Surly Dad Thread

[kmac30 416]

For some unknown reason, the last few days, I’ve felt like we should have another kid. Oldest is 6 and twins just turned 5. Risk of twins is higher. I had originally said no after 40 (which was in March). Wife is still just 36. She would be game. I mentioned this to my assistant. She thinks this is because my dog died and I miss walking her. She suggested I get a dog before I get the wife pregnant. There’s a lot of substance there. We’re going to be moving into a bigger house in about 5 months. Space won’t be a problem. Am I crazy? I mentioned it to my wife and I think she blew it off.

[Lobwedgephil 1,146]

You are crazy. 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,921]

5 hours ago, kmac30 said:

For some unknown reason, the last few days, I’ve felt like we should have another kid. Oldest is 6 and twins just turned 5. Risk of twins is higher. I had originally said no after 40 (which was in March). Wife is still just 36. She would be game. I mentioned this to my assistant. She thinks this is because my dog died and I miss walking her. She suggested I get a dog before I get the wife pregnant. There’s a lot of substance there. We’re going to be moving into a bigger house in about 5 months. Space won’t be a problem. Am I crazy? I mentioned it to my wife and I think she blew it off.

yes youre crazy. going from 6 and two 5's to a newborn would be such a change up in life. just think getting out the door and how easy it is when the kid is even 3 yrs old vs a new born.

 

 

Edited October 16, 2018 by MNLonghornFUKM

[hornian 5,256]

I'm 35, just had number 2 (oldest just turned 3). Wife is 31. I told her I want one more, but I want to do it in the next 2-3 years, because I don't want to be a father to an infant in my 40s. 

Now, maybe that would change if the situation arose, but if I had my druthers, I'd have 3 kids, have them all in my 30s, have them all in college just when I'm fixing to retire, and then retire after they are done with school and live my life blowing their inheritance and making them jealous of their mom and dad while they start their working lives. 

[JimmyHoffa 1,188]

43 minutes ago, hornian said:

I'm 35, just had number 2 (oldest just turned 3). Wife is 31. I told her I want one more, but I want to do it in the next 2-3 years, because I don't want to be a father to an infant in my 40s. 

Now, maybe that would change if the situation arose, but if I had my druthers, I'd have 3 kids, have them all in my 30s, have them all in college just when I'm fixing to retire, and then retire after they are done with school and live my life blowing their inheritance and making them jealous of their mom and dad while they start their working lives. 

 

Yep. Wife and I got married at 30 done with kids at 35. Not to be selfish but having a kid later just pushes off retirement and potential travel with kids still being in play. Don't get me wrong I would have loved one more but that shipped sailed several years ago after getting snipped.

[Kyle 207]

Fun stuff ... Boy's Friend A plays Race Card on Boy's Friend B because Friend B's parents would not let him sleepover at Friend A's house because his parents do not know Friend A's mom. I was not ready for Identity Politics in elementary school.

[Jkwellborn 6,898]

He’s being taught that shit at home. His parents probably have some solid victimhood going on.

[Guest Lobo]

Any tips from y'all veteran dads?   Daughter really did, no pride of authorship here, skip the Terrible 2's.  She's now 3.5 and really pushing boundaries, ignoring what we say even to her own physical detriment, and getting pretty salty.  Now overall, I'd say she's still a bit nicer than most kids her age that we encounter, but just pushing and pushing at every turn lately.  Wife was the disciplinarian early on (really until the last couple of months) and I was fun dad but still raised my voice if she did fun shit like dart into traffic. 

But lately, mom is of the school of thought that telling her what to do and what not to do, even in a calm voice and demeanor, is just berating her with too many directives and too much information.  So we are at a fun phase where daughter is just walking all over both of us and wife thinks (suddenly and without much warning considering the iron thumb of German/Calvinist agrarian small town discipline and Catholic guilt bullshit she was raised under and still suffers from to this day) that we shouldn't demand too much of her right now.  It's weird because I realize people adhere to these schools of thought, but wife just suddenly flipped on a dime about ~6 weeks ago.  And daughter has gotten progressively saltier and testier.  I dunno.  I asked her three times to not throw plastic boardgame tokens at mommy and I while we were preparing dinner and wife just got on my ass about not directing her to not do/or do too much in one day.  Yes, obviously I'm the asshole.  But when it came to child rearing and be a decent balance of leading by example and being a stern daddy, all reports were I was doing a decent-to-good job.  

