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YESSS, FINALLY!!! - Masters of the Air - The 8th Air Force, Spielberg, Hanks, Goetzman (Crew behind Band of Brothers, Pacific)

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1978horn
1978horn

Loving this show because it feels like it connects me with my grandfather. He flew the B-24, but I’ll take what I can get. One of my biggest regrets in life is not talking to him more when he was al

4th&Five
4th&Five
kevwun
kevwun

Covid screwed Greyhound.  It's an excellent movie.

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Deej

Deej 76,300

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1 hour ago, Helobious said:

Loved BoB and the pacific but probably won’t watch this. WW2 content is like the MCU now. Way too much of it and I’m just fatigued. Hard to believe there’s any more unique stories to tell.

 

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aggie08

aggie08 21,147

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1 hour ago, Helobious said:

Loved BoB and the pacific but probably won’t watch this. WW2 content is like the MCU now. Way too much of it and I’m just fatigued. Hard to believe there’s any more unique stories to tell.

You're aware that Marvel is make believe, yeah? WWII involves real people, so there are millions upon millions of unique stories. Most of which are pretty compelling because, again, the events actually happened. I'd wager to that your, and most American's (honestly, probably including myself), grasp of the timeline of events, battle map, and global reach only scratches the surface: Pearl Harbor, Nazis, Normandy, Holocaust, there were some Russians doing something, nukes, etc. 

Most don't know this story with any real depth.

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Helobious

Helobious 9,456

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If I do watch it’ll be in hopes of cool battle scenes. As far as the story goes I don’t see how it could be better or even close to as good as BoB since the format and subject matter is so similar, but I’m also not familiar with the specific backstory beyond knowing what the 8th Air Force was. So maybe I should just shut up. 

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Ghost of LL

Ghost of LL 15,321

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2 hours ago, Helobious said:

Loved BoB and the pacific but probably won’t watch this. WW2 content is like the MCU now. Way too much of it and I’m just fatigued. Hard to believe there’s any more unique stories to tell.

Jesus--you're just like a Bad-Take Machine, aren't you?

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89,283

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1 hour ago, GoPokes83 said:

After watching the trailer I’m a little underwhelmed. Looks like maybe they’re going to try and cover too many bases. Hope I’m wrong, I’m still really looking forward to it!

Yeah, I don't want to spoil things for something that happened 80 years ago....but it looks like from the trailer they are covering

  • The raids on Berlin
  • One or more of the crews that were shot down.  Some escaped with the local resistance, some were captured
  • The oil refinery campaigns against Ukraine/Romania (The Redtails provided support out of Italy for some of those missions which is probably why they make an appearance, but they should get their own series).  Those raids (and against Berlin) were so deep, that German fighter pilots had time to fight, land, refuel/rearm, and fight again.
  • Possibly support for D-Day operations

That's a lot for 9 episodes.  Band of Brothers would veer off into covering individual stories, but everybody was still focused on one mission with one outcome. Pacific diverged a lot more.  This could wander quite a bit - the aircrews that were shot down and made it to the Resistance or were captured, some of those guys have amazing stories that could encompass a whole show or movie.

Hell, they could almost do a series on Black Sunday in 1943 (not the 8th Air Force though) - US Army Air Forces lost 660 airmen, over 50 aircraft, and five Medals of Honor and 56 Distinguished Service Crosses were awarded just for that one raid.

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DDD Dad

DDD Dad 14,133

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I happened to be listening to NPR the other day and happened to catch this clip on the Nisei soldiers.

Pretty amazing story about which I was completely unaware.

https://www.npr.org/2023/11/10/1212389414/defining-courage-tells-the-story-of-wwii-nisei-soldiers

Seems like it would be an awesome BoB series subject.

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Macanudo

Macanudo 12,909

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On 11/10/2023 at 5:40 PM, atomheartbevo said:

Yeah, I don't want to spoil things for something that happened 80 years ago....but it looks like from the trailer they are covering

  • The raids on Berlin
  • One or more of the crews that were shot down.  Some escaped with the local resistance, some were captured
  • The oil refinery campaigns against Ukraine/Romania (The Redtails provided support out of Italy for some of those missions which is probably why they make an appearance, but they should get their own series).  Those raids (and against Berlin) were so deep, that German fighter pilots had time to fight, land, refuel/rearm, and fight again.
  • Possibly support for D-Day operations

That's a lot for 9 episodes.  Band of Brothers would veer off into covering individual stories, but everybody was still focused on one mission with one outcome. Pacific diverged a lot more.  This could wander quite a bit - the aircrews that were shot down and made it to the Resistance or were captured, some of those guys have amazing stories that could encompass a whole show or movie.

Hell, they could almost do a series on Black Sunday in 1943 (not the 8th Air Force though) - US Army Air Forces lost 660 airmen, over 50 aircraft, and five Medals of Honor and 56 Distinguished Service Crosses were awarded just for that one raid.

I'm going to watch because I know Hanks and Spielberg have put a tremedndous amount of effort into it but I have a lot of reservations. 

