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Jimmy Carter

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NAVY

NAVY 6739

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5 hours ago, Underdog said:

They should tell Trump he'll get his invite in two weeks. 

Since it’s difficult to prosecute a president, I’d like to see the executive branch police their own. Bush II, Clinton and Obama put a fierce beat down on the orange turd. 
 

 

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89452

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Holy shit, while I vaguely remember him as President, never knew this about Mary Prince, the nanny they chose for Amy when Jimmy was Governor of Georgia and then President.:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Prince_(nanny)

Quote

She and her cousin Aniemaude had gone into a bar in Lumpkin, and Aniemaude had got into an argument. In 1977 Mary said: “I went outside and heard a shot. Aniemaude and this woman were fighting over Aniemaude’s gun. I didn’t know anything about guns, but I tried to take it away and it went off. We didn’t know it had hit anyone.” Clare Crawford added: "The other woman, however, claimed that Mary seized the gun and deliberately fired it, killing the woman’s boyfriend."

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Prince was defended by a white court-appointed lawyer whom she first met on the day of the trial. In 1977, she said "I was under the impression I was pleading guilty to involuntary manslaughter, but it turned out to be murder." Jimmy Carter (in 2005) and Kate Andersen Brower (in 2015) both wrote that her lawyer advised her to plead guilty and promised a light sentence. Clare Crawford wrote in 1977 that "Her attorney says that he read the indictment to Mary before she made her plea". Prince said in 1977 that she saw her lawyer twice for 10 or 15 minutes and that she spent a total of less than an hour in court before receiving her life sentence.

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Jimmy Carter says Prince was lucky the dead man was not white, as she would then have "likely" suffered the fate of Lena Baker, a black woman pardoned in 2005, 60 years after being executed by electric chair. Rosalynn Carter says that she was convicted because of the color of her skin.

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Prince became Amy's nanny in 1971 while Jimmy Carter was governor of Georgia and she was a trusty prisoner assigned to the governor's mansion, after being interviewed in December 1970 and chosen that month by Rosalynn Carter to look after Amy because Rosalynn was convinced of her innocence.

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In 1975, when Jimmy Carter's term as governor ended, Prince was sent back to prison. However, in January 1977 she was able to travel to Washington for Carter's inauguration as U.S. president. Partly thanks to a letter to the parole board by First Lady Rosalynn Carter, and partly thanks to Jimmy Carter, who asked to be designated as her parole officer, Prince was reprieved, and was able to live and work at the White House for the four years of Carter's presidency.

Jimmy asked to be her parole officer so she could travel to D.C. and work at the White House.  Meanwhile, we have all these "Christian" Republican politicians who would never in a million years volunteer to be the parole officer of somebody convicted of murder because they believed in their innocence.  Especially somebody that was black.

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28715

Posted
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23 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Holy shit, while I vaguely remember him as President, never knew this about Mary Prince, the nanny they chose for Amy when Jimmy was Governor of Georgia and then President.:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Prince_(nanny)

Jimmy asked to be her parole officer so she could travel to D.C. and work at the White House.  Meanwhile, we have all these "Christian" Republican politicians who would never in a million years volunteer to be the parole officer of somebody convicted of murder because they believed in their innocence.  Especially somebody that was black.

Couldn’t Jimmy have pardoned her when he was Governor?

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Hagbard Celine

Hagbard Celine 10763

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As we ready for his passing there remains one minor bit of intrigue from his Presidency.....  and it involves the Canadian Caper.  (The Vela Incident is now pretty much attributed to the Israelis with South African help.)

The whole line of investigation began when watching Argo and with the knowledge that in 1980 Swissair only owned two 747s and they were both used ZRH<->JFK and everything else in the Swissair network was either DC-10s or DC-8s; the Americans did not depart Tehran on a 747 (and oh by the way the Brown stripe Swissair livery was introduced in 1981, a year after it was depicted on the 747 that didn't operate to Tehran: http://www.sr692.com/design/livery/standard.html).  These liberties taken by Affleck in Argo tweaked my airline authoritai.

