YESSS, FINALLY!!! - Masters of the Air - The 8th Air Force, Spielberg, Hanks, Goetzman (Crew behind Band of Brothers, Pacific)

[BillyGoatHill 4,421]

19 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Already posted but spoilers

  Reveal hidden contents

They show up in episode 8 and a few of the listed Red Tail flyers (credited actors) were shot down during  Operation Dragoon (invasion of Southern France, after D-Day) and ended up in the same Stalag with Bucky/Buck and others and met them/bunked with them.

It would be great if this turned into a back door pilot for a Red Tails series, but the reality is they are covering a few Red Tails that were shot down and crossed paths with the 100th BG guys .

At least we will get some Operation Dragoon coverage, which is rare in film/TV   

 

My bad. 

No disrespect to the board, just forgot that it wasn't common knowledge to all as to who they flew with. 

[atomheartbevo 90,681]

1 hour ago, BillyGoatHill said:

My bad. 

No disrespect to the board, just forgot that it wasn't common knowledge to all as to who they flew with. 

No, at first it seemed kind of dubious why they were being included until the characters were mapped out (in terms of their fates).  Based on those guys and the stuff we see in the trailers and intro, they seem to be going all in on giving us at least an episode or two of serious POW/Stalag/Holocaust stuff.

 

[MissingInAction 25,601]

Purely incredible.

I'd put ep 5 up against the D Day scene in Saving Private Ryan as quite possibly the greatest depiction of combat on film.

[lateshow 1,329]

On 2/17/2024 at 10:34 AM, The Ace of Aces said:

Read up about Robert Rosenthal. Have a US flag nearby to wave as you do so. 

 

Holy shit! Talk about a real American Badass!

[Macanudo 13,342]

On 2/17/2024 at 6:22 PM, ChickenSandwich said:

Only one table needed for the interrogation. That scene was horrible and fantastic. 

And then in the rack room.   Fuck me.

Something I had not given a whole lot of thought to ever and I don't know why...   The condition that most Forts came back in...   How the fuck did those crews keep them flying?  That's some straight up magic.

I was completely wrong about this series.   I was not sure it would be any good.   BoB is still the goat but Mighty 8th is making a strong bid for 2nd place in front of the Pacific.

[Macanudo 13,342]

13 hours ago, MissingInAction said:

Purely incredible.

I'd put ep 5 up against the D Day scene in Saving Private Ryan as quite possibly the greatest depiction of combat on film.

Ok, let's not get too carried away now.  

[mininghorn88 2,338]

How did the aerial gunners not shoot down the other bombers? The way that they were swinging their guns around it is unlikely that they were paying attention to what was beyond their immediate targets.

[HouTex 1,943]

4 hours ago, mininghorn88 said:

How did the aerial gunners not shoot down the other bombers? The way that they were swinging their guns around it is unlikely that they were paying attention to what was beyond their immediate targets.

I thought the same thing.  Seemed like total chaos for the gunners.  

[Celery Man 21,108]

Watching this has triggered a rewatch of the Pacific. Watching episode 3 (Leckie being emo in Melbourne for an hour) and it drags for me as much as it did the first time.

[Js1 87,295]

7 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Watching this has triggered a rewatch of the Pacific. Watching episode 3 (Leckie being emo in Melbourne for an hour) and it drags for me as much as it did the first time.

Oh I hate that episode 

[Doc Sam Beckett 5,908]

On 2/17/2024 at 5:07 PM, NeverMarryAStripper said:

I don’t think they performed escort duty in Europe until mid 1944

 

On 2/17/2024 at 5:44 PM, BillyGoatHill said:

Yep.

First flew in '43 covering the Sicily invasion (from N Africa clearing sea lanes) and then providing bomber escort in mid '44 for the 12th and 15th Air Force (not the 8th which was based out of England).

 

On 2/17/2024 at 8:55 PM, atomheartbevo said:

Already posted but spoilers

  Reveal hidden contents

They show up in episode 8 and a few of the listed Red Tail flyers (credited actors) were shot down during  Operation Dragoon (invasion of Southern France, after D-Day) and ended up in the same Stalag with Bucky/Buck and others and met them/bunked with them.

It would be great if this turned into a back door pilot for a Red Tails series, but the reality is they are covering a few Red Tails that were shot down and crossed paths with the 100th BG guys .

