Call your shot: impeachment between now and the election

[TexArcher 37,508]

Curious what the consensus is.  I've long been in the camp that he should be impeached, for multiple reasons, but since the Republican Senate won't convict, it could do more harm than good and might even help him get re-elected.

But if he actually bribed a foreign ally to go hunting for dirt on a political opponent, then history must show that he was impeached, come what may.  And I think he will be.

Edit: And I think there might even be enough Republicans with a sense of history and love of country to do the right thing and vote to remove.  But this may be wishful thinking.

Edited September 24, 2019 by TexArcher

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

I have no idea.

Worst case scenario is allowing him to run in 2020 without being impeached. 

Edited September 24, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[tantric superman 4,667]

Move to impeach and immediately admit it's pointless because of gutless Republicans. 

Get it over with as soon as you can.

 

[sachick 1,189]

Edit: And I think there might even be enough Republicans with a sense of history and love of country to do the right thing and vote to remove.  But this may be wishful thinking.

Bless your heart.

[SimonBolivar 10,915]

6 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

Move to impeach and immediately admit it's pointless because of gutless Republicans. 

Get it over with as soon as you can.

 

Bingo. Pressure is building and will all but require Dems to impeach, but it won't matter.

Edited September 24, 2019 by SimonBolivar

[Continental Op 3,934]

1. Not impeached. 2. Gets reelected. 

Edited September 24, 2019 by Continental Op

[Bama Chick 28,596]

Republicans don’t even know right from wrong any longer.

To hope on the Republicans in the Senate under the iron claw of Moscow Mitch is futile.

I do think that something shifted this weekend/today.

The House takes a break for “District Work” on 9/30 and reconvene on October 15th; think the House will vote on articles of impeachment during the session between 10/15 and whenever they break again in November/Thanksgiving (they haven’t published any calendar beyond October).

They’ll use rules and procedures to delay the actual trial before the Senate until after Christmas, just in time to get us to the real ramp up to the 2020 election.

[cactusflinthead 27,594]

We're so far into crazyville that I don't know what to expect. There's ample opportunity to impeach him, but I don't know if there's the will to do it. Unless there are the votes in the Senate it's not going to make a damn bit of difference. 

So impeach if you want to, get a line of obstruction and obfuscation and....

We're still stuck with him until he gets voted out.

[Loch Ness Monster 3,533]

Republicans in the Senate need to go on record as being gutless cowards.

[TexArcher 37,508]

9 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

Move to impeach and immediately admit it's pointless because of gutless Republicans. 

Get it over with as soon as you can.

 

So you're saying the House moves to impeach then cancels it before there's a vote?

Part of me likes this and part of me wants to force the Republican Sentators to choose to back this train wreck in the historical record, with votes cast, to chronicle their shame forever, instead of this tacit approval bullshit they've gotten away with for almost three years.

Maybe the weight of it would give a few of them pause.  Maybe Mitt Romney and others could put together enough of a coalition.  Maybe?

[tantric superman 4,667]

1 minute ago, TexArcher said:

So you're saying the House moves to impeach then cancels it before there's a vote?

No, get to the vote as soon as you can and have everyone on record.

[suddenly shaggy 929]

He's not resigning, he'll be in a jail in New York shortly after. I have no idea what Pelosi and co will actually do, but the correct answer is...

1) Put the Senate's shit on blast. Go on the offensive and control the message. Repeatedly say that no crime is high enough for the Senate, because of their corruption, but Democrats will do their constitutional duty regardless. 

2) Assemble every impeachable offense into a single cohesive narrative.  

3) Give Trump and the Senate death by 1000 cuts through weeks-months of hearings. Turn over every stone, sequentially, in public and show us all the slime underneath it. Do this until the GOP cries uncle, or the public demand to remove him is utterly overwhelming. 

It would put real pressure on the Senate to end it all, as the hearing goes on and it looks worse and worse for them. 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2019 by suddenly shaggy
Voted impeached, but not removed, because the Dems are like herding cats and will not be able to paint the Senate as the DJT cult worshipping pieces of shit they are.

[Bama Chick 28,596]

Seriously, stop hoping for Republicans to do the right thing.

They’re all complicit and they are trumpkins first, Republicans second, money grubbing grifters above all.

If one single Republican in the house (Amash doesn’t count as he actually GTFO) votes yes on impeachment or one single Republican in the Senate votes to convict I’ll eat a MAGA hat.