So, off to the wiki, which tells the story https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Caper:

Quote

Early on the morning of Sunday, January 27, 1980, Mendez, "Julio", and the six American diplomats, traveling with real Canadian passports and forged entry documents, easily made it through security at Tehran's Mehrabad International Airport.[2][non-primary source needed] After a short delay because of mechanical difficulties with the McDonnell Douglas DC-8-62, the group boarded Swissair flight 363 (Registration: HB-IDL) for Zürich, Switzerland. By coincidence, the aircraft was named Aargau,[14] after the Aargau canton in northern Switzerland.

case closed, right?

then i ran across another article which was suspicious:

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-oscars-argo-swissair/former-swissair-manager-says-argo-scenes-realistic-idUSLNE91P00N20130226

The post-war Western European flag carriers (including TWA and Pan American) that operated far-flung inter-continental networks RARELY operated thin routes over 2000 miles on a daily basis, so the question remained alive when the Swissair station manager claimed "they operated to Zurich daily".

I went away from the question for a couple of years, but then ran across this article from Radio Canada that was first published on 28 January 2014 then republished 27 January 2017:

https://www.rcinet.ca/en/2017/01/27/canada-history-jan-27-1980-the-famous-canadian-caper-rescue/

Someone at RCI saw fit to leave the original on the same page and not over write it, and in doing so, it uncovers a slight anomaly.   The 28 January 2014 article opens with a departure date from Tehran of 28 January 1980.  The "updated" article re-published on 27 January 2017 edits the departure date from Tehran to agree with the wiki: 27 January 1980, a Sunday, which is how the departure was depicted by Affleck (except with the wrong metal in the wrong livery).  Were the different dates just an accident? (Also, BOAC merged with BEA to form British airways in 1974 so the depiction of a BOAC livery on a 747 in 1980 is also wrong, Ben).

So, to the Bat Cave!

There are 2 Swissair schedules that cover the winter of 1979/1980.  One is the English-only North American timetable, the other the tri-lingual European/Worldwide Timetable/Horaire/Flugplan.   One was easy to procure within a week; the other took 2 years for a set ebay search to deliver the item.

They both confirm the same information for the winter of 1979/1980:

SR 362 ZRH 2.4.5.7 2235-0555 THR+1 D8S Nonstop

SR 363 THR 1.3.5.6 0740-1040 ZRH D8S Nonstop

Thus, the only way to jive Swissair metal operating SR 363 on a Sunday in January of 1980 was for the "slight mechanical delay" to have actually been a 24-hour delay by the Swiss, i.e. SR362 must have been delayed by 24 hours.  The Swiss complicity in the caper can be discerned by the tell from the station manager.  No flag carrier operated Intercontinental routes on a daily basis in the 1980s with the exception of North America <-> Europe and Australia<->Europe but with stops in Singapore, India or the Middle East.

++++

postscript:

The Swiss declared themselves Neutral in 1515, and finally joined the United Nations in 2002.  Ben Affleck dissed the Canadians and didn't even invite former Ambassador Ken Taylor to the premiere in Toronto, and Taylor was living there at the time.  2 other Canadians, John Sheardown and his wife Zena were omitted entirely from the movie, despite their critical work that endangered their own lives.  The CIA were the junior partner in the affair.  Final confirmation of the "slight mechanical delay" would be available with research of the published schedules for the other European flag carriers operating to Tehran and on which 6 backup tickets were purchased for every subsequent flight "that day".

But in summary, the CIA operation would not have been coded GREEN GREEN without knowledge of a Sunday morning departure, which Swissair was not scheduled to operate.

Therefore, President Jimmy Carter was the first US President since the Treaty of Paris in 1815 to effect a break in Swiss neutrality, either through overt cooperation in the delay of the outbound Flight 362, or possibly overt CIA "influence" over the airworthiness of the metal on night of Friday 25 January.  I would prefer to believe the former.

Or maybe it was Utah.

 

 

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Hagbard Celine

Hagbard Celine 10763

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the closest we have come to disclosure:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Carter_UFO_incident

"The sighting is said to have had a personal impact on Carter and his perception of UFOs and UFO sightings. During his 1976 election campaign, he is said to have told reporters that, as a result of it, he would institute a policy of openness if he were elected to office, saying:

'One thing's for sure, I'll never make fun of people who say they've seen unidentified objects in the sky. If I become President, I'll make every piece of information this country has about UFO sightings available to the public and the scientists.'

Despite his earlier pledge, once elected, Carter distanced himself from disclosure, citing "defense implications" as being behind his decision."