At least we will get some Operation Dragoon coverage, which is rare in film/TV   

 

 

Yeah, my comment was more of a complaint that we only get to see it for two or three episodes. Not trying to wait until season 2 in 2027 to see more. If there even is a plan for a second season 

[Biff Tannen 46,205]

10 hours ago, Macanudo said:

 The condition that most Forts came back in...   How the fuck did those crews keep them flying?  That's some straight up magic.

I've been thinking this and just the general concept of flying this slow moving tank through constant bombardment from both the ground and the air.  Of course their casualty rate was going to be like 80%+.  How could it not be?  Just crazy.

[RPM 26,680]

10 hours ago, mininghorn88 said:

How did the aerial gunners not shoot down the other bombers? The way that they were swinging their guns around it is unlikely that they were paying attention to what was beyond their immediate targets.

In Ep 2 it looked like a gunner took out the B-17 beside them with friendly fire, but it was chaos so who knows. 

[atomheartbevo 90,681]

13 hours ago, mininghorn88 said:

How did the aerial gunners not shoot down the other bombers? The way that they were swinging their guns around it is unlikely that they were paying attention to what was beyond their immediate targets.

8 hours ago, HouTex said:

I thought the same thing.  Seemed like total chaos for the gunners.  

 

 

[Captainant 28,601]

20 hours ago, Macanudo said:

Something I had not given a whole lot of thought to ever and I don't know why...   The condition that most Forts came back in...   How the fuck did those crews keep them flying?  That's some straight up magic.

A combination of fuckin balls of steel on the pilots to believe in their ability to bring their bird home, and an incredible engineering job to have such durable planes. Practically speaking, if they're at altitude and get beat up and lose an engine and some lifting surface from a wing, they've got enough stored energy to limp home. Even moreso once they drop the dozen or so 500lb bombs they're hauling 

[Macanudo 13,342]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

A combination of fuckin balls of steel on the pilots to believe in their ability to bring their bird home, and an incredible engineering job to have such durable planes. Practically speaking, if they're at altitude and get beat up and lose an engine and some lifting surface from a wing, they've got enough stored energy to limp home. Even moreso once they drop the dozen or so 500lb bombs they're hauling 

Often pilots brought back Forts with only one or two running engines and missing parts of the rudder and tail.   Definitely impressive piloting skills.

[RPM 26,680]

A B-17 can't stay in the air on 1 engine. If one returned like that it failed very close to landing like when Biddick landed in Scotland.

[Texzilla58 4,798]

A combination of fuckin balls of steel on the pilots to believe in their ability to bring their bird home, and an incredible engineering job to have such durable planes. Practically speaking, if they're at altitude and get beat up and lose an engine and some lifting surface from a wing, they've got enough stored energy to limp home. Even moreso once they drop the dozen or so 500lb bombs they're hauling 

Yep. Amazing tech innovation just 30 years after Kitty Hawk and without any vision of a war like they fought over Germany in terms of fighter capabilities and heavy flak arrays. Huge balls. Just to do it once. But to do it over and over. And arch the carnage around you. Sheesh. Thank you all, everyone of them.

[Macanudo 13,342]

3 hours ago, RPM said:

A B-17 can't stay in the air on 1 engine. If one returned like that it failed very close to landing like when Biddick landed in Scotland.

It can't stay up for long but it can do it...

 

https://www.amazon.com/B-17-Brennans-Circus-Plane-Wouldnt/dp/1520891245

[kevwun 16,449]

But it's a glider at that point.  It can't maintain level flight or climb.

Edited February 20 by kevwun

[MissingInAction 25,601]

Went to an air show at the Georgetown airport which had several planes of the confederate airforce including a b-17.

They let me climb all through it. At the age of 12 it felt incredibly cramped. No one over 5'4 could be in the thing I don't think.

[BillyGoatHill 4,421]

On 2/19/2024 at 11:06 AM, Macanudo said:

 

Something I had not given a whole lot of thought to ever and I don't know why...   The condition that most Forts came back in...   How the fuck did those crews keep them flying?  That's some straight up magic.

 

 

5 hours ago, Captainant said:

A combination of fuckin balls of steel on the pilots to believe in their ability to bring their bird home, and an incredible engineering job to have such durable planes. Practically speaking, if they're at altitude and get beat up and lose an engine and some lifting surface from a wing, they've got enough stored energy to limp home. Even moreso once they drop the dozen or so 500lb bombs they're hauling 

Yep. Boeing knew how to build a plane and just amazing crews flying them. 🇺🇸

 

[atomheartbevo 90,681]

On 2/17/2024 at 3:15 PM, Chad Fuck said:

There is no freakin' way on God's green earth - or blue sky as it were - that they could crank a B-17 around like a fighter as was depicted.   I had to restrain my guffaws.  

