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Van Halen Appreciation thread

BigDHornfan

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tbone_

tbone_ 14105

Posted
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I went back and listened to the whole 5150 album yesterday. Say whatever you want about Sammy sucks, keyboards suck, Van Hagar sucks etc etc etc. I get it.

But Eddie has some serious legit guitar work on that album. Go back and check it out. It doesn’t get near the credit that it should.

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texasdago

texasdago 7562

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7 hours ago, tbone_ said:

I went back and listened to the whole 5150 album yesterday. Say whatever you want about Sammy sucks, keyboards suck, Van Hagar sucks etc etc etc. I get it.

But Eddie has some serious legit guitar work on that album. Go back and check it out. It doesn’t get near the credit that it should.

Is there a version with only Eddie's guitar playing and the rest removed?

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GhostOfTomJoad

GhostOfTomJoad 9323

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The challenge with Van Halen is that their music was PERFECTLY tuned to the inner vibe of any 13-17 year old boy dreaming of emerging from his dorky basement bedroom and laying wood to the plastic fantastic girl of his dreams.

You're cool. No, you're really cool. She's totally gonna wanna fuck you. Ease back...between my legs. Etc.

They had a great sound, immense presence, and lyrics about dry humping. 

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Doc Daneeka

Doc Daneeka 6769

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Fair Warning, in general, and Unchained, in particular, were peak Van Halen. Not saying there weren’t other good songs on other albums — have you seen Junior’s grades? — but the debut and Fair Warning stand far above everything else, especially the keyboard nonsense. Imo. 
 

Summer between junior and senior year of high school. Season tickets to Six Flags and all the high school girls that implies. Money to burn from a summer job. 455HO GTO. Looked old enough to buy beer with no issues. Maybe that skews my perception, but, damn, this album, though. 

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tbone_

tbone_ 14105

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My annual rant about Alex Van Halen's drum sound incoming:  I swear they put a flange on it.  Cardboard boxes with a flanger.  Give me a fucking break.  He's not a bad drummer but he has the absolute #1 worst drum sound of all time.

Every time I hear VH now I think about this. Honestly, it doesn’t sound that bad to me. Just sounds like Van Halen’s drums.
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dcbc

dcbc 14464

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1 hour ago, tbone_ said:


Every time I hear VH now I think about this. Honestly, it doesn’t sound that bad to me. Just sounds like Van Halen’s drums.

I just googled it to see if I could get an example of this and, naturally, it's a bunch of drummers trying to recreat his sound.  To me, the snare sounds really hollow and loose, the bass drum is fairly tight (just a touch of flub), and the toms sound like they're getting more of a room mic.  Lots of decay on the cymbals and high hat.  I don't hear a flange or comb filter type sound though.  I don't find it offensive, but I wouldn't call it one of my top drum sounds either.  My description is from my recent listen to "I'll Wait" of 1984. 

 

I only saw them live twice (both with Sammy).  I don't remember anything too distinct about the drums in a live setting.  Anyway, don't care, saw Eddie play Eruption from the 8th row.

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tbone_

tbone_ 14105

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I only saw them live twice (both with Sammy).  I don't remember anything too distinct about the drums in a live setting.  Anyway, don't care, saw Eddie play Eruption from the 8th row.


Only time I saw them live with Dave I was so drunk I pissed on the floor at Reunion Arena. So that experience is no help.
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Rimbo

Rimbo 25908

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So this is super interesting and hilarious.

I love watching the Charismatic Voice because she's fucking hot as hell, but also because she has some really great insights into music.

What's great about this is, while DLR will never be mistaken for being an opera singer (like she is), she really points out the details of his singing that make him a great vocalist.

also hilarious because a former boyfriend of hers would apparently play this song every day when she came home from teaching

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45877

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I've heard all the horror stories about DLR in the studio, he couldn't sing anything, whatever.  I saw him live in 1979 and he fucking killed.  Maybe he just isn't comfortable in a studio situation, but he can definitely sing, and certainly sing in the most perfect manner imaginable for that band.

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utee94

utee94 15797

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On 5/20/2023 at 1:38 PM, Rimbo said:

So this is super interesting and hilarious.

I love watching the Charismatic Voice because she's fucking hot as hell, but also because she has some really great insights into music.