+++

"Defense Implications"

i like that

i will use that

thank you jimmy

godspeed

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Hagbard Celine

Hagbard Celine 10763

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On 2/20/2023 at 4:57 PM, atomheartbevo said:

Skunk Works were doing some crazy stuff in the 70s (and 50s and 60s).

the kerfuffle over tom cruises' "darkstar" is hilarious for the boys and girls who were and still are involved....

beginning in june '91 through april '92, at 7am on thursday mornings, earthquake monitors on the california coast registered the same seismographic wave pattern unlike any other known aircraft, traveling "several" times the speed of sound.....

the combined cycle engine in maverick's "doesn't exist yet SR-72" is a concept older than many reading this and first deployed during the days of fred and mcwilliams....

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1992-04-17-me-607-story.html

here's a 30-year-old book for anyone that wants a head start catching up:

https://www.amazon.com/Aurora-Pentagons-Hypersonic-Spyplane-Mil-Tech/dp/0879387807/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1RQWM34QJRN3P&keywords=bill+sweetman+aurora&qid=1678831153&sprefix=bill+sweetman+aurora%2Caps%2C1051&sr=8-1

anyone that wants to carry on from there, lmk and i can point you to several paths to chapel perilous

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Longhorn_Fan68

Longhorn_Fan68 33844

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57 minutes ago, Voldemort86 said:

Did Carter vote democrat all his life? Didn’t the party change quite a bit after he left office?

The word is democratic. Democrat is a noun. Democratic is an adjective. When you are describing something, but not referring to the subject itself, you use an adjective. You should have learned that at the very least at the great University of Texas, which you clearly attended.

Anyway, what kind of question is that? Do you seriously not know the answer?

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Francisco 2.0

Francisco 2.0 32345

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https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/18/us/politics/jimmy-carter-october-surprise-iran-hostages.html?unlocked_article_code=RxbET6pEXlHrK7yP0BjF9vWb0rg1bbMR5-FgaZ2Nv5AC8654Mt5QyA5zcJNY3xhNJ1fa_McPNMA-d90iw4_CrIgP4_plWTsFbMnFY9oFqXriLRkNWvImQL43K1SWPB15Cr1axJswZuNG0gnSdsY5kLMogtr2bdrBf4l8qSjz1sWvxIfgU1PsR3ixmLC2zJMCE9MNvtF1cuWjAJrw4KEJTuEzGtskP-pfRM0zKeztAtOjA20uZQHMvmM_ubF5NumpGEgwSzZ0kRcBtyGwcP8tlUll-PNZT_kdyRBkDeb0_az8INaz_AzPtf1s09R_5e1F5UrNgITslTvV5jZxxWyTKOKiG3DRNfEUJBeCYnI-jx5J-8GzlfiS2RE&smid=tw-share

 

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It has been more than four decades, but Ben Barnes said he remembers it vividly. His longtime political mentor invited him on a mission to the Middle East. What Mr. Barnes said he did not realize until later was the real purpose of the mission: to sabotage the re-election campaign of the president of the United States.

It was 1980 and Jimmy Carter was in the White House, bedeviled by a hostage crisis in Iran that had paralyzed his presidency and hampered his effort to win a second term. Mr. Carter’s best chance for victory was to free the 52 Americans held captive before Election Day. That was something that Mr. Barnes said his mentor was determined to prevent.

 

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His mentor was John B. Connally Jr., a titan of American politics and former Texas governor who had served three presidents and just lost his own bid for the White House. A former Democrat, Mr. Connally had sought the Republican nomination in 1980 only to be swamped by former Gov. Ronald Reagan of California. Now Mr. Connally resolved to help Mr. Reagan beat Mr. Carter and in the process, Mr. Barnes said, make his own case for becoming secretary of state or defense in a new administration.

What happened next Mr. Barnes has largely kept secret for nearly 43 years. Mr. Connally, he said, took him to one Middle Eastern capital after another that summer, meeting with a host of regional leaders to deliver a blunt message to be passed to Iran: Don’t release the hostages before the election. Mr. Reagan will win and give you a better deal.

 

Quote

Then shortly after returning home, Mr. Barnes said, Mr. Connally reported to William J. Casey, the chairman of Mr. Reagan’s campaign and later director of the Central Intelligence Agency, briefing him about the trip in an airport lounge.

Mr. Carter’s camp has long suspected that Mr. Casey or someone else in Mr. Reagan’s orbit sought to secretly torpedo efforts to liberate the hostages before the election, and books have been written on what came to be called the October surprise. But congressional investigations debunked previous theories of what happened.

