Ok how do the targetting rules work?

[Valmy77 13,116]

Ok so it is just leading with your helmet and doesn't actually have to hit the head of the opposing player to be an ejection?

And why wasn't it called on the Collin Johnson helmet to helmet concussion when that player led with his helmet? I mean that wasn't even a penalty much less an ejection and the announcers suggested that was ok.

Then Sam had a helmet to helmet hit and they called the penalty but no ejection.

I don't get this ejection business at all. What is the actual rule and were these all called correctly?

[Helobious 9,483]

Just now, Valmy77 said:

Ok so it is just leading with your helmet and doesn't actually have to hit the head of the opposing player to be an ejection?

And why wasn't it called on the Collin Johnson helmet to helmet concussion when that player led with his helmet? I mean that wasn't even a penalty much less an ejection and the announcers suggested that was ok.

Then Sam had a helmet to helmet hit and they called the penalty but no ejection.

I don't get this ejection business at all. What is the actual rule and were these all called correctly?

It’s leading with your helmet, it doesn’t have to involve a hit to the other player in the head. They didn’t call the penalty on the Sam hit, the penalty on that play was defensive pass interference. 

[dcar00 14,036]

they missed both on OU(sam and CJ) but typical.  the problem I have is no review for either

[Valmy77 13,116]

1 minute ago, Helobious said:

It’s leading with your helmet, it doesn’t have to involve a hit to the other player in the head. They didn’t call the penalty on the Sam hit, the penalty on that play was defensive pass interference. 

Ah ok I thought that was roughing the passer.

It was helmet to helmet at some point, I guess they changed it at some point.

[Valmy77 13,116]

2 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

they missed both on OU(sam and CJ) but typical.  the problem I have is no review for either

Gotcha. So they just missed those. The announcers suggested that it wasn't targetting on the CJ hit which confused the fuck out of me.

[Neonmoon 38,127]

The CJ could have gone either way but the one on Sam was targeting. Not even being reviewed was bullshit. 

Also, the Roach hit was technically targeting but if a WR is allowed to slide in the field of play. Football is officially dead. 

[Rockethorn1978 6,061]

The rules are if Texas tackles let’s take a second look and if it’s ou let’s hurry the fuck up and move on nothing thing to see here.

[El Hornarino 370]

10 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

Ok so it is just leading with your helmet and doesn't actually have to hit the head of the opposing player to be an ejection?

This is basically what they used to call spearing.

[hookem48 4,631]

7 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

they missed both on OU(sam and CJ) but typical.  the problem I have is no review for either

when Herman started his injury report on the presser he said CJ is suffering from a helmet to helmet hit, lol. 

[Helobious 9,483]

1 minute ago, Neonmoon said:

The CJ could have gone either way but the one on Sam was targeting. Not even being reviewed was bullshit. 

Also, the Roach hit was technically targeting but if a WR is allowed to slide in the field of play. Football is officially dead. 

Sliding by anyone has always been allowed. You never see non-QBs do it because as a ball carrier you’re supposed to fight for every yard and not fear contact, or else get chewed out by the coaches in film. 
 

Lamb saw Roach coming and slid immediately, 100% because he wanted Roach to lower his helmet and get the flag. Pussy move but it worked. Skinny shit. 

[Valmy77 13,116]

Just now, El Hornarino said:

This is basically what they used to call spearing.

Sure it should be a PF I was just surprised that was ejection worthy.

[hookem48 4,631]

6 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

The CJ could have gone either way but the one on Sam was targeting. Not even being reviewed was bullshit. 

Also, the Roach hit was technically targeting but if a WR is allowed to slide in the field of play. Football is officially dead. 

especially when they slide at the defender's feet when he's already coming down.

[Neonmoon 38,127]

Just now, Helobious said:

Sliding by anyone has always been allowed. You never see non-QBs do it because as a ball carrier you’re supposed to fight for every yard and not fear contact, or else get chewed out by the coaches in film. 
 

Lamb saw Roach coming and slid immediately, 100% because he wanted Roach to lower his helmet and get the flag. Pussy move but it worked. Skinny shit. 

