Band of Brothers

[pops 6980]

On 10/9/2019 at 1:49 PM, Sbbruin said:

I've read books on the Battle of Bastogne, but that was the first time I had seen it portrayed.  It played out a little differently than I have visualized, but incredibly powerful.  Hitler sung for the fences, and these guys just held on as long as they had to.  Intense stuff.  2 more episodes, and part of me wants to wait because I don't want it to be over.

Wait until you get to why we fight. 

Good luck. 

[WhatTheBuck 28775]

It's MY DOG! 

[BabaYaga 15286]

12 hours ago, Lobo said:

We were.  We just benefited from a really big ocean on our Western Flank that gave us enough time to build the most lethal Naval force ever conceived.  From there, we were able to deliver more gross tonnage of bombing over an aggregate area not much larger than Tennessee (if you put together the tiny islands, plus Okinawa, Iwo Jima, and a few tiny strategic areas of mainland Japan) than was dropped over entire continents . 

That, and 6 divisions of the baddest Marines to ever walk on water.  

Navy was strong.  No doubt about that.  Carriers managed to survive (or were not targeted @ Pearl), then taking out four of theirs @ Midway vs. a loss of only 2 turned the tide.  What is often overlooked in both theaters of operation were the Liberty Ships.  These ships, along with the Higgins Boats manufactured in New Orleans are what facilitated all the landings and resupply operations from island to island.  From the Pacific islands to Normandy, those shallow-draft Higgins boats gave landing operations a MASSIVE advantage.  No Higgins.  No island hopping.  No Normandy.  Think about that.  

Quote

Eisenhower, a man not given to hyperbole, called Higgins “the man who won the war for us.” If Higgins hadn’t designed and built those boats, Eisenhower said, “we never could have landed over an open beach. The whole strategy of the war would have been different.”

Then the resupply capacity of the Liberty Ships over water, and the deuce and a half @ jeeps over land provided a logistical backbone for the entire operations to flourish.  

[CBT 1282]

I watch this once a year. Reading this thread makes me want to start again for the second time. Such an amazing series. 

[Sbbruin 21829]

10 hours ago, pops said:

Wait until you get to why we fight. 

Good luck. 

Started watching it Saturday night, but couldn't give it my full attention so stopped and will start over.

[Sbbruin 21829]

Looks like Apple is going to make a third installment of the BoB franchise.  

https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/11/20909847/apple-band-of-brothers-hbo-miniseries-tv-plus-streaming-original-studio

 

Quote

Apple has found the first TV series it’s going to produce in-house for its upcoming TV Plus streaming service: a third entry in Steven Spielberg, Tom Hanks, and Gary Goetzman’s Band of Brothers franchise.

The miniseries is expected to run north of eight hours, and will reportedly cost more than $200 million to make, according to Deadline. The new series is based on Donald L. Miller’s book, Masters of the Air: America’s Bomber Boys Who Fought The Air War Against Nazi Germany, and will focus on members of the Air Force during the Second World War. The first two installments in the Band of Brothers franchise, Band of Brothers and The Pacific, focused on the United States’ Army and Marine divisions.

 

[ImissWallyPryor 9046]

“The book was not as good as the movie” is not something that you hear very often, but I’ll say it regarding BOB. 

Ambrose wasn’t much of a writer, but he did a great job of bringing WWII to the attention of future generations. He was caught plagiarizing more than once, and one could accuse him of doing so to our own Texas Longhorn All-American Peppy Blount by stealing the title of his book We Band of Brothers. That book chronicles Peppy’s experiences as a WWII Air Apaches pilot in the Pacific Theater.  

TBH, Peppy was a better lawyer than he was an author. 

Edited October 14, 2019 by ImissWallyPryor

[oSuJeff97 3435]

On 10/11/2019 at 3:52 PM, DCA_HORN said:

Speaking of Webster, one of my favorite scenes is when he yells at the Germans marching west. Say hello to Ford and General fucking Motors. What were you thinking?

Yeah - also... "You came here on HORSES!.... "

 

On 10/11/2019 at 3:57 PM, AUinHsv said:

What were you thinking could be applied to Japan also. After the war the US interviewed the Japanese Army and Navy commanders and discovered that Japan really did not have much of an end game after Pearl Harbor. They had the huge misconception that the US would just sign some sort of peace treaty. If you are going to start a war you better have figured out what to do after the first shot.

