Red Meat is Not What is Killing You.

[The Dude 1244]

Not the red meat?  It’s the cancer isn’t it?  I fucking knew it. 

[66BUFF 2562]

Looks like meat's back on the menu, Boys!

[SimonBolivar 10957]

5 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

 It takes about 15 to 20 cows in India to produce the same amount of milk as one cow here).  And our little fatties are getting more efficient thanks for genetics and breeding!  There are less than 10 million milk cows in the US.  Back in the 50-60's there were ten times as many.  So in that, we've reduced our "carbon footprint".  

Good for farmers and the environment, but bad for consumers. Milk (along with almost all food) is less nutritious than it used to be. 

[Iceman 2694]

There is no way to win against the foodies religion.

Just take this fucking pill and everything will be OK...

[smuggs 9353]

What about Subway brisket? Asking for the BBQ connoisseurs out there.

[South Austin 52456]

15 hours ago, 66BUFF said:

Looks like meat's back on the menu, Boys!

[BabaYaga 15289]

12 hours ago, SimonBolivar said:

Good for farmers and the environment, but bad for consumers. Milk (along with almost all food) is less nutritious than it used to be. 

Maybe not "all".....

[ImissWallyPryor 9046]

Something that taints so much of the discussion on this and other health and nutrition topics is climate change.  /no Cloak Room

The fact that the effect the cattle industry has or doesn’t have on climate change make people take sides that might not have anything to do with nutrition. The author eludes to that more than once, so it makes me wonder how much this lies just beneath the surface in the stance taken by researchers and institutions.

[SimonBolivar 10957]

3 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Maybe not "all".....

Ya wild game eating wild grass is still nutritious as all get out and it tastes better too. 

Edited October 3, 2019 by SimonBolivar

[BabaYaga 15289]

42 minutes ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

Something that taints so much of the discussion on this and other health and nutrition topics is climate change.  /no Cloak Room

The fact that the effect the cattle industry has or doesn’t have on climate change make people take sides that might not have anything to do with nutrition. The author eludes to that more than once, so it makes me wonder how much this lies just beneath the surface in the stance taken by researchers and institutions.

What I was alluding to in my earlier post.  Where I can and do "see the other side" is the factory farming aspect of all of this.  The ethical aspect to how the animals are treated.  

[The Royal We 3067]

I did a quick search and didn't find a topic on cholesterol but found this interesting thread from a few years back.

What's the current consensus in the medical community about cholesterol and statins?  High cholesterol runs in my family and mine was up over 300 in my mid 20's before I started taking a statin.  I haven't had any of the main side effects that some people have - muscle aches, sleep issues, etc., and it's helped me keep my cholesterol levels below 200.  Both my PCP and two different cardiologists have told me that the benefits of the statin outweigh any negative side effects, but it seems like the worm might be turning a bit on what some doctors think about cholesterol.        

@Sawbonz

[huge 3793]

I have been taking one daily since I turned 40 with zero side effects that I have noticed.  YMMV

[Mo Horn 8831]

I'm no doctor, or medical expert, but I have been taking a statin for a few years. Was talking the other day to a good friend whose a pharmacist, and she said there is indeed differing opinions, but one thing she said was important if you do take one if to also take coenzyme Q10 with it. She said outside the US no doctor prescribes a statin without also telling patients to take it. It significantly improves the effectiveness of the statin. We get ours at Costco. 

[The Royal We 3067]

5 minutes ago, huge said:

I have been taking one daily since I turned 40 with zero side effects that I have noticed.  YMMV

 

3 minutes ago, Mo Horn said:

I'm no doctor, or medical expert, but I have been taking a statin for a few years. Was talking the other day to a good friend whose a pharmacist, and she said there is indeed differing opinions, but one thing she said was important if you do take one if to also take coenzyme Q10 with it. She said outside the US no doctor prescribes a statin without also telling patients to take it. It significantly improves the effectiveness of the statin. We get ours at Costco. 

How many mg do you take every day?  I've heard radio commercials for CO-Q10 but have never had a Dr say anything to me about it.  I think I'll ask mine about it next time I have labs done.

Thank you both for the reply.

[huge 3793]

timing is good, I have my yearly check up tomorrow.

 

I take Atorvastatin 10mg.  I have never heard of the COQ10.  I will ask about it tomorrow.

