Surly Dad Thread

[Al_4_ISU 12477]

14 hours ago, Celery Man said:

So last night, sitting on the couch, 2.5 year old says “I hurt my stomach” and then vomits soy milk and apples all over me. Pretty sure it was from some cookie decorating that went sideways and she just ate way too much buttercream. Anyways, yucky - strip clothes, start laundry, clean couch, scoop vomit off the floor, hit the floor with the steam mop, notice some piles of dust on the floor that indicate the Roborock is somehow jammed and file that away for later because it is bathtime.

execute bathtime, get kiddo clean and ready for bed, put her down, go downstairs to remove all the hair and Christmas ornament hooks from the robot vacuum, clean up the downstairs, empty the dishwasher, knock the next thing off of my “before the baby” list which is to assemble the bike that the toddler is getting for Christmas. Check the kid on the monitor and she has definitely thrown up. Strip the sheets strip the toddler start the laundry get the bath running clean the toddler again, remake the bed get the toddler down again, think about how I still could watch an episode of the office or something before I really need to pass out and then wife says her water broke

  Reveal hidden contents

I am so tired right now

Congrats man!

[next2naus 439]

On 11/29/2023 at 8:05 PM, Celery Man said:

I paused to decide if it was homophobic or not but I don’t think it is.

Are you a straight dad who knits but also associates knitting with being gay?

[next2naus 439]

Congrats @ Celery

 

also: why Soy milk? is the 2.5YO allergic to Dairy Milk or Lactose Intolerant? 

[Celery Man 20996]

29 minutes ago, next2naus said:

Are you a straight dad who knits but also associates knitting with being gay?

I’m a born in the ‘80s cis straight male knitter who is aware of the gendrification of knitting as a hobby and is joking about that. I don’t personally associate knitting with being gay and am unworried about the association for me. I was a knitter before I was a dad.

 

Quote

also: why Soy milk? is the 2.5YO allergic to Dairy Milk or Lactose Intolerant

Mom chose soy milk and it’s not a thing I’ve chosen to worry about or argue about. I think I remember googling enough to decide that there was no problem with it. There’s no allergy and I keep 2% around for baking and occasionally my own cereal.

[Brisketexan 105275]

Sigh. And fuck. And shit.
Continuing saga of adult daughter at home and struggling to figure her shit out. Incredible tension and friction, and as of now, the family is spinning apart.
Counseling session on Sunday was a disaster. Daughter is now afraid of mom. I made the mistake of telling mom this, who now feels hated and worthless (seriously…I fucked WAY up, bigly and badly…like, one of my worst of all time). They already weren’t talking. I expect it’s about to get much, much worse.
Daughter wrestling with her shit, and she’s really hard to parent right now.
And now mom feels worthless and unloved and unlovable, a failure as a parent because she’s a bad person.
And fun fact, the boy comes home in less than 48 hours, and he’ll be walking directly into this storm.
As for me? I’m visiting with the counselor solo tomorrow, to see if there’s anything I can do to hold shit together. I’m not optimistic. This is going to be a rough as shit holiday.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4977]

This too shall pass. All y'all can do is offer her love and support. Prayers for you and your family. 

[hookem2010 2625]

7 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Sigh. And fuck. And shit.
Continuing saga of adult daughter at home and struggling to figure her shit out. Incredible tension and friction, and as of now, the family is spinning apart.
Counseling session on Sunday was a disaster. Daughter is now afraid of mom. I made the mistake of telling mom this, who now feels hated and worthless (seriously…I fucked WAY up, bigly and badly…like, one of my worst of all time). They already weren’t talking. I expect it’s about to get much, much worse.
Daughter wrestling with her shit, and she’s really hard to parent right now.
And now mom feels worthless and unloved and unlovable, a failure as a parent because she’s a bad person.
And fun fact, the boy comes home in less than 48 hours, and he’ll be walking directly into this storm.
As for me? I’m visiting with the counselor solo tomorrow, to see if there’s anything I can do to hold shit together. I’m not optimistic. This is going to be a rough as shit holiday.

Good luck, man. Sometimes, the frustration, fatigue and occasional boredom that comes with raising a toddler is really exhausting. The emotional toll dealing with a teen/young adult though sounds like a whole different level.

Our 18 month-old is becoming a lot more fun. The words are still coming very slowly, but he is at least attempting to communicate what he wants rather than immediately throwing a fit, and playtime is waaaay more fun than when he was younger. He's also made it through 3 straight weeks of daycare without getting sick, a new personal record!