What's great about this is, while DLR will never be mistaken for being an opera singer (like she is), she really points out the details of his singing that make him a great vocalist.

also hilarious because a former boyfriend of hers would apparently play this song every day when she came home from teaching

Yeah I really love it when she analyzes hard rock and heavy metal vocalists.  She understands that what they do, is different than what an opera singer does, and she shows a lot of respect for it.  Her reaction/analysis video for the Disturbed version of Sound of Silence is really great.

 

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Gil Bang

Gil Bang 25906

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I remember when Sammy came in.  Somebody asked Dave about it.  Dave said something like "Sammy Hagar has been making good Rock and Roll for many years, but Van Halen was making history".

On 1/27/2023 at 2:56 PM, jimmyjazz said:

Those 80s solid state amps were brutal.  I joined a band at the request of a pretty decent guitarist/songwriter and the full on laser-tone blast of his Randall full stack nearly deafened me.  I didn't last long.

My first "real" amp was a Randall RB120.  It barely fit in the backseat of my '67 Mustang.

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Rimbo

Rimbo 25908

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Just now, Gil Bang said:

I remember when Sammy came in.  Somebody asked Dave about it.  Dave said something like "Sammy Hagar has been making good Rock and Roll for many years, but Van Halen was making history".

I was late to the party (born too late) so I didn't get to see Van Halen with DLR until their first tour with Wolf on the bass.

Up until that time, I thought both versions were good, because it was all about Ed in the end.

The very second that I heard Dave's voice in that show, I immediately realized I'd been living a lie this whole time and that Van Hagar was counterfeit. Something about DLR + EVH sings to your soul in a way Sammy's version never could.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45877

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Interesting timing . . . I just (again) saw Dan Rather's interview with Sammy Hagar.  I think Sammy's probably a good dude, with plenty of chops as a player and singer, but he was really hypercritical of Dave, to the point where his criticism seemed overly misplaced.  He basically said Dave was a good showman but not a musician, and even panned Dave's lyrics.

Uh, Sammy, have you ever read one word you've ever written?  Because you SUCK as a lyricist.  Sammy's not in Dave's orbit as a lyricist.  It was kinda sad, I think he'd be a fun guy to hang out with, and I can't say the same about Dave, but that particular critique really shocked me.

How do I know when it's love?

I can't tell you but it lasts forever

How does it feel when it's love

It's just something you feel together

 

Jesus.  I'm sure that one had Springsteen fearing for his job.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45877

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Sammy couldn't write this lyric in a million years, and it's not exactly Yeats:

I get up and nothin' gets me down
You've got it tough, I've seen the toughest around
And I know, baby, just how you feel
You've got to roll with the punches to get to what's real

Ah, can't you see me standin' here
I got my back against the record machine
I ain't the worst that you've seen
Ah, can't you see what I mean?

Edited by jimmyjazz
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Rimbo

Rimbo 25908

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2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Interesting timing . . . I just (again) saw Dan Rather's interview with Sammy Hagar.  I think Sammy's probably a good dude, with plenty of chops as a player and singer, but he was really hypercritical of Dave, to the point where his criticism seemed overly misplaced.  He basically said Dave was a good showman but not a musician, and even panned Dave's lyrics.

After reading just about every book ever written about Van Halen, I got the distinct impression that Sammy was like that one friend that's great to have a drink with, but you'd never want to get into business with. The guy who was your good high school friend, went to college with some other friends, roomed with them, and they all ended up shunning him because he did some dishonest bullshit.

You knew what Ed's demon was: Booze. But Sammy has issues. His version of events diverges from everyone else's. Which makes me scratch my head and wonder why Mike would say "If Sammy said it happened, that's how it happened."

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45877

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6 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

You knew what Ed's demon was: Booze. But Sammy has issues. His version of events diverges from everyone else's. Which makes me scratch my head and wonder why Mike would say "If Sammy said it happened, that's how it happened."

Can you elaborate?  In that interview, he basically said he was a sex addict, but claims he didn't dive very deep into the booze and coke.  In what way does his viewpoint differ from the other guys' (sans Michael)?  

Just curious, I've never done a deep dive into the band, I'm just a fan from VH1 through the end of Roth.  After that, count me out.

