YESSS, FINALLY!!! - Masters of the Air - The 8th Air Force, Spielberg, Hanks, Goetzman (Crew behind Band of Brothers, Pacific)

[Biff Tannen 45778]

What the shit

Spoiler

Are Buck and Croz really gonna be gone?  Can't imagine they would just vanish them like that.

 

[Js1 85821]

10 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

What the shit

  Hide contents

Are Buck and Croz really gonna be gone?  Can't imagine they would just vanish them like that.

 

I mean, he’s a real person, so you can google what happened if you want to be “spoiled”

[Biff Tannen 45778]

6 minutes ago, Js1 said:

I mean, he’s a real person, so you can google what happened if you want to be “spoiled”

[BearSchlong 8140]

The end of ep 4 got me. Not ashamed to admit it. Damned dust.

[BillyGoatHill 4337]

Not trying to take away from the show, but his service seems noting for the thread and site...

Left UT after one semester to follow in his brother's footsteps of being a B17 pilot (brother lost ferrying his B17 to England somewhere in the North Atlantic around Iceland/never found)

30 missions in the 8th AF as a B17 co-pilot from November 44-April 45 with a crash landing in Belgium due to loss of fuel

Returned to UT after the war, playing football as a full back and defensive back. Degree and T Ring in 1949.

Did some cool things as a player and Coach in the NFL after. 

Longhorn Legend  🤘 Tom Landry

 

 

Edited February 9 by BillyGoatHill

[kingkoopa6 8481]

2 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

What the shit

  Hide contents

Are Buck and Croz really gonna be gone?  Can't imagine they would just vanish them like that.

 

Spoiler

If we ain’t see a body, we gotta assume they still alive.  

 

[Deej 77234]

28 minutes ago, BillyGoatHill said:

Not trying to take away from the show, but his service seems noting for the thread and site...

Left UT after one semester to follow in his brother's footsteps of being a B17 pilot (brother lost ferrying his B17 to England somewhere in the North Atlantic around Iceland/never found)

30 missions in the 8th AF as a B17 co-pilot from November 44-April 45 with a crash landing in Belgium due to loss of fuel

Returned to UT after the war, playing football as a full back and defensive back. Degree and T Ring in 1949.

Did some cool things as a player and Coach in the NFL after. 

Longhorn Legend  🤘 Tom Landry

 

 

I was told only aggy served in WWII.

[NeverMarryAStripper 22034]

He was sipping his tea in a B-17 while being shot at, until he spilled it during the crash landing.

[GreenspointTexas 9880]

Fucking awesome ep

[The Ace of Aces 5330]

The sex hookup was good. That was a major issue. The Red Cross had to set up triage centers in London cause so many soldiers on weekend passes got VD. 
 

Also I second the idea of a show dedicated to the vast and far reaching people snuggling operations of the war. Between those helping downed Allies and the Dutch helping thousand upon thousands of Jews - it’s a story ripe for great TV. 

[bolverk 29835]

13 hours ago, kingkoopa6 said:

at first I was like babe Ruth dodgers? What? 
 

wish they let us figure out who was lying  

 

They did. Watch it again and look at how he wrote the date and his handwriting. Both were giveaways that he wasn't American. I believe he also used a wrong word when singing the Star Spangled Banner.

[atomheartbevo 90111]

1 hour ago, The Ace of Aces said:

Also I second the idea of a show dedicated to the vast and far reaching people snuggling operations of the war. Between those helping downed Allies and the Dutch helping thousand upon thousands of Jews - it’s a story ripe for great TV. 

The first time the stuff about the Resistance smuggling downed fliers hit my conscious was reading Chuck Yeager’s biography a few decades ago - he was shot down in France and smuggled out to Spain.

33 minutes ago, bolverk said:

They did. Watch it again and look at how he wrote the date and his handwriting. Both were giveaways that he wasn't American. I believe he also used a wrong word when singing the Star Spangled Banner.

 

I didn’t catch that originally.

18 August 1943

”just how proudly we hailed”

[atomheartbevo 90111]

Friend said the newspaper and phone booth scenes were right out of the book, including the phone booth dialogue.  

