Band of Brothers

[lateshow 1304]

2 hours ago, Parliament said:

I haven't confirmed, but I was told once our Military has a larger share of Mormon folks than the population in general.  Their "call to service" includes joining the Military.  Mormons aren't amish.

Or Quakers. 

[Macanudo 12978]

9 hours ago, Parliament said:

I haven't confirmed, but I was told once our Military has a larger share of Mormon folks than the population in general.  Their "call to service" includes joining the Military.  Mormons aren't amish.

I'd imagine getting shot at and facing death from above is better than dealing with nagging wives.

[WhatTheBuck 28781]

On November 1, 2019 at 11:24 AM, lateshow said:

Or Quakers. 

Or Christians. 

[RPM 26321]

HBO2 running The Pacific today.

[Biff Tannen 45685]

Started reading Marlarkey's book two nights ago and it is fantastic.  Basically like reading the BoB script with corrections and backstory on Malarkey's life.  Almost halfway through already, but could easily read the full thing in a day if I wanted to.

[RPM 26321]

Would love to read what he thought about Sobel.

[Parliament 14260]

11 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Started reading Marlarkey's book two nights ago and it is fantastic.  Basically like reading the BoB script with corrections and backstory on Malarkey's life.  Almost halfway through already, but could easily read the full thing in a day if I wanted to.

Legend has it, the original BoB guys who were used as technical advisors were appalled by the amount of cussing in the script.  They insisted they didn't talk that way.  Does he discuss that at all?

[Biff Tannen 45685]

11 minutes ago, Parliament said:

Legend has it, the original BoB guys who were used as technical advisors were appalled by the amount of cussing in the script.  They insisted they didn't talk that way.  Does he discuss that at all?

Has not mentioned it yet.  I just got through the storming of Braecourt Manor right after D-Day, so still a fair bit to go.  

[lateshow 1304]

2 hours ago, Parliament said:

Legend has it, the original BoB guys who were used as technical advisors were appalled by the amount of cussing in the script.  They insisted they didn't talk that way.  Does he discuss that at all?

Hanging around my grandfather and his pals that were close to those guys' age, he was in Korea not WW2, I'd believe the language on BoB was pretty accurate. 

[Chad Fuck 17681]

As has been noted upthread, BoB and The Pacific are apples v. oranges.  The nature of the war in Europe was completely different than the Pacific.  But on a basic, story telling level, you just can't do in the Pacific what was done for BoB.  

BoB covers one unit, from approximately June '44 until May '45 (leaving out training, transitioning home - so give or take a month on either end).  You can use that vehicle to tell a broad story of the entire European war (sans Africa) in one unit.  That's what Ambrose was originally going for in the book, and what appealed to Hanks about doing it as an episodic screenplay.

The Pacific war has no analogous situation.  First, we had boots on the ground fighting from the first until the last day of the war Philippines to Okinawa.  That's 3.5 years (Pacific) vs. 10 months (BoB).  That alone changes the scope of the story immensely.  Second, there was no single unit that fought that entire time.  Moreover, the Pacific war was so vast in its' scope - Initial defeats in Philippines, Wake, etc - on to the Island Campaigns, China, Aleutians, etc., there's just no way to do that with a coherent narrative unless you're doing a 20 part series and even then it may not be possible.  So the best they could do was take three of the best personal stories they could and tie them together to tell the largest swathe of the story they could.  I think they did a masterful job. 

Can't wait to see their next project.  

Edited November 14, 2019 by Chad Fuck

[txhorns 2409]

11 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

As has been noted upthread, BoB and The Pacific are apples v. oranges.  The nature of the war in Europe was completely different than the Pacific.  But on a basic, story telling level, you just can't do in the Pacific what was done for BoB.  

BoB covers one unit, from approximately June '44 until May '45 (leaving out training, transitioning home - so give or take a month on either end).  You can use that vehicle to tell a broad story of the entire European war (sans Africa) in one unit.  That's what Ambrose was originally going for in the book, and what appealed to Hanks about doing it as an episodic screenplay.