 

Quote

Mr. Connally did not figure in those investigations. His involvement, as described by Mr. Barnes, adds a new understanding to what may have happened in that hard-fought, pivotal election year. With Mr. Carter now 98 and in hospice care, Mr. Barnes said he felt compelled to come forward to correct the record.

“History needs to know that this happened,” Mr. Barnes, who turns 85 next month, said in one of several interviews, his first with a news organization about the episode. “I think it’s so significant and I guess knowing that the end is near for President Carter put it on my mind more and more and more. I just feel like we’ve got to get it down some way.”

 

 

Spoiler

Mr. Barnes is no shady foreign arms dealer with questionable credibility, like some of the characters who fueled previous iterations of the October surprise theory. He was once one of the most prominent figures in Texas, the youngest speaker of the Texas House of Representatives and later lieutenant governor. He was such an influential figure that he helped a young George W. Bush get into the Texas Air National Guard rather than be exposed to the draft and sent to Vietnam. Lyndon B. Johnson predicted that Mr. Barnes would become president someday.

Confirming Mr. Barnes’s account is problematic after so much time. Mr. Connally, Mr. Casey and other central figures have long since died and Mr. Barnes has no diaries or memos to corroborate his account. But he has no obvious reason to make up the story and indeed expressed trepidation at going public because of the reaction of fellow Democrats.

Mr. Barnes identified four living people he said he had confided in over the years: Mark K. Updegrove, president of the L.B.J. Foundation; Tom Johnson, a former aide to Lyndon Johnson (no relation) who later became publisher of the Los Angeles Times and president of CNN; Larry Temple, a former aide to Mr. Connally and Lyndon Johnson; and H.W. Brands, a University of Texas historian.

All four of them confirmed in recent days that Mr. Barnes shared the story with them years ago. “As far as I know, Ben never has lied to me,” Tom Johnson said, a sentiment the others echoed. Mr. Brands included three paragraphs about Mr. Barnes’s recollections in a 2015 biography of Mr. Reagan, but the account generated little public notice at the time.

Records at the Lyndon Baines Johnson Library and Museumconfirm part of Mr. Barnes’s story. An itinerary found this past week in Mr. Connally’s files indicated that he did, in fact, leave Houston on July 18, 1980, for a trip that would take him to Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Israel before returning to Houston on Aug. 11. Mr. Barnes was listed as accompanying him.

Brief news accounts at the time reported on some of Mr. Connally’s stops with scant detail, describing the trip as “strictly private.” An intriguing note in Mr. Connally’s file confirms Mr. Barnes’s memory that there was contact with the Reagan camp early in the trip. Under the heading “Governor Reagan,” a note from an assistant reported to Mr. Connally on July 21: “Nancy Reagan called — they are at Ranch he wants to talk to you about being in on strategy meetings.” There was no record of his response.

Mr. Barnes recalled joining Mr. Connally in early September to sit down with Mr. Casey to report on their trip during a three-hour meeting in the American Airlines lounge at what was then called the Dallas/Fort Worth Regional Airport. An entry in Mr. Connally’s calendar found this past week showed that he traveled to Dallas on Sept. 10. A search of Mr. Casey’s archives at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University turned up no documents indicating whether he was in Dallas then or not.

Mr. Barnes said he was certain the point of Mr. Connally’s trip was to get a message to the Iranians to hold the hostages until after the election. “I’ll go to my grave believing that it was the purpose of the trip,” he said. “It wasn’t freelancing because Casey was so interested in hearing as soon as we got back to the United States.” Mr. Casey, he added, wanted to know whether “they were going to hold the hostages.”

None of that establishes whether Mr. Reagan knew about the trip, nor could Mr. Barnes say that Mr. Casey directed Mr. Connally to take the journey. Likewise, he does not know if the message transmitted to multiple Middle Eastern leaders got to the Iranians, much less whether it influenced their decision making. But Iran did hold the hostages until after the election, which Mr. Reagan won, and did not release them until minutes after noon on Jan. 20, 1981, when Mr. Carter left office.

John B. Connally III, the former governor’s eldest son, said in an interview on Friday that he remembered his father taking the Middle East trip but never heard about any message to Iran. While he did not join the trip, the younger Mr. Connally said he accompanied his father to a meeting with Mr. Reagan to discuss it without Mr. Barnes and the conversation centered on the Arab-Israeli conflict and other issues the next president would confront.

“No mention was made in any meeting I was in about any message being sent to the Iranians,” said Mr. Connally. “It doesn’t sound like my dad.” He added: “I can’t challenge Ben’s memory about it, but it’s not consistent with my memory of the trip.”