Yeah the Japanese knew that they couldn't keep up with the U.S.'s industrial power, so I believe their "end game" was to cripple the U.S. Pacific Fleet and delay the U.S.'s ability to wage war in the Pacific for 18-24 months while they established a foothold across the entire western Pacific and then go for some kind of negotiated settlement.

What they didn't count on was the U.S. carriers not being at Pearl on the day of the attack, which significantly accelerated our ability to get on our feet and wage war in the Pacific.  The Battle of Midway happened in June 1942 and the Japanese were on their heels for the rest of the war.  Had those carriers been at Pearl, there's no way Midway happens and we very well might not have been able to make any kind of headway in the Pacific until mid-1943 or beyond.

And probably their other miscalculation was just how strong our industrial base really was.  They knew it was strong, but they probably didn't realize that it had the power to quickly churn out enough planes, tanks, boats, Jeeps, guns, ammo, etc., to dominate the battlefield on two sides of the world at the same time.

 

[AUinHsv 579]

3 hours ago, oSuJeff97 said:

Yeah - also... "You came here on HORSES!.... "

 

Yeah the Japanese knew that they couldn't keep up with the U.S.'s industrial power, so I believe their "end game" was to cripple the U.S. Pacific Fleet and delay the U.S.'s ability to wage war in the Pacific for 18-24 months while they established a foothold across the entire western Pacific and then go for some kind of negotiated settlement.

What they didn't count on was the U.S. carriers not being at Pearl on the day of the attack, which significantly accelerated our ability to get on our feet and wage war in the Pacific.  The Battle of Midway happened in June 1942 and the Japanese were on their heels for the rest of the war.  Had those carriers been at Pearl, there's no way Midway happens and we very well might not have been able to make any kind of headway in the Pacific until mid-1943 or beyond.

And probably their other miscalculation was just how strong our industrial base really was.  They knew it was strong, but they probably didn't realize that it had the power to quickly churn out enough planes, tanks, boats, Jeeps, guns, ammo, etc., to dominate the battlefield on two sides of the world at the same time.

 

Even with the carriers avoiding Pearl Harbor there were several estimates of how long the war would last - made by leaders of the military.  In 1942 a lot of them said the war would last until 1949 or so.  The Europe first decision meant almost no resources for the Pacific in 1942. Adm King stuck his neck out at one of the Allied high command meeting and got a guarantee of something like 20% of the war material and men committed to the Pacific - which was a huge increase. It took the Army until 1944 to realize that there was other places to fight except Europe and they discovered that the Navy had almost won the war by then.  You would think the US would have wanted to hit back against the country that pulled them into the war but there were a huge difference in bringing the war to the Pacific vs Europe. For Europe you staged in England and jumped across the channel to fight. For the Pacific you had to bring everything with you (thousands of miles) and then do it again and again. The logistics of the Pacific war were totally unknown until it started. One of the forgotten heroes of the Pacific was Adm Calhoun who headed the logistics and supply - basically he was responsible for getting everything from men and material to a battle.

jh

Edited October 14, 2019 by AUinHsv

[oSuJeff97 3435]

1 hour ago, AUinHsv said:

Even with the carriers avoiding Pearl Harbor there were several estimates of how long the war would last - made by leaders of the military.  In 1942 a lot of them said the war would last until 1949 or so.  The Europe first decision meant almost no resources for the Pacific in 1942. Adm King stuck his neck out at one of the Allied high command meeting and got a guarantee of something like 20% of the war material and men committed to the Pacific - which was a huge increase. It took the Army until 1944 to realize that there was other places to fight except Europe and they discovered that the Navy had almost won the war by then.  You would think the US would have wanted to hit back against the country that pulled them into the war but there were a huge difference in bringing the war to the Pacific vs Europe. For Europe you staged in England and jumped across the channel to fight. For the Pacific you had to bring everything with you (thousands of miles) and then do it again and again. The logistics of the Pacific war were totally unknown until it started. One of the forgotten heroes of the Pacific was Adm Calhoun who headed the logistics and supply - basically he was responsible for getting everything from men and material to a battle.

jh

Good stuff.