The Republican Party is a criminal organization and Trump is the mob boss.

They will not save us.

[lemonlime 5,503]

Fuck if I know.  

But if have to call shots now.  Pence resigns and Trump appoints Don Jr. as veep.  Trump then resigns for health reasons/dementia.  Don Jr. runs in 2020 on how mean the lamestream media was to his poor, martyred father whose health was destroyed by the fake news enemy of the people.  We get at least 8 more years of Don Jr., shaking down the taxpayers and funneling money into his businesses, and by 2028 there'll be nothing left of the Constitution.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

This is just so Pelosi...

 

[suddenly shaggy 929]

4 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

Fuck if I know.  

But if have to call shots now.  Pence resigns and Trump appoints Don Jr. as veep.  Trump then resigns for health reasons/dementia.  Don Jr. runs in 2020 on how mean the lamestream media was to his poor, martyred father whose health was destroyed by the fake news enemy of the people.  We get at least 8 more years of Don Jr., shaking down the taxpayers and funneling money into his businesses, and by 2028 there'll be nothing left of the Constitution.

It'd be Ivanka way before Jr. Fuck this timeline and the fact that this is even a serious point of discussion. 

[Continental Op 3,934]

21 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Republicans don’t even know right from wrong any longer.
 

It's not that they don't know.  It's just that they don't care.  This is everything the Republican Party has wanted to be dating back to the Southern Strategy. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

The GOP is going to protect the GOP in the end.  The question is at what point does Trump become more of a political liability than asset to them.  

The way I see it, Trump will inevitably be the fall guy for all of the Republican Party’s treachery during this era. 

[BLKNSTY 289]

not impeached and re-elected.

[lemonlime 5,503]

12 minutes ago, suddenly shaggy said:

It'd be Ivanka way before Jr. Fuck this timeline and the fact that this is even a serious point of discussion. 

Maybe.  But I doubt that whoever is controlling them (and all the trumps are way too stupid to not be puppets), would put a woman in charge.   They get off on the sexism and bigotry in general.

I don't think I've heard a coherent sentence from Trump in over a year.  I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him resign due to dementia. But I'm still fully out on Brisket's ledge.  A trump resignation just means that someone not as stupid, but just as awful, will take over.

[SimonBolivar 10,915]

6 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

A trump resignation just means that someone not as stupid, but just as awful, will take over.

[Bama Chick 28,596]

I mean, Republican Senators knew this was going on and “challenged” it but did jack shit.

FFS, John Bolton and His Mustache of Doom was the voice of reason on this. That’s how ridiculous this is.

[Spankytoes 1,736]

57 minutes ago, Continental Op said:

1. Not impeached. 2. Gets reelected. 

This. Not sure why people expect otherwise.

[Degenerate Gardner 4,081]

Dem pols have to answer to Dem voters every four years.  As we draw closer to 2020 elections, I sense the personal calculus is shifting.  The cost of inaction for incumbent Dems is starting to surpass the risk of action and potential misstep.  Good luck generating excitement about your campaign if Trump remains effectively unopposed.  Dems have no choice but to impeach,.  It may not evict Trump before Nov 2030, but this aggression cannot stand, man.

[Bama Chick 28,596]

[seven 1,366]

5 minutes ago, Degenerate Gardner said:

Dem pols have to answer to Dem voters every four years.  As we draw closer to 2020 elections, I sense the personal calculus is shifting.  The cost of inaction for incumbent Dems is starting to surpass the risk of action and potential misstep.  Good luck generating excitement about your campaign if Trump remains effectively unopposed.  Dems have no choice but to impeach,.  It may not evict Trump before Nov 2030, but this aggression cannot stand, man.

Yup, I don't think I can support anyone that doesn't take a stand. I've never been a primary voter, but I will actively try to defeat any democrat that just sits back and lets this shit continue. 

[TDunk 590]

If only Caitlyn Jenner was the madam Speaker of the House.  At least she has some balls.  

Edited September 24, 2019 by TDunk

[BLKNSTY 289]

Dem pols have to answer to Dem voters every four years.  As we draw closer to 2020 elections, I sense the personal calculus is shifting.  The cost of inaction for incumbent Dems is starting to surpass the risk of action and potential misstep.  Good luck generating excitement about your campaign if Trump remains effectively unopposed.  Dems have no choice but to impeach,.  It may not evict Trump before Nov 2030, but this aggression cannot stand, man.