Suspicions about the Reagan camp’s interactions with Iran circulated quietly for years until Gary Sick, a former national security aide to Mr. Carter, published a guest essay in The New York Times in April 1991 advancing the theory, followed by a book, “October Surprise,” published that November.

The term “October surprise” was originally used by the Reagan camp to describe its fears that Mr. Carter would manipulate the hostage crisis to effect a release just before the election.

To forestall such a scenario, Mr. Casey was alleged to have met with representatives of Iran in July and August 1980 in Madrid leading to a deal supposedly finalized in Paris in October in which a future Reagan administration would ship arms to Tehran through Israel in exchange for the hostages being held until after the election.

The House and Senate separately authorized investigations and both ultimately rejected the claims. The bipartisan House task force, led by a Democrat, Representative Lee H. Hamilton of Indiana, and controlled by Democrats 8 to 5, concluded in a consensus 968-page report that Mr. Casey was not in Madrid at the time and that stories of covert dealings were not backed by credible testimony, documents or intelligence reports.

Reached by telephone this past week, Mr. Sick said he never heard of any involvement by Mr. Connally but saw Mr. Barnes’s account as verifying the broad concerns he had raised. “This is really very interesting and it really does add significantly to the base level of information on this,” Mr. Sick said. “Just the fact that he was doing it and debriefed Casey when he got back means a lot.” The story goes “further than anything that I’ve seen thus far,” he added. “So this is really new.”

Michael F. Zeldin, a Democratic lawyer for the task force, and David H. Laufman, a Republican lawyer for the task force, both said in recent interviews that Mr. Connally never crossed their radar screen during the inquiry and so they had no basis to judge Mr. Barnes’s account.

While Mr. Casey was never proved to have been engaged in any October surprise deal-making, he was later accused of surreptitiously obtaining a Carter campaign briefing book before the lone debate between the two candidates, although he denied involvement.

News of Mr. Barnes’s account came as validation to some of Mr. Carter’s remaining advisers. Gerald Rafshoon, who was his White House communications director, said any interference may have changed history. “If we had gotten the hostages home, we’d have won, I really believe that,” he said. “It’s pretty damn outrageous.”

Mr. Connally was a political giant of his era. Raised on a South Texas cotton farm, he served in the Navy in World War II and became a confidant of Lyndon B. Johnson, helping run five of his campaigns, including his disputed 1948 election to the Senate that was marred by credible allegations of fraud. Mr. Connally managed Mr. Johnson’s unsuccessful bid for the Democratic presidential nomination in 1960, then worked for the ticket of John F. Kennedy and Mr. Johnson. Mr. Connally was rewarded with an appointment as secretary of the Navy. He then won a race for governor of Texas in 1962.

He was in the presidential limousine sitting just in front of Mr. Kennedy in Dallas in November 1963 when Lee Harvey Oswald opened fire. Mr. Connally suffered injuries to his back, chest, wrist and thigh, but unlike Mr. Kennedy survived the ordeal. He won two more terms as governor, then became President Richard M. Nixon’s secretary of the Treasury and ultimately switched parties. He was a favorite of Mr. Nixon, who wanted to make him his vice president or successor as president.

Mr. Connally was indicted on charges of perjury and conspiracy to obstruct justice in 1974, accused by prosecutors of taking $10,000 to support a milk price increase, but acquitted by a jury.

Along the way, Mr. Connally found a political protégé in Mr. Barnes, who became “more a godson than a friend,” as James Reston Jr. put it in “The Lone Star,” his biography of Mr. Connally. The son of a peanut farmer who paid for college selling vacuum cleaners door to door, Mr. Barnes was elected to the Texas Legislature at age 21 and stood at Mr. Connally’s side for his first speech as a candidate for governor in 1962

With Mr. Connally’s help, Mr. Barnes became House speaker at 26 and was later elected lieutenant governor, a powerful position in Texas, only to fall short in his own bid for governor in 1972. He urged Mr. Connally to run for president in 1980 even though by then they were in different parties.

After Mr. Connally’s campaign collapsed, he and Mr. Barnes went into business together, forming Barnes/Connally Investments. The two built apartment complexes, shopping centers and office buildings, and bought a commuter airline and an oil company, and later a barbecue house, a Western art magazine, a title company and an advertising company. But they overextended themselves, took on too much debt and, after falling oil prices shattered the Texas real estate market, filed for bankruptcy in 1987.