[Mo Horn 8831]

58 minutes ago, The Royal We said:

 

How many mg do you take every day?  I've heard radio commercials for CO-Q10 but have never had a Dr say anything to me about it.  I think I'll ask mine about it next time I have labs done.

Thank you both for the reply.

The Kirkland brand is 300 Mg. My doctor never said anything to me either. My friend said most US doctors don't. She says there is zero risk, and the reward is huge. I'll be interested to hear what that say when you ask. 

[The Royal We 3067]

22 minutes ago, Mo Horn said:

The Kirkland brand is 300 Mg. My doctor never said anything to me either. My friend said most US doctors don't. She says there is zero risk, and the reward is huge. I'll be interested to hear what that say when you ask. 

I take 40 mg of atorvastatin.  I'd like to know my Dr's opinion on if I added Co-Q10 if I could lower my dosage of statin.  I'm going in the 2nd week of sept and will report back.

[Amos Moses 795]

I’ve been taking a statin for over 10 years now without any side effect and my cholesterol is well below 200. I take the CoQ10 as well. My current thinking is to stick with it until I’m 75 or so and then either reduce it to the minimum dose available or stop taking it completely. Because at that point I suspect I won’t care about long term benefits - I’ll just be happy if I can wipe my own ass.

[Mo Horn 8831]

Just now, The Royal We said:

I take 40 mg of atorvastatin.  I'd like to know my Dr's opinion on if I added Co-Q10 if I could lower my dosage of statin.  I'm going in the 2nd week of sept and will report back.

Thanks. I started on 20, and had to change doctors due to an insurance change. My new doctor switched me to 40 because he said all the studies were done on the 40, and they were very knowledgeable about what that dosage did. He said the 20 was fine, and my numbers looked good, but he was not as confidant as  the 40 since there was more stuff. I never noticed any difference, but my numbers were even better on my most recent labs and that was the only thing that changed. I'll be interested to see what they look like since I now doing the Co-Q10.

[C-Man 27194]

3 hours ago, huge said:

timing is good, I have my yearly check up tomorrow.

 

I take Atorvastatin 10mg.  I have never heard of the COQ10.  I will ask about it tomorrow.

 

1 hour ago, The Royal We said:

I take 40 mg of atorvastatin.  I'd like to know my Dr's opinion on if I added Co-Q10 if I could lower my dosage of statin.  I'm going in the 2nd week of sept and will report back.

Let me know what you hear. I take Atorvastatin 20mg. Took something much, much lighter for years but got bumped to the generic version of Lipitor a few years back. Just had my annual physical and labs done a few weeks ago.

Happy to add Co-Q10 if there's a reason to do so.

[smuggs 9353]

I started Simvastatin 20mg five years ago. Lowered my cholesterol significantly. My new Dr. wants to switch me to Rosuvastatin (Crestor) at my next appointment in the fall, says it will work better for me.

I also had the Calcium score a few months back, I scored a zero everywhere (lowest). It was $75 well spent for some peace of mind - low cholesterol numbers are great but you can still have hardening of the arteries.

[dcbc 14465]

I'm on a minimum dosage of Atorvastatin (20 mg 3x per week).  200 mg of Co-Q10 each day.  Works well.

[Texzilla58 4732]

CoQ10 is a wonder supplement. I take the 100mg Ubiquinol I get in a jug at Sams. My old man had serious congestive heart failure and CoQ10 changed his prognosis and he lived way better for another six years.

I took statins for about 15 years, ending on Lipitor. I need to be on a statin being diabetic. They wreck me as my muscles just turn to stone, where I could barely walk or get out of the car. I stopped for several years. I was then put on Livalo, Fenofibrate, Zetia, and Vascepa. My issue is really with triglycerides. She recently put me on Rapatha, a once a month injectable, kept me on Fenofibrate and Vascepa.

The best thing a diabetic can do is get a constant glucose monitor. I was terrible with finger sticks. The monitor shows me quickly what affects my sugars quickly. I try to avoid processed foods, eat lots of protein in beef, pork, chicken, venison, shrimp. Not much dairy except butter. Eat lots of veg, eat lots of fruits, too much cane sugar but avoid French fries and HFCS. I take Mounjaro, Farxiga, metformin and I’ve dropped 50+ pounds in eight months and A1C is around 6.7 and dropping.

