Perhaps you would let the police kill everyone in your house to save your precious AR-15, but most people love their family more than their guns.  Perhaps you would leave your family at home to join in your neighbor's shootout, but again, most people wouldn't.  Most people would think the neighbor should have either handed over his guns or hid them better.

Stop engaging it and engage in real discussion about gun control please. You're just letting it lead you farther and farther down the rabbit hole.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 minute ago, Brian Fantana said:

Stop engaging it and engage in real discussion about gun control please. You're just letting it lead you farther and farther down the rabbit hole.

Deal.

[Brothahorn 10087]

14 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

You see how that kid is alive?  You think he'd be alive if he was armed?  You think Johnny Sack is going to join with you or defend you?  If he comes out of his house at all, it will be to try to wipe you out.  That's my point about US gunowners.  You won't be a unified insurgency.  In Houston, you and Johnny Sack will be at war with one another while the gov't tries to restore order through violence.  The police in your pictures are doing that with Johnny Sack's support.

Man, you are quick on the draw, I'll give you that.

I think maybe that cop would not have been so quick to 'oppress' the kid if he and his peers had been armed. It's a lot easier terrorize people when you know they won't shoot back. Ask the KKK.

http://nyupress.org/books/9780814725245/

And whether it's against Johnny or an out of control government entity, I'd still rather be able to defend me and mine.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Brothahorn

[bernorange 8363]

1 minute ago, Brothahorn said:

... It's a lot easier terrorize people when you know they won't shoot back. Ask the KKK.

The Bundy standoff comes to mind as an example where the Feds restrained themselves because the crowd was well armed.  This isn't a value judgement on the Bundy situation, just an observation that a well armed crowd got Government agents to talk to them instead of greenlighting the snipers to kill them (much to Mizzou415's dismay).

[FondrenRoad 4378]

18 minutes ago, bernorange said:

The Bundy standoff comes to mind as an example where the Feds restrained themselves because the crowd was well armed.  This isn't a value judgement on the Bundy situation, just an observation that a well armed crowd got Government agents to talk to them instead of greenlighting the snipers to kill them (much to Mizzou415's dismay).

The gov't doesn't kill protesters unless the gov't is wrong.  Bundy was in the wrong and he lost.  The gov't could have killed every single person in the Bundy crowd without taking a casualty of their own.  The optics of that simply suck.  The folks brother posted were in the right and eventually won.  There have been 100s of rallies and protests lately and nearly all are uneventful unless people get violent against LEOs first or people get violent with each other.

Its also worth noting that many of the Bundy folks are doing time now.  They didn't stop anything at all really.  But white criminals, armed or not, can usually stay alive and get arrested as long as they don't shoot.  LEOs don't kill unarmed PETA activists either, and they usually let them do their thing for a while before arresting them.

Historically, while unarmed African Americans don't fare great against LEOs, armed African Americans have an almost 0% success rate.

Edited April 5, 2018 by FondrenRoad

[DoobieWah 1459]

Two quick questions:

1) If an individual is "deplorable", should they be allowed to have a gun?

2) See what I did there?

[bernorange 8363]

5 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

The gov't doesn't kill protesters unless the gov't is wrong. ..

How very reassuring.

[wesleywest 63]

6 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Can you provide some links or additional details on this.  My understanding is that 4473 forms are stored locally at the FFL and only under very rare situations are they transferred to BATF.

I have an FFL/SOT and deal in Class 3, NFA, Machine Guns, etc.  When it comes to regular non-NFA weapons, Uncle Sam has no idea who owns what and doesn’t care.  It’s my responsibility to keep a record, and in the event that a gun is used in a crime, the ATF will trace the s/n.  Other than that, there is no “database”.

 

[JBJ 3665]

I didn't vote for CDC, but would encourage gun crime statistics being collected.  The reason being that the CDC definitions do not match criminal/common definitions.  It is not only used to misrepresent information at times, it inherently decreases the reliability of gun crime studies by introducing static.

Voted for "red flags" with the understanding that it is close to or includes GVROs.

NICS needs repair.  Needs broader range, but I would still allow for gifts to immediate family members or allow for the gifter and giftee to be processed on one fee.  Would not hate licensing to replace NICS.