The two stayed on good terms. “In spite of the disillusionment of our business arrangements, Ben Barnes and I remain friends, although I doubt that either of us would go back into business with the other,” Mr. Connally wrote in his memoir, “In History’s Shadow,”shortly before dying in 1993 at age 76. Mr. Barnes, for his part, said this past week that “I remain a great fan of him.”

Mr. Barnes said he had no idea of the purpose of the Middle East trip when Mr. Connally invited him. They traveled to the region on a Gulfstream jet owned by Superior Oil. Only when they sat down with the first Arab leader did Mr. Barnes learn what Mr. Connally was up to, he said.

Mr. Connally said, “‘Look, Ronald Reagan’s going to be elected president and you need to get the word to Iran that they’re going to make a better deal with Reagan than they are Carter,’” Mr. Barnes recalled. “He said, ‘It would be very smart for you to pass the word to the Iranians to wait until after this general election is over.’ And boy, I tell you, I’m sitting there and I heard it and so now it dawns on me, I realize why we’re there.”

Mr. Barnes said that, except for Israel, Mr. Connally repeated the same message at every stop in the region to leaders such as President Anwar el-Sadat of Egypt. He thought his friend’s motive was clear. “It became very clear to me that Connally was running for secretary of state or secretary of defense,” Mr. Barnes said. (Mr. Connally was later offered energy secretary but declined.)

Mr. Barnes said he did not reveal the real story at the time to avoid blowback from his own party. “I don’t want to look like Benedict Arnold to the Democratic Party by participating in this,” he recalled explaining to a friend. The headlines at the time, he imagined, would have been scandalous. “I did not want that to be on my obituary at all.”

But as the years have passed, he said, he has often thought an injustice had been done to Mr. Carter. Discussing the trip now, he indicated, was his way of making amends. “I just want history to reflect that Carter got a little bit of a bad deal about the hostages,” he said. “He didn’t have a fighting chance with those hostages still in the embassy in Iran.”

 

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45560

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Anyone with a pulse and a functioning brain stem knew Reagan's team had interfered with a hostage release before his inauguration.  It was just one of many underhanded things he did over the course of his Presidency.  The man was evil.  So was his wife.

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nbmishoid

nbmishoid 941

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This story left my wife and I depressed.   Now Reagan, Connolly, and Barnes, plus the campaign team, were pieces of shit.  The absolute moral collapse of,Republican leadership goes way back.  I am particularly sick of my vote for Reagan over Carter.  Have been for many years.  
 

There were threads on prior boards that were just hateful and thoughtless on Carter.  Don’t see much of that, now.   But that’s this board.

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Longhorn_Fan68

Longhorn_Fan68 33844

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21 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Anyone with a pulse and a functioning brain stem knew Reagan's team had interfered with a hostage release before his inauguration.  It was just one of many underhanded things he did over the course of his Presidency.  The man was evil.  So was his wife.

but she sucked a mean dick. allegedly.

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nbmishoid

nbmishoid 941

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Jimmy

I was 26 for that first choice.  Like an infantile I still held the windfall profits tax against him, and as repented church of christ grooming product I was uncomfortable with his outward religiosity.   As with you , that assassination attempt garnered him 10 million sympathy votes, including mine.   Still. 🤮

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safe sex

safe sex 11684

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

guess at some point I'll need to do some reading on why people back then hated Jimmy so much (and many olds still do). I don't get it. Compared to everyone after him he seems like a kitty cat.

Jonathan Alter's relatively recent biography of him is pretty solid.

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28715

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2 hours ago, Willfully Horn said:

Gas prices. That was the reason.

It wasn’t just that. The first OPEC oil embargo happened in ‘73 while Nixon was in office. There were gas lines then. Both the Nixon and Ford administrations dealt with economic woes. The Iranian Revolution brought another gas crisis as we lost that trading partner. Carter lowered the speed limit to 55 mph. That was a drag. But the hostage crisis was a really big deal. Every evening the nightly news would start their broadcast with an update on how many days the hostages had been held. “The Hostage Crisis - Day 257,” and so on. Day after day after day after day. That constant drumbeat was disheartening. And then the failed rescue attempt. It was just too much. 

