Herman's Worst Performance?

[Mossyhorn 143]

What is our best win so far this year- Okie St, or WV? Both have been exposed as fairly bad teams this year. We face a couple of teams better than them the rest of the season (ISU, Baylor). 

Back to Herman, In his presser, Tom said , “we didn’t play well, we have to figure out why.”

We’ve mentioned the obvious- poor pass protection; poor tackling; dropped passes.

Thats a start. But, Herman appeared humbled. He knows he got beat by a superior team, both coaching & on-field performance. This is his biggest test, and I think he knows it. It’s still early enough in his coaching career, he’s still learning and perhaps he can salvage this season by getting this team to Big 12 championship game. 

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

59 minutes ago, HeyMcFly said:

It’ll be the MB era all over again, get a big 12 title once every decade, do decent in bowls and hope to get a once in a generation player to take us to the ship. 

Name one team in the last 20 years that has won a championship without a generational player or who doesn't cheat their ass off, or the coach isn't a complete peice of shit.  Herman seems like a good dude (cocaine and strippers aside);and it looks like we aren't playing the recruiting game, so we'll just keep hoping for the next Vince Young.

[Slacks 6791]

Name one team in the last 20 years that has won a championship without a generational player or who doesn't cheat their ass off, or the coach isn't a complete peice of shit.  Herman seems like a good dude (cocaine and strippers aside);and it looks like we aren't playing the recruiting game, so we'll just keep hoping for the next Vince Young.

fuck that.

We need coaches and talent.

I'm concerned about both. We look slow and i don't know if it's players or coaching. Usually, if everyone looks slow, it's coaching.

We've been looking middle of the road Big 10 slow in the last two games.

[MirrOlure 14626]

This thread is about Herman’s performance...not which loss or losses are worse.

Yesterday was an epic failure because it came mid season in Year 3, and despite defensive lapses and shortcomings, the reasons we lost were poor preparation and/or execution of an offensive game plan, poor effort on offense, failure to adjust during the game, and special teams play not being fit for the Special Olympics. Almost all of that is on Herman.

Given that context, and considering who we are playing, and HOW and WHY we lost, it’s his biggest coaching failure to date.

[Rockethorn1978 6061]

Anyone catch Ehlinger post game comments about the difference between ou defense last season vs this season and he said something like "Yea this year they let them be athletes and swarm the ball and not have a bunch of confusing packages and them just get after it". I felt he was saying stuff and almost pointing out Orlando flaw of to much complexity.

We have 4 and 5 star guys from the d-line to the secondary so either they are overrated and suck or our Scheme blows ass and i'm leaning 60-40 scheme and young guys. We have athletes so let them line up and swarm the ball and make blitzes simple and effective.

Offensively I felt like Herman caved to being "the toughest team on the block" and ou dictated what we ran and where and that's my biggest complaint. Herman turned soft instead of dictating what happened and punishing ou for blitzing almost every down. Facts are he wasn't prepared at all.

[GreenspointTexas 9567]

We are dangerously thin on DL and LB

im pretty sure orlando is running 3 man front/cowboy out of necessity and not because he wants to

[Rockethorn1978 6061]

3 hours ago, Snacks said:

fuck that.

We need coaches and talent.

I'm concerned about both. We look slow and i don't know if it's players or coaching. Usually, if everyone looks slow, it's coaching.

We've been looking middle of the road Big 10 slow in the last two games.

Lamb looked electric and fast AF compared to our slow lumbering WR's. Duv is fast but not THAT fast. I thought Herman recruited speed and i'm still waiting for us to get that can't be caught by anyone we play guy.

[Rockethorn1978 6061]

1 minute ago, GreenspointTexas said:

We are dangerously thin on DL and LB

im pretty sure orlando is running 3 man front/cowboy out of necessity and not because he wants to

Orlando has run a 3-3-5 forever. I don't think we have ever run a true 4-3 look.

[Thiefery 4969]

5 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Orlando has run a 3-3-5 forever. I don't think we have ever run a true 4-3 look.