And the logistics work in both theaters of war was really incredible when you think about it. It's one thing to manufacture all of those planes, tanks, Jeeps, guns, bombs, small arms ammo, etc., in the States.... it's another thing to move and mobilize all of that stuff (plus hundreds of thousands of people and all of the stuff required to support THEM) on separate sides of the planet during a time when pretty much everything moved by boat.  Incredible.

[Buzzrock 14902]

How old do you think kids need to be to see this? Mine are 10 (boy) and 13 (girl). We’ve never let them watch anything more than PG-13.

[Deej 76752]

13 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

We’ve never let them watch anything more than PG-13.

That's not how you create future Surly members.

[TwiceHorn 31438]

5 hours ago, AUinHsv said:

Even with the carriers avoiding Pearl Harbor there were several estimates of how long the war would last - made by leaders of the military.  In 1942 a lot of them said the war would last until 1949 or so.  The Europe first decision meant almost no resources for the Pacific in 1942. Adm King stuck his neck out at one of the Allied high command meeting and got a guarantee of something like 20% of the war material and men committed to the Pacific - which was a huge increase. It took the Army until 1944 to realize that there was other places to fight except Europe and they discovered that the Navy had almost won the war by then.  You would think the US would have wanted to hit back against the country that pulled them into the war but there were a huge difference in bringing the war to the Pacific vs Europe. For Europe you staged in England and jumped across the channel to fight. For the Pacific you had to bring everything with you (thousands of miles) and then do it again and again. The logistics of the Pacific war were totally unknown until it started. One of the forgotten heroes of the Pacific was Adm Calhoun who headed the logistics and supply - basically he was responsible for getting everything from men and material to a battle.

jh

If you are interested in this from either an historical or business perspective, Beans, Bullets And Black Oil, by RADM Worrall Reed Carter is a surprisingly compelling read.  He was commander of Service Squadron 10, which ran Ulithi from 1944 to 1945.

Ulithi Atoll from 1944 to 1945 was the 8th wonder of the world.

[aggie08 21482]

12 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

How old do you think kids need to be to see this? Mine are 10 (boy) and 13 (girl). We’ve never let them watch anything more than PG-13.

I saw Saving Private Ryan when I was 13 and was able to grasp the magnitude and importance of the D-Day sacrifice, without getting bogged down by the blood/violence and who just said "fuck."

Granted, I grew up in a military family, but I tend to think that kids are usually more mature than we give them credit for. I think shows like this are different than letting them watch, say, John Wick. Kids quickly grasp on to the idea the these events actually happened, and will probably have some pretty damn poignant questions for you by the end.

There's a reason that they still show Saving Private Ryan completely unedited at 2 o'clock on a Sunday on basic cable, and parents don't complain.

[AUS-97HORN 11756]

14 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

How old do you think kids need to be to see this? Mine are 10 (boy) and 13 (girl). We’ve never let them watch anything more than PG-13.

for BOB there is 1 extremely brief nudity scene where you see tits when they are in Holland.

 

For pacific there is a much longer nudity love scene when they are in Australia, and its a decent min or so of nudity

[Dutch 4465]

13 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

How old do you think kids need to be to see this? Mine are 10 (boy) and 13 (girl). We’ve never let them watch anything more than PG-13.

It should be fine for the girl; as for the boy I'd say it would depend.  You obv know him better than a bunch of surly assholes. I have two nephews, nine and eleven.  One I'd have no problem letting him watch but not the other.  The "war gore" is no where near Private Ryan levels (the most is in the two episodes revolving around Bastogne), but there is some.  However, the profanity level is definitely R-rated (quite a few F-bombs in addition to a lot of the usual stuff they've probably heard in PG and PG-13 films).  So take that for what it's worth.

Then again, my best friend's dad let us watch "Hamburger Hill" when I was 8.  And when a Morman coworker asked "what's that HBO show you're always talking about" for a series to binge during convalescence from surgery, I told her "The Wire."  So there's that.

[Hate 20106]

On 10/15/2019 at 10:46 AM, AUS-97HORN said:

for BOB there is 1 extremely brief nudity scene where you see tits when they are in Holland.

 

For pacific there is a much longer nudity love scene when they are in Australia, and its a decent min or so of nudity

Basilone's wife's tits were fantastic.

[PRONG HORN 3133]

On 10/14/2019 at 8:19 PM, Buzzrock said:

How old do you think kids need to be to see this? Mine are 10 (boy) and 13 (girl). We’ve never let them watch anything more than PG-13.