We are expecting another child now, wife is 15-16 weeks along.  Could that explain it?  Because I'm really at a loss.  Again, I admit to not always being a great communicator.  But I've always been on a great page with out daughter.  She's listened to me and engaged me with the smile and spirit of an angel since she could lift her head up.  But as wife has throttled back and taken the "we can't say anything to her approach", she's turned into a really testy salty-pants gal.  I know I'm not the only one to hit this crossroads so please dear god, some one give me some insight.  

[Jkwellborn 6,898]

Daughter knows you ain’t about shit homie. You don’t negotiate with terrorists.

[Guest Lobo]

48 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:

Daughter knows you ain’t about shit homie. You don’t negotiate with terrorists.

She's (my daughter) not my worry right now.  I knew this day would come.  What I did not see coming is not only my wife completely abandoning me but on a dime, treating me as if I was the "example dad" in every shitty scenario in every book she's ever read about toddlers (or whatever the hell you call a 3.5 year old).  

Edited October 22, 2018 by Lobo

[Jkwellborn 6,898]

Your wife doesn’t want to deal with her at this point.

[tbone_ 14,300]

Terrible 2s is a misnomer. It’s the 3s that are tough.

If you aren’t training her she is training you. Train or be trained my friend. Good luck.

[Guest Lobo]

Yes, guys I realize that 3 year old girls can be shits.  I get it.  Try to actually read my question and my plea for help---why, in the wake of this behavior, is my wife suddenly not agreeing with anything that I'm doing.  My daughter's behavior will come to a head and solve itself.  What I can't deal with right now is why my wife has gone from my biggest cheerleader to "you're too stearn, you're too soft, you're too loud, you're too quiet, you're too on top of her, you're too absent."  I'm really starting to want to chalk it up to 15-week pregnant hormones but I think that may be a cop-out.  For those who had wives get pregnant again when first one was say 2.5-4.5 years old, what was the environment around your house/life?  Honest question.  I know my daughter is going through a rough phase, christ-I fucking get it.  My question is a bit bigger than that.  Thanks.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Yes, guys I realize that 3 year old girls can be shits.  I get it.  Try to actually read my question and my plea for help---why, in the wake of this behavior, is my wife suddenly not agreeing with anything that I'm doing.  My daughter's behavior will come to a head and solve itself.  What I can't deal with right now is why my wife has gone from my biggest cheerleader to "you're too stearn, you're too soft, you're too loud, you're too quiet, you're too on top of her, you're too absent."  I'm really starting to want to chalk it up to 15-week pregnant hormones but I think that may be a cop-out.  For those who had wives get pregnant again when first one was say 2.5-4.5 years old, what was the environment around your house/life?  Honest question.  I know my daughter is going through a rough phase, christ-I fucking get it.  My question is a bit bigger than that.  Thanks.

Your question has nothing to do with being a dad, it has to be with being the husband/leader/man of the house. Your wife, for whatever reason, has wavered on the tacit yet ultimate trust and consent you give to the husband. She's doubting your role/ability and you should confront her and ask her: "Hey I've noticed lately that we haven't been on the same page with things....etc etc...blah blah....why do you think this is?"

Maybe she's witnessed some things that she disagrees with or bothers her or runs opposite to her experience or something and hasn't told you. Or maybe she's hormonal and hates you right now because...hormones and she needs to cry it out.

Either way, and as a rule of thumb, if we disagree with something the other is doing, we won't vocalize or cut the legs out of the other in front of the kids (and it's never so gratuitous that we would have to, like harm or something) and we have the conversation later in closed doors.

[Guest Lobo]

Thanks for listening, I feel better.  Yeah, we need a reboot in private and haven't really gotten the chance with work schedules lately.  Today was awesome.  Took the family up to the top of Mount Bonnell for a family picnic with pictures of our 14-week sonogram and told our daughter she was going to be a big sister.  It was a glorious day filled with pride and love all the way around.  Then around 5pm, I breathed. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Lobo said:

Thanks for listening, I feel better.  Yeah, we need a reboot in private and haven't really gotten the chance with work schedules lately.  Today was awesome.  Took the family up to the top of Mount Bonnell for a family picnic with pictures of our 14-week sonogram and told our daughter she was going to be a big sister.  It was a glorious day filled with pride and love all the way around.  Then around 5pm, I breathed. 