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4977]

A toddler? Exhausting? Lol

[NoName 16369]

10 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

A toddler? Exhausting? Lol

hey, when you only have 1 you think that's exhausting.

adding a newborn + a <2 year old - that's a whole new level

[Brisketexan 105275]

And....neither daughter nor wife are speaking to me.  Or to each other.  Not a word was uttered in the house this morning.

Shit blew up on Sunday because the wife went off in counseling, and said some shit that was hurtful to daughter.  Wife was being honest and truthful, and she was also being a bit protective of me.  But it was like tossing a grenade in the room, and since that moment, we've been dealing with debris.  Wife knew she fucked up.  She apologized to daughter, she apologized to me.  And while I was frustrated with how it all went down, I wasn't mad at her - I understand.

But then I told her that our daughter is afraid of her - I had a visit with my dad last night, who had a dinner with my daughter on Sunday, and she shared that with him.  He shared it with me, and asked me not to share it, because it would come back to him.  But I was stupid, and thought I knew best, so I shared it.  Huge mistake.  Wife already had a difficult relationship with my dad, now she says he thinks she's a shitty parent, in fact, everyone in the family does.  She dedicated her life to parenting her kids, and now they are afraid of her.  And they're not alone.  She feels self-conscious about having a reputation for being blunt and unlikeable, and if her own kids now feel that way, it must be true.

So now daughter is afraid to talk to mom, and probably afraid to talk to me.  Neither of them want to talk to me.  Maybe first priority is doing something to patch their relationship, fuck if I know.  I really don't even know where to begin.  Meanwhile, there's zero space for me to feel a single goddamned thing - and that's okay, I'll deal with shit later.  I'll take this one for the team, it's what dads do.  And that fact pisses my wife off as well -- you don't take enough care of yourself, etc. etc.  Well, no shit I don't.  I can't.  I have other priorities: y'all.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Brisketexan

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4977]

19 minutes ago, NoName said:

hey, when you only have 1 you think that's exhausting.

adding a newborn + a <2 year old - that's a whole new level

Going from one to two is a cakewalk. 

[tbone_ 14147]

To brisket - Stay engaged with your daughter. Even if she doesn’t want to talk. Don’t quit. Ever. She needs you.

Mom needs to grow up, swallow her shit, and be the grown up parent and do the same thing. Which is far easier for me to type than it is to make happen. But that’s what needs to happen.

Being resentful is just like drinking poison and hoping someone else gets sick. It never works. Everyone has to learn to ignore their resentment and treat each other with love. Because that’s what people who love each other do. That’s the only thing that works.

Good luck man.

[Jerry Callo 8720]

Brisket - you are not going to fix the relationship between your wife and daughter.  The more you try the worse it will be.  Counselling it a great idea and let the counselor take the heat and do the heavily lifting.  Listen to wife and daugther, acknowledge feelings, and STFU.

Moms and daughters have relationships that dads can't begin to understand.

[next2naus 439]

Brisket... why is she afraid of mom...what does she think is going to happen? 

[Brisketexan 105275]

Just now, next2naus said:

Brisket... why is she afraid of mom...what does she think is going to happen? 

Daughter doesn't deal well with emotional conflict.  Mom has....some sharp edges.  Mom says things that hurt her.  Mom isn't WRONG about those things, but she could find better and more productive ways to say them.  So, at present, we have:

Daughter: an emotional wreck, figuring her shit out (poorly, but slowly improving).  Very sensitive, in real pain and depression about her situation (stuck, not sure how to start "her life").

Mom: frustrated that daughter won't take our help, shuts us out, and is not transparent with us about what she's doing or what her goals are.  Mom voices that frustration in plain terms.  Which hurts emotional daughter, so she shuts down, out of fear.  And now, mom heard in plain terms that "your daughter is afraid of you."  So, now mom is shattered.  Her own child is afraid of her.  And she also thinks that I'm angry with her (I'm not.  I'm sad).

Emotionally fragile and lost daughter, retreating into fear.  Shattered mother, who feels like a failure across the board.  And dad utterly unable to do a goddamned thing to actually help either one -- it seems I mostly make things worse.  And all I want to do is help and fix.  I want to do it more than I've wanted to do anything in my entire life.  And it seems that I flat-out can't.