If you watch it again, it’s not quite like a fighter. I’ve spent way too much time on the 100th Facebook group, and a few other sites (including the 100th’s main site), but apparently Rosenthal’s son and another crew member or two confirmed that Rosenthal flew the shit out of the plane on that return.

I think it was his son who said the maneuvers were more violent than shown in the show - because they were solo at that point, Rosenthal was doing everything he could to keep as many guns on the Germans as possible and so he couldn’t fly it in a straight line until they ran the Germans off (or they ran low on fuel).  The turns/spiral he did managed to keep an additional gunner or two covering the approaches of the fighters - the gunners were screaming out positions and Rosie was trying to turn the plane to keep them from a straight-on tail and frontal attack.

Rosie was a badass through and through.  

On a side note, there is a 102 year-old airmen still alive who is the last remaining person who was in the tower when Rosie and his crew landed.

https://www.facebook.com/100thBGFoundation/posts/pfbid02GAtQDAaquvApMUri5WQonpempjdtmo9UKwbXBYtc68UHJ4Qct9GvyrMsejyJmyCWl

 

[atomheartbevo 90,681]

I’ve been somewhat bedridden recently and digging into a lot of the names and actions, and continue to become more and more impressed with the accuracy and the depth as the show moves along.  Having looked up most of the cast and who they play, I’ve been able to match up the actions in the trailers/introduction to the actual events in real life. I feel like they’ve done an overall better job than BoB on accuracy and how many people are shown, but then again they literally had huge, detailed debriefings after every mission and multiple books were written by the participants before that was a thing (a lot of BoB books came out after the series). Still love BoB, but Maters is near and dear to my heart because of relatives.

A few notes,   Lt Barnhill, whose B-17 crashed in I think the second episode while training - his is the B-17 you see crash over Kenny’s shoulder and the two British kids are shocked.  He was out of Kingsville, Texas, and only there in England for just 6 weeks, and his wife/mom were told that he was killed on a mission over Germany (his dad was a Texas Ranger who was killed in the line of duty years earlier). The actual crash report matched the show:

Quote

"On 16 July 1943,B 17,serial number 42- 30305, took off from Station #139 on a local formation practice mission. Weather was clear and visibility unlimited. Take off was at 1006 local time. After take off, the aircraft entered a right bank almost lmmediately The bank continued, and the aircraft lost altitude until ground impact. Duration of the flight did not exceed 30 seconds. Three crew members in the rear of the aircraft survived with injuries. The other seven crew members received fatal injuries, and the aircraft was destroyed."

Biddick may have steered the airplane away from a village, depending on which report you read, but there was also a massive oxygen fire on the flight deck, so accounts vary, but it all happened fast.

Dickie’s actual death was apparently too Hollywoodish - he was witnessed by another crew climbing out onto the wing, reaching in or putting on his parachute while standing on the burning wing

Quote

ABOUT FORTY MILES NORTHWEST OF REGENSBURG THE AIRCRAFT WAS HIT IN RIGHT SIDE OF THE NOSE AND FUSELAGE BY 20-MM ROUNDS, WOUNDING GODBEY AND STARTING AN INTENSE OXYGEN SYSTEM FIRE IN THE FLIGHT DECK AREA. THE CO-PILOT RICHARD SNYDER WAS SEEN STANDING ON THE WING, APPARENTLY HAVING EGRESSED THE AIRCRAFT THROUGH A HOLE IN THE FUSELAGE. IT IS THOUGHT THAT HE HIT THE STABLIZER WHEN HE LEFT THE WING, AT ANY RATE HIS BODY WAS LOCATED SOME THREE MONTHS LATER HANGING IN HIS CHUTE HARNESS FROM A TREE BRANCH. THIS IS THE INCEDENT MENTIONED BY BEIRNE LAY IN HIS ARTICLE ON THE REGENSBURG MISSION. OWEN "COWBOY" ROANE ALSO REPORTED SEEING SNYDER'S GALLANT BID TO ESCAPE THE DOOMED "ESCAPE KIT."(42-5860) LT ROANE REPORTED SEEING SNYDER CLIMB OUT ON THE WING AND REACH BACK INSIDE FOR HIS CHUTE PACK, PROABLY THE HOLE IN THE FUSELAGE WAS TOO SMALL TO GET THROUGH WEARING A CHUTE PACK. SNYDER BUCKLED ON HIS CHUTE WHILE STANDING IN THE FIRE RAGING ON THE WING.