Awesome! Dude you are the man, quit overthinking, you got this!

[Guest Lobo]

But at 5:01p, I exhaled and now I'm the asshole  

I ask questions for a living and some days, I forget instead of making defensive statements to ask my wife why we are not on the same page.  And that's critical to fatherhood, I've discovered.  I actually confront my daughter with lots of questions in all situations, whether it's to inquire about good, bad, or indifferent behavior.  And we have decent exchanges for her age.  I honestly know that's one of the few things I'm good at.  But I forget to take that skill-set over to parenting discussions with my wife.  I've just been defending myself and wondering "Da fuh" over and over again for the last few weeks.  Need to ask her why we're not on the same page.  

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Lobo said:

But at 5:01p, I exhaled and now I'm the asshole  

I ask questions for a living and some days, I forget instead of making defensive statements to ask my wife why we are not on the same page.  And that's critical to fatherhood, I've discovered.  I actually confront my daughter with lots of questions in all situations, whether it's to inquire about good, bad, or indifferent behavior.  And we have decent exchanges for her age.  I honestly know that's one of the few things I'm good at.  But I forget to take that skill-set over to parenting discussions with my wife.  I've just been defending myself and wondering "Da fuh" over and over again for the last few weeks.  Need to ask her why we're not on the same page.  

I wouldn't rule out hormones either though, not to give you a cop out for your share of the problems.

It's been many, many years, but a quick anecdote. When my wife was pregnant with our second and the first was a toddler, I remember one night at like 1am she was sleeping and I googled "My wife is pregnant why....." and one of the first automatic sentence fillers was "does she hate me."

What I'm trying to ask is, did I ever tell you how Uncle Max came to his reward? This country's hard on people, always has been. It's nothing new. It all ain't waiting on you. That's vanity.

Edited October 22, 2018 by Guest

[Kyle 207]

15 hours ago, Lobo said:

Any tips from y'all veteran dads?   Daughter really did, no pride of authorship here, skip the Terrible 2's.  She's now 3.5 and really pushing boundaries, ignoring what we say even to her own physical detriment, and getting pretty salty.  Now overall, I'd say she's still a bit nicer than most kids her age that we encounter, but just pushing and pushing at every turn lately.  Wife was the disciplinarian early on (really until the last couple of months) and I was fun dad but still raised my voice if she did fun shit like dart into traffic. 

But lately, mom is of the school of thought that telling her what to do and what not to do, even in a calm voice and demeanor, is just berating her with too many directives and too much information.  So we are at a fun phase where daughter is just walking all over both of us and wife thinks (suddenly and without much warning considering the iron thumb of German/Calvinist agrarian small town discipline and Catholic guilt bullshit she was raised under and still suffers from to this day) that we shouldn't demand too much of her right now.  It's weird because I realize people adhere to these schools of thought, but wife just suddenly flipped on a dime about ~6 weeks ago.  And daughter has gotten progressively saltier and testier.  I dunno.  I asked her three times to not throw plastic boardgame tokens at mommy and I while we were preparing dinner and wife just got on my ass about not directing her to not do/or do too much in one day.  Yes, obviously I'm the asshole.  But when it came to child rearing and be a decent balance of leading by example and being a stern daddy, all reports were I was doing a decent-to-good job.  

We are expecting another child now, wife is 15-16 weeks along.  Could that explain it?  Because I'm really at a loss.  Again, I admit to not always being a great communicator.  But I've always been on a great page with out daughter.  She's listened to me and engaged me with the smile and spirit of an angel since she could lift her head up.  But as wife has throttled back and taken the "we can't say anything to her approach", she's turned into a really testy salty-pants gal.  I know I'm not the only one to hit this crossroads so please dear god, some one give me some insight.  

