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Posted
  On 2/19/2023 at 7:38 PM, Underdog said:

They should tell Trump he'll get his invite in two weeks. 

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Since it’s difficult to prosecute a president, I’d like to see the executive branch police their own. Bush II, Clinton and Obama put a fierce beat down on the orange turd. 
 

 

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Posted

Holy shit, while I vaguely remember him as President, never knew this about Mary Prince, the nanny they chose for Amy when Jimmy was Governor of Georgia and then President.:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Prince_(nanny)

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She and her cousin Aniemaude had gone into a bar in Lumpkin, and Aniemaude had got into an argument. In 1977 Mary said: “I went outside and heard a shot. Aniemaude and this woman were fighting over Aniemaude’s gun. I didn’t know anything about guns, but I tried to take it away and it went off. We didn’t know it had hit anyone.” Clare Crawford added: "The other woman, however, claimed that Mary seized the gun and deliberately fired it, killing the woman’s boyfriend."

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Prince was defended by a white court-appointed lawyer whom she first met on the day of the trial. In 1977, she said "I was under the impression I was pleading guilty to involuntary manslaughter, but it turned out to be murder." Jimmy Carter (in 2005) and Kate Andersen Brower (in 2015) both wrote that her lawyer advised her to plead guilty and promised a light sentence. Clare Crawford wrote in 1977 that "Her attorney says that he read the indictment to Mary before she made her plea". Prince said in 1977 that she saw her lawyer twice for 10 or 15 minutes and that she spent a total of less than an hour in court before receiving her life sentence.

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Jimmy Carter says Prince was lucky the dead man was not white, as she would then have "likely" suffered the fate of Lena Baker, a black woman pardoned in 2005, 60 years after being executed by electric chair. Rosalynn Carter says that she was convicted because of the color of her skin.

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Prince became Amy's nanny in 1971 while Jimmy Carter was governor of Georgia and she was a trusty prisoner assigned to the governor's mansion, after being interviewed in December 1970 and chosen that month by Rosalynn Carter to look after Amy because Rosalynn was convinced of her innocence.

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In 1975, when Jimmy Carter's term as governor ended, Prince was sent back to prison. However, in January 1977 she was able to travel to Washington for Carter's inauguration as U.S. president. Partly thanks to a letter to the parole board by First Lady Rosalynn Carter, and partly thanks to Jimmy Carter, who asked to be designated as her parole officer, Prince was reprieved, and was able to live and work at the White House for the four years of Carter's presidency.

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Jimmy asked to be her parole officer so she could travel to D.C. and work at the White House.  Meanwhile, we have all these "Christian" Republican politicians who would never in a million years volunteer to be the parole officer of somebody convicted of murder because they believed in their innocence.  Especially somebody that was black.

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Posted
  On 2/20/2023 at 3:10 AM, atomheartbevo said:

Holy shit, while I vaguely remember him as President, never knew this about Mary Prince, the nanny they chose for Amy when Jimmy was Governor of Georgia and then President.:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Prince_(nanny)

Jimmy asked to be her parole officer so she could travel to D.C. and work at the White House.  Meanwhile, we have all these "Christian" Republican politicians who would never in a million years volunteer to be the parole officer of somebody convicted of murder because they believed in their innocence.  Especially somebody that was black.

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Couldn’t Jimmy have pardoned her when he was Governor?

Posted (edited)

As we ready for his passing there remains one minor bit of intrigue from his Presidency.....  and it involves the Canadian Caper.  (The Vela Incident is now pretty much attributed to the Israelis with South African help.)

The whole line of investigation began when watching Argo and with the knowledge that in 1980 Swissair only owned two 747s and they were both used ZRH<->JFK and everything else in the Swissair network was either DC-10s or DC-8s; the Americans did not depart Tehran on a 747 (and oh by the way the Brown stripe Swissair livery was introduced in 1981, a year after it was depicted on the 747 that didn't operate to Tehran: http://www.sr692.com/design/livery/standard.html).  These liberties taken by Affleck in Argo tweaked my airline authoritai.

So, off to the wiki, which tells the story https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Caper:

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Early on the morning of Sunday, January 27, 1980, Mendez, "Julio", and the six American diplomats, traveling with real Canadian passports and forged entry documents, easily made it through security at Tehran's Mehrabad International Airport.[2][non-primary source needed] After a short delay because of mechanical difficulties with the McDonnell Douglas DC-8-62, the group boarded Swissair flight 363 (Registration: HB-IDL) for Zürich, Switzerland. By coincidence, the aircraft was named Aargau,[14] after the Aargau canton in northern Switzerland.