Finally, this one is going to be the Albert Blithe of the BOB series, where they fucked up his death (Blithe lived to fight in Korea and was a very respected soldier)

Spoiler

Bubble didn’t die until 6 months later.  I have no idea why they would mangle an event so major, knowing his actual fate, but see Blithe.

 

[Macanudo 13,342]

For those who say the B-17 couldn't handle like that....

 

 

 

Same plane mentioned in both but different narrators with different styles.

[NeverMarryAStripper 22,321]

I read this book about that B-17 not too long ago.  It’s pretty good.

 

[Chad Fuck 18,166]

1 hour ago, Macanudo said:

For those who say the B-17 couldn't handle like that....

 

 

 

Same plane mentioned in both but different narrators with different styles.

Old 666 is a great tale and they have their own panel at the NMUSAF, and rightly so.  That said, there's not a whole lot about the actual maneuvering here but to say that the pilot banked the plane hard/steeply to give his rear gunners a shot at the attackers.  What does that mean?  30 degree bank angle?  45? 60?  Who knows.  

9 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

If you watch it again, it’s not quite like a fighter. I’ve spent way too much time on the 100th Facebook group, and a few other sites (including the 100th’s main site), but apparently Rosenthal’s son and another crew member or two confirmed that Rosenthal flew the shit out of the plane on that return.

I think it was his son who said the maneuvers were more violent than shown in the show - because they were solo at that point, Rosenthal was doing everything he could to keep as many guns on the Germans as possible and so he couldn’t fly it in a straight line until they ran the Germans off (or they ran low on fuel).  The turns/spiral he did managed to keep an additional gunner or two covering the approaches of the fighters - the gunners were screaming out positions and Rosie was trying to turn the plane to keep them from a straight-on tail and frontal attack.

Rosie was a badass through and through.  

On a side note, there is a 102 year-old airmen still alive who is the last remaining person who was in the tower when Rosie and his crew landed.

https://www.facebook.com/100thBGFoundation/posts/pfbid02GAtQDAaquvApMUri5WQonpempjdtmo9UKwbXBYtc68UHJ4Qct9GvyrMsejyJmyCWl

 

I will watch it again, as I started again at Ep 1 last night.  I have no doubt Rosenthal flew the shit out of the airplane.  Zero.  None.  But a "violent maneuver" in a B-17 may look drastically different than a "violent maneuver" in a P-51 or Me 109.  

Further, I am not expressing doubt that the veterans are telling the truth about what they perceived.  I have interviewed literally hundreds of vets for my work.  They are people like any other people, and they may be unaware of certain facts, they may embellish, come to change their minds or believe embellishments.  I'm not saying that they're lying or that we shouldn't believe them.  I'm saying that reality may be slightly different from what they perceive.  For example, I had a Sunday school teacher shot down in a B-24 over Wewak.  Every Japanese plane as a "Zero" to him, and he insisted his plane was shot down by a Zero.  Turns out, reserach showed that there were no Navy aircraft (the Zero is a Navy aircraft) at Wewak at the time he was shot down.  He was most likely shot down by a Ki 43 Oscar (an Army aircraft).   Maybe the research was wrong, maybe he misidentified in the heat of the moment.  

Bottom line, I am not doubting that an extraordinary bit of flying occurred as described in the episode.  However, I remain skeptical that the "violent maneuvers" which Rosie undertook look in real life like it did with the CGI on the television.  

 

Edited February 21 by Chad Fuck

[Chad Fuck 18,166]

These just keep popping up for me. 

[Chad Fuck 18,166]

This may've been posted already, but the view from the other side of the hill.  The last sequence is pretty dramatic. 

[wild_turkey 3,300]

I’m loving this series so far. I was a little skeptical in episodes 1-2 that it would be too centered around Buck and Bucky, but that has not been case. Episode 5 was intense.

[atomheartbevo 90,681]

[Knoxtnhorn 6,312]

Just caught up.  A little dusty in here.  Not to go CR or anything, but the folks we consider "heroes" today v. these guys.  Eeesh.