I'm far from an expert. I generally have a couple of assumptions that have served me well:

- Regardless of how they act, children want to be told what to do and controlled -> it makes them subconsciously feel safe and secure that the parent is taking care of them and protecting them
- You need to lay the foundation early of who is the leader / boss / whatever you want to call it -> they need to learn very early who is in charge and that subconsciously will resonate with them when they are older

[Guest Lobo]

Again, I totally agree.  My venting was more of why my wife wasn’t seeing it that way the last few weeks.  Am still Openly soliciting responses from other fathers who have dealt with a toddler but more importantly a pregnant wife who suddenly didn’t understand their approach

[Jkwellborn 6,898]

You’re wife is pregnant. That means she’s not thinking correctly. I think some women do ok with the hormones and others wind up like Harley Quinn.

[JimmyHoffa 1,188]

16 hours ago, Lobo said:

Yes, guys I realize that 3 year old girls can be shits.  I get it.  Try to actually read my question and my plea for help---why, in the wake of this behavior, is my wife suddenly not agreeing with anything that I'm doing.  My daughter's behavior will come to a head and solve itself.  What I can't deal with right now is why my wife has gone from my biggest cheerleader to "you're too stearn, you're too soft, you're too loud, you're too quiet, you're too on top of her, you're too absent."  I'm really starting to want to chalk it up to 15-week pregnant hormones but I think that may be a cop-out.  For those who had wives get pregnant again when first one was say 2.5-4.5 years old, what was the environment around your house/life?  Honest question.  I know my daughter is going through a rough phase, christ-I fucking get it.  My question is a bit bigger than that.  Thanks.

 

100% a conversation (not an argument) to have in private. Don't accuse her of cutting your balls off but just approach the subject of "with a 2nd child on the way we really need to be on the same page......" or some shit like that. 

Both my wife and I have had that conversation when the other is either dropping the ball or is a little too tough on the kids. It's important to not make it about you but the kids. And NEVER do this in front of your daughter as she will use that shit against you even at 3. 

My wife has always been easier on the kids and I have always been the "asshole dad" I have no problem with that role but my wife knows not to undermine my authority and if she thinks I am being too hard on them she knows to mention it in private not in front of the kids. Sure she has slipped up a time or two but for the most part we are on the same page. It's also something I would nip in the bud sooner or later or when baby #2 comes around you could be in deep shit. 

Also if your daughter knows that she has a baby brother/sister on the way she might be acting out to make sure you give her attention. That will probably continue as she is still pretty young. I hate people telling me how to parent but since you asked I would put her in "time out" and explain to her that shit isn't going to sail in your house. (maybe not those exact words) 

She will learn that you still love her even with a new addition to the family and her attitude and acting out should improve as she gets a little older. But if you/your wife let her walk all over you now you're going to be fucked when #2. comes. 

And finally it can (and probably is) 100% your wife's hormones to at least some degree, that is why it's important to not accuse her of anything as that will just make it worse. 

Good luck. 

[Modessit 5,625]

Yep. It's because she's pregnant. Her hormones are pushing her into her nesting phase where she REALLY wants to start babying the new baby and since it isn't here yet she's transferred that to your daughter for now. The big problem for you is that she might not recognize it and those same hormones will cause her to lose her shit or cry at the drop of a hat no matter how you approach it.

 

 

[Guest Lobo]

Decent theory actually.  Anyway, we talked and situation is normalized for now.  My wife is a lot of things, but overly-hormonal even during previous pregnancies is not one of them.  But I think she does want the baby to hurry up and get here and be healthy because of our age (she 41).  Anyway, back to the fun dad stuff.  

My daughter talked to mommy's belly last night and said, "Goodnight, Baby."  And she's convinced it's a girl in there (we haven't told anyone yet) because and I quote, "It can't be a boy because we don't have any boy clothes in our house for it...only girl clothes.  And daddy's clothes are too giant for a baby boy."  Can't argue with that logic. 

[Modessit 5,625]

My soon-to-be-5-yr-old son has been trying to convince my wife that we need a baby boy. My 2.5-yr-old daughter is not convinced. My wife is 39 and says she got her two and one of each and she's done. I'm 49 and agree with her, although I'd probably go along if she really wanted one more.

[Kyle 207]

3 hours ago, Modessit said:

Yep. It's because she's pregnant a she. The big problem for you is that she might not recognize it and those same hormones will cause her to lose her shit or cry at the drop of a hat no matter how you approach it.

FIFY.

