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The Rudy Thread

Francisco 2.0

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Gatorubet

Gatorubet 30,189

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1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, dischargeability in this case has to be ruled upon by the bankruptcy judge after objection to discharge by all of the defamation plaintiffs (there's about half a dozen) and a finding that the damages are the result of willful and malicious conduct.  And, those defamation plaintiffs that don't have judgments already may have to try their cases in bankruptcy court, without a jury (Smartmatic, Dominion, Coomer, etc.).

It's fairly likely that he will be denied discharge on the Freeman case, but it's not something you can just say "it's non-dischargeable," period.

I found and read the very thorough and excellent default judgment decision. I see where Rudy was specifically found to be liable for intentional inflection of emotional distress in the default judgment.  So defamation aside, there is that one intentional act tort that he cannot duck.   I also note that in his filings, Giuliani stated that the plaintiffs are public figures. The default decision noted that if that were true, then the plaintiffs would have been required to show that Rudy knew that what he was saying was false, and intentionally or recklessly made default statements anyway.    If that public figure status can be seen as an admission by Rudy, perhaps he can be estopped from claiming that the default judgment on defamation was not intentional as well.  Dunno.  

Plus, I’m a few Scotches in right now and I might be babbling. 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31,440

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1 hour ago, Gatorubet said:

I found and read the very thorough and excellent default judgment decision. I see where Rudy was specifically found to be liable for intentional inflection of emotional distress in the default judgment.  So defamation aside, there is that one intentional act tort that he cannot duck.   I also note that in his filings, Giuliani stated that the plaintiffs are public figures. The default decision noted that if that were true, then the plaintiffs would have been required to show that Rudy knew that what he was saying was false, and intentionally or recklessly made default statements anyway.    If that public figure status can be seen as an admission by Rudy, perhaps he can be estopped from claiming that the default judgment on defamation was not intentional as well.  Dunno.  

Plus, I’m a few Scotches in right now and I might be babbling. 

Yeah there's probably grounds in the original judgment for finding willful and malicious.  Even so, it will probably be the subject of an evidentiary hearing in the bankruptcy court and will require the judge to find willful and malicious, one way or another.

ETA:  I found a little article from a local news station running through this, and Howell's default judgment contained the following: “It is further DECLARED that [Giuliani's] conduct was intentional, malicious, wanton, and willful, such that plaintiffs are entitled to punitive damages . . . ."

So, yeah, that's going to go a long way toward nondischargeablity.  They'll still have to object and have some kind of briefing and hearing on the issue, so it's not a completely foregone conclusion. 

This does kind of put the onus on Coomer, Smartmatic, and Dominion to decide whether they want to go through the exercise of trying their cases against Giuliani, probably in a bankruptcy court, with little realistic chance of collecting anything.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31,440

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On 12/21/2023 at 1:46 PM, Gatorubet said:

I am not a bankruptcy law dog, so can one of those who are, please explain to us why the hell he chose an 11 - and what it means to Ruby and Shaye getting paid?

A Chapter 7 is obviously unfavorable, as it liquidates.  Chapter 13 has debt limitations of 2.75M.  Eleven is his only option to try to stay semi-solvent and paying on his various debts.

Realistically, the US and NY State probably have tax obligations that will follow him to the grave before any other claimant sees a penny.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31,440

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33 minutes ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

What a system we have 

This is a limitation on every system.  It doesn't do any fucking good to sue someone who aint got no money, other than the "principle" of the thing.  Giuliani has something, evidently, in the form of the home, but they're not going to get anywhere near the $150M they've been awarded.  Cause Rudy aint got 150M or anything close to it and he owes money all over town.

Doesn't have anything to do with bankruptcy.  The taxing authorities have priority over a later-taken judgment, regardless, and it's probably true everywhere in the world that has taxes and a civil justice system.

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Doc Sam Beckett

Doc Sam Beckett 5,792

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2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

This is a limitation on every system.  It doesn't do any fucking good to sue someone who aint got no money, other than the "principle" of the thing.  Giuliani has something, evidently, in the form of the home, but they're not going to get anywhere near the $150M they've been awarded.  Cause Rudy aint got 150M or anything close to it and he owes money all over town.

Doesn't have anything to do with bankruptcy.  The taxing authorities have priority over a later-taken judgment, regardless, and it's probably true everywhere in the world that has taxes and a civil justice system.

I get it, I would just like to see the defamed people get a decent chunk before everyone else

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105,082

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I get it, I would just like to see the defamed people get a decent chunk before everyone else

The key is that he can never, ever, ever get out from under the defamation award. He will never have any meaningful money again, ever. Earn a big speaking fee? Seize it to pay down the judgment. Buy a new house? Seize it. Buy jewelry? Seize it. And on and on and on, until he dies, miserable poor and broke.
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Doc Sam Beckett

Doc Sam Beckett 5,792

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19 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


The key is that he can never, ever, ever get out from under the defamation award. He will never have any meaningful money again, ever. Earn a big speaking fee? Seize it to pay down the judgment. Buy a new house? Seize it. Buy jewelry? Seize it. And on and on and on, until he dies, miserable poor and broke.

Is that why Alex Jones is struggling? Ahhh that's right, he's still living the life

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PenelopeWitherspoon

PenelopeWitherspoon 19,100

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12 hours ago, Brisketexan said:


Put a note in the collection plate - “hey fuckstick…enjoy poverty! Merry Christmas!” He’ll read it…he’ll be rifling through the collections.

Alas, the collection plate on my side didn't go to him.  I was on the second row in the left side, right near the nativity.  He was in the center (second or third row). 

I was seated closer to Mayor Adams.  My spot was strategic, I was able to get the hell out when they started the recessional and grab a cab and come home.