Oh, and yeah, I was and am angry with my daughter, because she is angry WITH ME.  She wants to do something self-indulgent, and I said no.  After all we've done, the unwavering support we're giving her even now.....she has the nerve to be angry with us?  But I don't have any space for that anger right now.  That can wait.  We have more immediate problems to deal with.

[Brisketexan 105275]

Update on the super-fun times for dad front:

Nobody is talking to anybody.  Seriously, in the past 48 hours, I have exchanged exactly two spoken words with my wife and daughter collectively.  "Hello" to my wife, "Hi" back.  Nothing with my daughter.  Some business-like communication with each via text message.  That's it.

Last night, on the way home, I got two nice greeting cards (daughter and wife both love cards).  Wrote lengthy messages to each -- about how hard shit is right now, I know, and while we don't have a magic wand to make it all better, I love you, and I'm not going anywhere.  I was hoping to at least get a crack in the wall.  NOPE.

Business like texts with my wife this morning.  Best I got was "thank you for your card.  I don't have much to say otherwise."  I responded that she can talk to me, that I hear her and understand....all the right things.  I then suggested that she talk to our counselor.  Reply consisted of "No thanks."  So that's SUPER helpful.  And yeah....now I'm beginning to get pissed.  I don't handle the fucking silent treatment well, and everyone in our house knows it.  I'm playing it calm, and trying to make space, and offer gentle direction to places where they can get some help.....but I'm apparently the fucking enemy now.

Meanwhile, the boy is inbound from overseas.  He messaged us to let us know he was on his flight, mom's response was "woohoo!"  Not sure what the fuck that was about, as he's about to walk into a fucking minefield.  Fucking Merry Christmas to all.

And, you know, it's not like I'm dealing with any stresses at the office or anything, what with year-end, difficult clients, all that shit.

[NoName 16369]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Update on the super-fun times for dad front:

Nobody is talking to anybody.  Seriously, in the past 48 hours, I have exchanged exactly two spoken words with my wife and daughter collectively.  "Hello" to my wife, "Hi" back.  Nothing with my daughter.  Some business-like communication with each via text message.  That's it.

Last night, on the way home, I got two nice greeting cards (daughter and wife both love cards).  Wrote lengthy messages to each -- about how hard shit is right now, I know, and while we don't have a magic wand to make it all better, I love you, and I'm not going anywhere.  I was hoping to at least get a crack in the wall.  NOPE.

Business like texts with my wife this morning.  Best I got was "thank you for your card.  I don't have much to say otherwise."  I responded that she can talk to me, that I hear her and understand....all the right things.  I then suggested that she talk to our counselor.  Reply consisted of "No thanks."  So that's SUPER helpful.  And yeah....now I'm beginning to get pissed.  I don't handle the fucking silent treatment well, and everyone in our house knows it.  I'm playing it calm, and trying to make space, and offer gentle direction to places where they can get some help.....but I'm apparently the fucking enemy now.

Meanwhile, the boy is inbound from overseas.  He messaged us to let us know he was on his flight, mom's response was "woohoo!"  Not sure what the fuck that was about, as he's about to walk into a fucking minefield.  Fucking Merry Christmas to all.

And, you know, it's not like I'm dealing with any stresses at the office or anything, what with year-end, difficult clients, all that shit.

man, i'm sorry all this is happening in general but even more difficult with the time of year between holidays and EOY.

hopefully you can get some good time with your son, and maybe he can help thaw the ice having another person in the house...

you are handling it way better than i would, just got to keep playing it calm on the outside and trying to stay calm on the inside.

[Brisketexan 105275]

19 minutes ago, NoName said:

man, i'm sorry all this is happening in general but even more difficult with the time of year between holidays and EOY.

hopefully you can get some good time with your son, and maybe he can help thaw the ice having another person in the house...

you are handling it way better than i would, just got to keep playing it calm on the outside and trying to stay calm on the inside.

This shit is breaking my fucking heart.  Everyone I care about is in pain.

Including me, but ain't nobody got time for that.

[Not that Bob 739]

16 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Update on the super-fun times for dad front:

Nobody is talking to anybody.  Seriously, in the past 48 hours, I have exchanged exactly two spoken words with my wife and daughter collectively.  "Hello" to my wife, "Hi" back.  Nothing with my daughter.  Some business-like communication with each via text message.  That's it.

Last night, on the way home, I got two nice greeting cards (daughter and wife both love cards).  Wrote lengthy messages to each -- about how hard shit is right now, I know, and while we don't have a magic wand to make it all better, I love you, and I'm not going anywhere.  I was hoping to at least get a crack in the wall.  NOPE.