[HoustonFrog 368]

My soon-to-be-5-yr-old son has been trying to convince my wife that we need a baby boy. My 2.5-yr-old daughter is not convinced. My wife is 39 and says she got her two and one of each and she's done. I'm 49 and agree with her, although I'd probably go along if she really wanted one more.

I’m in my late 20s with my first (7mos) and can’t imagine having an infant/baby past the age of 35. Having one has near killed me and I do like 10% of the work.

Unfortunately for the first time in our lives, my wife and I are at odds on an important issue. I’m pretty sure I want to stop at two kids, she wants four. I could probably meet in the middle at three but I think four would be a total disaster for everyone


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,921]

Im 33. Happily done with 2.

[GlenFromTheMailRoom 1,618]

35 and have two girls now.  I'm done after the next whether it's a boy or not.  I want to enjoy time with my wife at some point.  Oh and being able to take a shit by myself would be nice too.

Edited October 23, 2018 by GlenFromTheMailRoom

[Patricio Swayze 17,058]

Pussies. I am 42 and have a 3.5 and 1.5 year old girls.

But yeah, I am done. Absolutely done.

[HoustonFrog 368]

Im 33. Happily done with 2.

That’s where I’d like to be. Both kids in college prior to 50, retire by 55.

Altho really it’s just these early years that terrify me. I would be game for four kids if I could get them at 6 or 7 years old. Just get past the crying, sleeping, 24/7 dependent nightmare


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SMUlawUTgrad 81]

We have an almost two year old and are about to start trying for number two. We’re both 30. Want to have the option to have a third in a few years without being too old.

[Guest Lobo]

1 hour ago, HoustonFrog said:

 

I’m in my late 20s with my first (7mos) and can’t imagine having an infant/baby past the age of 35. Having one has near killed me and I do like 10% of the work.

Unfortunately for the first time in our lives, my wife and I are at odds on an important issue. I’m pretty sure I want to stop at two kids, she wants four. I could probably meet in the middle at three but I think four would be a total disaster for everyone


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I used to not be able to imagine having a child past 35 either.  For the record we did start trying at 35.  But you make a plan and then you realize that most women are fucking insane.  So you take your time and understand that we're bred to find a mate to bear us multiple children from 15-40.  But waiting for a perfect mate to keep you tethered to this planet is a challenge, but a very rewarding one.  If you only want to have two, it's not hard to go beyond 35.  But yeah, whatever happens from here on out, we're never getting pregnant again.  

She has sisters though who are 40, 37, and about 28.  I wish they knew the struggles we've had starting a family because they'd move from texting my wife smoothies they make on Saturday mornings to shutting up and getting pregnant.  They are loaded up with health information and lectures, yet only one is married and the three of them are nowhere near motherhood.  Kind of a bummer. 

 

Back to fatherhood.  I think I'm gonna skip a vasectomy since I saw photos of what happened to my brother.  

[Goofyboy 3,338]

Don’t be a pussy. Vasectomy is easy.

I’m 40, one kid that’s 7 and we are done. He’s enough to manage.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4,980]

4 hours ago, Lobo said:

I used to not be able to imagine having a child past 35 either.  For the record we did start trying at 35.  But you make a plan and then you realize that most women are fucking insane.  So you take your time and understand that we're bred to find a mate to bear us multiple children from 15-40.  But waiting for a perfect mate to keep you tethered to this planet is a challenge, but a very rewarding one.  If you only want to have two, it's not hard to go beyond 35.  But yeah, whatever happens from here on out, we're never getting pregnant again.  

She has sisters though who are 40, 37, and about 28.  I wish they knew the struggles we've had starting a family because they'd move from texting my wife smoothies they make on Saturday mornings to shutting up and getting pregnant.  They are loaded up with health information and lectures, yet only one is married and the three of them are nowhere near motherhood.  Kind of a bummer. 

 

Back to fatherhood.  I think I'm gonna skip a vasectomy since I saw photos of what happened to my brother.  

Your brother showed you pictures of his junk?

[You don't know me 1,161]

Kids' schools went on full lock down yesterday.  Someone called in threat and didn't name the school, so they locked them all down.  Oldest 2 are in high school and can cope.  Next one is in 6th grade and he is also good.  3rd grader, a little more dicey, but he was good.  The one that got to me was the one in kindergarten.  He was in PE when it happened and they put all the kids into an equipment room.  I asked him last night what he thought was going on, and he said that he thought a bad person was out there.  I asked him if he was scared and he said yes.  Sometimes I really hate what we have become.