I understand that it’s legal but it’s pretty much against the spirit of the game. But I guess we are moving to 7 v 7 so everyone must adjust 

[TwiceHorn 31,309]

1 minute ago, El Hornarino said:

This is basically what they used to call spearing.

Yep there are two rules that are "targeting."  One is hitting the head of a player with "launch," and the other is leading with the crown of the helmet when the player is defenseless, regardless of where you hit them.  Seemed like the first was more of an issue the last couple of years, and the second this year so far.

[hookem48 4,631]

1 minute ago, Helobious said:

Sliding by anyone has always been allowed. You never see non-QBs do it because as a ball carrier you’re supposed to fight for every yard and not fear contact, or else get chewed out by the coaches in film. 
 

Lamb saw Roach coming and slid immediately, 100% because he wanted Roach to lower his helmet and get the flag. Pussy move but it worked. Skinny shit. 

Lamb got up celebrating the targeting immediately 

[deft 6,800]

No targeting on ou?  no wai

[Chopper 17,172]

20 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Also, the Roach hit was technically targeting but if a WR is allowed to slide in the field of play. Football is officially dead. 

I don't know how Roach was supposed to even anticipate the slide and then adjust to it in time. That some some bullshit. If it were a qb I can see the argument but not on a wr. 

[Neonmoon 38,127]

1 minute ago, Chopper said:

I don't know how Roach was supposed to even anticipate the slide and then adjust to it in time. That some some bullshit. If it were a qb I can see the argument but not on a wr. 

I’m with you. I understand protecting the QB. You expect the slide. But with a WR in the middle of the play to suddenly slide...it’s hard to anticipate and slow your tackle or whatever. It is against the spirit of the game. So now every offensive player can see a guy coming towards him and just slide real quick to draw a foul 

[WBT 20,427]

4 minutes ago, Chopper said:

I don't know how Roach was supposed to even anticipate the slide and then adjust to it in time. That some some bullshit. If it were a qb I can see the argument but not on a wr. 

Exactly.  Receivers historically have been actual football players. If someone's within 3 yards when you try to slide, it should be tough shit.

I'm sure riley saw how well it worked for the ewok last year and is now coaching it team wide.

Edited October 12, 2019 by WBT

[dcar00 14,036]

I just want an OU hit that is textbook targeting to be reviewed at least.

[El Hornarino 370]

4 minutes ago, Chopper said:

I don't know how Roach was supposed to even anticipate the slide and then adjust to it in time. That some some bullshit. If it were a qb I can see the argument but not on a wr. 

What Roach was supposed to do was not lower his head.  He would probably not have been flagged if he did.

It is just bad defense to lead with the top of your head for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is danger of injuring yourself.  Actually injury to the tackler is why spearing was made illegal to begin with (c-spine or head injury).  That is why for this version of "targeting" it doesn't matter what part of the offensive player you hit, nor does it matter if the offensive player is defenseless.

That said, I do agree that potentially several OU defenders could have been flagged for targeting as well, but they weren't and those plays also did not seem to be reviewed.  Really officiating is largely just shit these days regardless of conference, partly because refs probably expect replay to do all the heavy lifting.

[Neonmoon 38,127]

What’s ironic is I don’t actually think the Murray hit was late at all. It was targeting, but it wasn’t late. 

[TwiceHorn 31,309]

2 minutes ago, El Hornarino said:

What Roach was supposed to do was not lower his head.  He would probably not have been flagged if he did.

It is just bad defense to lead with the top of your head for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is danger of injuring yourself.  Actually injury to the tackler is why spearing was made illegal to begin with (c-spine or head injury).  That is why for this version of "targeting" it doesn't matter what part of the offensive player you hit, nor does it matter if the offensive player is defenseless.

That said, I do agree that potentially several OU defenders could have been flagged for targeting as well, but they weren't and those plays also did not seem to be reviewed.  Really officiating is largely just shit these days regardless of conference, partly because refs probably expect replay to do all the heavy lifting.