Business like texts with my wife this morning.  Best I got was "thank you for your card.  I don't have much to say otherwise."  I responded that she can talk to me, that I hear her and understand....all the right things.  I then suggested that she talk to our counselor.  Reply consisted of "No thanks."  So that's SUPER helpful.  And yeah....now I'm beginning to get pissed.  I don't handle the fucking silent treatment well, and everyone in our house knows it.  I'm playing it calm, and trying to make space, and offer gentle direction to places where they can get some help.....but I'm apparently the fucking enemy now.

Meanwhile, the boy is inbound from overseas.  He messaged us to let us know he was on his flight, mom's response was "woohoo!"  Not sure what the fuck that was about, as he's about to walk into a fucking minefield.  Fucking Merry Christmas to all.

And, you know, it's not like I'm dealing with any stresses at the office or anything, what with year-end, difficult clients, all that shit.

Similar but not exact situation. My thoughts, worth exactly nothing, but I can suggest suggestions from counselor and being old and weathered. 

Kids are in the process of separating, which is normal, but not easy for any involved. 

 You can't fix it. Step back. Be kind but unattached. Treat them as you would the checker at HEB, kind but not offering suggestions or help...unless requested, and then tread lightly. As I am sure you know, they don't want your suggestions. They see it as you saying they don't already know this stuff. They see it as infantilizing. And in fact, they do already know. Trust your previous parenting. Play the long game. All easier said than done, especially for dads who have the natural instinct to fix it. 

I call it "Be the Queen" patterned after the Queens on The Crown. Kind. Interested. But not offering solutions. 

Trust your previous parenting. You know you did a good job. 

As for the spouse...I got nothing. 

[Hefeweizen 5328]

Brisket , this too shall pass.  Be there for them, it’s all you can do.  You can’t fix their relationship.

Moms and daughters seem to go through a real tough phase between 18 and early twenties.  I’m seeing it, but much milder, with my very smart college sophomore.

[Brisketexan 105275]

Thanks, guys.  I appreciate the thoughts.  My problem is that I'm a tough-as-nails SOB, but I'm also a softie.  My love for my family is 100% my weak point.  So, this is all breaking my fucking heart.   And I have a big damned heart, so that's a lot of breaking being done.

Not seeing a light at the end of the tunnel, or even a tunnel to show me a path forward, is killing me right now.

Family is fucking hard.  Kids are fucking hard.  It all is.

[orange dream 1256]

Hang in there man.  23 year old daughter and my wife had a terrible run from age 16-21.  It has gotten better from age 21-23 (1,000 miles of distance helps) but if they are around each other for more than 4 or 5 days I start to see some of the old fire.

Shot of me exiting the scene when they get started these days.

[hookemATL 11838]

Me with two daughters, thinking about these issues bubbling up in my future:

 

[mdmost 43030]

Teaching the oldest how to drive a car starts next week. Pray for me. 

[irishtexan 11522]

4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Update on the super-fun times for dad front:

Nobody is talking to anybody.  Seriously, in the past 48 hours, I have exchanged exactly two spoken words with my wife and daughter collectively.  "Hello" to my wife, "Hi" back.  Nothing with my daughter.  Some business-like communication with each via text message.  That's it.

Last night, on the way home, I got two nice greeting cards (daughter and wife both love cards).  Wrote lengthy messages to each -- about how hard shit is right now, I know, and while we don't have a magic wand to make it all better, I love you, and I'm not going anywhere.  I was hoping to at least get a crack in the wall.  NOPE.

Business like texts with my wife this morning.  Best I got was "thank you for your card.  I don't have much to say otherwise."  I responded that she can talk to me, that I hear her and understand....all the right things.  I then suggested that she talk to our counselor.  Reply consisted of "No thanks."  So that's SUPER helpful.  And yeah....now I'm beginning to get pissed.  I don't handle the fucking silent treatment well, and everyone in our house knows it.  I'm playing it calm, and trying to make space, and offer gentle direction to places where they can get some help.....but I'm apparently the fucking enemy now.

Meanwhile, the boy is inbound from overseas.  He messaged us to let us know he was on his flight, mom's response was "woohoo!"  Not sure what the fuck that was about, as he's about to walk into a fucking minefield.  Fucking Merry Christmas to all.

And, you know, it's not like I'm dealing with any stresses at the office or anything, what with year-end, difficult clients, all that shit.

