Van Halen Appreciation thread

[MirrOlure 15,283]

Thanks @Rimbo  Total fanboy here but haven't read a single book.  Looking forward to it.  One of my biggest regrets is that my 11 year old self was too much of a wuss to sneak out to the 1978 Van Halen concert at Fair Park in Beaumont after my parents of course said "no" when I asked if I could go....

[Macanudo 13,327]

 I have only read Monk's book.   It was such an interesting insight into the band.

[Rimbo 27,035]

3 hours ago, Macanudo said:

 I have only read Monk's book.   It was such an interesting insight into the band.

It really is. Templeman's is similarly interesting, but an entirely different perspective; the writer organizes the chapters better but has a much drier writing style. (Or maybe Ted's just a boring conversationalist.) Templeman's also covers a lot of things other than Van Halen.

Monk is also a lot more honest with himself than Ted. Ted really tries to skirt the impact of his drinking; you have to read between the lines to catch how devastating it was, and you can see him avoid the topic and the blame.

[ajax 2,677]

I saw this comment on YouTube on a video with Steve Vai talking about Eddie (basically praising him to the skies).

I want to hear those tracks if they really exist.

[dcar00 14,974]

On 2/11/2023 at 8:30 AM, Doc Daneeka said:

Fair Warning, in general, and Unchained, in particular, were peak Van Halen. Not saying there weren’t other good songs on other albums — have you seen Junior’s grades? — but the debut and Fair Warning stand far above everything else, especially the keyboard nonsense. Imo. 
 

Summer between junior and senior year of high school. Season tickets to Six Flags and all the high school girls that implies. Money to burn from a summer job. 455HO GTO. Looked old enough to buy beer with no issues. Maybe that skews my perception, but, damn, this album, though. 

Hear About it Later is the song that gives you all of VH in one song.  the opening, the swing, the heavy, the vocals/backing vocals, the lyrics, Eddie riffs, etc.  It is by no means their best song but it encompasses what VH was about better than any other song IMO.

[Wally Pryor 5,410]

In tune w/ the bump, Alex turned 71 yesterday.

Seventy fucking one.

[Rimbo 27,035]

8 minutes ago, Wally Pryor said:

In tune w/ the bump, Alex turned 71 yesterday.

Seventy fucking one.

I already pre-ordered his book coming out in October. Brothers https://a.co/d/10kBvIL

[jimmyjazz 47,221]

I don't know when (or if) Alex sobered up, but if he was downing a 12-pack per day in the mid-80s and is still doing so, he's at Keef level immortality.

[Rimbo 27,035]

6 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I don't know when (or if) Alex sobered up, but if he was downing a 12-pack per day in the mid-80s and is still doing so, he's at Keef level immortality.

I think it was briefly mentioned on Wolf's Behind the Music episode that Alex DID sober up.

Whether he stayed on the wagon or not, especially after Ed's death, is another thing.

[Wally Pryor 5,410]

14 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I don't know when (or if) Alex sobered up, but if he was downing a 12-pack per day in the mid-80s and is still doing so, he's at Keef level immortality.

In their day 12 paks were just appetizers.

[Rimbo 27,035]

Van Halen was the best thing to ever happen to Sammy Hagar. Sammy Hagar was the worst thing to ever happen to Van Halen.

I've read Alex's book now. I barfed up my review on Amazon if you wanna read it. Acquired and finished it the day it was released.

Alex mentions that he still talks to DLR all the time. Sammy? Barely even mentioned.

[Chad Fuck 18,139]

Van Halen was the best thing to ever happen to Sammy Hagar. Sammy Hagar was the worst thing to ever happen to Van Halen.
I've read Alex's book now. I barfed up my review on Amazon if you wanna read it. Acquired and finished it the day it was released.
Alex mentions that he still talks to DLR all the time. Sammy? Barely even mentioned.

Great review. For those of us not steeped in the VH lore, what’s she short version of why Sammy is barely mentioned? What’s the beef?

[Ten Bears 2,500]

11 hours ago, Rimbo said:

Van Halen was the best thing to ever happen to Sammy Hagar. Sammy Hagar was the worst thing to ever happen to Van Halen.

I've read Alex's book now. I barfed up my review on Amazon if you wanna read it. Acquired and finished it the day it was released.

Alex mentions that he still talks to DLR all the time. Sammy? Barely even mentioned.

In high school I use to say that Hagar joining Van Halen ruined two of my favorite bands.