I might be mistaken but I thought I saw a 4-3 version vs osu and wvu (at times of course).. LB's were shark, adeyo, mitchell with DL of Graham, Coburn, Roach and Ossai with his hand to the ground

[dcar00 14035]

21 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Anyone catch Ehlinger post game comments about the difference between ou defense last season vs this season and he said something like "Yea this year they let them be athletes and swarm the ball and not have a bunch of confusing packages and them just get after it". I felt he was saying stuff and almost pointing out Orlando flaw of to much complexity.

We have 4 and 5 star guys from the d-line to the secondary so either they are overrated and suck or our Scheme blows ass and i'm leaning 60-40 scheme and young guys. We have athletes so let them line up and swarm the ball and make blitzes simple and effective.

Offensively I felt like Herman caved to being "the toughest team on the block" and ou dictated what we ran and where and that's my biggest complaint. Herman turned soft instead of dictating what happened and punishing ou for blitzing almost every down. Facts are he wasn't prepared at all.

they weren't really blitzing every down but they were stunting from....wait for it....a 4 MAN LINE and our OL was a disaster.  we made them pay a couple of times with Roschon.  they would bring a backer down on a delayed blitz a lot.  we dropped some gimme slants.  our WR's overall had a shitty day as well.  

[GTX Horn 1707]

Orlando has run a 3-3-5 forever. I don't think we have ever run a true 4-3 look.

Pretty sure Orlando was asked about possibly running a 4-man front during a coordinator media availability last season and he said he would stick with a 3 man front and players just needed to stick to stick to their assignments

[Eskimohorn 5615]

The other thing is every game left on our schedule, except maybe Baylor, is a classic Herman-trap.
It's conceivable we don't win out.

It’s likely we don’t win out. Not to overreact but there are coaching issues in addition to major attrition due to injury.

[Revolution512 1480]

45 minutes ago, GreenspointTexas said:

We are dangerously thin on DL and LB

im pretty sure orlando is running 3 man front/cowboy out of necessity and not because he wants to

I’m pretty sure he’s mediocre

[Hook1997 5289]

We need a real OC ASAP Herman’s conservative, slow to learn something’s not working offense will never win anything big here.

[hookem48 4631]

we were double digit underdogs, defense a mash unit, offense played like shit, special teams were horrible and we lost by 7 to a top 5 team. pretty amazing

[bigcigar 1161]

16 minutes ago, hookem48 said:

we were double digit underdogs, defense a mash unit, offense played like shit, special teams were horrible and we lost by 7 to a top 5 team. pretty amazing

Yep. A lot of fortunate plays masked an overall dominant performance from OU.

[LTtxfan 48979]

5 hours ago, bigcigar said:

Yep. A lot of fortunate plays masked an overall dominant performance from OU.

Yeah, close score was not indicative of the butt kickin' that Horns received from blOU yesterday... 

Herman better kick his football staff's butt this week...  HELL, maybe fire somebody for that SHITTY blOU gameplan!!

 

[Disco Missile 456]

19 hours ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Anyone catch Ehlinger post game comments about the difference between ou defense last season vs this season and he said something like "Yea this year they let them be athletes and swarm the ball and not have a bunch of confusing packages and them just get after it". I felt he was saying stuff and almost pointing out Orlando flaw of to much complexity.

We have 4 and 5 star guys from the d-line to the secondary so either they are overrated and suck or our Scheme blows ass and i'm leaning 60-40 scheme and young guys. We have athletes so let them line up and swarm the ball and make blitzes simple and effective.

Offensively I felt like Herman caved to being "the toughest team on the block" and ou dictated what we ran and where and that's my biggest complaint. Herman turned soft instead of dictating what happened and punishing ou for blitzing almost every down. Facts are he wasn't prepared at all.

This was the first game in the Herman era I felt like the other team was tougher and meaner, especially on the lines. 

We didn't even let LSU push us around like that, and they have better athletes up front than OU does.

[Rockethorn1978 6061]

Yea it’s almost like they came into the game just expecting a soft ou team and just expected they were the toughest and most physical team. Of all the games I never expect Texas to look uninspired it’s this game. Drove me fucking nuts all game.

[TwiceHorn 31283]

16 minutes ago, Disco Missile said:

This was the first game in the Herman era I felt like the other team was tougher and meaner, especially on the lines. 