Not trying to make light of the situation, but if no one is talking to you, then it's not like you have a lot of shit you need to do for them. Seems like a good time to go fishing and drink too many beers. 

[Brisketexan 105275]

9 minutes ago, irishtexan said:

Not trying to make light of the situation, but if no one is talking to you, then it's not like you have a lot of shit you need to do for them. Seems like a good time to go fishing and drink too many beers. 

Don't think it didn't cross my mind.  Many years ago, one of the best drinking sessions of my life was time at the relatively quiet bar at the Poodle Dog lounge the night before T-giving.  I may well find a beer joint for the Christmas weekend.  Just uber there, uber home, drown my brain in cheap beer.  It worked for previous generations, why not give it another whirl?

[JesusSweatDuck 17809]

4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Thanks, guys.  I appreciate the thoughts.  My problem is that I'm a tough-as-nails SOB, but I'm also a softie.  My love for my family is 100% my weak point.  So, this is all breaking my fucking heart.   And I have a big damned heart, so that's a lot of breaking being done.

Not seeing a light at the end of the tunnel, or even a tunnel to show me a path forward, is killing me right now.

Family is fucking hard.  Kids are fucking hard.  It all is.

I don't have any sage advice to offer, but just know that we're here even if it's just a place to vent.  Not sure if you're located in Austin, but if you are and you want to grab a beer or 12 and talk football to take your mind off of shit DM me.

 

Parenting is rough, life can be rough, but your heart is in the right place, you love your family and that's what matters.

[JesusSweatDuck 17809]

On 12/20/2023 at 7:15 AM, hookem2010 said:

Good luck, man. Sometimes, the frustration, fatigue and occasional boredom that comes with raising a toddler is really exhausting. The emotional toll dealing with a teen/young adult though sounds like a whole different level.

Our 18 month-old is becoming a lot more fun. The words are still coming very slowly, but he is at least attempting to communicate what he wants rather than immediately throwing a fit, and playtime is waaaay more fun than when he was younger. He's also made it through 3 straight weeks of daycare without getting sick, a new personal record!

Little kids, lots of little problems

Big kids, one or two big problems.

 

The big kid shit is hard because you can't just solve it for them.  That's the hardest thing about being a parent, wanting to help, wanting to fix, but not being able to do it for them.

[Jerry Callo 8720]

When the wife walks by, stop her an give her a hug.  No words, just a hug.  Same for daughter.

[Not that Bob 739]

 

As the saying goes, "Do you want to be right, or do  you want to be happy".

Be the Queen.

 

[tbone_ 14147]

When the wife walks by, stop her an give her a hug.  No words, just a hug.  Same for daughter.

Or just go bang some hoes

[InkaUtexas 26072]

Hang in there @Brisketexan  Last few years have been rough with my daughter. Do not know if I will see her over the holidays at all. Distance helps, but her mom still puts on tremendous pressure on the daughter, blaming me for the divorce, etc. Mom's family has money, my career took a hit during Covid and is still recovering so I do what I can, but it is never enough.

Son to avoid turmoil goes to his GF's family retreat and they have a great time. I am thankful for that.

 

[Gatorubet 30290]

On 12/10/2023 at 6:10 PM, Celery Man said:

So last night, sitting on the couch, 2.5 year old says “I hurt my stomach” and then vomits soy milk and apples all over me. Pretty sure it was from some cookie decorating that went sideways and she just ate way too much buttercream. Anyways, yucky - strip clothes, start laundry, clean couch, scoop vomit off the floor, hit the floor with the steam mop, notice some piles of dust on the floor that indicate the Roborock is somehow jammed and file that away for later because it is bathtime.

execute bathtime, get kiddo clean and ready for bed, put her down, go downstairs to remove all the hair and Christmas ornament hooks from the robot vacuum, clean up the downstairs, empty the dishwasher, knock the next thing off of my “before the baby” list which is to assemble the bike that the toddler is getting for Christmas. Check the kid on the monitor and she has definitely thrown up. Strip the sheets strip the toddler start the laundry get the bath running clean the toddler again, remake the bed get the toddler down again, think about how I still could watch an episode of the office or something before I really need to pass out and then wife says her water broke

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I am so tired right now

Don Draper would be out with the boys at a bar passing out cigars.   But cleaning hair out of the Robot Vacuum is nice too.

[InkaUtexas 26072]

Congrats @Celery Man!