The Pacific was has no analogous situation.  First, we had boots on the ground fighting from the first until the last day of the war Philippines to Okinawa.  That's 3.5 years (Pacific) vs. 10 months (BoB).  That alone changes the scope of the story immensely.  Second, there was no single unit that fought that entire time.  Moreover, the Pacific war was so vast in its' scope - Initial defeats in Philippines, Wake, etc - on to the Island Campaigns, China, Aleutians, etc., there's just no way to do that with a coherent narrative unless you're doing a 20 part series and even then it may not be possible.  So the best they could do was take three of the best personal stories they could and tie them together to tell the largest swathe of the story they could.  I think they did a masterful job. 

Can't wait to see their next project.  

This about perfectly sums up the difference in the two.

[DougO 5248]

I just thought the personal stories they chose kinda sucked.

[Chad Fuck 17681]

8 hours ago, DougO said:

I just thought the personal stories they chose kinda sucked.

[TwiceHorn 31471]

20 hours ago, Chad Fuck said:

As has been noted upthread, BoB and The Pacific are apples v. oranges.  The nature of the war in Europe was completely different than the Pacific.  But on a basic, story telling level, you just can't do in the Pacific what was done for BoB.  

BoB covers one unit, from approximately June '44 until May '45 (leaving out training, transitioning home - so give or take a month on either end).  You can use that vehicle to tell a broad story of the entire European war (sans Africa) in one unit.  That's what Ambrose was originally going for in the book, and what appealed to Hanks about doing it as an episodic screenplay.

The Pacific war has no analogous situation.  First, we had boots on the ground fighting from the first until the last day of the war Philippines to Okinawa.  That's 3.5 years (Pacific) vs. 10 months (BoB).  That alone changes the scope of the story immensely.  Second, there was no single unit that fought that entire time.  Moreover, the Pacific war was so vast in its' scope - Initial defeats in Philippines, Wake, etc - on to the Island Campaigns, China, Aleutians, etc., there's just no way to do that with a coherent narrative unless you're doing a 20 part series and even then it may not be possible.  So the best they could do was take three of the best personal stories they could and tie them together to tell the largest swathe of the story they could.  I think they did a masterful job. 

Can't wait to see their next project.  

Excellent point about the timeline.  An obvious point that hadn't occurred to me.

I had been looking around to see if replacement policy was different in the Marine Corps or in the PTO to possibly explain the lack of "unit stories" out there.  But I think the simple explanation is that it went on so long that units just didn't survive "intact."

I know that in the Navy, vessels were shifted around among the 3rd, 5th, and 7th Fleets under various admirals and adjunct at times to MacArthur and with areas of responsibility thousands of miles apart.  I think Marines, being loosely associated with fleets, tended to do a bit of the same shifting around.

I think BoB may fall into that category of "sociological" stories like The Wire and early GoT.  Where it's the unit that's really the main character, not Winters, or Sobel, or Nixon or whomever.  And for a variety of reasons that you hit upon, it wasn't possible to do that with The Pacific.

Edited November 15, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[usmc0331horn 953]

Pretty sure I've watched BoB at least 30 times all the way through and The Pacific maybe 3 or 4. It's just less cohesive and smooth as BoB but definitely somewhat more realistic to how war really is as it can be.

[Chad Fuck 17681]

25 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Excellent point about the timeline.  An obvious point that hadn't occurred to me.

I had been looking around to see if replacement policy was different in the Marine Corps or in the PTO to possibly explain the lack of "unit stories" out there.  But I think the simple explanation is that it went on so long that units just didn't survive "intact."

I know that in the Navy, vessels were shifted around among the 3rd, 5th, and 7th Fleets under various admirals and adjunct at times to MacArthur and with areas of responsibility thousands of miles apart.  I think Marines, being loosely associated with fleets, tended to do a bit of the same shifting around.

I think BoB may fall into that category of "sociological" stories like The Wire and early GoT.  Where it's the unit that's really the main character, not Winters, or Sobel, or Nixon or whomever.  And for a variety of reasons that you hit upon, it wasn't possible to do that with The Pacific.

I recall reading an interview with Ambrose (he may've been at a reunion or was doing interviews of Easy Co., something like that) and he had the realization "these guys were there from Day 1 to V-E Day."  He knew that was a unique thing.  

Another thing about Europe/Pacific is that basically for the U.S. story, there were two vectors:  Normandy to Berlin; North Africa/Italy to Berlin.  Both on more or less the same time line. 

The Pacific you have the retreats mentioned (Phillipines, Dutch East Indies, Wake), then you have several vectors to Tokyo.  Some overlap in time, some don't.  Some leapfrog each other, etc.  It's a messier story to tell from a timeline/geographic perspective.