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YGIFS

YGIFS 19,449

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13 hours ago, Chris Dishman's Donut said:

I have something rattling my head around about a special offering, but it's still pretty nebulous.

You beat me to it, kudos.  There are two ways to go with the joke.  First of course is the second collection going to Rudy's legal defense/bankruptcy fund.  say what you will about the Cult of Catholicism, New York Catholics are one of the less tolerant of bullshit sects among us.  Second way to take the joke, is they pass the basket in front of Rudy, all eyes upon him to say if/what he'll give.  He pats down his jacket and mumbles, "I left my wallet at the Four Seasons.  No, the other one..."  

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Chewbacca

Chewbacca 7,767

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The key is that he can never, ever, ever get out from under the defamation award. He will never have any meaningful money again, ever. Earn a big speaking fee? Seize it to pay down the judgment. Buy a new house? Seize it. Buy jewelry? Seize it. And on and on and on, until he dies, miserable poor and broke.
As far as I'm aware, OJ Simpson has never paid a penny to Nicole Brown's family. The system is shit.
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YGIFS

YGIFS 19,449

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30 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:
On 12/22/2023 at 10:12 PM, Brisketexan said:

The key is that he can never, ever, ever get out from under the defamation award. He will never have any meaningful money again, ever. Earn a big speaking fee? Seize it to pay down the judgment. Buy a new house? Seize it. Buy jewelry? Seize it. And on and on and on, until he dies, miserable poor and broke.

As far as I'm aware, OJ Simpson has never paid a penny to Nicole Brown's family. The system is shit.

Well, you can hardly blame O.J. in that instance.  Every time he drives up to drop off a check to Fred Goldman, he just starts shooting at the Juice.  

Somebody smarter than me (not difficult to find) could just set up yet another bullshit "MAGA/Rudy Defense Fund" tomorrow.  Collect millions in a few weeks and have the funds actually bounced through a fintech core processor and paid around the ACH system to any number of victims of Trump or Rudy or Bannon or Miller or any of these other nutjobs who trade on fear to collect "legal funds" which they just use 95% of on their own bullshit.  By the time stupid donors get wise, the site is shut down and they can move on to the next grift.  The hard part has already been done.  It's proven to the tune of tens of billions at this point, that you can get stupid people to part with money they don't have to support people that don't give fuck one about them so long as you make them feel politically superior.  We're now just talking about financial routing details.  

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31,440

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A lot of you are more likely to end up on the wrong end of a civil suit than a criminal case.  And, although civil suits don't involve the awesome power of the government to fuck with you and punish you, the likelihood of ending up with an unjust result is a lot higher, especially from the defendant's perspective.

If a civil jury were to deliver a verdict constituting the major portion of your net worth, I think you might be rather glad that the judgment collection system isn't "more efficient" than it is.

According to Nicole Brown's own lawyer, OJ lives off of ERISA-protected pensions from the NFL and Hertz.  They apparently never expected much in the way of remuneration, but got some, and seem to be content with the result.  https://www.foxnews.com/us/oj-simpson-murders-25th-anniversary-civil-case-attorney-for-nicole-brown-family-my-lasting-memory-was-the-right-result-at-the-end

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South Austin

South Austin 52,457

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6 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I haven't yet decided if an umbrella policy is worth the expense, or if it's just a lawyer magnet, but in the one instance where I've been sued, it paid off w/o a hitch and I had zero fucking culpability.  At least my rates didn't go up.

So if anyone is looking to make some extra money, sue jimmyjazz.

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Chewbacca

Chewbacca 7,767

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11 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I haven't yet decided if an umbrella policy is worth the expense, or if it's just a lawyer magnet, but in the one instance where I've been sued, it paid off w/o a hitch and I had zero fucking culpability.  At least my rates didn't go up.

umbrellas are cheap.  Definitely worth it. 

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Gil Bang

Gil Bang 25,922

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1 hour ago, YGIFS said:

Well, you can hardly blame O.J. in that instance.  Every time he drives up to drop off a check to Fred Goldman, he just starts shooting at the Juice.  

Somebody smarter than me (not difficult to find) could just set up yet another bullshit "MAGA/Rudy Defense Fund" tomorrow.  Collect millions in a few weeks and have the funds actually bounced through a fintech core processor and paid around the ACH system to any number of victims of Trump or Rudy or Bannon or Miller or any of these other nutjobs who trade on fear to collect "legal funds" which they just use 95% of on their own bullshit.  By the time stupid donors get wise, the site is shut down and they can move on to the next grift.  The hard part has already been done.  It's proven to the tune of tens of billions at this point, that you can get stupid people to part with money they don't have to support people that don't give fuck one about them so long as you make them feel politically superior.  We're now just talking about financial routing details.  

I saw over the weekend that fucking Peter Navarro, the cunt, has raised almost 700,000 for his "legal defense", on a gofundme-type website.  Damn near every donation has a message mentioning jesus, which makes me relieved that I'm not religious. 

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Red Five

Red Five 40,847

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Could have lived out his remaining years as America's Former Mayor, with his rep and dignity still intact. But then, he wouldn't have been able to.... um..... why did he do it again? He's from New York. He should have been very familiar with how this goes.

 

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13,509

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29 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

 

 

Crazy that if a few events had worked out differently, this guy could have been President. Thank god we avoid that.

As for his current predicament I don’t see anyway he gets out of it. I suppose a few supporters will keep food on his table and a roof over his head but he’s a complete failure. 

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Chewbacca

Chewbacca 7,767

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On 1/27/2024 at 5:48 PM, Gatorubet said:

You just know that that drunk senile fuck is lying to the bankruptcy court about all his assets.   This should be fun. 

Of course he is.  What happened to the $6 million NYC apartment he owned?

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