 

Is this really true?  If so, I would say no way. 

It's the quality of the show that you should want to show them, not the fact that people died for a cause.  When they're old enough to appreciate the difference between good and bad screen art, then they're ready to see it. 

Never spoil good art to make a point, or show a perspective.  The perspective being "nazis are bad", "Americans died for a good cause".  You can use lesser art to do that.  So just show some other war stuff if you're teaching them something about History.  Save BOB for when the good art is what you want to show them.  

[Biff Tannen 45664]

10 hours ago, PRONG HORN said:

The perspective being "nazis are bad",

[Carl Spackler 3479]

On 10/15/2019 at 8:46 AM, AUS-97HORN said:

for BOB there is 1 extremely brief nudity scene where you see tits when they are in Holland.

 

There's also the scene when they're in Germany, Tom Hardy's character is banging a local girl, and Speirs bursts into the room looking for all the swag he has managed to pilfer.  He doesn't even give the girl a second glance.  All Speirs cares about is his loot.  Hilarious.

[Sbbruin 21829]

So I'm going to be pretty much "off the grid" next week in Mexico, so want to download a good watch.  Stil have the last 2 episodes of BoB, but was thinking "The Pacific."  Seems like mixed reviews here, but I think it will be worth it, yes?

 

Saw R/T gave it a 91%, so I say yes.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Sbbruin

[mbtex 683]

Pacific is good its just not the same format as BOB. 

[lateshow 1304]

54 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

So I'm going to be pretty much "off the grid" next week in Mexico, so want to download a good watch.  Stil have the last 2 episodes of BoB, but was thinking "The Pacific."  Seems like mixed reviews here, but I think it will be worth it, yes?

 

Saw R/T gave it a 91%, so I say yes.

It's really good. Just don't go in expecting BoB. I did and was let down. I've since rewatched it, and really appreciated it on it's own. 

[Carl Spackler 3479]

1 hour ago, lateshow said:

It's really good. Just don't go in expecting BoB. I did and was let down. I've since rewatched it, and really appreciated it on it's own. 

This.  Band of Brothers is better, but The Pacific is damned good -- definitely worth your time.

[Saint Tacky 1614]

4 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

So I'm going to be pretty much "off the grid" next week in Mexico, so want to download a good watch.  Stil have the last 2 episodes of BoB, but was thinking "The Pacific."  Seems like mixed reviews here, but I think it will be worth it, yes?

 

Saw R/T gave it a 91%, so I say yes.

I binged the Pacific again over last weekend.  I appreciate it more every time I see it.  As someone mentioned above it suffers next to BOB because of the format.  There's just not as much detail about the men, and I believe all but two of the primary characters were deceased when it was filmed.  Some of it may have also had to do with the type of warfare in the Pacific. It's raw and they don't romanticize or dilute it; but, once I sorted the characters out and did a little research on them myself, I really became invested in them and I like it just as much as BOB, but for entirely different reasons.

[RPM 26315]

Rami Malek first popped up on my radar watching The Pacific. His portrayal of Snafu was outstanding. It's worth watching for that character alone. But there's more individual performances and stories than just that. It also gives you a look at what was happening on the homefront. It's Hanks and Spielberg doing Hanks and Spielberg level work.

If you need more to watch, I highly recommend From The Earth to The Moon.

[Sbbruin 21829]

On 10/13/2019 at 10:24 PM, pops said:

Wait until you get to why we fight. 

Good luck. 

Fuck. Just watched it.  Glad we made the civilians bury the dead.  I went to Dachau.  Fucking haunting.

[The Ace of Aces 5175]

Was fortunate to sieve significant time with Dick Winters before he passed, his farm is a few miles away and I was work8mg on a media project with him.

That man is the kindest, most sincere human I’ve ever met.

The WWII generation wasn’t the greatest imo by any stretch, but it caught lightning in a bottle with an amazing core of young men who did extraordinary things amid their very ordinary lives. 

 

[Biff Tannen 45664]

On 10/19/2019 at 9:44 AM, The Ace of Aces said:

Was fortunate to sieve significant time with Dick Winters before he passed, his farm is a few miles away and I was work8mg on a media project with him.

That man is the kindest, most sincere human I’ve ever met.