[Rimbo 27,035]

3 hours ago, Chad Fuck said:

Great review. For those of us not steeped in the VH lore, what’s she short version of why Sammy is barely mentioned? What’s the beef?

It's complicated.

tldr, Sammy's a guy I'd share a bottle with, but not someone I'd go into business with.

Alex and Ted disagree on this. Ted thinks that Sammy ultimately broke up Van Halen; Ted thinks he could've gotten the band back together if Sammy hadn't gotten involved. Alex instead thinks the breakup was a long time in coming, something that had built up over years. Ted and Noel blame Dave for going off and doing his own things; Alex actually blames Ed for doing "Thriller" before that.

It's really complicated.

But yeah, by simply never mentioning Sammy or the Sammy years, I think Alex says more than if he'd written chapters on the topic.

Mike and Sammy remain friends, and Mike more or less got screwed by the brothers, so I see why Mike has more or less taken Sammy's side on things. But pretty much everyone else, oddly enough INCLUDING Sammy, says that it was Dave that more or less made that band successful. Ed would otherwise likely have been this guy that guitar guys knew about, like Yngwie or Vai, and not the massive household name they became.

In general, Sammy says things that are often easily disproved, and that casts doubt on the rest of what he says, especially when literally everyone else is saying other things.

It's a mess.

[Rimbo 27,035]

On 5/9/2024 at 1:50 PM, Rimbo said:

I think it was briefly mentioned on Wolf's Behind the Music episode that Alex DID sober up.

Whether he stayed on the wagon or not, especially after Ed's death, is another thing.

Oh, and at least according to Alex, he's stayed sober.

It's a point of emphasis for him that Ed was not able to.

[0xdeadbeef 1,699]

12 hours ago, Rimbo said:

Van Halen was the best thing to ever happen to Sammy Hagar. Sammy Hagar was the worst thing to ever happen to Van Halen.

I've read Alex's book now. I barfed up my review on Amazon if you wanna read it. Acquired and finished it the day it was released.

Alex mentions that he still talks to DLR all the time. Sammy? Barely even mentioned.

 

So I guess we're pretending Gary Cherone wasn't a thing.

 

 

[Rimbo 27,035]

Just now, 0xdeadbeef said:

 

So I guess we're pretending Gary Cherone wasn't a thing.

 

 

We don't really have to pretend that. 😁

[Rimbo 27,035]

21 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

Mike and Sammy remain friends, and Mike more or less got screwed by the brothers, so I see why Mike has more or less taken Sammy's side on things. But pretty much everyone else, oddly enough INCLUDING Sammy, says that it was Dave that more or less made that band successful. Ed would otherwise likely have been this guy that guitar guys knew about, like Yngwie or Vai, and not the massive household name they became.

also, this paragraph needs to be humanely destroyed... more or less.

This is what happens when I Surly before I've had my coffee.

[jimmyjazz 47,221]

I find it comical that Eddie couldn't have been huge without DLR.  I'm totally on Team Dave over Team Sammy, but Eddie's talent was far too vast to contain.  He would have been the icon he grew into regardless of how his baby bands came up through the ranks.

[Deej 77,842]

On 5/9/2024 at 3:42 PM, jimmyjazz said:

I don't know when (or if) Alex sobered up, but if he was downing a 12-pack per day in the mid-80s and is still doing so, he's at Keef level immortality.

Well shit...if that's all it takes...

[Rimbo 27,035]

49 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I find it comical that Eddie couldn't have been huge without DLR.  I'm totally on Team Dave over Team Sammy, but Eddie's talent was far too vast to contain.  He would have been the icon he grew into regardless of how his baby bands came up through the ranks.

I mean, who am I supposed to believe?

You...

Or Ted, Noel, Sammy, and especially Alex?

That's what ate Ed up so much.

[tx 3 putt 78,702]

alex van halen has always seemed like a very very flawed person with deep deep deep issues 

when sammy joined the band his manager took over van halen, they had business success 

[G650 14,440]

I read it on a lark as I didn't have much else in the queue, I'd rate it as aight. Didn't really change my thoughts on any of the Van Halen people one way or another.

[Rimbo 27,035]

2 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

alex van halen has always seemed like a very very flawed person with deep deep deep issues 

when sammy joined the band his manager took over van halen, they had business success 

Alex had nothing but nice things to say about Leffler, too. Same with Ed. Notice how the band more or less ended after he died?