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case closed, right?

then i ran across another article which was suspicious:

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-oscars-argo-swissair/former-swissair-manager-says-argo-scenes-realistic-idUSLNE91P00N20130226

The post-war Western European flag carriers (including TWA and Pan American) that operated far-flung inter-continental networks RARELY operated thin routes over 2000 miles on a daily basis, so the question remained alive when the Swissair station manager claimed "they operated to Zurich daily".

I went away from the question for a couple of years, but then ran across this article from Radio Canada that was first published on 28 January 2014 then republished 27 January 2017:

https://www.rcinet.ca/en/2017/01/27/canada-history-jan-27-1980-the-famous-canadian-caper-rescue/

Someone at RCI saw fit to leave the original on the same page and not over write it, and in doing so, it uncovers a slight anomaly.   The 28 January 2014 article opens with a departure date from Tehran of 28 January 1980.  The "updated" article re-published on 27 January 2017 edits the departure date from Tehran to agree with the wiki: 27 January 1980, a Sunday, which is how the departure was depicted by Affleck (except with the wrong metal in the wrong livery).  Were the different dates just an accident? (Also, BOAC merged with BEA to form British airways in 1974 so the depiction of a BOAC livery on a 747 in 1980 is also wrong, Ben).

So, to the Bat Cave!

There are 2 Swissair schedules that cover the winter of 1979/1980.  One is the English-only North American timetable, the other the tri-lingual European/Worldwide Timetable/Horaire/Flugplan.   One was easy to procure within a week; the other took 2 years for a set ebay search to deliver the item.

They both confirm the same information for the winter of 1979/1980:

SR 362 ZRH 2.4.5.7 2235-0555 THR+1 D8S Nonstop

SR 363 THR 1.3.5.6 0740-1040 ZRH D8S Nonstop

Thus, the only way to jive Swissair metal operating SR 363 on a Sunday in January of 1980 was for the "slight mechanical delay" to have actually been a 24-hour delay by the Swiss, i.e. SR362 must have been delayed by 24 hours.  The Swiss complicity in the caper can be discerned by the tell from the station manager.  No flag carrier operated Intercontinental routes on a daily basis in the 1980s with the exception of North America <-> Europe and Australia<->Europe but with stops in Singapore, India or the Middle East.

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postscript:

The Swiss declared themselves Neutral in 1515, and finally joined the United Nations in 2002.  Ben Affleck dissed the Canadians and didn't even invite former Ambassador Ken Taylor to the premiere in Toronto, and Taylor was living there at the time.  2 other Canadians, John Sheardown and his wife Zena were omitted entirely from the movie, despite their critical work that endangered their own lives.  The CIA were the junior partner in the affair.  Final confirmation of the "slight mechanical delay" would be available with research of the published schedules for the other European flag carriers operating to Tehran and on which 6 backup tickets were purchased for every subsequent flight "that day".

But in summary, the CIA operation would not have been coded GREEN GREEN without knowledge of a Sunday morning departure, which Swissair was not scheduled to operate.

Therefore, President Jimmy Carter was the first US President since the Treaty of Paris in 1815 to effect a break in Swiss neutrality, either through overt cooperation in the delay of the outbound Flight 362, or possibly overt CIA "influence" over the airworthiness of the metal on night of Friday 25 January.  I would prefer to believe the former.

Or maybe it was Utah.

 

 

Edited by Hagbard Celine
Posted

and for gratuitous geeking, just because.....

the CREDIBLE SPORT test film of the insane scheme to rescue the hostages by landing & taking off with the hostages from the soccer stadium across the street:

 

Posted

the closest we have come to disclosure:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Carter_UFO_incident

"The sighting is said to have had a personal impact on Carter and his perception of UFOs and UFO sightings. During his 1976 election campaign, he is said to have told reporters that, as a result of it, he would institute a policy of openness if he were elected to office, saying:

'One thing's for sure, I'll never make fun of people who say they've seen unidentified objects in the sky. If I become President, I'll make every piece of information this country has about UFO sightings available to the public and the scientists.'