[DeepEastTexas 644]

9 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

The first time the stuff about the Resistance smuggling downed fliers hit my conscious was reading Chuck Yeager’s biography a few decades ago - he was shot down in France and smuggled out to Spain.

That Yeager autobiography is outstanding. The fact that he helped another guy that barely had a leg left, was amazing. The two of them going thru the mountains to Spain is an incredible story. Finally had to leave the other guy with the Germans to get medical attention, or he would die. If I remember the story correctly.

[BillyGoatHill 4337]

16 hours ago, kingkoopa6 said:

  Hide contents

If we ain’t see a body, we gotta assume they still alive.  

 

Cool that the show emphasized the counting of chutes....Even if only one chute was seen by other aircraft, EVERYONE on that plane was then listed as missing in the telegrams to NOK vs being "killed in action"

10 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

 

 

I didn’t catch that originally.

18 August 1943

”just how proudly we hailed”

 

I get that they wanted to point out something to show how the underground knew, but day, month, year for dates is correct for the US military.

[ChickenSandwich 9856]

14 hours ago, The Ace of Aces said:

The sex hookup was good. That was a major issue. The Red Cross had to set up triage centers in London cause so many soldiers on weekend passes got VD. 
 

Also I second the idea of a show dedicated to the vast and far reaching people snuggling operations of the war. Between those helping downed Allies and the Dutch helping thousand upon thousands of Jews - it’s a story ripe for great TV. 

Kinky

[Whitewater Horn 968]

13 hours ago, bolverk said:

They did. Watch it again and look at how he wrote the date and his handwriting. Both were giveaways that he wasn't American. I believe he also used a wrong word when singing the Star Spangled Banner.

And the lighter was the final verification right before they executed him. Americans used Zippo lighters, not the German or Austrian type “Bob” was carrying. 

Edited February 10 by Whitewater Horn

[bolverk 29835]

3 hours ago, BillyGoatHill said:

I get that they wanted to point out something to show how the underground knew, but day, month, year for dates is correct for the US military.

I was unaware that military did DD/MM/YY. What immediately grabbed my attention before noticing that was the handwriting style. On the Continent, it's distinct from our cursive. I think it was letter J or I that jumped out when he was writing. I'll have to go back.

Edit: Just looked. It was how he wrote the numbers that was an immediate tell.

Edited February 10 by bolverk

[bolverk 29835]

45 minutes ago, Whitewater Horn said:

And the lighter was the final verification right before they executed him. Americans used Zippo lighters, not the German or Austrian type “Bob” was carrying. 

I noticed something about the lighter was different but unaware that was a giveaway.

[BillyGoatHill 4337]

38 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I was unaware that military did DD/MM/YY. What immediately grabbed my attention before noticing that was the handwriting style. On the Continent, it's distinct from our cursive. I think it was letter J or I that jumped out when he was writing. I'll have to go back.

No biggie about not knowing, was just trying to pass that along. I served in the 80's, but wasn't positive about WW2 until I found some paperwork/pictures of a Great Uncle of mine that was Marine in the Pacific. His paperwork dating was the same as were some letters and the telegram (KIA) to my great grandmother.

As for the show, I was trying to make out the handwriting too when first watching that episode but it was kinda small on my computer. I thought the lighter was funny also but it didn't dawn on me until @Whitewater Horn pointed it out.

CSB//??

Concerning the French/Allies underground, I used to work with a guy (and went to medic school with) in our Fire Dept. that we gave crap to regarding his French heritage (surrenders/never fired rifles/ha ha etc). He took all the kidding in good stride. He was a good cook as that it was his dad did with owning his own restaurant. 

His dad passed a few years back. Included with his obituary were some links to articles about his dad not only being part of the French Underground during the war, but he was a high up leader that caused quite the problems for the Germans with assassinations of high ranking Officers/ blowing up of bridges and railways/ really helping out with D Day stuff and after. Dude had been a real badass during the war and had all types of medals from the French Government and the Allies. My buddy Gil had never told us those stories about his Dad.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 10 by BillyGoatHill

[Whitewater Horn 968]

55 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I noticed something about the lighter was different but unaware that was a giveaway.

Between the other tells like the writing and the overly enthusiastic singing of the anthem, they likely had him pegged as an infiltrator. That’s why they specially asked him for a light. The final nail in the coffin. I like that they present the clues, but don’t beat you over the with it. It’s nice to have to pay attention. 