[tx 3 putt 78,702]

5 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

Alex had nothing but nice things to say about Leffler, too. Same with Ed. Notice how the band more or less ended after he died?

 

ed handled everything, except the music. the band took it all to him and he worked it out. the band just had to talk about music 

when he passed, every snake in the grass wanted a piece of the action. the van halen bros were musicians, not business men 

[Gil Bang 26,242]

 

 

[Rimbo 27,035]

33 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

 

 

Seems reasonable. Saw the same blindspots in Ted's autobiography about himself.

[Rimbo 27,035]

btw counterpoint to the whole "don't want to say anything to make myself look bad in my memoir" thing is Steve Lukather, who is self-effacing, humble, and apologetic as shit.

 

[tx 3 putt 78,702]

one band I should have seen live, had my chances

of course the DLR version was greatness, but zero complaints about the sammy years. DLR was always jealous that EVH was the true star. everything Ive seen about EVH is he was just a very good guy. 

 

 

 

 

side note, saw wolfie before pantera / metallica and 100% i want to see his full show. talented guy

 

funny EVH clip ....

 

[Rimbo 27,035]

12 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I find it comical that Eddie couldn't have been huge without DLR.  I'm totally on Team Dave over Team Sammy, but Eddie's talent was far too vast to contain.  He would have been the icon he grew into regardless of how his baby bands came up through the ranks.

So, because I can literally talk forever about this topic, now that I'm on a keyboard instead of a phone...

Here's the thing.

You and I, because we are complete nerds, can name some absolute legends at guitar that other complete nerds can also name. Guys like Jason Becker, for example. Now the point is not to say whether or not these guys are better than Ed, but to point out their relative obscurity. (And, you know, not just guitar; is Rick Wakeman a household name? You and I know who he is... but outside of old glam/prog rock nerds, who else has heard of him?)

It was Dave who:

• Made them get out of t-shirts and jeans
• Drove them to the gigs
• Got them to write shorter, peppier songs instead of 17-minute long odes to Black Sabbath
  • It's really hard to overstate Dave's 1940s dance hall tunes influence on VH's sound and how much that MADE their sound
• Put on the show every night
• Worked every bit as hard as the rest of them because he was 100% all in
• After Gene Simmons' band rejected them, gave everyone the pep talk to pick up their spirits and let them know that they were not. Fucking. Giving up.

And it's not just those concrete things. Ed and Al's dad himself told them: "People don't go to hear the band; they go to see the band." They went to see the hollowed-out bomb effects mount and the flaming drumsticks and the finger tapping and the cute young men jammin' but above all they went to see Dave jumping and wearing assless chaps.

 

Think about this, for a second.

Right now, wherever you are, there's a symphony nearby. In that symphony is a principal oboist. This person slaved at their craft for decades before getting that role, surpassing countless other hopefuls, mastering an incredibly demanding instrument. They have more skill and musicianship in one hand than almost every so-called "great" guitarist we've ever heard of had in their whole body, and they're playing a much more difficult instrument on pieces of music that are orders of magnitude more complex and deep than anything any dumb pop/rock/blues band ever shat out, and they are absolutely crushing this amazing instrument 2 nights and a matinee every week...

...in front of an audience of sleeping pensioners.

It's easy to see Ed the legend and think, Yeah of course someone that good was gonna be that famous without recognizing that there are people out there who surpass him on a daily basis, thousands of them, that you never hear about because they didn't have a marketing department, a bunch of roadies, a business manager, and above all a Dave who added just the right mojo to the music and to the show to actually make them famous.

And if you want proof of that, all you have to do is look at Ed and Alex's Dad. Why, if they hadn't invited him to play on Diver Down, where would you find a recording of him? Would you have heard of him without them?

[G650 14,440]

16 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

 

 

 

[G650 14,440]

14 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

everything Ive seen about EVH is he was just a very good guy. 

Come again

[0xdeadbeef 1,699]

16 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

one band I should have seen live, had my chances

of course the DLR version was greatness, but zero complaints about the sammy years. DLR was always jealous that EVH was the true star. everything Ive seen about EVH is he was just a very good guy. 

 

He was an alcoholic from age 10 and a hardcore drug user.  I've knows a handful of folks in that type category and they were scary MFers when they wanted a fix.  Can't imagine Eddie was any different. 