We didn't even let LSU push us around like that, and they have better athletes up front than OU does.

Very good point.  We may not have the depth of talent of several of the teams we have played in the Herman era, but this is the first time it looked and felt like we were pretty seriously pushed around.

[gmr548 16514]

we were double digit underdogs, defense a mash unit, offense played like shit, special teams were horrible and we lost by 7 to a top 5 team. pretty amazing

Go back to texags. Texas got thoroughly worked on Saturday.

I don't know if this was Herman's absolute low point as the Texas HC. 2017 Tech, 2018 Maryland, and the B12 ccg were all pretty bad.

It may be recency bias, but I lean towards yes because I have never seen one of his teams come out so absolutely lifeless. I've seen them do stupid things. I've seen stubborn refusal to adjust a bad game plan. But the physical whipping on the lines, the terrible pursuit/tackling from the back seven, and the dropped passes tell me the effort level was low and the preperation was not there. I genuinely believed the game was over after the first series and I've never felt like that with a Herman team before. Just awful.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2630]

12 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

Go back to texags. Texas got thoroughly worked on Saturday.

I don't know if this was Herman's absolute low point as the Texas HC. 2017 Tech, 2018 Maryland, and the B12 ccg were all pretty bad.

It may be recency bias, but I lean towards yes because I have never seen one of his teams come out so absolutely lifeless. I've seen them do stupid things. I've seen stubborn refusal to adjust a bad game plan. But the physical whipping on the lines, the terrible pursuit/tackling from the back seven, and the dropped passes tell me the effort level was low and the preperation was not there. I genuinely believed the game was over after the first series and I've never felt like that with a Herman team before. Just awful.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 

How is it tex ags?  

[Wally Pryor 5244]

16 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

 I genuinely believed the game was over after the first series.
 

Riley won the toss and took the ball for a reason.  He knew what he could do against that defense. 

[BurdineBandit 811]

25 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

It may be recency bias, but I lean towards yes because I have never seen one of his teams come out so absolutely lifeless. I've seen them do stupid things. I've seen stubborn refusal to adjust a bad game plan. But the physical whipping on the lines, the terrible pursuit/tackling from the back seven, and the dropped passes tell me the effort level was low and the preperation was not there. I genuinely believed the game was over after the first series and I've never felt like that with a Herman team before. Just awful.

 

Pretty sure the talk earlier in the week was how relaxed Tom was too. Relaxed and confident in the team. Sounds like they had the wrong kind of confidence. The kind that makes uncharacteristic quips to the media, when's the last time we had somebody do that? Shit now that I put it all together, it makes perfect sense that we got punched in the mouth on Saturday with some reality. He's been saying it for a year now, we're good but still need to make the leap to great.... but somehow he joined the team in thinking that we are more than what we are.

The defense looked tentative and confused all game, from the first drive the OU defense looked free and fast. Sam was right on the nose. They had a plan, they went with the plan balls out and let the chips fall. Our defense can't go balls out because they don't know what the fuck is going on half the time.

Orlando ain't moving to no damn 4-man line. That's not his scheme. For better or worse.

[jinx 2635]

1 hour ago, gmr548 said:

 I genuinely believed the game was over after the first series and I've never felt like that with a Herman team before. 
 

For me it was the second series, when I realized that our offensive game plan was lukewarm dog shit.

Funny thing was that Riley took Herman's ball control offense with a running QB and shoved it down his throat.  Then he went all chips in that he could take away Sam and make Texas fold.  He was right on both counts.  I have no idea what Tom's "plan" was.

[ImissWallyPryor 9045]

On 10/13/2019 at 8:33 AM, Mossyhorn said:

What is our best win so far this year- Okie St, or WV? Both have been exposed as fairly bad teams this year. We face a couple of teams better than them the rest of the season (ISU, Baylor). 

Back to Herman, In his presser, Tom said , “we didn’t play well, we have to figure out why.”

We’ve mentioned the obvious- poor pass protection; poor tackling; dropped passes.

Thats a start. But, Herman appeared humbled. He knows he got beat by a superior team, both coaching & on-field performance. This is his biggest test, and I think he knows it. It’s still early enough in his coaching career, he’s still learning and perhaps he can salvage this season by getting this team to Big 12 championship game. 