The war on red meat is from the climate warriors, same as war on oil. I will not eat manufactured lab based or processed “plant meat”. Fuck that shit. Soylent green motherfuckers.

[C-Man 27194]

I'm on a minimum dosage of Atorvastatin (20 mg 3x per week).  200 mg of Co-Q10 each day.  Works well.

That Co-Q10 ain’t cheap. I was in CVS to snag some more Vitamin D last night. A bottle of the Co-Q10 was like $40+. I almost passed until reading more and talking to doc but they had “buy one get one” deals on most vitamins so I snagged two bottles of D and two of Co-Q10.

[Mo Horn 8831]

That's why we get ours at Costco. I think it's $25, but it does go on sale. 

[Skipper 6128]

On 8/29/2022 at 10:34 AM, The Royal We said:

Both my PCP and two different cardiologists have told me that the benefits of the statin outweigh any negative side effects, but it seems like the worm might be turning a bit on what some doctors think about cholesterol.        

@Sawbonz

I don't think any serious doctor/lipidologist thinks the "worm is turning" in regards to cholesterol (or more specifically, LDL (and even more specifically apo(b)).   There are a lot of internet grifters out there but every serious study continues to show causality between high LDL and heart disease.   Other risk factors are important as well obviously.  And as it relates to this thread, studies related to diets are so flawed it's hard to take many seriously.  Seems the best advice is eat real food (yes, including red meat) and less processed shit and try to keep weight in check and you are doing way better than the vast majority of this country.

 

Edited August 30, 2022 by Skipper

[dcbc 14465]

3 hours ago, C-Man said:

That Co-Q10 ain’t cheap. I was in CVS to snag some more Vitamin D last night. A bottle of the Co-Q10 was like $40+. I almost passed until reading more and talking to doc but they had “buy one get one” deals on most vitamins so I snagged two bottles of D and two of Co-Q10.

Yeah, some of it is a bit pricey.  The stuff I get is about $10 for 60 at 200 mg each.  Some may claim to be better and, hence, more money, but they're supplements.  Nobody knows shit about fuck.  It's the wild west.

[BurdineBandit 815]

I'm in my mid-30s, but have had high cholesterol since my teens. I'm a big dude though, like my dad is, so I think it's partly genetics and me just being big. Got my yearly checkup and Doc put me back on Rosuvastatin last week. I stopped taking it for a while, but it did bring down my levels considerably the last time I took it. Guess it's going to be a lifetime thing. I'm fine with it. I think I've accepted that I'm just always going to be dealing with the territory of being 6'3 250+. I lift 4-5x a week and jog 2-3x a week, but it doesn't undo my genetics and also my diet (I enjoy the weekend drinks and food). 

The doc did suggest a fish oil with the statin. Which I do have, but haven't looked into the difference between that and CoQ10. I thought they were similar.

[Horn Draoi 255]

OK, I just can’t resist weighing in on this-  CoQ10 does NOT enhance statin effect; it replaces the CoQ10 that statins deplete.  Replacement means the patient is much less likely to experience the the under-reported but exceedingly common muscle aches that drive people off of statins.  Fish oil helps change the HDL/LDL ratios that clinicians like to examine, not related to CoQ10 at all.

in case your MD/DO/NP/PA/pharmacist is just not well informed (only too common), statins should ALWAYS be taken at BEDTIME.  Better effect that way.

[DDD Dad 14326]

21 hours ago, C-Man said:

That Co-Q10 ain’t cheap. I was in CVS to snag some more Vitamin D last night. A bottle of the Co-Q10 was like $40+. I almost passed until reading more and talking to doc but they had “buy one get one” deals on most vitamins so I snagged two bottles of D and two of Co-Q10.

I gave your mom Vitamin D last night.

[huge 3793]

Yesterday my doc said that I could take the CoQ10 but the biggest thing it did was counteract the side effects that some see with statins.

I do not have any side effects.  Likely will not be starting it.  Yet.

She also scolded me for taking it in the morning instead of before bed.

[Skipper 6128]

From what I understand when you take a statin (morning vs. night) is only important if you are taking a statin with a short half life (and then you should definitely take at night). If taking Crestor or Lipitor I don't think it really matters that much.

[C-Man 27194]

46 minutes ago, huge said:

Yesterday my doc said that I could take the CoQ10 but the biggest thing it did was counteract the side effects that some see with statins.

I do not have any side effects.  Likely will not be starting it.  Yet.