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Willfully Horn

Willfully Horn 7919

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28 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

It wasn’t just that. The first OPEC oil embargo happened in ‘73 while Nixon was in office. There were gas lines then. Both the Nixon and Ford administrations dealt with economic woes. The Iranian Revolution brought another gas crisis as we lost that trading partner. Carter lowered the speed limit to 55 mph. That was a drag. But the hostage crisis was a really big deal. Every evening the nightly news would start their broadcast with an update on how many days the hostages had been held. “The Hostage Crisis - Day 257,” and so on. Day after day after day after day. That constant drumbeat was disheartening. And then the failed rescue attempt. It was just too much. 

Your post is correct, but it was at the pump that US voters were reminded of both inflation and the hostage crisis. 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31293

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31 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

It wasn’t just that. The first OPEC oil embargo happened in ‘73 while Nixon was in office. There were gas lines then. Both the Nixon and Ford administrations dealt with economic woes. The Iranian Revolution brought another gas crisis as we lost that trading partner. Carter lowered the speed limit to 55 mph. That was a drag. But the hostage crisis was a really big deal. Every evening the nightly news would start their broadcast with an update on how many days the hostages had been held. “The Hostage Crisis - Day 257,” and so on. Day after day after day after day. That constant drumbeat was disheartening. And then the failed rescue attempt. It was just too much. 

The economy really sucked during the Carter administration.  Gas prices, inflation, blah, blah, blah.  Cars sucked, Detroit was going in the shitter, we had ugly little Japanese econoboxes running around.  Pintos, Chevettes, Pacers.  Gross.

It might not have been fair, but he just seemed weak and ineffectual.  At least that's the way I remember it.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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3 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

guess at some point I'll need to do some reading on why people back then hated Jimmy so much (and many olds still do). I don't get it. Compared to everyone after him he seems like a kitty cat.

Hostage crisis situation was a huge one.  Toss in the Panama Canal stuff - there were still folks from armybrat's generation that remember when it was completed and how proud they were of it, only for Carter to give it away 60 years later.

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15 minutes ago, F250 said:

I'm a little surprised by how many people voted in the 1980 election. Just how old are you people?

Surly trends pretty high in the age bracket.  If you told me the average age was in the upper 30s, I'd absolutely believe it.  Start a 1970s or 1980s nostalgia thread and see how many flock to it.

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59 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

It wasn’t just that. The first OPEC oil embargo happened in ‘73 while Nixon was in office. There were gas lines then. Both the Nixon and Ford administrations dealt with economic woes. The Iranian Revolution brought another gas crisis as we lost that trading partner. Carter lowered the speed limit to 55 mph. That was a drag. But the hostage crisis was a really big deal. Every evening the nightly news would start their broadcast with an update on how many days the hostages had been held. “The Hostage Crisis - Day 257,” and so on. Day after day after day after day. That constant drumbeat was disheartening. And then the failed rescue attempt. It was just too much. 

We must be about the same age. My dad always made sure the news was on during dinner (we'd better hush up), and that's pretty much my recollection of it. It was all hostages all of the time. Shit, I think that's even how the program Nightline got started. Carter never had a chance because of it and the wall-to-wall, pre-cable news coverage.

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43 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

the-hangover-zach-galifianakis.gif

 I am probably off a bit - the average Surly age could be higher - into the 40s, because it doesn't feel like there are a lot of 20-somethings around to bring the average down, and Surly has a long history behind it.

Not to stereotype but it feels like a lot of the under 30 crowd are found elsewhere (social media, reddit, etc.), while the 30 and up crowd would have been exposed more to stand-alone niche forums (going back to AOL and dial-up BBSes and usenet before that).

This is the wrong thread to figure it out though, because this thread's followers are automatically going to be older.

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mchookem

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2 hours ago, F250 said:

I'm a little surprised by how many people voted in the 1980 election. Just how old are you people?

 

right?? i thought GenX was the largest surly contingent...my memories of the Carter presidency only include boredom in the backseat while parents waited in gas lines and Dan Akroyd.

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10 minutes ago, mchookem said:

anyways, hasn't he been in hospice for several weeks now? in my experiences hospice rarely lasted more than 4-5 days. strong old dude.

Many only go into hospice care in the final days but it’s more about forgoing curative medicine and dealing with comfort. Some people could last years.

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NWBuck

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Discussed before, but the religious right banded against him because they felt like he betrayed them. He didn't impose 'Christianity based sharia law', he supported rights for women and gays, and he sided with the anti-'religious freedom' folks (defined as 'we can legally discriminate and be tax exempt') 

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