[Knoxtnhorn 6,312]

Slightly related; slightly off-topic question.  Does UT have any Tom Landry related honors like a statue or anything on campus?  As an alum and lifelong (don't judge me) Cowboy fan, I actually didn't even know Landry attended UT until I read his autobiography.  Sports aside, he accomplished quite a lot in WWII as a B-17 pilot.

 

[GreenspointTexas 9,994]

This series is fucking great

[TankedBevo 2,504]

1 hour ago, Knoxtnhorn said:

Slightly related; slightly off-topic question.  Does UT have any Tom Landry related honors like a statue or anything on campus?  As an alum and lifelong (don't judge me) Cowboy fan, I actually didn't even know Landry attended UT until I read his autobiography.  Sports aside, he accomplished quite a lot in WWII as a B-17 pilot.

 

CDC mentioned there's a display just for him in the hall of honor 

 

[Biff Tannen 46,205]

On 2/20/2024 at 3:08 AM, atomheartbevo said:

 

 

This is awesome, but 30 seconds in I was like "what is that voice?"  Oh, it's Professor Frink.

 

[HouTex 1,943]

12 hours ago, Knoxtnhorn said:

Slightly related; slightly off-topic question.  Does UT have any Tom Landry related honors like a statue or anything on campus?  As an alum and lifelong (don't judge me) Cowboy fan, I actually didn't even know Landry attended UT until I read his autobiography.  Sports aside, he accomplished quite a lot in WWII as a B-17 pilot.

 

I was UT in the early 80’s and I was a huge Cowboy fan then.  It was well known among the frat brothers that Landry was a Texas Ex.  He was a DKE and a Texas Cowboy.  And, yes, he was branded.  

[Js1 87,295]

11 hours ago, TankedBevo said:

CDC mentioned there's a display just for him in the hall of honor 

 

Atheltics 

[Macanudo 13,342]

2 hours ago, Js1 said:

Atheltics 

Thanks for clarifying.   Some might have thought it was in the Hall of Honor for Home Ec.

[MissingInAction 25,601]

B-17 boner ready for take off.

[Firemans4Horn 18,535]

New episode just dropped about 10 minutes ago. 
 

[Knoxtnhorn 6,312]

3 minutes ago, Firemans4Horn said:

New episode just dropped about 10 minutes ago. 
 

Damn.  I'm still trying to get over the last one that I watched yesterday.

Quick, albeit, stupid question.  I understand that these bombers didn't have fighter escorts due to the length of the flight.  (In the last episode, they turned around at the French side of the English Channel.)  If that was the case, then am I correct in assuming that ze Germans just flew fighter planes from bases in western France to London?  I.E. a much shorter round trip route than New Anglia to locations in Germany.

[MissingInAction 25,601]

Holy shit I'm out and about trying to bang latinas

[atomheartbevo 90,681]

58 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

Holy shit I'm out and about trying to bang latinas

Spoiler

So is Crosby.   Well, Brits, not Latinas.  

 

[atomheartbevo 90,681]

 

 

Edited February 23 by atomheartbevo

[RPM 26,680]

5 hours ago, Knoxtnhorn said:

Damn.  I'm still trying to get over the last one that I watched yesterday.

Quick, albeit, stupid question.  I understand that these bombers didn't have fighter escorts due to the length of the flight.  (In the last episode, they turned around at the French side of the English Channel.)  If that was the case, then am I correct in assuming that ze Germans just flew fighter planes from bases in western France to London?  I.E. a much shorter round trip route than New Anglia to locations in Germany.

You are correct. The Luftwaffe had a very limited range for fighters. That is why England won the Battle of Brittan. German fighters had a very few minutes of loiter time over the target. The story was the same for Allied planes until the P-51 came along with 1,000 miles of range. Once D-Day enabled us to get some fields in France it was all over for ze Nazis.

[RPM 26,680]

 

[Macanudo 13,342]

Spoiler

Does anyone know if Egan's path to the Stalag was as portrayed?   Was he marched through a town like that with the others and attacked?   

Question for those caught up.

[kingkoopa6 8,749]

Another banger. 
 

that chick killed it too. I love her 

[kingkoopa6 8,749]

13 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Does anyone know if Egan's path to the Stalag was as portrayed?   Was he marched through a town like that with the others and attacked?   

Question for those caught up.

GOT shame shame walk. But more brutal and with guns