Elizabeth Warren is the single greatest candidate the modern-left has ever ever put up for President and based on her policy positions, the most liberal if elected.

If nominated, and I think she will win the nomination, I no doubt believe her get out the vote push will be record breaking as well.

he’s going to win tho. because nothing fucking matters.

[triplehorn 2,664]

Impeached and doesn’t make it to Nov 2020.  Resignation, conviction, or death - one of those.  Nature and severity of newly revealed crimes will bring our country to a halt.  

[RayDog 682]

2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I have no idea.

Worst case scenario is allowing him to run in 2020 without being impeached. 

That is the best case scenario.

The best way to GOTV is to have Trump on the ballot. Impeaching Trump will increase Republican voter enthusiasm, equalizing the vote making it more likely that he wins and Republicans retain control of the senate.

The worst case for Democrats is if Trump is removed from office or resigns, as that will suppress Democratic turnout while Republican turnout will be high, especially if he is removed from office. 

The best thing to do is keep exposing his wrongdoing, but don't impeach him, don't impeach Kavanaugh or anyone else in the administration, don' talk about packing the court, or do other things that will obviously cause Republican turnout to spike. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

12 minutes ago, RayDog said:

That is the best case scenario.

The best way to GOTV is to have Trump on the ballot.

I’ve long argued this was Pelosi’s plan all along.  

However, there’s a greater risk to not impeaching now.  He’s already corrupted the 2020 election process via the power of the presidency.  

There is nothing that is going to stop Trump from burning the whole government down to retain power unless the democrats take a stand now.  

Removing Trump might cost some seats but it could also win some too, it’s a gamble.  Bottom line is there’s a greater risk to the country by not impeaching.  Not impeaching is textbook “how democracies die” and Trump is most certainly trying to kill ours.

Edited September 24, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Jack Straw 2,953]

what should happen: impeached, removed, executed for treason.

what will happen: not impeached, re-elected with foreign interference in an illegitimate election, no one does anything about it. 

is there anyone here (or on the planet) who actually believes there will be an honest and legitimate election process? seriously? 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

2 minutes ago, Jack Straw said:

is there anyone here (or on the planet) who actually believes there will be an honest and legitimate election process? seriously? 

Dirty tricks are kinda part of the process now, so not really.

but I think everyone should still vote.  

[CooterBrown 17,905]

Nah. Trump loses the election. He doesn’t relinquish the office. Dems roll over and don’t do shit. Hola, Fidel Trump.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,411]

Impeach -yes.  Convict -no.   Loses election and moves to a country that won’t extradite him to the US.  

[Eastwood 4,394]

He gets impeach but not convicted. I think he still loses the 2020 election, though. I think the political upheaval is just beginning, though, whether he wins or loses. We're beyond repair, as a society. Ds and Rs have become that couple who cannot interact with each other in a positive fashion under any circumstances and divorce is the only option.

[Jack Straw 2,953]

6 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

but I think everyone should still vote.  

sure, I do too.  I think that the more people that get out and vote against Trump, the better the chances of revolt when he he is “re-elected” following an obviously illegitimate election.  those chances will be slim regardless, but still. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,411]

2 chances to remove trump: election or impeachment. Election is the best option even though he will declare that 25m illegal immigrants voted. It won’t matter, he’ll be gone.  

If trump wins, and the Dems retain the House, they can investigate and impeach on their timeline.

dem nightmare: don’t impeach now, lose the House and Trump wins. This would only give them the short lame duck window to impeach.  As it would lead to nothing, probably not worth it.  Then look ahead to 2022 to try again by winning back the House.

[Pig Bellmont 8,691]

This country needs to see a trial in the Senate and then every GOP coward affirmatively vote against their sworn duty to uphold the constitution

[Pig Bellmont 8,691]

44 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Loses election and moves to a country that won’t extradite him to the US.

[WhatTheBuck 28,710]

9 hours ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Republicans in the Senate need to go on record as being gutless cowards.

This. Future generations need to know their names and how they betrayed their country. Let that be their legacy and a permanent stain on the Republican Party. 

[Bateshorn 9,898]

9 hours ago, tantric superman said:

Move to impeach and immediately admit it's pointless because of gutless Republicans. 