It’s tough going up against a seasoned ball coach like Lincoln. 

Edited October 14, 2019 by ImissWallyPryor

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

1 hour ago, gmr548 said:

Go back to texags. Texas got thoroughly worked on Saturday.

I don't know if this was Herman's absolute low point as the Texas HC. 2017 Tech, 2018 Maryland, and the B12 ccg were all pretty bad.

It may be recency bias, but I lean towards yes because I have never seen one of his teams come out so absolutely lifeless. I've seen them do stupid things. I've seen stubborn refusal to adjust a bad game plan. But the physical whipping on the lines, the terrible pursuit/tackling from the back seven, and the dropped passes tell me the effort level was low and the preperation was not there. I genuinely believed the game was over after the first series and I've never felt like that with a Herman team before. Just awful.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 

was texting with a buddy. we were tied up and i told him it felt like we were down by 3 scores.

[CurlyDumps 4439]

1 hour ago, gmr548 said:

Go back to texags. Texas got thoroughly worked on Saturday.

I don't know if this was Herman's absolute low point as the Texas HC. 2017 Tech, 2018 Maryland, and the B12 ccg were all pretty bad.

It may be recency bias, but I lean towards yes because I have never seen one of his teams come out so absolutely lifeless. I've seen them do stupid things. I've seen stubborn refusal to adjust a bad game plan. But the physical whipping on the lines, the terrible pursuit/tackling from the back seven, and the dropped passes tell me the effort level was low and the preperation was not there. I genuinely believed the game was over after the first series and I've never felt like that with a Herman team before. Just awful.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 

This. The Pollyanna “we only lost by one score!”  sunshine-pumping Hornfans narrative is laughable. 

[LTtxfan 48979]

Where are explosive plays??

If WRs can't get off press coverage, it's time to add motion to offense, bunch sets with rub routes.  

Where is the creativity on offense?  How bout running some verticals with Duvernay, Jake, Burt and Eagles on 1st down plays before pass rush is pinning their ears back in 3rd and long.  What about passes to RBs including screens??

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by LTtxfan
typo

[Jiggy-Z 3432]

Herman always seems to have a game or two  like this every season, usually against bad competition.

The feel of this game reminded me of OK St. last year.  Slow start on O, get behind play catch up.  Lots of uninspired play.

Also felt a lot like the end of the Conference championship game last year.

Not to pump any sunshine but even after all of the poor game planning and in game adjustments or lack thereof, it really came down to unforced mistakes.

[n64ra 1078]

On 10/12/2019 at 1:53 PM, satyanash said:

Texas Tech in 2017 was Herman's worst game. Re-watch it if you don't believe me.

This one isn't nearly as bad... yet.

That was ridiculous but so was this game's first half.

[Tex Pete 20179]

7 hours ago, CurlyDumps said:

This. The Pollyanna “we only lost by one score!”  sunshine-pumping Hornfans narrative is laughable. 

I mostly agree. We looked terrible. That felt terrible. Still, we only lost by 7 in a game that would have been a loss by 35 for lots of our past teams. In a way I think it shows how far we’ve come. It also shows how far we have to go.

I think people are so pissed because none of us saw that coming, and because it seems like our coach and team treated it like “just another game” ala Mack Brown. After the way we physically whipped them last October, it’s puzzling. And infuriating. 

[David Dennison 18659]

7 hours ago, CurlyDumps said:

This. The Pollyanna “we only lost by one score!”  sunshine-pumping Hornfans narrative is laughable. 

But that's where a lot of Texas fans are.

Most people I've talked to aren't that upset in the grand scheme of losses in Dallas. 

Yeah, it sucks and it would have been cool to win, but we can still win out and play them again in the conference championship game.

Shake it off and win out.

 

[Scooter Monzingo 820]

7 hours ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

It’s tough going up against a seasoned ball coach like Lincoln. 

Lutz...

[Laga4 1270]

We not only lost the line of scrimmage battle we were out coached.

You do that and you are going to lose most games.

Unlike the LSU game where I felt like we had a chance to win all the way to the end,  after about 5 minutes in to the OU game I really didn't think we were going to win that game. It was a hard game to watch. 