@DougO:  Regarding the personal stories, Pacific may not have done the best job of bringing those out.  The fact that I'd read the background on them probably colors my perception.  "Helmet for My Pillow" is a well written narrative but it's definitely of it's time without the perspective that Sledge's "With the Old Breed" has.  I've said it many times, and I'll say it again:  "With the Old Breed" is the best first person account of the brutality of war I've ever read.  Certainly it's the best Pacific memoir by far.  Because he kept contemporaneous notes, but didn't compile them until he had a lifetime of reading and writing experience, it's superlative.  

Edited November 15, 2019 by Chad Fuck

[usmc0331horn 953]

9 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

I recall reading an interview with Ambrose (he may've been at a reunion or was doing interviews of Easy Co., something like that) and he had the realization "these guys were there from Day 1 to V-E Day."  He knew that was a unique thing.  

Another thing about Europe/Pacific is that basically for the U.S. story, there were two vectors:  Normandy to Berlin; North Africa/Italy to Berlin.  Both on more or less the same time line. 

The Pacific you have the retreats mentioned (Phillipines, Dutch East Indies, Wake), then you have several vectors to Tokyo.  Some overlap in time, some don't.  Some leapfrog each other, etc.  It's a messier story to tell from a timeline/geographic perspective.

@DougO:  Regarding the personal stories, Pacific may not have done the best job of bringing those out.  The fact that I'd read the background on them probably colors my perception.  "Helmet for My Pillow" is a well written narrative but it's definitely of it's time without the perspective that Sledge's "With the Old Breed" has.  I've said it many times, and I'll say it again:  "With the Old Breed" is the best first person account of the brutality of war I've ever read.  Certainly it's the best Pacific memoir by far.  Because he kept contemporaneous notes, but didn't compile them until he had a lifetime of reading and writing experience, it's superlative.  

Same with me on the Pacific. I read all the books and have actually taught Sledge's book in my US history class. It's such a great memoir on war and specifically that war. I just felt that the Pacific lacked the cohesion of BoB and the acting was sometimes suspect. God, did I love how the portrayed Basilone's MoH though. We had to recreate that in Bootcamp once. He did it all fucking night under continuous enemy fire and a scalded arm. So good.

[Chad Fuck 17681]

Bottom line, BoB is an overall more enjoyable entertainment experience for me because the narrative/character/timeline structure is tighter.

Pacific is a different kind of story, but I still enjoy it.  Just a little less than BoB.

[Chad Fuck 17681]

6 hours ago, usmc0331horn said:

Same with me on the Pacific. I read all the books and have actually taught Sledge's book in my US history class. It's such a great memoir on war and specifically that war. I just felt that the Pacific lacked the cohesion of BoB and the acting was sometimes suspect. God, did I love how the portrayed Basilone's MoH though. We had to recreate that in Bootcamp once. He did it all fucking night under continuous enemy fire and a scalded arm. So good.

What grade are you teaching US History?  There is some tough stuff in that book.

 

[usmc0331horn 953]

23 hours ago, Chad Fuck said:

What grade are you teaching US History?  There is some tough stuff in that book.

 

I taught it when I was teaching college survey courses. I don't teach it in my high school classes. I let them read it though if they want to.

[Iceman 2710]

On 11/14/2019 at 10:05 AM, lateshow said:

Hanging around my grandfather and his pals that were close to those guys' age, he was in Korea not WW2, I'd believe the language on BoB was pretty accurate. 

This.

My WWII vet grandfather cussed like a motherfucker.  I think it comes down to the individual.

Besides that, profanity is hardly an indictment of character...given the circumstances.

Edited November 16, 2019 by Iceman

[Biff Tannen 45685]

Just a bump because the film score just came on and it's so badass.  RIP Michael Kamen.

[Parliament 14260]

This.
My WWII vet grandfather cussed like a motherfucker.  I think it comes down to the individual.
Besides that, profanity is hardly an indictment of character...given the circumstances.

Hey, I agree 100%.

Regarding the above post of letting young kids read heavy stuff like Sledge's book. Or watching movies like Saving Private Ryan and such. If they're mature, and you're there with them, it's a good thing for them to see it. War is hell and the sooner they know it, the better.