Despite his earlier pledge, once elected, Carter distanced himself from disclosure, citing "defense implications" as being behind his decision."

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"Defense Implications"

i like that

i will use that

thank you jimmy

godspeed

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Posted
  On 2/20/2023 at 10:57 PM, atomheartbevo said:

Skunk Works were doing some crazy stuff in the 70s (and 50s and 60s).

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the kerfuffle over tom cruises' "darkstar" is hilarious for the boys and girls who were and still are involved....

beginning in june '91 through april '92, at 7am on thursday mornings, earthquake monitors on the california coast registered the same seismographic wave pattern unlike any other known aircraft, traveling "several" times the speed of sound.....

the combined cycle engine in maverick's "doesn't exist yet SR-72" is a concept older than many reading this and first deployed during the days of fred and mcwilliams....

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1992-04-17-me-607-story.html

here's a 30-year-old book for anyone that wants a head start catching up:

https://www.amazon.com/Aurora-Pentagons-Hypersonic-Spyplane-Mil-Tech/dp/0879387807/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1RQWM34QJRN3P&keywords=bill+sweetman+aurora&qid=1678831153&sprefix=bill+sweetman+aurora%2Caps%2C1051&sr=8-1

anyone that wants to carry on from there, lmk and i can point you to several paths to chapel perilous

Posted
  On 3/15/2023 at 1:04 AM, Voldemort86 said:

Did Carter vote democrat all his life? Didn’t the party change quite a bit after he left office?

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The word is democratic. Democrat is a noun. Democratic is an adjective. When you are describing something, but not referring to the subject itself, you use an adjective. You should have learned that at the very least at the great University of Texas, which you clearly attended.

Anyway, what kind of question is that? Do you seriously not know the answer?

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Posted

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/18/us/politics/jimmy-carter-october-surprise-iran-hostages.html?unlocked_article_code=RxbET6pEXlHrK7yP0BjF9vWb0rg1bbMR5-FgaZ2Nv5AC8654Mt5QyA5zcJNY3xhNJ1fa_McPNMA-d90iw4_CrIgP4_plWTsFbMnFY9oFqXriLRkNWvImQL43K1SWPB15Cr1axJswZuNG0gnSdsY5kLMogtr2bdrBf4l8qSjz1sWvxIfgU1PsR3ixmLC2zJMCE9MNvtF1cuWjAJrw4KEJTuEzGtskP-pfRM0zKeztAtOjA20uZQHMvmM_ubF5NumpGEgwSzZ0kRcBtyGwcP8tlUll-PNZT_kdyRBkDeb0_az8INaz_AzPtf1s09R_5e1F5UrNgITslTvV5jZxxWyTKOKiG3DRNfEUJBeCYnI-jx5J-8GzlfiS2RE&smid=tw-share

 

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It has been more than four decades, but Ben Barnes said he remembers it vividly. His longtime political mentor invited him on a mission to the Middle East. What Mr. Barnes said he did not realize until later was the real purpose of the mission: to sabotage the re-election campaign of the president of the United States.

It was 1980 and Jimmy Carter was in the White House, bedeviled by a hostage crisis in Iran that had paralyzed his presidency and hampered his effort to win a second term. Mr. Carter’s best chance for victory was to free the 52 Americans held captive before Election Day. That was something that Mr. Barnes said his mentor was determined to prevent.

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His mentor was John B. Connally Jr., a titan of American politics and former Texas governor who had served three presidents and just lost his own bid for the White House. A former Democrat, Mr. Connally had sought the Republican nomination in 1980 only to be swamped by former Gov. Ronald Reagan of California. Now Mr. Connally resolved to help Mr. Reagan beat Mr. Carter and in the process, Mr. Barnes said, make his own case for becoming secretary of state or defense in a new administration.

What happened next Mr. Barnes has largely kept secret for nearly 43 years. Mr. Connally, he said, took him to one Middle Eastern capital after another that summer, meeting with a host of regional leaders to deliver a blunt message to be passed to Iran: Don’t release the hostages before the election. Mr. Reagan will win and give you a better deal.

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Then shortly after returning home, Mr. Barnes said, Mr. Connally reported to William J. Casey, the chairman of Mr. Reagan’s campaign and later director of the Central Intelligence Agency, briefing him about the trip in an airport lounge.