Edited October 14, 2019 by Laga4

[Horn80 6075]

On 10/13/2019 at 1:31 PM, GreenspointTexas said:

We are dangerously thin on DL and LB

im pretty sure orlando is running 3 man front/cowboy out of necessity and not because he wants to

Don’t think 3 man front is anything new.  I think it’s his preference.

[Nueces River Rat 5529]

9 hours ago, jinx said:

For me it was the second series, when I realized that our offensive game plan was lukewarm dog shit.

Funny thing was that Riley took Herman's ball control offense with a running QB and shoved it down his throat.  Then he went all chips in that he could take away Sam and make Texas fold.  He was right on both counts.  I have no idea what Tom's "plan" was.

Paging Greg Davis... Please pick up the courtesy phone...    Question Greg.....     Were you involved in Tom's plan for this cluserfuck of a game last Saturday?

Surly wants to know because that shit on offense at time looked like some the excrement you used to serve up.

[Nueces River Rat 5529]

1 hour ago, Laga4 said:

We not only lost the line of scrimmage battle we were out coached.

You do that and you are going to lose most games.

Unlike the LSU game where I felt like we had a chance to win all the way to the end,  after about 5 minutes in to the OU game I really didn't think we were going to win that game. It was a hard game to watch. 

I felt like that for awhile in WVU game when they took the opening drive to the house too.  In fact I thought we were going to completely fall apart in Morgantown because it just felt like WVU was having everything their way and the crowd was really into it.   But yea I really thought a royal ass kicking was going to be in place by the half of the OU game.  

[Dbeasy 14969]

We are dangerously thin on DL and LB
im pretty sure orlando is running 3 man front/cowboy out of necessity and not because he wants to

This is completely, 100% wrong. He runs a 3 man line with Ossai as the B Backer, preferring to put Ossai all over the field to create confusion for offenses. Unfortunately it’s created confusion for our defense and gaping holes for the offense.

[deft 6800]

Did we get positive yardage out of one throw behind the LOS?  How many plays went like that?  Paging gerg davis indeed. 

[TreatyOak 16150]

On 10/13/2019 at 1:17 PM, Eskimohorn said:

It’s likely we don’t win out.

Depends on your definition of winning.  

[runthebone 7932]

44 minutes ago, Nueces River Rat said:

Paging Greg Davis... Please pick up the courtesy phone...    Question Greg.....     Were you involved in Tom's plan for this cluserfuck of a game last Saturday?

Surly wants to know because that shit on offense at time looked like some the excrement you used to serve up.

Also, it will save having to buy a new banner

[Poolflood 845]

12 hours ago, Disco Missile said:

This was the first game in the Herman era I felt like the other team was tougher and meaner, especially on the lines. 

We didn't even let LSU push us around like that, and they have better athletes up front than OU does.

I think this had to do with players realizing early on our game plan/ scheme was not up to blow-u.  Our staff had no answer.   The players kept it close.   Possibly leading to Sam's comment.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

1 hour ago, TreatyOak said:

Depends on your definition of winning.  

Sasha's a solid 6 and I'd be willing to talk about Tech with her... but that mole...would not bang.

Trashy Ludmilla's wearing acid-washed pants and wants to hang on the realignment thread. Would only bang if drunk and able to escape before breakfast. 

[David Dennison 18659]

I can't wait to run the table and read all the shit talking on the eve of the CCG.

That's gonna be fun.

[Stunns38 3357]

Herman looked depressed and dejected on LHN’s rewind today. I hope this is a humbling experience for him. His head got too big how great has has been since Ohio State then Houston and this seems to be his first major bout with adversity. How he responds to this will determine his legacy. He’s going to have to make some uncomfortable decisions or let his G5 esque staff drown him. Luckily, we have a competent AD that should put some pressure on him when necessary.

[NowThis 931]

banner time?

[TexasPride10 573]

On 10/14/2019 at 10:42 AM, LTtxfan said:

Where are explosive plays??

If WRs can't get off press coverage, it's time to add motion to offense, bunch sets with rub routes.  

Where is the creativity on offense?  How bout running some verticals with Duvernay, Jake, Burt and Eagles on 1st down plays before pass rush is pinning their ears back in 3rd and long.  What about passes to RBs including screens??