Get it over with as soon as you can.

 

Este.

The House needs the additional tools impeachment gives as a constitutional force to ask for immediate relief from the courts. McConnell is evil and craven enough to set up a process that resolves the impeachment in less than a week.

[Js1 85,104]

19 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

2 chances to remove trump: election or impeachment. Election is the best option even though he will declare that 25m illegal immigrants voted. It won’t matter, he’ll be gone.  

If trump wins, and the Dems retain the House, they can investigate and impeach on their timeline.

dem nightmare: don’t impeach now, lose the House and Trump wins. This would only give them the short lame duck window to impeach.  As it would lead to nothing, probably not worth it.  Then look ahead to 2022 to try again by winning back the House.

Luckily the nightmare scenario is highly unlikely.  The House hasn't flipped in back to back election cycles since '54 and hasn't flipped from one party to another during a presidential cycle since '52. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

4 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Luckily the nightmare scenario is highly unlikely.

We are in the nightmare scenario 

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3,861]

Trump is great for GOTV for Dems. He’s not going anywhere.  

[High Plains Drifter 10,975]

 

10 hours ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Republicans in the Senate need to go on record as being gutless cowards.

 

History needs a record who did the right thing, and who put party over country. Even if those history books are just being used to warm our caves.

 

 

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Impeach -yes.  Convict -no.   Loses election and moves to a country that won’t extradite him to the US.  

 

What country would actually take him? Disgraced, broke, bad health? No upside to protecting the most unpopular president in history.

[fattyflattie 4,636]

I think he wins another term. 

[Beantown Express 2.0 6,554]

Can someone explain to me the concern for impeaching causing the R's to GOTV better?  I think they will GOTV no matter what.  Even without an impeachment Trump will tweet about RBG's seat on the court, invasion of brown people via caravan, etc...in order to GOTV and the R's will line up to vote in masses.  The question Pelosi should be figuring out is how do we GOTV best for the Dems.  It seems like the Democrats are playing this like a football coach with a 6 point lead with two minutes left and deciding to play a prevent defense allowing the other team to march down the field and score the winning TD.  The only way they can win this is to vote to impeach, let McConnell say he won't bring a vote to the Senate for some insane reason and then control the narrative by spending the next year running ads, talking on TV about the criminal in the White House.  It may not work because this country is made up of idiot voters but sitting back and not thinking Trump won't get his base to vote using some kind of made up lie is crazy.

[fattyflattie 4,636]

2 minutes ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

but sitting back and not thinking Trump won't get his base to vote using some kind of made up lie is crazy.

I agree 100%. 
 

The R GOTV is going to be strong. I live, work, and associate with lots of R’s.   People I haven’t ever discussed politics with, are now constantly looking for a discussion. The courts, Beto and his guns (will be HUGE in TX), and M4A. Keep in mind I don’t know of anyone who doesn’t like their plans (Im sure there are some) but I’m surrounded by “professional” couples who have good jobs.   

I vote the same way as many of these folks and it’s just tiring. 
 

I believe the only D that can win is Warren, and that she’ll have to come hard to the middle to pull it off. She’s definitely intelligent, hard working and determined.  That’s a bad thing if she falls on the other side of ANYTHING you care about.  I wish she was R. 

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3,861]

15 minutes ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

Can someone explain to me the concern for impeaching causing the R's to GOTV better?  I think they will GOTV no matter what.  Even without an impeachment Trump will tweet about RBG's seat on the court, invasion of brown people via caravan, etc...in order to GOTV and the R's will line up to vote in masses.  The question Pelosi should be figuring out is how do we GOTV best for the Dems.  It seems like the Democrats are playing this like a football coach with a 6 point lead with two minutes left and deciding to play a prevent defense allowing the other team to march down the field and score the winning TD.  The only way they can win this is to vote to impeach, let McConnell say he won't bring a vote to the Senate for some insane reason and then control the narrative by spending the next year running ads, talking on TV about the criminal in the White House.  It may not work because this country is made up of idiot voters but sitting back and not thinking Trump won't get his base to vote using some kind of made up lie is crazy.

That's all baseline R GOTV stuff.  No different than any other year.  In 2018, we saw huge blue GOTV and I believe it was a proxy vote against Trump.  This time, you will get an actual vote against Trump.  That's the GOTV math.