Mr. Carter’s camp has long suspected that Mr. Casey or someone else in Mr. Reagan’s orbit sought to secretly torpedo efforts to liberate the hostages before the election, and books have been written on what came to be called the October surprise. But congressional investigations debunked previous theories of what happened.

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Mr. Connally did not figure in those investigations. His involvement, as described by Mr. Barnes, adds a new understanding to what may have happened in that hard-fought, pivotal election year. With Mr. Carter now 98 and in hospice care, Mr. Barnes said he felt compelled to come forward to correct the record.

“History needs to know that this happened,” Mr. Barnes, who turns 85 next month, said in one of several interviews, his first with a news organization about the episode. “I think it’s so significant and I guess knowing that the end is near for President Carter put it on my mind more and more and more. I just feel like we’ve got to get it down some way.”

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Posted

This story left my wife and I depressed.   Now Reagan, Connolly, and Barnes, plus the campaign team, were pieces of shit.  The absolute moral collapse of,Republican leadership goes way back.  I am particularly sick of my vote for Reagan over Carter.  Have been for many years.  
 

There were threads on prior boards that were just hateful and thoughtless on Carter.  Don’t see much of that, now.   But that’s this board.

Posted

I wasn't old enough to vote for Reagan over Carter, but I was old enough to vote for him in 1984, and I did.  I was young and stupid and impressed by his recovery from the assassination attempt.

image.jpeg.5c61159095287e0ebdc7f6f8c32df912.jpeg

Posted
  On 3/18/2023 at 11:13 PM, jimmyjazz said:

Anyone with a pulse and a functioning brain stem knew Reagan's team had interfered with a hostage release before his inauguration.  It was just one of many underhanded things he did over the course of his Presidency.  The man was evil.  So was his wife.

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but she sucked a mean dick. allegedly.

Posted

Jimmy

I was 26 for that first choice.  Like an infantile I still held the windfall profits tax against him, and as repented church of christ grooming product I was uncomfortable with his outward religiosity.   As with you , that assassination attempt garnered him 10 million sympathy votes, including mine.   Still. 🤮

Posted

guess at some point I'll need to do some reading on why people back then hated Jimmy so much (and many olds still do). I don't get it. Compared to everyone after him he seems like a kitty cat.

Posted
  On 3/19/2023 at 9:24 PM, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

guess at some point I'll need to do some reading on why people back then hated Jimmy so much (and many olds still do). I don't get it. Compared to everyone after him he seems like a kitty cat.

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Jonathan Alter's relatively recent biography of him is pretty solid.

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Posted
  On 3/19/2023 at 9:28 PM, Willfully Horn said:

Gas prices. That was the reason.

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It wasn’t just that. The first OPEC oil embargo happened in ‘73 while Nixon was in office. There were gas lines then. Both the Nixon and Ford administrations dealt with economic woes. The Iranian Revolution brought another gas crisis as we lost that trading partner. Carter lowered the speed limit to 55 mph. That was a drag. But the hostage crisis was a really big deal. Every evening the nightly news would start their broadcast with an update on how many days the hostages had been held. “The Hostage Crisis - Day 257,” and so on. Day after day after day after day. That constant drumbeat was disheartening. And then the failed rescue attempt. It was just too much. 

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Posted
  On 3/19/2023 at 11:54 PM, WhatTheBuck said:

It wasn’t just that. The first OPEC oil embargo happened in ‘73 while Nixon was in office. There were gas lines then. Both the Nixon and Ford administrations dealt with economic woes. The Iranian Revolution brought another gas crisis as we lost that trading partner. Carter lowered the speed limit to 55 mph. That was a drag. But the hostage crisis was a really big deal. Every evening the nightly news would start their broadcast with an update on how many days the hostages had been held. “The Hostage Crisis - Day 257,” and so on. Day after day after day after day. That constant drumbeat was disheartening. And then the failed rescue attempt. It was just too much. 

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Your post is correct, but it was at the pump that US voters were reminded of both inflation and the hostage crisis. 

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Posted (edited)
  On 3/19/2023 at 11:54 PM, WhatTheBuck said:

It wasn’t just that. The first OPEC oil embargo happened in ‘73 while Nixon was in office. There were gas lines then. Both the Nixon and Ford administrations dealt with economic woes. The Iranian Revolution brought another gas crisis as we lost that trading partner. Carter lowered the speed limit to 55 mph. That was a drag. But the hostage crisis was a really big deal. Every evening the nightly news would start their broadcast with an update on how many days the hostages had been held. “The Hostage Crisis - Day 257,” and so on. Day after day after day after day. That constant drumbeat was disheartening. And then the failed rescue attempt. It was just too much. 