 

To be fair, I can think of 3 plays just off the top of my head that were incredibly close to being explosive. I know close doesn't count, but I still think it's worth mentioning: 

1. Halfway through the third quarter, down 17-10, we had a 1st & 10 from our own 5. Sam threw an absolute dime to CJ who was breaking free across the middle 15 yards downfield. An incredibly uncharacteristic drop by CJ prevented at least a 20-30 yard gain, maybe even a 95 yard touchdown. Gus and Joel even agreed CJ probably could have scored if he caught it. 
2. The very next play: Sam threw another absolutely perfect ball to Eagles who was streaking down the field at our own 40. Eagles let the ball bounce off his hands, but he likely would have scored if he had held onto it. We ended up punting on that drive after being "that" close to a touchdown on back to back plays.
3. With 9 minutes left in the game, down 27-17, we had 1st & 10 on OU's 37. Sam threw yet another beautiful ball to DD in the endzone which likely would have been caught for a touchdown if not for a pretty bad DPI by OU. This ended up being a really smart penalty by OU, because we ended up only getting a FG on that drive. The most interesting thing about this play was, as the offense was hurrying to the line before the play, the camera zoomed in on Sam and he looked like he was pleading with Herman for that specific play call. Did anyone else catch that? 

As I said before, "almost" having explosive plays is not as good as having explosive plays. However, I think it's worth noting how close we were to 3 explosive, and potentially game changing plays, but just barely missed out on them. And that's just me thinking off the top of my head without re-watching the game. I'm sure there were more that I'm forgetting. 

Edited October 15, 2019 by TexasPride10
typo

[TexasPride10 573]

23 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

Where are explosive plays??

If WRs can't get off press coverage, it's time to add motion to offense, bunch sets with rub routes.  

Where is the creativity on offense?  How bout running some verticals with Duvernay, Jake, Burt and Eagles on 1st down plays before pass rush is pinning their ears back in 3rd and long.  What about passes to RBs including screens??

 

To be fair, I can think of 3 plays just off the top of my head that were incredibly close to being explosive. I know close doesn't count, but I still think it's worth mentioning: 

1. Halfway through the third quarter, down 17-10, we had a 1st & 10 from our own 5. Sam threw an absolute dime to CJ who was breaking free across the middle 15 yards downfield. An incredibly uncharacteristic drop by CJ prevented at least a 20-30 yard gain, maybe even a 95 yard touchdown. Gus and Joel even agreed CJ probably could have scored if he caught it. 
2. The very next play: Sam threw another absolutely perfect ball to Eagles who was streaking down the field at our own 40. Eagles let the ball bounce off his hands, but he likely would have scored if he had held onto it. We ended up punting on that drive after being "that" close to a touchdown on back to back plays.
3. With 9 minutes left in the game, down 27-17, we had 1st & 10 on OU's 37. Sam threw yet another beautiful ball to DD in the endzone which likely would have been caught for a touchdown if not for a pretty bad DPI by OU. This ended up being a really smart penalty by OU, because we ended up only getting a FG on that drive. The most interesting thing about this play was, as the offense was hurrying to the line before the play, the camera zoomed in on Sam and he looked like he was pleading with Herman for that specific play call. Did anyone else catch that? 

As I said before, "almost" having explosive plays is not as good as having explosive plays. However, I think it's worth noting how close we were to 3 explosive, and potentially game changing plays, but just barely missed out on them. And that's just me thinking off the top of my head without re-watching the game. I'm sure there were more that I'm forgetting. 

[Sock Drawer 214]

17 hours ago, Tex Pete said:

I mostly agree. We looked terrible. That felt terrible. Still, we only lost by 7 in a game that would have been a loss by 35 for lots of our past teams. In a way I think it shows how far we’ve come. It also shows how far we have to go.

I think people are so pissed because none of us saw that coming, and because it seems like our coach and team treated it like “just another game” ala Mack Brown. After the way we physically whipped them last October, it’s puzzling. And infuriating. 

Yeah, and last year's OL wasn't as good as this year's--or at least that's what we've been led to believe. WTF happened to our OL?