Only comparison I have is a flight with both kids (2 and 5) from Houston to Dubai via Amsterdam. Plane starts taxiing. Wife complained about being tired so she takes an empty seat about 6 rows in front. Son is real excited, so he is no problem. Daughter looks at me as we start the taxi and says Daddy, and proceeds to throw up all over my lap. Well of course our flight gets delayed and we are sitting on the ground, so sitting there in puke covered pants and cannot get up. Flight Attendant felt bad for me, did what she could (hot towels, water for the kiddo, etc.) but damn. All I could think about was landing in Amsterdam and getting a new pair of pants. Yeah, we traveled with extra shirts, but not pants. Until that day.

Fuck it, still worth it!

[Celery Man 20996]

Hang in Brisket. I feel like yall all need to sit down and describe why and how you love each person. But shit isn’t simple. Maybe you and the boy should just go watch Iron Claw or go to pinballz or something

 

baby pic. Ezra Townes, finally got to pick a middle name

 

 

[JesusSweatDuck 17809]

24 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Hang in Brisket. I feel like yall all need to sit down and describe why and how you love each person. But shit isn’t simple. Maybe you and the boy should just go watch Iron Claw or go to pinballz or something

 

baby pic. Ezra Townes, finally got to pick a middle name

 

 

Beautiful kiddos, enjoy every moment 

[hookemATL 11838]

1 hour ago, Celery Man said:

Hang in Brisket. I feel like yall all need to sit down and describe why and how you love each person. But shit isn’t simple. Maybe you and the boy should just go watch Iron Claw or go to pinballz or something

 

baby pic. Ezra Townes, finally got to pick a middle name

 

 

Perfect ❤️ congrats my dude🤘

[Snake Diggity 4627]

My girls are still elementary aged but goddam I’m dreading their teenage years.  Legitimately worried we might not all make it thru unscathed.  Sanity and reason doesn’t seem to prevail at all during those times and love doesn’t seem to be enough.  And I’ve already failed enough as a parent that they’ll have plenty of reasons to hate me by that point (and plenty of reasons for me to blame myself for any negative outcomes they experience).  I’m their hero and confidant and generally their favorite person right now and the thought of the other shoe dropping is terrifying.

[InkaUtexas 26072]

1 minute ago, Snake Diggity said:

My girls are still elementary aged but goddam I’m dreading their teenage years.  Legitimately worried we might not all make it thru unscathed.  Sanity and reason doesn’t seem to prevail at all during those times and love doesn’t seem to be enough.  And I’ve already failed enough as a parent that they’ll have plenty of reasons to hate me by that point (and plenty of reasons for me to blame myself for any negative outcomes they experience).  I’m their hero and confidant and generally their favorite person right now and the thought of the other shoe dropping is terrifying.

High school was so damn easy compared to college and her finding out she could be independent, move 1500 miles away and flip me and her brother off. Granted, her brother was kind of a dick, but he was there when she needed him. And it was him who was cut off from his mom, not the daughter. Still sucks not to watch Peanuts with her on Christmas.

[orange dream 1256]

13 hours ago, Snake Diggity said:

My girls are still elementary aged but goddam I’m dreading their teenage years.  Legitimately worried we might not all make it thru unscathed.  Sanity and reason doesn’t seem to prevail at all during those times and love doesn’t seem to be enough.  And I’ve already failed enough as a parent that they’ll have plenty of reasons to hate me by that point (and plenty of reasons for me to blame myself for any negative outcomes they experience).  I’m their hero and confidant and generally their favorite person right now and the thought of the other shoe dropping is terrifying.

I don't remember the quote exactly, but back when my older kids were little I read some book talking about raising kids, etc. and the line that stood out to me was something to the effect of "you don't build a relationship with your teenager, you build the relationship with your teenager when they are in elementary school."  Teen years can be tough, but patience is your friend. 

[Brisketexan 105275]

Well, the boy is home.  And the good news on that front is....he seems to be doing really well.  Shit, I picked him up from the airport (mom was doing a wedding rehearsal, sister was working till late).  So, got home and it was just the two of us.  Popped open some beers, sat on the patio, and shot the shit.  He is learning and absorbing and growing up.  And, when I warned him about walking into a minefield at home, he said "oh, I know all about it.  I'm [sister's] emergency outlet, so I've been talking to her a lot these past few weeks."  And it turns out, he's been telling her a lot of the stuff we've been telling her.  So, that's good.