[kingkoopa6 8481]

I get it.  But I guess I was going for.. in your face something not adding up. 
 

like the dude trying to explain babe Ruth is a girl dodging a train or some weird shit 

[Ted Lange 16158]

This show has gotten better each episode.   I was super excited for this and the first 1.5 episodes were pretty meh, now I can’t wait for #5 

[GreenspointTexas 9880]

14 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

This show has gotten better each episode.   I was super excited for this and the first 1.5 episodes were pretty meh, now I can’t wait for #5 

This

[atomheartbevo 90111]

Ken Lemmons the mechanic, played by Jude Law’s son, actually fixed an engine while the aircraft was getting ready to take off (different mission though).

The main Belgium Resistance woman was real and helped hundreds of airmen escape.

There was a huge German raid on London/England when Egan was in London.

and so on…if you’re curious about the historical accuracy

 

Edited February 11 by atomheartbevo

[Texzilla58 4745]

A friend of mine’s dad was a B17 pilot on the Schwienfort raid when we lost 77 bombers. He never spoke of it. I didn’t know about until his funeral in 09.

[F250 28959]

5 hours ago, kingkoopa6 said:

like the dude trying to explain babe Ruth is a girl dodging a train or some weird shit 

 

[The Ace of Aces 5330]

10 hours ago, Texzilla58 said:

A friend of mine’s dad was a B17 pilot on the Schwienfort raid when we lost 77 bombers. He never spoke of it. I didn’t know about until his funeral in 09.

IIRC the mission basically turned out to worthless too as attacking that facility did extremely little to hinder the German capability to manufacture ammunition since they spread out and divided up plants. Such a shame, but a lack of intelligence recon and planners not seeing ground truth probably was the culprit  

WW2 featured way too much of WW1’s horrific mindset of throwing countless bodies away for tiny, incremental at best leverage. 

[Texzilla58 4745]

IIRC the mission basically turned out to worthless too as attacking that facility did extremely little to hinder the German capability to manufacture ammunition since they spread out and divided up plants. Such a shame, but a lack of intelligence recon and planners not seeing ground truth probably was the culprit  
WW2 featured way too much of WW1’s horrific mindset of throwing countless bodies away for tiny, incremental at best leverage. 

I can’t imagine the terror of heavy flak and seeing planes all around you falling out of the sky. Then a couple days later doing it again. I know that we did close formation flying to put massive fire zones of 50 cal out there for fighters but it seems it made simpler larger targets for flak.

And it seems we ignored the concept of knocking out these massive 88 arrays prior to hitting primary targets.

[atomheartbevo 90111]

3 hours ago, Texzilla58 said:

I know that we did close formation flying to put massive fire zones of 50 cal out there for fighters but it seems it made simpler larger targets for flak.

A part of it was bomb concentration - they dropped based off the lead bombardier.

[mchookem 16559]

the fact they had to rely almost exclusively on nothing but their eyeballs 👀 for just about everything - formation with their fellow bombers, attacking fighters, navigation, identifying targets, hell even the landing gear coming down successfully! - that's pretty insane to think about. it's amazing they were ever successful!

[YChang 3473]

Can’t believe they did Elvis like that. 

[GreenspointTexas 9880]

9 hours ago, YChang said:

Can’t believe they did Elvis like that. 

I thought it was awesome. Def made it feel more realistic

 

 

also, the red cross chick was fire

[kingkoopa6 8481]

Wasn’t that the second dude to hit on same Red Cross chick ?

Both never came back. 

[GreenspointTexas 9880]

The look she gave when she was told the news was the best bit of acting ive seen in a minute

[billfromlaketravis 11629]

Tom Hanks : I felt so bad witnessing what Austin Butler went through filming Elvis that I cast him as the lead in Masters of the Air.

Spielberg: I’m going to kill his character offscreen in episode 4. 

 

[TwiceHorn 31699]

So, what's the deal with Egan's white or undyed B-3 jacket?  I kind of wanted a sheepskin jacket for a while and went down a rabbit hole on those things.  Never saw anything about a white one.

Also, I have always found it bizarre that pilots' uniforms, even for combat flying, seemed to include neckties.  That's kind of bothered me since watching Battle of Britain as a kid.