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Rimbo

Rimbo 25908

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Actually, now that I remember the band screwing Michael Anthony out of royalties, I CAN imagine why he'd say that.

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

Can you elaborate?  In that interview, he basically said he was a sex addict, but claims he didn't dive very deep into the booze and coke.  In what way does his viewpoint differ from the other guys' (sans Michael)?  

Just curious, I've never done a deep dive into the band, I'm just a fan from VH1 through the end of Roth.  After that, count me out.

After I finished Templeman's book, I barfed up a summary of everything I learned into Reddit... lemme dig it up.

I can't remember too many specifics to answer your question since it was a library loan and several years ago. It's things like exaggerating the size of crowds, how much money they made, etc.

But this snippet I wrote about Ted nails it:

Quote

But he saw the VH split as being no different from any other intra-band argument he'd seen ... until Sammy got involved. "What Sammy did isn't much different than the guy who puts the moves on a wife who has recently separated from her husband." After that, both sides dug in.

Basically, Ted ultimately blames Sammy for breaking up the band. He was convinced they'd get back together... until that happened, and the WAY that it happened.

And Ted LIKED Sammy. Said he had more fun producing VOA than any other album.

 

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G650

G650 14229

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17 hours ago, utee94 said:

Her reaction/analysis video for the Disturbed version of Sound of Silence is really great.

This entire sentence has broken my brain and I cannot even come up with a coherent reply so I'm just quoting for posterity to say this is insane.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45877

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48 minutes ago, G650 said:

This entire sentence has broken my brain and I cannot even come up with a coherent reply so I'm just quoting for posterity to say this is insane.

It's an extraordinarily awful rendition of a good song.  The yarling, it burns.

I'm sure it appeals to fans of Evanescence.

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shakahorn

shakahorn 1645

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On 1/29/2023 at 6:32 AM, texasdago said:

I liked Sammy Hagar pre VH and I loved VH with DLR.  Van Halen with Sammy? Pass.  

I always say, the best part of a VH concert with Sammy was when they do all his old songs.  Well, that and whatever variation of Eruption EVH plays.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45877

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1 hour ago, shakahorn said:

I always say, the best part of a VH concert with Sammy was when they do all his old songs.  Well, that and whatever variation of Eruption EVH plays.

I only saw Van Halen once, on the aforementioned VH2 tour, their first headlining effort.

While I am completely nonplussed by the Van Hagar output, I wouldn't mind hearing that band rip into some old Montrose and solo-era Sammy stuff.

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Rimbo

Rimbo 25908

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9 hours ago, tbone_ said:

Rock stars have egos. Who knew.

This oversimplifies it. I mean, you can definitely point to DLR's massive ego leading him to go off and do things outside the band. Ed's reaction to it is... much more complicated; a highly trained psychologist would have a field day, here. Sammy basically being The Other Woman Singer then becomes the wedge.

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tbone_

tbone_ 14105

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It's an extraordinarily awful rendition of a good song.  The yarling, it burns.
I'm sure it appeals to fans of Evanescence.

Now imagine you sit through an a capella version of it at an open mic from someone who let’s just say is not as good a singer as the guy from Disturbed.

Yea, that really happened. I’m not sure I’ll ever fully recover.
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MirrOlure

MirrOlure 14750

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After reading just about every book ever written about Van Halen, I got the distinct impression that Sammy was like that one friend that's great to have a drink with, but you'd never want to get into business with. The guy who was your good high school friend, went to college with some other friends, roomed with them, and they all ended up shunning him because he did some dishonest bullshit.
You knew what Ed's demon was: Booze. But Sammy has issues. His version of events diverges from everyone else's. Which makes me scratch my head and wonder why Mike would say "If Sammy said it happened, that's how it happened."

@Rimbo do you have a reading list you recommend?
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Rimbo

Rimbo 25908

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14 minutes ago, MirrOlure said:


@Rimbo do you have a reading list you recommend?

Well, what I recommend depends on what you want to know.

  • I am Ozzy by Ozzy Osbourne. Yeah, it's mostly about Ozzy, but he does talk about touring with VH a bit, and shit, it's an awesome book; you should read it. Seriously, it's one of the most entertaining books I've ever read. And I read a lot. If you read no other book, just read this one. Just for the entertainment value.