[honolulu horn 6,232]

Eddie was super cool to me when I met him in the backstage hallways of the Erwin Center around 1991. He signed my stuff and warmed up for the show in front of me. I didn't see any alcohol or parties or girls or anything. He was just a pro, and he was super cool to a young nameless fan that he had met 1,000,000 times before. To be fair Sammy was super cool as well. 

[Rimbo 27,035]

4 hours ago, 0xdeadbeef said:

He was an alcoholic from age 10 and a hardcore drug user.  I've knows a handful of folks in that type category and they were scary MFers when they wanted a fix.  Can't imagine Eddie was any different. 

Alex, yes. Ed, no. Ed has been described by nearly everyone as a "gentle soul." Yes, he had horrible issues and demons, but he's just not a scary guy in any circumstance.

But Alex? Yep. 100%.

[G650 14,440]

lol.

[locodos 5,591]

On 11/12/2024 at 9:23 PM, tx 3 putt said:

everything Ive seen about EVH is he was just a very good guy.

Laughs in Michael Anthony

[boilerhorn 1,632]

NSIAP - Alex Van Halen with Anderson Cooper.  Interesting personal interlude by Billy Bob Thornton - about the loss of his own brother - around 6:45

 

Around 12:00 mark:
Cooper: so your dad struggled with alcohol.
Al: He didn't struggle with it.  He loved it.  My grandfather died from it.  My dad's brothers died from it.  My dad died from it.  I came very close.  And Ed battled with it his whole life.

Al says it was Dave's idea to have Jan Van Halen play clarinet on Diver Down's Big Bad Bill (is sweet William now).  He thanks Dave for the idea.
 

 

[Rimbo 27,035]

I want to be friends with Wolf.

[boilerhorn 1,632]

Funny how you can see both Ed and Val in his smile.  As you might expect

Wolf is uber-talented.  And hard working.  Love how he got the double-kick in it a few times...  And the open hi-hat.

He's also very sensitive to the band who wrote it.  He does not want to mess it up.  His instincts are fantastic - the fills ending the chorus are impeccable.

[boilerhorn 1,632]

Missed this thread altogether until today...  Stream of consciousness.

@Rimbo, Sammy claims that his Ferrari was in the shop and Ed saw it.  The mechanic said that Ed should call Sammy to get him in the band.  Templeton was probably right that time could heal the wounds, but Ed called Sammy and they hit it off.  Of course, that's Sammy's version of things.

Moved to Austin in 1978 - 4th grade.  Guy across the street from me was a little older and had a vast record collection.  One would characterize him as a country-boy or "kicker" at the time, but he introduced me to VH1.  I'd never heard anything like it before.  Parents raised me on pop, Elvis, and BeeGees.  Think back to the first time you ever heard "Running With the Devil".  Oh my!

Missed the VH 1984 tour - I am sure I did something stupid and parents said, "Nah - no need for you to go."  Saw VH supporting the 5150 tour at FEC in 1986.  Was on 4th row floor - near stage left.  It was a fantastic show.  Ed's beer cup was near there.  I have never seen anyone drink so much Schlitz Malt Liquor before in my life.  Or since.  Again, the show was fantastic.  5150 was far more "pop" than anything they had done before.  My favorites: Summer Nights and 5150.

CSB
Roth played Stubbs quite a few years back.  Before the show, I went to the restroom.  While I was standing & peeing, a guy kept coming in and walking out.  After the 3rd time, I said, "everything OK?" and he said, "Dave needs to use the restroom."  I said, "Let Dave use the restroom, I will leave him alone."  I leave and the same guy says, "Hey, can you watch the door until Dave comes out?"  Sure.  Dave comes out, says "Thanks man" and proceeds to return to his pregaming w/o inviting me.  Show was awesome.  Favorite part was his guitar and bass player hiding behind amp stacks as Dave started spinning/twirling a large metal staff.
/CSB.

Edited December 10 by boilerhorn

[Rimbo 27,035]

those actually were cool stories

[NWBuck 8,629]

5 hours ago, boilerhorn said:

NSIAP - Alex Van Halen with Anderson Cooper.  Interesting personal interlude by Billy Bob Thornton - about the loss of his own brother - around 6:45

 

Around 12:00 mark:
Cooper: so your dad struggled with alcohol.
Al: He didn't struggle with it.  He loved it.  My grandfather died from it.  My dad's brothers died from it.  My dad died from it.  I came very close.  And Ed battled with it his whole life.