Yep, he could have just gone over/belly flopped on him.

[deft 6,800]

Receivers sliding is pussy ass shit. 

[cabowabo 4,453]

I don't know the answer, but the players should. Roach made a bone headed play there.

[Chopper 17,172]

9 minutes ago, El Hornarino said:

What Roach was supposed to do was not lower his head.  He would probably not have been flagged if he did.

I agree in part but the wide receiver who burned us all fucking game went low, any defender's natural instinct is to go low too. Nobody expected that motherfucker to lay down in the middle of the field like that. 

oh well at least atm's game is over before the end of the 2nd quarter as expected...

Edited October 12, 2019 by Chopper

[deft 6,800]

It's really not that boneheaded at 100 mph when a receiver slides.  Just sayin...

It was teh right call by the officials by definition but what is he supposed to do???

Edited October 12, 2019 by deft

[dcar00 14,036]

10 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

What’s ironic is I don’t actually think the Murray hit was late at all. It was targeting, but it wasn’t late. 

that what was bullshit about it.  that ref knew exactly what happened.  he called roughing but not targeting because he didn't want the OU player to get kicked out.  you call targeting and let video sort it out. Shit happens to our players ALL the time.  he called the roughing so the targeting would be overlooked.

Tom should get pissed about both the CJ and Sam hits because it is horseshit if you are really about helmet to helmet being a bad thing.

Edited October 12, 2019 by dcar00

[Zavala 1,384]

Lead with the helmet against a reciever catching the ball - no peneltey against OU

Hit the shoulder against a OU wide reciever, ejected 

[Zavala 1,384]

33 minutes ago, deft said:

It's really not that boneheaded at 100 mph when a receiver slides.  Just sayin...

It was teh right call by the officials by definition but what is he supposed to do???

Play in a better conference

[Uncle Nate 2,097]

1 minute ago, Zavala said:

Play in a better conference

They call it the same in every fucking conference. You are by far the dumbest fucking moron on this board. 

[Zavala 1,384]

3 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

They call it the same in every fucking conference. You are by far the dumbest fucking moron on this board. 

Lol watch the rest of the games today and name one player that gets tossed for hitting a guy in the shoulder pads. Go ahead

[Uncle Nate 2,097]

Just now, Zavala said:

Lol watch the rest of the games today and name one player that gets tossed for hitting a guy in the shoulder pads. Go ahead

The guy that got tossed led with the crown of his helmet. I don’t like the rule but they applied it correctly. 

[Uncle Nate 2,097]

And it would have been called the same in the SEC, BIG 10, AAC , PAC 12, and every other fucking conference. 

 

[Zavala 1,384]

3 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

The guy that got tossed led with the crown of his helmet. I don’t like the rule but they applied it correctly. 

Did they apply it to the DB for OU when he led with his helmet?

[Neonmoon 38,127]

4 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

The guy that got tossed led with the crown of his helmet. I don’t like the rule but they applied it correctly. 

Agreed. He should of been tossed. He lead with the crown. 

Murray should of been tossed for his hit against Sam

[deft 6,800]

Zavala is ejected until 2nd half of next game.

[Zavala 1,384]

2 minutes ago, deft said:

Zavala is ejected until 2nd half of next game.

Aw I'm not blaming Orlando sorry

[Nueces River Rat 5,530]

1 hour ago, Chopper said:

I don't know how Roach was supposed to even anticipate the slide and then adjust to it in time. That some some bullshit. If it were a qb I can see the argument but not on a wr. 

And he hit on the fricken shoulder pads.   I get it if he would have made helmet to helmet.  But this was laughable that this resulted in an ejection and the hit on CJ and Sam wasn’t even reviewed. That’s the shit that drives fans crazy. 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11,810]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yep, he could have just gone over/belly flopped on him.

Best move is to go over but hit his head with your knee.  

[Bigbend1812 12,896]

[Rudiger 1,160]

It’s a judgment call. You see, if in your judgment you need to influence the outcome of the game, then you call targeting and eject an impact player. It’s actually very simple. 