[Brisketexan 105139]

Have had a shitty few weeks. The boy remains really sick.

So I skipped dinner and am getting whiskey drunk while we watch episode 8, The Last Patrol. Episode 9, Why We Fight, is next. If I have another couple of scotches, I don’t know how well I’ll handle it.

I really want my kid to be better.

Fuck.

[Brisketexan 105139]

Why we Fight.

I end up in tears, angry, about to puke. Every damned time.

Fuck.

[Scooter Monzingo 821]

On 11/14/2019 at 2:01 PM, Chad Fuck said:

As has been noted upthread, BoB and The Pacific are apples v. oranges.  The nature of the war in Europe was completely different than the Pacific.  But on a basic, story telling level, you just can't do in the Pacific what was done for BoB.  

BoB covers one unit, from approximately June '44 until May '45 (leaving out training, transitioning home - so give or take a month on either end).  You can use that vehicle to tell a broad story of the entire European war (sans Africa) in one unit.  That's what Ambrose was originally going for in the book, and what appealed to Hanks about doing it as an episodic screenplay.

The Pacific war has no analogous situation.  First, we had boots on the ground fighting from the first until the last day of the war Philippines to Okinawa.  That's 3.5 years (Pacific) vs. 10 months (BoB).  That alone changes the scope of the story immensely.  Second, there was no single unit that fought that entire time.  Moreover, the Pacific war was so vast in its' scope - Initial defeats in Philippines, Wake, etc - on to the Island Campaigns, China, Aleutians, etc., there's just no way to do that with a coherent narrative unless you're doing a 20 part series and even then it may not be possible.  So the best they could do was take three of the best personal stories they could and tie them together to tell the largest swathe of the story they could.  I think they did a masterful job. 

Can't wait to see their next project.  

That was a really good explanation of the two projects. 

Edited December 14, 2019 by Scooter Monzingo

[Knoxtnhorn 5976]

I started BOB with my 13 year-old last week.  Got all of 60 seconds in before I had to pause it and leave the room. Seeing and hearing the real vets speak, gets me every time.  And GD if I'm not thinking about the baseball field in Ep 9(?) As I type.

On a related note, my grandfather fought in the PTO.  Not only did I never hear him cuss, I don't even recall him raising his voice...ever.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

17 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Have had a shitty few weeks. The boy remains really sick.
 If I have another couple of scotches, I don’t know how well I’ll handle it.


 

Switch to bourbon.  Sorry about your son, hate seeing kids get sick. The wifes grandmother upon seeing our first born laying on the wifes chest says, Darlin I'm so happy for you. You know that from here on out you'll only be as happy as your saddest, sickest or depressed child....

[Sbbruin 21853]

HBO running BoB today.  And my company gave us the day off.  Guess I have my day planned.

[Guest Lobo]

28 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

HBO running BoB today.  And my company gave us the day off.  Guess I have my day planned.

So would you say your company is taking it "Easy" today?  

[Parliament 14260]

I wanna work for Lt. Spiers someday.

[Sbbruin 21853]

“Bastogne” just started.  My favorite episode.

[Hate 20108]

The Breaking Point is mine. Just phenomenal.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Disappointed that Amazon prime no longer has BoB on streaming, tried looking for it a week or 2 ago

[RPM 26321]

37 minutes ago, Hate said:

The Breaking Point is mine. Just phenomenal.

I'm watching the West Coast feed. Just winding up Carentan. I'll have to watch the rest on demand tonight at work.

[Frank The Tank 1497]

4 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Disappointed that Amazon prime no longer has BoB on streaming, tried looking for it a week or 2 ago

Likely it's now exclusively on HBOMax.

[Macanudo 12978]

1 minute ago, RPM said:

I'm watching the West Coast feed. Just winding up Carentan. I'll have to watch the rest on demand tonight at work.

Me too.   Had to pause for a call but Winter is talking to Blithe.   Blithe's story line is about the only thing from BoB that pisses me off.    

[RPM 26321]

Tom Hanks should get the Medal of Freedom for this and The Pacific.

[RamjetFDO 10575]

24 minutes ago, RPM said:

Tom Hanks should get the Medal of Freedom for this and The Pacific.

 

Awarded November 2016.

[RPM 26321]

Just now, RamjetFDO said:

 

Awarded November 2016.

Well I was right again!