The WWII generation wasn’t the greatest imo by any stretch, but it caught lightning in a bottle with an amazing core of young men who did extraordinary things amid their very ordinary lives. 

 

Well that's fucking awesome.

[WhatTheBuck 28775]

On October 18, 2019 at 11:47 AM, Sbbruin said:

So I'm going to be pretty much "off the grid" next week in Mexico, so want to download a good watch.  Stil have the last 2 episodes of BoB, but was thinking "The Pacific."  Seems like mixed reviews here, but I think it will be worth it, yes?

Saw R/T gave it a 91%, so I say yes.

If you go with The Pacific, I'd recommend downloading something else as a backup. I wasn't a fan. It's a lesser production in pretty much every respect. Maybe download the documentary series WWII in HD. I thought its telling of the story using actual footage was more compelling than the dramatized retelling in The Pacific. The latter apparently lacked the effects budget of BoB because the real thing exceeded the modern CGI. 

Have you seen Rome? That was only two seasons. You could probably fit that in. If you haven't seen it then I think that would be a great choice. Lots of nudity in that one, though, in case that's a concern. 

[Hate 20106]

I loved The Pacific.  I think it is unfortunate that it is always compared to BOB, but it's pretty damn good in it's own right.  If you had never seen BOB and then watched The Pacific, you would be blown away.  I think it did a great job depicting the brutality of the war in the Pacific Theater and how it affected the men that survived through it.  As brutal as Europe was, I can't imagine the hell of the island hopping campaign that it took to defeat the Japanese, but this series does as good a job as anything I've ever seen.  It's certainly worth a watch.  I just wish that Spielberg and Hanks would do a Vietnam and Korea mini series. 

[RPM 26315]

1 hour ago, Hate said:

I just wish that Spielberg and Hanks would do a Vietnam and Korea mini series. 

I would LOVE to see a Playtone Korea series.

[lateshow 1304]

14 hours ago, RPM said:

I would LOVE to see a Playtone Korea series.

Me too. The Korean War is tragically under represented. 

[Deej 76752]

The air war over Korea, with the introduction of jet fighters, is pretty interesting stuff.

[hayden_horn 11362]

18 hours ago, Hate said:

I loved The Pacific.  I think it is unfortunate that it is always compared to BOB, but it's pretty damn good in it's own right.  If you had never seen BOB and then watched The Pacific, you would be blown away.  I think it did a great job depicting the brutality of the war in the Pacific Theater and how it affected the men that survived through it.  As brutal as Europe was, I can't imagine the hell of the island hopping campaign that it took to defeat the Japanese, but this series does as good a job as anything I've ever seen.  It's certainly worth a watch.  I just wish that Spielberg and Hanks would do a Vietnam and Korea mini series. 

yeah, we celebrate operation overlord for the massive invasion force and coordination that it took, but those marines had to charge beach after beach in the pacific. granted, none of those amphibious invasions were the scale of overlord, but those landings had to really wear on those men.

[TwiceHorn 31438]

12 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

yeah, we celebrate operation overlord for the massive invasion force and coordination that it took, but those marines had to charge beach after beach in the pacific. granted, none of those amphibious invasions were the scale of overlord, but those landings had to really wear on those men.

It wasn't always just Marines, the Army was heavily involved in the larger ones.  And Iceberg (Okinawa) was larger by about 20% on invasion day than Overlord.  It also had four Army divisions and three Marine divisions.

The main thing I think that drives the difference between BoB and The Pacific is simply that we lack a unit history akin to that of Company E, 506 PIR, for any unit of the Pacific theater.  And for that we can thank Ambrose.  I have a sense, too, that the units in the Pacific didn't stay together quite as they did in Europe.  Certainly not the way the 506th was kept together.  I think the uniqueness of their training at the time fostered that.  They kept the Toccoa men together.

[Parliament 14237]

3 hours ago, lateshow said:

Me too. The Korean War is tragically under represented. 

Gimme a mini series covering the Chosin reservoir.