[atomheartbevo 90111]

1 hour ago, GreenspointTexas said:

The look she gave when she was told the news was the best bit of acting ive seen in a minute

Curt Biddick's expression when he realized he was going to die was amazing, just for those few seconds.

And in real life, he apparently steered the bomber away from a village and into an empty area.

[atomheartbevo 90111]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

So, what's the deal with Egan's white or undyed B-3 jacket?  I kind of wanted a sheepskin jacket for a while and went down a rabbit hole on those things.  Never saw anything about a white one.

Also, I have always found it bizarre that pilots' uniforms, even for combat flying, seemed to include neckties.  That's kind of bothered me since watching Battle of Britain as a kid.

It was an older model of the jacket that was discontinued in I think '41, and he kept it because he felt it was distinctive and made him stand out.  It was a true story.

Also them wearing fez's was real - they swapped their hats with a bunch of guys from another country while they were in Morocco, and put their ranks on them and wore them around.  Egan's is in a museum somewhere.

 

[Texzilla58 4745]

So, what's the deal with Egan's white or undyed B-3 jacket?  I kind of wanted a sheepskin jacket for a while and went down a rabbit hole on those things.  Never saw anything about a white one.
Also, I have always found it bizarre that pilots' uniforms, even for combat flying, seemed to include neckties.  That's kind of bothered me since watching Battle of Britain as a kid.

They were officers…and gentlemen.

[TwiceHorn 31699]

4 hours ago, Texzilla58 said:

They were officers…and gentlemen.

I mean, my Dad was an officer and a gentleman and the US Navy had the sense not to make officers wear neckties in combat and hazard situations.

[BillyGoatHill 4337]

8 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

So, what's the deal with Egan's white or undyed B-3 jacket?  I kind of wanted a sheepskin jacket for a while and went down a rabbit hole on those things.  Never saw anything about a white one.

Also, I have always found it bizarre that pilots' uniforms, even for combat flying, seemed to include neckties.  That's kind of bothered me since watching Battle of Britain as a kid.

Part of the uniform....plus they were actually also part of some ground troops attire (Patton scolded his officers more than once about wearing their ties)

US, RAF, and other allies plus the European Axis pilots ALL usually wore a dress or other uniform that required a tie while waiting for sorties. As to wearing while flying, that usually came down to discipline and uniform standards from the units or squadron/bomb group CO.

Plenty of pics of pilots out there from all countries with ties on with their flight gear. Gotta remember that is only 20 years past WW1 where it was a but a gentlemen's game and prestige to be a pilot. Scarves (usually silk) were worn to not only protect the neck, but  keep the neck warm. This tradition carried on to WW2. German prisoner of war camps for allied pilots were initially run or overseen by the Luftwaffe on Goerring's insistance.  He had been a combat pilot in WW1 and though he was drug addict and had a sexual preference that should have had put him in a German concentration camp, he tried to see that Allied pilots were treated with that gentlemanly conduct while under the Luftwaffe officers oversight.

edit: I also remember reading somewhere years ago that ties made for good tourniquets for wounded flight crew.

Edited February 13 by BillyGoatHill

[TwiceHorn 31699]

28 minutes ago, BillyGoatHill said:

Part of the uniform....plus they were actually also part of some ground troops attire (Patton scolded his officers more than once about wearing their ties)

US, RAF, and other allies plus the European Axis pilots ALL usually wore a dress or other uniform that required a tie while waiting for sorties. As to wearing while flying, that usually came down to discipline and uniform standards from the units or squadron/bomb group CO.

Plenty of pics of pilots out there from all countries with ties on with their flight gear. Gotta remember that is only 20 years past WW1 where it was a but a gentlemen's game and prestige to be a pilot. Scarves (usually silk) were worn to not only protect the neck, but  keep the neck warm. This tradition carried on to WW2. German prisoner of war camps for allied pilots were initially run or overseen by the Luftwaffe on Goerring's insistance.  He had been a combat pilot in WW1 and though he was drug addict and had a sexual preference that should have had put him in a German concentration camp, he tried to see that Allied pilots were treated with that gentlemanly conduct while under the Luftwaffe officers oversight.

edit: I also remember reading somewhere years ago that ties made for good tourniquets for wounded flight crew.