Seriously I looked before I posted that and somehow missed it.

[oSuJeff97 3435]

1 hour ago, Hate said:

The Breaking Point is mine. Just phenomenal.

Woof. Yeah it's great, especially when Spears takes over, but man... when you watch the series for the first time, Bastogne/Breaking Point back-to-back was a rough watch.

I've gone back-and-forth over the years on my favorite episode, but I always come back to "Replacements" and "The Last Patrol."  There's something about the humanity of both of those episodes that I just love.... I think also, for whatever reason, I really identified with Webster and he was a key player in both of those episodes.

[mininghorn88 2290]

BoB is an all-time favorite of mine. When Spiers is running through the village is an incredible scene.  He has zero cares.  I am an avid collector of WII memorabilia and have talked to many veterans.  Almost every one of them downplayed their service and were so thoughtful and humble.  My great-uncle was a lifer in the military joining in 1937 and retiring in 1962.  He was a combat medic during WWII serving in the 103rd ID.  He only talked about the "good times" or the funny events he experienced during the War.  Aside from getting the usual decorations during the War he was also awarded the Bronze Star with a "V" for valor.  When I asked him about the award he simply said that he helped to "liberate" some US GI's that had been taken prisoner.  He never would say how and I did not press it.  Upon his death and while attending his funeral (I was presented his flag) another family member that also served during the War was talking about my g-uncle's service and gave a high level explanation on how he was awarded the Bronze Star.  Medics are allowed to carry weapons but sacrifice their Geneva Convention protection if they use them in an offensive manner.  According to the family member my g-uncle had a firearm with him.  Apparently he took care of the German soldiers somehow and freed the soldiers.

My g-uncle was a very kind and gentle man.  The closest story that he ever told about this event was that he had several German soldiers surrender to him and all that he was carrying was a hypodermic needle.  Additionally he had a lot of Nazi items that he brought back with him.  He was always quick to say that he came by them honestly.  My take away is that combat can/will make you do things that may be out-of-character.  All in all those guys were badasses.

Top Row with Medic Helmet

In a captured half-track

Danube River; he is on the right

Uncle holding a Nazi flag

The flag today at my house

[Hate 20108]

That’s awesome, but you probably shouldn’t fly that on your garage.

[lateshow 1304]

True American Badass was your uncle. 

[mininghorn88 2290]

7 minutes ago, Hate said:

That’s awesome, but you probably shouldn’t fly that on your garage.

I live on a private road!  No, I do not have it on display.  I have several Nazi flags, pennants, and banners in my collection.  This was hung for photo taking purposes only.

[oSuJeff97 3435]

1 hour ago, Hate said:

That’s awesome, but you probably shouldn’t fly that on your garage.

LOL was gonna say... If I drove by a house that had a Nazi flag hanging over the garage door like that I would be.... concerned....

[Sbbruin 21853]

3 hours ago, Hate said:

The Breaking Point is mine. Just phenomenal.

Yeah, I stand corrected.  That was intense.  I wanted to fucking strangle Lt Dike myself.

[mininghorn88 2290]

35 minutes ago, oSuJeff97 said:

LOL was gonna say... If I drove by a house that had a Nazi flag hanging over the garage door like that I would be.... concerned....

Details in the pic.  Clothespins in use!

Will throw up a disclaimer for future posting of anything that may be of question!!

[Parliament 14260]

2 hours ago, Hate said:

That’s awesome, but you probably shouldn’t fly that on your garage.

It's loot.  Any Karen who's offended by that can take a hike.

ETA

I have a Luger that's been sold I don't know how many times since the original owner died at the hands of America.  I have no idea how it went down, but I hope it was pried out of the hand of a Prussian General by an illiterate hick from West Virgiana.  Fuck you, Nazi fuck.

I have a friend whose grandfather was a ball turret gunner.  Somebody interviewed him in the 1960's and I read the 15 page story.  His first flight was in March 1944, and he was shot down in May.  Quote: "I knew we were in trouble when I saw the pilots run by me with parachutes."  He was sheltered by the French Resistance, and made it to the American lines in July or so.  Before he passed away in the 1980's, he traveled back to that French village, to a hero's welcome.  People freed from the iron boot of oppression never forget.

Edited November 12, 2020 by Parliament

[Sbbruin 21853]

“Why We Fight” is gut wrenching.