  • I realize that these airmen had down time in England and hence chased skirts.   That is a part of their story but I am afraid that it will be get mroe screen time than it should get in an effort to appeal to a broader audience.   BoB didn't focus on too much of the time Easy spent in England and outside of Doc Rowe's relationship wth the nurse in Bastogne, there is no other female character of note.   I'm worried that this one is going to be a little bit soap opera-y.  
  • I don't know if I agree with covering the Ploesti raid.   Yes, the 8th participated but their fame was made on raids like Schweinfurt, Big Week and Berlin.   Plus, Ploesti was kind of a waste of time and resources.  
  • The Red Tails are another part of the story that might get too much attention.  Before anyone freaks out on that statement, yes, those dudes were badasses.   They were amazing fliers and men.  Their record in the air on escort duty is phenomenal.   The racism of the time prevented more from becoming pilots.   But only 350 Tuskegee Airmen served in the ETO and 82 died in combat 23% loss rate.  I can't find numbers on overall P-51 pilot deaths but 2,000 planes got shot down.  3,500 P-47 were lost in combat.  Let's just say that the mortality rate was only 10% of those 6,500 aircraft loss.  If we take the same loss rate as the Tuskegee guys, about 1,400 P-51/P-47 pilots died in combat.   Like I said, the Tuskegee airmen's story is amazing and probably needs it's own fuller, richer telling.  
  • Knowing what we do now about the true effect of strategic bombing on the war effort (in both the ETO and Pacific), the exploits of Air Corps and the RAF seems very pyrrhic.  We sacrificed a lot of men, machines and money to do very little to effect the outcome of the war.  Add in the civilian deaths and, well, yeah, it was a huge boondoggle.   Dresden and Tokyo say hey.
  • Someone mentioned a Leyte Gulf mini-series.  That would be pretty good.   Taffy 3's fight is so remarkable and so few know about it.  
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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89,283

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I'm going to spoiler some shit, sorry it's annoying.  A historian I follow had a pretty good break down, and he's actually got a book coming out written with a B-17 crew member (who is still alive), and I'll find the video later.

1 hour ago, Macanudo said:

I realize that these airmen had down time in England and hence chased skirts.   

He thinks, based on the fact that Harry Crosby is listed as the narrator when you have captions on (well Crosby as portrayed by an actor), that the series will draw heavily from Crosby's book: A Wing and a Prayer: The "Bloody 100th" Bomb Group of the US Eighth Air Force in Action Over Europe in World War II, more so than Masters of the Air (the 100th BG was only a small part of that book).  There's humor in that book, so I'm guessing that's the scenes we are talking about.  Crosby's book is obviously focused solely on the 100th.

He described Crosby as potentially the Dick Winters of the series, as he was there for everything from the start to the end (he rose through the ranks and ultimately became the 100th's group navigator), and he also documented everything during and after the war, collected stories/information from the reunions, etc.   Some of the guys we think are main characters are either killed or are shot down, but Crosby made it through everything.

 

1 hour ago, Macanudo said:
  • I don't know if I agree with covering the Ploesti raid.  
  • The Red Tails are another part of the story that might get too much attention. 

I think I'm wrong and they won't cover the refinery raids. I didn't realize this until he pointed out that in the trailer, they appear to be in a prison of sorts (there are bars over the windows/doors), which is most likely Stalag Luft III, a POW prison run by the Luftwaffe.  

The main character (or one of the main characters) of Masters of the Air is Major Gale "Buck" Cleven (Austin Butler, the guy below) and after he was shot down, he ended up  in Stalag Luft III POW prison with a group of Tuskegee Airman/Redtails, so that makes a lot more sense than them taking the time to cover the oil refinery raids.  All of the officers were lumped together in the POW camps by the Germans, regardless of race.

MV5BY2JhNTI5ODUtNTExMS00Nzg3LWJiOTAtMDkw

What should be really concerning is that Stalag Luft III is the basis for The Great Escape, but unlike the movie, that was mostly British/Commonwealth officers who staged the escape (the American air crews were kept in separate parts of the prison from the Brits).

This movie:

greatescapedvdextra-3_4.jpg

 

 

I don't think they will cover that though.

Edit: One of the Redtails who was held in Stalag Luft III mentioned they had radios that were smuggled in, and they listened to Western stuff:

https://www.af.mil/News/Features/Display/Article/143610/tuskegee-airman-recalls-time-as-pow/

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Trey3216

Trey3216 15,314

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On 11/9/2023 at 12:32 PM, Helobious said:

Loved BoB and the pacific but probably won’t watch this. WW2 content is like the MCU now. Way too much of it and I’m just fatigued. Hard to believe there’s any more unique stories to tell.

Loved Pride of the Yankees, but probably won't watch Captain.   Yankees content is like the MCU now.  Way too much of it, and I'm beyond fatigued.  Hard to believe people still tune into the bullshit Red Sox/Yankees games anymore since they don't mean shit.   

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45,383

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46 minutes ago, PRONG HORN said:

I think it will be good, but it will probably just be 2024 good.  

 

 

I am reserving judgement. Of course BoB will always be unbeatable. I’m rewatching Pacific this week. I have high expectations for this, but not unreasonable expectations. 

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Hermanator

Hermanator 6,838

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This should be worth watching at least.

Just realized America needs to actually win a war again so they can start making series and movies about that. Everything we've done since Korea we just end up embarrassed with egg on our face and tons of wasted resources. This is starting to feel like aggy still celebrating their 1939 NC. 

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 17,429

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This should be worth watching at least.
Just realized America needs to actually win a war again so they can start making series and movies about that. Everything we've done since Korea we just end up embarrassed with egg on our face and tons of wasted resources. This is starting to feel like aggy still celebrating their 1939 NC. 

Maybe we should just avoid getting involved in other folks civil wars and/or pick wars we can win?

Just a passing thought.
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Macanudo

Macanudo 12,909

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7 hours ago, Hermanator said:

This should be worth watching at least.

Just realized America needs to actually win a war again so they can start making series and movies about that. Everything we've done since Korea we just end up embarrassed with egg on our face and tons of wasted resources. This is starting to feel like aggy still celebrating their 1939 NC. 

Are you bad mouthing Heartbreak Ridge, son?

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