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The economy really sucked during the Carter administration.  Gas prices, inflation, blah, blah, blah.  Cars sucked, Detroit was going in the shitter, we had ugly little Japanese econoboxes running around.  Pintos, Chevettes, Pacers.  Gross.

It might not have been fair, but he just seemed weak and ineffectual.  At least that's the way I remember it.

Edited by TwiceHorn
Posted
  On 3/19/2023 at 9:24 PM, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

guess at some point I'll need to do some reading on why people back then hated Jimmy so much (and many olds still do). I don't get it. Compared to everyone after him he seems like a kitty cat.

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Hostage crisis situation was a huge one.  Toss in the Panama Canal stuff - there were still folks from armybrat's generation that remember when it was completed and how proud they were of it, only for Carter to give it away 60 years later.

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Posted
  On 3/20/2023 at 12:28 AM, F250 said:

I'm a little surprised by how many people voted in the 1980 election. Just how old are you people?

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Surly trends pretty high in the age bracket.  If you told me the average age was in the upper 30s, I'd absolutely believe it.  Start a 1970s or 1980s nostalgia thread and see how many flock to it.

Posted
  On 3/19/2023 at 11:54 PM, WhatTheBuck said:

It wasn’t just that. The first OPEC oil embargo happened in ‘73 while Nixon was in office. There were gas lines then. Both the Nixon and Ford administrations dealt with economic woes. The Iranian Revolution brought another gas crisis as we lost that trading partner. Carter lowered the speed limit to 55 mph. That was a drag. But the hostage crisis was a really big deal. Every evening the nightly news would start their broadcast with an update on how many days the hostages had been held. “The Hostage Crisis - Day 257,” and so on. Day after day after day after day. That constant drumbeat was disheartening. And then the failed rescue attempt. It was just too much. 

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We must be about the same age. My dad always made sure the news was on during dinner (we'd better hush up), and that's pretty much my recollection of it. It was all hostages all of the time. Shit, I think that's even how the program Nightline got started. Carter never had a chance because of it and the wall-to-wall, pre-cable news coverage.

Posted
  On 3/20/2023 at 12:57 AM, Celery Man said:

the-hangover-zach-galifianakis.gif

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 I am probably off a bit - the average Surly age could be higher - into the 40s, because it doesn't feel like there are a lot of 20-somethings around to bring the average down, and Surly has a long history behind it.

Not to stereotype but it feels like a lot of the under 30 crowd are found elsewhere (social media, reddit, etc.), while the 30 and up crowd would have been exposed more to stand-alone niche forums (going back to AOL and dial-up BBSes and usenet before that).

This is the wrong thread to figure it out though, because this thread's followers are automatically going to be older.

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Posted

Doesn’t get enough credit for his KotH episode either.
 

“Jesus Christ?  No Bobby, just a one termed peanut farmer”.   

“Wait, you guys told me this thing was bullet proof!!” 

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Posted
  On 3/20/2023 at 12:28 AM, F250 said:

I'm a little surprised by how many people voted in the 1980 election. Just how old are you people?

 

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right?? i thought GenX was the largest surly contingent...my memories of the Carter presidency only include boredom in the backseat while parents waited in gas lines and Dan Akroyd.

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Posted
  On 3/20/2023 at 3:24 AM, mchookem said:

anyways, hasn't he been in hospice for several weeks now? in my experiences hospice rarely lasted more than 4-5 days. strong old dude.

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Many only go into hospice care in the final days but it’s more about forgoing curative medicine and dealing with comfort. Some people could last years.

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Posted

Interest rates were unbelievably high during the Carter administration.  Mortgage rates were like 15% if not more.  That kind of became a rally cry for Pubs for years after.  "Elect a Dem and watch interest rates soar."

Posted (edited)

Discussed before, but the religious right banded against him because they felt like he betrayed them. He didn't impose 'Christianity based sharia law', he supported rights for women and gays, and he sided with the anti-'religious freedom' folks (defined as 'we can legally discriminate and be tax exempt') 

Edited by NWBuck


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