She also scolded me for taking it in the morning instead of before bed.

 

16 minutes ago, Skipper said:

From what I understand when you take a statin (morning vs. night) is only important if you are taking a statin with a short half life (and then you should definitely take at night). If taking Crestor or Lipitor I don't think it really matters that much.

I've always taken my statin (Atorvastatin) in the AM.

[Skipper 6128]

20 minutes ago, C-Man said:

 

I've always taken my statin (Atorvastatin) in the AM.

Same.  My cardiologist said just take it at the time you are most likely to remember as part of your daily routine (which for me is definitely the morning).

[huge 3793]

1 hour ago, Skipper said:

Same.  My cardiologist said just take it at the time you are most likely to remember as part of your daily routine (which for me is definitely the morning).

That is what I told my doc and she said it is more effective if taken at night.

 

That being said I am waiting on my bloodwork results before making any changes.

[Skipper 6128]

21 minutes ago, huge said:

That is what I told my doc and she said it is more effective if taken at night.

 

That being said I am waiting on my bloodwork results before making any changes.

Which brand are you taking?  If yours has a short term half life it is better to take at night.  I

[CooterBrown 18004]

Yesterday my doc said that I could take the CoQ10 but the biggest thing it did was counteract the side effects that some see with statins.
I do not have any side effects.  Likely will not be starting it.  Yet.
She also scolded me for taking it in the morning instead of before bed.

My doctor said statistically most heart attacks are in your sleep between 2-4am. All the “dying peacefully in his sleep” people are actually dying of heart attacks. Take your heart meds from 8-10pm so the med level in your system is highest in the early morning hours.

[dcbc 14465]

17 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

My doctor said statistically most heart attacks are in your sleep between 2-4am. All the “dying peacefully in his sleep” people are actually dying of heart attacks. Take your heart meds from 8-10pm so the med level in your system is highest in the early morning hours.

And then you have your heart attack in the afternoon?

 

/it's a joke

[Mo Horn 8831]

Thought this was apropos for this thread. One of the reasons we're looking to retire overseas. 

[huge 3793]

Sorry but that doesn’t track.

Diet for 98% if this site is 100% choice.

Regardless of where you live.

[Fat Bastard 600]

Coq-10 doesn’t enhance statin effectiveness. It *can* mitigate some of the myopathy that comes with taking a statin, so if it’s a question of coming off your statin for muscle aches vs taking it and trying the coq-10, I always recommend the latter.
 

Now, there are some phenomenal new non-statin based injections you can self-administer every 2 weeks if you are statin intolerant or have familial hypercholesterolemia. 
 

re: taking the statin at night, I tell my patients to take it at night not because of any bullshit about you more likely to having an MI during sleeping hours, but should you have any of the side effects, they occur while you’re sleeping at peak therapeutic levels. 

[High Plains Drifter 11033]

On 10/2/2019 at 2:51 PM, BabaYaga said:

We have a cattle grazing lease on our place.  Rotated out during hunting season.  Many, many, many ranchers that collectively contribute a massive percentage of the beef raised for consumption come from these smaller grazing leases.  This accounts for the majority of the life cycle of the animal.  The VAST majority of land used for cows is what they call "Marginal land"....meaning you can't grow crops on it if you wanted to (unless you can find a way to cultivate Mesquite Beans.  Please GOD, make this happen...).  So it's not like this is land that could be better allocated.

As for the methane, did nobody here take any chem classes?  Hydroxy-oxidation...methane?  It breaks down in a few years (8-10).  It's being destroyed at the same rate it's being created, and even if we all go nuts and ranches open across the world, the gases quickly break down.  

 

 

Methane breaks down into carbon dioxide and water, both are greenhouse gases. During the 10 years that takes, methane traps hundreds of times more heat than CO2.

I'm not advocating we all turn into vegans by any means. I enjoy steaks and burgers as much as the next guy. But let's not fool ourselves, methane from agriculture is a significant contributor to global warming.

 

 

[Fat Bastard 600]

When India and China start giving a fuck about global warming, so will I. In the meantime, I’m gonna eat beef. 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Fat Bastard said:

When India and China start giving a fuck about global warming, so will I. In the meantime, I’m gonna eat beef. 

I genuinely don't know how to reconcile that China is the largest producer of emissions, but we do double on a per capita basis. And how much of their emissions are due to us buying things they make?