I also asked him how the girl situation was going at school.  He confessed that he's got to develop better skills for telling girls he's dated that he's just not into them - ghosting them to avoid unpleasant conversations isn't a great plan.  I did ask about the dating pool, and he said bluntly "the challenge is that most Scottish girls are short, wide, and orange."  (They wear WAY too much makeup - it's the "chavette" look).  Cracked my ass up, which I needed.  He does dig the more upper class English lasses.

His presence also spurred some conversation at home, which helped me have some breakthrough conversation with mom at least, so we're talking now.  Daughter still hasn't talked to mom.  Mom is still pissed at daughter.  So, one step at a time.

[Da Fino 2783]

23 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Thanks, guys.  I appreciate the thoughts.  My problem is that I'm a tough-as-nails SOB, but I'm also a softie.  My love for my family is 100% my weak point.  So, this is all breaking my fucking heart.   And I have a big damned heart, so that's a lot of breaking being done.

Not seeing a light at the end of the tunnel, or even a tunnel to show me a path forward, is killing me right now.

Family is fucking hard.  Kids are fucking hard.  It all is.

You should go get everyone a puppy. That oughta fix it. Or a Lexus, it is a December to remember after all. 

[Guest]

On 12/20/2023 at 9:03 AM, Brisketexan said:

And....neither daughter nor wife are speaking to me.  Or to each other.  Not a word was uttered in the house this morning.

Shit blew up on Sunday because the wife went off in counseling, and said some shit that was hurtful to daughter.  Wife was being honest and truthful, and she was also being a bit protective of me.  But it was like tossing a grenade in the room, and since that moment, we've been dealing with debris.  Wife knew she fucked up.  She apologized to daughter, she apologized to me.  And while I was frustrated with how it all went down, I wasn't mad at her - I understand.

But then I told her that our daughter is afraid of her - I had a visit with my dad last night, who had a dinner with my daughter on Sunday, and she shared that with him.  He shared it with me, and asked me not to share it, because it would come back to him.  But I was stupid, and thought I knew best, so I shared it.  Huge mistake.  Wife already had a difficult relationship with my dad, now she says he thinks she's a shitty parent, in fact, everyone in the family does.  She dedicated her life to parenting her kids, and now they are afraid of her.  And they're not alone.  She feels self-conscious about having a reputation for being blunt and unlikeable, and if her own kids now feel that way, it must be true.

So now daughter is afraid to talk to mom, and probably afraid to talk to me.  Neither of them want to talk to me.  Maybe first priority is doing something to patch their relationship, fuck if I know.  I really don't even know where to begin.  Meanwhile, there's zero space for me to feel a single goddamned thing - and that's okay, I'll deal with shit later.  I'll take this one for the team, it's what dads do.  And that fact pisses my wife off as well -- you don't take enough care of yourself, etc. etc.  Well, no shit I don't.  I can't.  I have other priorities: y'all.

That’s borderline fodder for the Holidays/ family thread. I’m sorry, brother.

Had a time when I invited my (then) 17 YO son to leave the house if he did not appreciate the expectations that were not just for him, but everyone in the house. I know he thought twice about taking me up on the offer and for giving him that option, my wife wanted to pray for meteors and shit to take me out.  After about 4-5 days, I told them enough- let’s go out to eat where we have to remain civil and talk it out.

Yeah there’s some risk there, but we also operate from a common point of public decency and respect.  We went out and put everything on the table.  I apologized for the way I conveyed my position, but that the position is non-negotiable and certainly wasn’t new to anyone in our family. The same expectations that he was trying to ignore, also pay off in normalcy, calm, confidence, and order in our household.  Do your best on the shit you control and we have each other’s back on the other.

There’s certain fundamental shit they know I will not back away from.  They don’t have to like it, but they gotta know they are loved.  Not sure of your circumstances or if you actually even did anything wrong, but mostly I am suggesting an olive branch or peace talks, even if you are the mediator.  I’m the world’s worst at playing the quiet game.  I have gone multiple weeks at home, and at work, hell,  I can go forever if someone fucks me over.  Bottom line is that my wife hates it and it hurt my son.  I had to find a way to own what I did without backing off from our values.  Not an easy trick, but the conversation starts the healing.

Good luck!

 

Edited December 22, 2023 by slorch

[Celery Man 20996]

32 minutes ago, Da Fino said:

You should go get everyone a puppy. That oughta fix it. Or a Lexus, it is a December to remember after all. 