[tbone_ 14,300]

Just sometimes?

[Paco 1,934]

I tried to be a good Dad, I really did.

[ocugolf 1,217]

Wife and I were expecting our first on December 8. Had an ultrasound this morning and there was no heartbeat. Baby had been totally healthy. 

So now, we are preparing for a C-Section this afternoon. Flooded with questions and emotions. We don’t have a name. How the fuck do you plan for funeral? Nurses keep talking about taking pictures and holding the baby. I’m totally not ready for any of this. I feel helpless. So thoughts and prayers my way would greatly appreciated in the coming hours.

[mushroomface 62]

Jesus, that is horrible. I can't even imagine going through that. Thoughts and prayers.

[BigDHornfan 6,599]

I don’t know what else to say but I’m very sorry for your loss and praying for you.

[Chief Ouray 32]

I am so sorry ocugolf.  My wife experienced multiple miscarriages as we tried for a third child nearing 40 years-old.  They are never easy, please allow yourself to grieve for the child you lost.  Do whatever feels right at this moment, but remember the maternity nurses have experienced this multiple times and are talking from a loving place about what has helped people in the past. 

[Mr. Blutarsky 133]

ocugolf, I'm so sorry. Prayers en route. 

[Guest Lobo]

I am so sorry for your loss.  We will say a prayer for you tonight.  We've been there a few times, but never that far along.  This will sound harsh, but you aren't going to make any rational decisions in the short term, so go with what feels right as others have said and just be there for your wife. 

Remember, on top of all the emotions, she also has to recover from surgery.  Just be available for her.  You'll heal in time in your own way.  But you aren't alone on this.  

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,921]

Wife and I were expecting our first on December 8. Had an ultrasound this morning and there was no heartbeat. Baby had been totally healthy. 
So now, we are preparing for a C-Section this afternoon. Flooded with questions and emotions. We don’t have a name. How the fuck do you plan for funeral? Nurses keep talking about taking pictures and holding the baby. I’m totally not ready for any of this. I feel helpless. So thoughts and prayers my way would greatly appreciated in the coming hours.

Fuck. Absolutely horrible. I have no words but my heart breaks for you. Ugh

[CBT 1,288]

fuck, I'm so sorry. 

[BearSchlong 8,144]

Wife and I were expecting our first on December 8. Had an ultrasound this morning and there was no heartbeat. Baby had been totally healthy. 
So now, we are preparing for a C-Section this afternoon. Flooded with questions and emotions. We don’t have a name. How the fuck do you plan for funeral? Nurses keep talking about taking pictures and holding the baby. I’m totally not ready for any of this. I feel helpless. So thoughts and prayers my way would greatly appreciated in the coming hours.

I can't even imagine what you must be feeling right now. You and your wife are in my thoughts and I prayers.

[tbone_ 14,300]

Damn man. So very sorry.

[TenaciousTgarden 14]

Hey Ocugolf. I'm not a dad. But I'm a mom and a psychologist.  This website  http://www.emptyarmsbereavement.org/ is a great resource and support for those having gone through miscarriage and stillbirth; it was started by a friend's sister. Lots of good resources and questions and answers, even though the support groups themselves are likely not in your state (Massachusetts).They do offer telephone and email support, and may be able to help you (and your wife) find someone locally to process this heartbreaking experience.

 

[EE2B 1,565]

Wife and I were expecting our first on December 8. Had an ultrasound this morning and there was no heartbeat. Baby had been totally healthy. 
So now, we are preparing for a C-Section this afternoon. Flooded with questions and emotions. We don’t have a name. How the fuck do you plan for funeral? Nurses keep talking about taking pictures and holding the baby. I’m totally not ready for any of this. I feel helpless. So thoughts and prayers my way would greatly appreciated in the coming hours.

I am so sorry for your loss. I will absolutely be praying for you and your wife. My cousin experienced basically the same trauma that you and your wife are going through now. She joined a group called M.E.N.D. (Mother’s enduring neonatal death) that helped her deal with the travesty that you guys are going through. I’m pretty sure there is also an organization that will send out photographers and take pictures of the baby at a reduced cost or for free. Praying for you guys.