[hookem48 4,631]

what really sucks is Roach was trying to put his hat on the ball, something you're supposed to do and the guy takes a dive

[Nueces River Rat 5,530]

30 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

The guy that got tossed led with the crown of his helmet. I don’t like the rule but they applied it correctly. 

I’m watching Bama/aggy right now and I’m seeing crowns of helmets hitting the upper and lower parts of both teams and no flags.  This  is the problem with rule and it’s the inconsistency of how it’s enforced.  It’s original intent was to prevent launching upwards toward a players helmet and its been erroneously expanded to include other parts now.   This on top of not reviewing what looks like real targeting like what knocked CJ out of the game.  The booth officials have the right to do so and that very play was being reviewed for possession purposes and it should have been called.   Roach should have maybe been called for a late hit, but that is even subjective because he was in the process of making the hit when the whistle was blown.  

[hayden_horn 11,360]

Roach lowered his head amd led with the crown of his helmet. This is fucking easy yall. In middle school, we were always taught to see what you hit. He didn't. i hate that he didn't but it was the right call.

[Tex Pete 20,184]

An okie defender hit Sam helmet to helmet on our last TD. Still waiting for the flag. 

[Zavala 1,384]

2 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

Roach lowered his head amd led with the crown of his helmet. This is fucking easy yall. In middle school, we were always taught to see what you hit. He didn't. i hate that he didn't but it was the right call.

Did they call any "targeting" on blowU players leading with the helmet?

Especially the play on CJ, what a joke.

[EZ$ 2,102]

Is there a thread where pass interference is explained?  We got a couple at the end, but damn, our guys were having to catch one handed half the time. 

[Tex Pete 20,184]

Grinch admitted to the TV guys that his players are coached to hold and interfere because the refs won’t call them all.

It’s worked for their OL holding for years. Why wouldn’t that be their philosophy?

[cam4mav 770]

Repeatedly you'd see a fist full of jersey. Clearly it is coached, and honestly the practice is obviously worth it given the results.

How often have you seen Dev and CJ get so little separation, all game. Even Eagles. 85 needs to stop playing like a little girl, but he's young. It took CJ a few years to learn he was a monster compared to the little guys covering him. Not sure what was up with Jake today, didn't see much. Related note, we needed to take their aggressiveness and throw high back shoulder to CJ and Eagles when it was 1v1 and man with over the top coverage. Higher balls means more reaching and more obvious holding..... Plus we'd probably catch it anyways. 

On CJ's injury, when he broke his route from vertical to over the middle, the DB had a fist full of jersey and held him to recover. 

They called one of these later in the game, but I saw I think 3 others with closed fist on jersey impacting the route at the break. 

 

It's a hard thing to catch unless it's obvious. Like holding on the line, you need to get some arm action or something to draw attention to the hold. 

 

 

As for targeting, yeah Roach led with the crown, not just above facemask but the very top of his helmet. Easy call. Sucks but as said above, see what you hit. Keeps your head up and improves accuracy. 

Hell last week, Dicker honestly should have been flagged for it. BJ Foster also on his stinger hit, simply for leading with top of the helmet. However I think the fact it's an ejection right now is causing refs to "consider" when calling it, not just enforcing a rule. They should change it to have a 15 yard penalty no ejection based on defenseless and based on helmet to helmet. Roach should be the 15 yard version of that. Lowered head but not helmet to helmet. Same for Dicker and BJ. 

Sam got rocked head to head, calling that late hit was bullshit, the timing was actually pretty great but that was helmet to helmet with on a defenseless player (act of throwing). You can't hit QB's there like that. So that was the wrong call also, by the book right now yeah that's an ejection imo. 

CJ play was more incidental because CJ did lower his head right before contact happened. Defender needs to do a better job of lining up contact there and keep head up more. I don't think that was ejection worthy, but if there was a 15 yard personal foul for helmet to helmet hit, yeah there you go. 

 

Of course we are all drunk and these ideas and comments may be retarded and/or not how the rules work.

 

Edited October 13, 2019 by cam4mav