 

[Brisketexan 105275]

And to lighten things up, this is the "look" to which the boy was referring when he described scottish gals as orange:

It really is that awful.  Makeup that has to be applied with a trowel.

[mdmost 43030]

I think the hardest part for some of us as dads is overcoming our need to fix things. I know that's one of my biggest issues that I try to work on. It's ingrained in some of us to be fixers especially when a problem arises that we think we can help make better. Sometimes, especially with the other sex, they just want you to listen and not try to fix anything. It's maddening especially when it just gets to the level of just bitching to bitch or consistently complaining about the same issue that could be resolved. I remember this video from our online parent sessions with one of the inpatient places we sent the oldest to. They played it as a means to demonstrate the desire to just have an empathetic listener. The video obviously left me unsatisfied. It's hard to sometimes just sit and listen but I'm getting better at it. With the younger one, it's easy, she typically makes the right choices on things. The older one, it's much harder because her decision making is still shaky but improving. 

 

Edited December 22, 2023 by mdmost

[Brisketexan 105275]

5 minutes ago, mdmost said:

I think the hardest part for some of us as dads is overcoming our need to fix things. I know that's one of my biggest issues that I try to work on. It's ingrained in some of us to be fixers especially when a problem arises that we think we can help make better. Sometimes, especially with the other sex, they just want you to listen and not try to fix anything. It's maddening especially when it just gets to the level of just bitching to bitch or consistently complaining about the same issue that could be resolved. I remember this video from our online parent sessions with one of the inpatient places we sent the oldest to. They played it as a means to demonstrate the desire to just have an empathetic listener. The video obviously left me unsatisfied.

 

DEFINITELY in play with the womenfolk in our household.

"I'm on fire!"  Okay, let's stay calm - how about you jump in the shower to put the fire out?  "NO!  I JUST WANT TO STAND HERE IN FLAMES AND HAVE YOU LISTEN TO ME!"  Cool.  I hear you.  Could we maybe continue this conversation as you step in the shower and put the fire out?  "WHY DO YOU HAVE TO TRY TO SOLVE EVERYTHING?!"  Well....because you're on fire.  And every second that you remain on fire causes you real harm.  So, it seems important that we put the fire out ASAP.  "NOW I'M EVEN ANGRIER, BECAUSE YOU WON'T LISTEN, YOU JUST TRY TO BE THE HERO AND FIX EVERYTHING!"

And Brisket starts thinking "I'm going to have to build up to it, but becoming an alcoholic might be a good plan for me."

[InkaUtexas 26072]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

DEFINITELY in play with the womenfolk in our household.

"I'm on fire!"  Okay, let's stay calm - how about you jump in the shower to put the fire out?  "NO!  I JUST WANT TO STAND HERE IN FLAMES AND HAVE YOU LISTEN TO ME!"  Cool.  I hear you.  Could we maybe continue this conversation as you step in the shower and put the fire out?  "WHY DO YOU HAVE TO TRY TO SOLVE EVERYTHING?!"  Well....because you're on fire.  And every second that you remain on fire causes you real harm.  So, it seems important that we put the fire out ASAP.  "NOW I'M EVEN ANGRIER, BECAUSE YOU WON'T LISTEN, YOU JUST TRY TO BE THE HERO AND FIX EVERYTHING!"

And Brisket starts thinking "I'm going to have to build up to it, but becoming an alcoholic might be a good plan for me."

Have a scotch. Asked wife to grab a six pack today. She gave me the glare. I said I hate Christmas. I am not going to see my kids. And fuck it, wanna know why? Cuz my best friend was assassinated on the 24th.

On that note, going to get a glass of her wine and call my friends sister to wish her a Merry Christmas.

You will be fine Brisket, just go sit on your limb with a nice 21 year old glass.

[Gatorubet 30290]

8 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

Have a scotch. Asked wife to grab a six pack today. She gave me the glare. I said I hate Christmas. I am not going to see my kids. And fuck it, wanna know why? Cuz my best friend was assassinated on the 24th.

On that note, going to get a glass of her wine and call my friends sister to wish her a Merry Christmas.

You will be fine Brisket, just go sit on your limb with a nice 21 year old glass.

Pics of wife not loading. 

[InkaUtexas 26072]

1 hour ago, Gatorubet said:

Pics of wife not loading. 

No pics of wife, but if you go to another forum I posted some pics about a sugar baby. I think it is page 2.