  • Van Halen Rising by Greg Renoff -- covers the history of the band from the very beginnings up until VH1. Incredibly well-researched and covers all the details of Van Halen's childhood, development as musicians, how the band grew.

  • Runnin' with the Devil: A Backstage Pass to the Wild Times, Loud Rock, and the Down and Dirty Truth Behind the Making of Van Halen by Noel Monk -- Monk's memoir on being their first manager. Covers from VH1 through 1984. Great stories, great insights from the outside.

  • Red: My Uncensored Life in Rock by Sammy Hagar. You read all the other books and get a certain impression of Sammy, and not a good one; reading this more or less confirms it, but you gotta give the guy a chance to defend himself.

  • Crazy from the Heat by David Lee Roth. Like with Sammy, you read all the other stories and get the impression that Dave was brilliant. Even Sammy gives him begrudging credit. It's the only autobiography (and a rare one among celebrities) actually written by the man himself, which makes it simultaneously the hardest to read, but also the most fascinating. He jumps all over the place; there's no organization to the stories. But it's hella fascinating. This is also the hardest book to find; it's been out of print for a while. I ended up having to buy a used copy to get it. Everything else you can get on Kindle or at the library easily enough.

  • Eruption: Conversations with Eddie Van Halen -- Brad Tolinski and Chris Gill. Ed's life. Gives yout he best insight into Ed, the man, himself, in his own words.

  • Ted Templeman: A Platinum Producer's Life in Music by Greg Renoff. VH1 through 1984. Similar to Monk's book, but an entirely different perspective; also covers the Doobies.

I read them in that order, although I re-read I am Ozzy a couple of times in the middle there (and will again). Each one has a completely different piece of the puzzle, a different perspective on the whole thing.

After I finished Ted's book I barfed out this nonsense on reddit, kinda summarizing what my big takeaways from all of it were.

 

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Rimbo

Rimbo 25908

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4 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

Well, what I recommend depends on what you want to know.

  • I am Ozzy by Ozzy Osbourne. Yeah, it's mostly about Ozzy, but he does talk about touring with VH a bit, and shit, it's an awesome book; you should read it. Seriously, it's one of the most entertaining books I've ever read. And I read a lot. If you read no other book, just read this one. Just for the entertainment value.

  • Van Halen Rising by Greg Renoff -- covers the history of the band from the very beginnings up until VH1. Incredibly well-researched and covers all the details of Van Halen's childhood, development as musicians, how the band grew.

  • Runnin' with the Devil: A Backstage Pass to the Wild Times, Loud Rock, and the Down and Dirty Truth Behind the Making of Van Halen by Noel Monk -- Monk's memoir on being their first manager. Covers from VH1 through 1984. Great stories, great insights from the outside.

  • Red: My Uncensored Life in Rock by Sammy Hagar. You read all the other books and get a certain impression of Sammy, and not a good one; reading this more or less confirms it, but you gotta give the guy a chance to defend himself.

  • Crazy from the Heat by David Lee Roth. Like with Sammy, you read all the other stories and get the impression that Dave was brilliant. Even Sammy gives him begrudging credit. It's the only autobiography (and a rare one among celebrities) actually written by the man himself, which makes it simultaneously the hardest to read, but also the most fascinating. He jumps all over the place; there's no organization to the stories. But it's hella fascinating. This is also the hardest book to find; it's been out of print for a while. I ended up having to buy a used copy to get it. Everything else you can get on Kindle or at the library easily enough.

  • Eruption: Conversations with Eddie Van Halen -- Brad Tolinski and Chris Gill. Ed's life. Gives yout he best insight into Ed, the man, himself, in his own words.

  • Ted Templeman: A Platinum Producer's Life in Music by Greg Renoff. VH1 through 1984. Similar to Monk's book, but an entirely different perspective; also covers the Doobies.

I read them in that order, although I re-read I am Ozzy a couple of times in the middle there (and will again). Each one has a completely different piece of the puzzle, a different perspective on the whole thing.

After I finished Ted's book I barfed out this nonsense on reddit, kinda summarizing what my big takeaways from all of it were.

 

Also, someone in that reddit thread recommended Tonechaser. Which I have not read, but looks really good.

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