Well, right as to the RAF and European forces, particularly in the late 30s and early 40s before we even entered the war.  That whole officer-aristocrat-nobleman thing was going on that never was as entrenched in the US military and even less so by the time we entered the war and mobilized thousands of reserve officers and then started pumping them out by V12.

[BillyGoatHill 4337]

7 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, right as to the RAF and European forces, particularly in the late 30s and early 40s before we even entered the war.  That whole officer-aristocrat-nobleman thing was going on that never was as entrenched in the US military and even less so by the time we entered the war and mobilized thousands of reserve officers and then started pumping them out by V12.

C'mon, man, I get that.  

I know we did away with that whole prince and lord thing 160 yrs prior to WW2, but I didn't think I needed to include that in my post as to the idea and principles of flying as gentlemen/upper crust was also engrained with who got picked for flight school by the US military. College educated or some college/trade school? Candidate,...guy who farmed, worked on tractors? Some,... but most  were naturals for being Ground crew/crew chief if in the air corps.  Rural country boys that grew up bird or pheasant hunting made the best gunners with their skill of already knowing about leading targets/prey. 

 

[HouTex 1902]

So my wife sees the Polish girl and immediately assumed she was a prostitute.  As she left the hotel (?) room she assumed that Egan paid her and they just didn’t show it.

[atomheartbevo 90111]

50 minutes ago, HouTex said:

So my wife sees the Polish girl and immediately assumed she was a prostitute.  As she left the hotel (?) room she assumed that Egan paid her and they just didn’t show it.

Your wife doesn’t like the thought of windows sleeping around 

[HouTex 1902]

47 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Your wife doesn’t like the thought of windows sleeping around 

Probably so.  She just doesn’t grasp the tough times that most of Europe experienced in the late 30’s-early 40’s. 

I love the scenes showing the bravery of the Belgian and French women in smuggling our guys to Spain.  Too bad the French leaders of the 30’s didn’t have their fortitude.  

[RPM 26431]

On 2/13/2024 at 11:01 AM, atomheartbevo said:

Your wife doesn’t like the thought of windows sleeping around 

I feel her pane. She's jalousie.

[BearSchlong 8140]

To that point, Crosby’s book self-justifies his own extramarital adventures. Immediately before deploying he married Jean but while in England he hooked up with a former girlfriend who also found herself in London.

And he was sent to Oxford as the Air Force’s emissary to study the abrupt and powerful societal changes in British society brought about by the presence of so many Americans, especially in light of the vacuum left when English men of fighting age were sent to Africa and other theaters. There, he hooked up with a worldly intellectual lady of noble descent and spent all his available time with her.

After the war, he attempted to confess his affairs but Jean shut him down, effectively saying “what happened in England stays in England.” She bore 4 children and they had a lengthy marriage until her death from Cancer in 1980. He went on to earn a PhD at Stanford and a professorship at Harvard.

American forces were paid roughly 4x more than their British counterparts. “Overpaid, oversexed, and over here” was a valid complaint.

[Chad Fuck 17872]

To that point, Crosby’s book self-justifies his own extramarital adventures. Immediately before deploying he married Jean but while in England he hooked up with a former girlfriend who also found herself in London.

And he was sent to Oxford as the Air Force’s emissary to study the abrupt and powerful societal changes in British society brought about by the presence of so many Americans, especially in light of the vacuum left when English men of fighting age were sent to Africa and other theaters. There, he hooked up with a worldly intellectual lady of noble descent and spent all his available time with her.

After the war, he attempted to confess his affairs but Jean shut him down, effectively saying “what happened in England stays in England.” She bore 4 children and they had a lengthy marriage until her death from Cancer in 1980. He went on to earn a PhD at Stanford and a professorship at Harvard.

American forces were paid roughly 4x more than their British counterparts. “Overpaid, oversexed, and over here” was a valid complaint.

My uncle had a similar deal with my aunt while he was in Vietnam. I asked her about it later, after he’d passed. After getting over the shock of me asking, she said she didn’t begrudge him much when every day held the specter of death. People have needs. I didn’t ask her what it was like being alone stateside with three kids wondering if your husband would make it back. She’s gone now too. Perspective. She had it.