 

[Hank Scorpio 17729]

On 10/10/2019 at 11:05 AM, hayden_horn said:

so i have two boys, aged 12 and 11. we thought it was about time to watch band of brothers. it's a bit rough, but appropriate to some other stuff they've seen.

following that the asked about the pacific theater, so we naturally pivoted to the pacific.

fuck.

i had forgotten how much rougher those episodes were. i may have traumatized my sons. just a completely different way of telling the story of war, plus the pacific was far more psychotic than the european theater, because the japanese simply would not surrender and were so much more savage than the germans in combat. really wore on the marines in theater, and that's the story the pacific tells. shit, i forgot the part about the 

  Hide contents

woman with the baby with explosives around her waist. and also about the part where snafu is just plinking pebbles into the blown out brainpan of a rotting body. 

so, yeah. parent of the fucking year.

Show your kids Full Metal Jacket you pussy. 

[Iceman 2690]

15 minutes ago, Parliament said:

Gimme a mini series covering the Chosin reservoir.

 

The Frozen Chosin is never remembered fondly...

[hayden_horn 11362]

29 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

Show your kids Full Metal Jacket you pussy. 

I saw full metal jacket when i was 6. Lying behind the couch at my aunt's house at a family reunion. They were all drunk. I was learning the finer points of cinema. I didn't sleep right for weeks. 

[WhatTheBuck 28775]

7 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

yeah, we celebrate operation overlord for the massive invasion force and coordination that it took, but those marines had to charge beach after beach in the pacific. granted, none of those amphibious invasions were the scale of overlord, but those landings had to really wear on those men.

Yeah, it was grueling work. But it doesn't make for compelling TV. 

'We landed on an island full of entrenched Japanese soldiers determined to fight to the death. It was a grind and we lost a lot of men but we eventually achieved our objective. Next we landed on an island full of entrenched Japanese soldiers determined to fight to the death...'

[Dutch 4465]

15 hours ago, Parliament said:

Gimme a mini series covering the Chosin reservoir.

 

Not a miniseries but definitely a must-see.  Still available on Prime.

 

[Parliament 14237]

I've seen it, and it's glorious.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 hour ago, Parliament said:

I've seen it, and it's glorious.

Not sure glorious is the descriptor I'd use.  Riveting, horrendous, gut wrenching all seem more suited.

[oSuJeff97 3435]

On 10/22/2019 at 6:40 PM, TwiceHorn said:

The main thing I think that drives the difference between BoB and The Pacific is simply that we lack a unit history akin to that of Company E, 506 PIR, for any unit of the Pacific theater.  And for that we can thank Ambrose.  I have a sense, too, that the units in the Pacific didn't stay together quite as they did in Europe.  Certainly not the way the 506th was kept together.  I think the uniqueness of their training at the time fostered that.  They kept the Toccoa men together.

This.

The Pacific isn't as good as BoB, in terms of it being a cohesive piece of storytelling about a specific unit's journey through the War.... but if you like BoB, the Pacific is worth watching for sure... just know going in that the structure is different and don't expect "BoB in the Pacific."

Edited October 24, 2019 by oSuJeff97

[Chewbacca 7766]

On 10/14/2019 at 7:19 PM, Buzzrock said:

How old do you think kids need to be to see this? Mine are 10 (boy) and 13 (girl). We’ve never let them watch anything more than PG-13.

Mine both watched it around that time.  But then again, I just took them to see Zombieland 2 last weekend (at 12 and 16), so I might not be the best person to ask.

[Chewbacca 7766]

On 10/15/2019 at 9:53 AM, Dutch said:

And when a Morman coworker asked "what's that HBO show you're always talking about" for a series to binge during convalescence from surgery, I told her "The Wire."  So there's that.

So did she like it, or love it?

[Dutch 4465]

32 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

So did she like it, or love it?

I think her exact words were "Yeah, there was a lot of curse words."  She didn't make it through ep 2.  Her loss.  

[Hate 20106]

This thread made me go back and re-watch The Pacific.  Damn it's good.  If it doesn't get dusty for you for pretty much the whole last episode, then I don't want to know you. 

[Parliament 14237]

On 10/15/2019 at 10:53 AM, Dutch said:

 

Then again, my best friend's dad let us watch "Hamburger Hill" when I was 8.  And when a Morman coworker asked "what's that HBO show you're always talking about" for a series to binge during convalescence from surgery, I told her "The Wire."  So there's that.

I haven't confirmed, but I was told once our Military has a larger share of Mormon folks than the population in general.  Their "call to service" includes joining the Military.  Mormons aren't amish.