Al says it was Dave's idea to have Jan Van Halen play clarinet on Diver Down's Big Bad Bill (is sweet William now).  He thanks Dave for the idea.
 

 

Coming to post this... really good interview (and the BBT quote landed right at the heart of some personal stuff I've been navigating)

[jimmyjazz 47,221]

Damn Wolfie is talented.  I dare say he's a better drummer than his uncle.

[boilerhorn 1,632]

On 11/12/2024 at 11:10 AM, jimmyjazz said:

I find it comical that Eddie couldn't have been huge without DLR.  I'm totally on Team Dave over Team Sammy, but Eddie's talent was far too vast to contain.  He would have been the icon he grew into regardless of how his baby bands came up through the ranks.

Guys like Satriana, Vai, Malmsteen, etc. are "huge" and iconic, IMO. But not EVH huge, of course.  I guess I am splitting hairs here, as most of the "huge" guitar players among the laymen have some sort of band-level connection for them.  We all know about Page, Gilmour, Rhodes, Slash, Gibbons, Schon, etc. because of their band affiliation first and not their virtuosity.  

Of course, there's Hendrix, Beck, Clapton, SRV, etc. who were solo guys, which may be an exception, but Beck and Clapton got their starts in bands.  SRV was not really nationally recognized until 10+ years after he moved to Austin.  Heck most folks did not even know that he played guitar on most of Bowie's Let's Dance.

Not sure what my point is here, but that Van Halen - and its evolution after adding DLR - helped EVH become a huge sensation almost immediately upon the release of their first record.

Slight thread derail: Similarly, we probably are not as aware of Neal Schon w/o Steve Perry.  Before Perry, Journey was a "self-indulgent" (using Schon's words) jam band.  Schon joined Santana at age 17 and formed Journey at age 19 in 1973.  Perry joined in 1978 and they printed money through around 1986. 

[Rimbo 27,035]

1 hour ago, boilerhorn said:

Guys like Satriana, Vai, Malmsteen, etc. are "huge" and iconic, IMO. But not EVH huge, of course.  I guess I am splitting hairs here, as most of the "huge" guitar players among the laymen have some sort of band-level connection for them.  We all know about Page, Gilmour, Rhodes, Slash, Gibbons, Schon, etc. because of their band affiliation first and not their virtuosity.  

Of course, there's Hendrix, Beck, Clapton, SRV, etc. who were solo guys, which may be an exception, but Beck and Clapton got their starts in bands.  SRV was not really nationally recognized until 10+ years after he moved to Austin.  Heck most folks did not even know that he played guitar on most of Bowie's Let's Dance.

Not sure what my point is here, but that Van Halen - and its evolution after adding DLR - helped EVH become a huge sensation almost immediately upon the release of their first record.

Slight thread derail: Similarly, we probably are not as aware of Neal Schon w/o Steve Perry.  Before Perry, Journey was a "self-indulgent" (using Schon's words) jam band.  Schon joined Santana at age 17 and formed Journey at age 19 in 1973.  Perry joined in 1978 and they printed money through around 1986. 

And then there was the guacamole incident.

[boilerhorn 1,632]

15 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

And then there was the guacamole incident.

Can you imagine a tour w/ VH supporting VH1 opening for Journey supporting Infinity?  Wow.

According to Schon, Monstrose played between VH and Journey.  Steve Smith (who would join Journey on Evolution - just after this tour) played with Ronnie Montrose, etc. - it was instrumental.

Another derail:
CSB
I've met Steve Smith several times, as he plays many shows in clubs (Iridium, Birdland, et) in Manhattan.  After he was booted from Journey around "Raised on Radio" (he played on one song), he joined Jazz Fusion band Steps Ahead, featuring tenor sax player Michael Brecker and vibraphone player Mike Manieri.  Anyhow, he and his band mates are very accessible after shows.  Great to talk to.  One night, I am looking around the bar and see Mike Manieri.  I walk up to him and ask if he is who he is.  He looks at me astonished that someone would recognize him.  I said, "yeah, I am a huge fan of Steps ahead.  What you and Brecker did was fantastic."  Anyhow, he teaches at NYU and was there to see Steve.
/CSB

 

[jimmyjazz 47,221]

Steve Smith is an absolute monster.  I met him in 1980 after a stadium show in St. Louis.  He was very cool to talk to a barely teenager like me.  Gregg Rolie?  Not so much.  Asshole.