2020 Coaching Staff

[closetohumping 17,480]

4 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

Oh shit. We’re going to hire the Kansas St guy aren’t we? 

 

Who the fuck are going to be out position coaches?

If messingham is our oc, does it matter?

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13,120]

8 minutes ago, Cap Hooked said:

I think anyone with a functioning brain would get that impression from your posts. Or get the impression you’re Tom himself. With your- “Ha, Harrell is not even a good OC, glad he’s not our OC” -self

Never said Harrell wasn’t a good OC, just not a good fit for our current situation. I’ve thought Herman was a douche from the beginning and don’t think he’ll ever be a very successful head coach. Some of you are way over the top with your fucking drama and made up bullshit.

[softlynow 1,840]

7 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

Oh shit. We’re going to hire the Kansas St guy aren’t we? 

 

Who the fuck are going to be out position coaches?

Accurate typo. Out (of) position coaches. Tom’s favorite. 

[UncleBuck 6,455]

 
Who the fuck are going to be out position coaches?

Check the local retirement homes


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sock Drawer 214]

1 hour ago, TornACL said:

[harvdog] Well unhire him!!! [/harvdog] 

Our fans are such a shit show during a coaching search. 

FIFY

[Michael Knight 12,995]

At this point we haven't fucking hired anyone, fuck it lets just cut our losses now and fire Tom. Roll the dice with the next coach.

[Chooky 13,319]

Courtney Messingham was 3 - 17 as a head coach.  I wouldn't judge that record.  It was a splash hire that just didn't work out.  

[Capn81 373]

Courtney Messingham was 3 - 17 as a head coach.  I wouldn't judge that record.  It was a splash hire that just didn't work out.  

Now combine that with Ash’s record at Rutgers. Gotta hire coaches who understand that winning is hard.

[satyanash 14,638]

1 minute ago, Chooky said:

Courtney Messingham was 3 - 17 as a head coach.  I wouldn't judge that record.  It was a splash hire that just didn't work out.  

ESPN: Iowa State fires offensive coordinator Courtney Messingham (from 2013)

Quote

Iowa State coach Paul Rhoads is looking to amp up the offensive attack in Ames. Offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach Courtney Messingham and running backs coach Kenith Pope have been relieved of their duties, Rhoads announced in a school release Sunday afternoon.

The Cyclones' offense was stuck in neutral for the majority of the season. It finished in the bottom three of the Big 12 in points per game (24.8), yards per game (363), yards per play (4.82), rushing yards (143.83) and passing yards (219.17). Messingham has coached at Southern Mississippi and Missouri State during his 23-year career.

The Cyclones quarterbacks were inconsistent throughout much of the year. Quarterback Sam Richardson did not progress as expected during his sophomore season, though freshman quarterback Grant Rohach came on during the Cyclones' two-game winning streak to end the year.

"I want to thank both Courtney and Kenith for their service to Iowa State," Rhoads said in a statement. "They have great character and work ethic, and have been excellent ambassadors for the university and community. They worked hard to help elevate our program and have been an important part of the success we have had in this program the last five years."

Sounds like a real winner.

[Walden Ponderer 12,639]

I firmly believe that there is an excellent chance that Tom Herman will retire as the most successful New Mexico State head football coach of the 21st century.

[Chuckie Finster 22,754]

16 minutes ago, Elmer_Fudd said:

Our top WR commit is going to flip to TCU tomorrow because we don't have an OC and WR Coach.

Luckily, WRs are not important in the Big 12.

Edited December 17, 2019 by Chuckie Finster

[alphahorn 1,637]

43 minutes ago, MoJames said:

Carol.

This fits right into today's trend in both pros and college to hire the young bright offensive minds. It's all about cutting edge offenses with guys who have run spread offenses then add their own unique tweaks to take them to the next level.  what's not to like?

[alphahorn 1,637]

2 minutes ago, Walden Ponderer said:

I firmly believe that there is an excellent chance that Tom Herman will retire as the most successful New Mexico State head football coach of the 21st century.

Fuck you, I just moved to the Las Cruces area, don't bring that curse on me!

[Bobby_Batronic 1,994]

38 minutes ago, Walden Ponderer said:

Personally I would prefer for the reason to be that he's an overrated hack who thinks of Greg Davis as a mentor, but that clearly is not a disqualifying characteristic.

I guess I’d start with the basic background check of a candidate, and veto him for an inability to quit boffing student trainers while his wife was pregnant.  And then look into his actual abilities if he turned out to be an ok human.  

[gmr548 16,617]

The mark of a good Surly meltdown is taking a single sentence from Chip Brown and running with it.

[Harvdog 2,300]

18 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

Good for you, man. Keep laughing. Back rub that teenager as much as you can, too. We all think it is awesome that you guys are so close. 

Haters gonna hate. At least you have a board where you can go vent.  😂. I will do that. Thanks for the kind words and I will send your best wishes to him. 

[Chooky 13,319]

Messingham was fired by Paul Rhoads for making Paul's face do this:

[DaysOff 7,977]

Will CDC approve of Major after he manhandled that big booty latina bitch during Alamo Bowl Prep? 

.

[JesusSweatDuck 17,814]

59 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Fake

Don't care, fapped anyways

[Hank_Hill 18,896]

Curious, did anyone give a shit about Graham Harrell before his name was pumped to us by the “media”? Obviously the optics arent great but think a lot of y’all built him up to be something we don’t know if he is, or can be, yet. That said obviously plan b could be shit also.

[El Squared 1,813]

3 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

So Harrell really was never offered if thats the amount USC got him at. Herman better have a good fucking plan that we're all just too stupid to understand and is super under wraps. Its pretty fucking apparent that the $9.95s have less than 0 clue

The delay and the amount of the contract to me means that this game is actually about Herman getting told he is dead man walking and he just pulled the ripcord on his golden parachute and will be mailing it in next season as a pricy place holder.

JFC.

[6th Street 6,508]

10 minutes ago, Capn81 said:

 

Now combine that with Ash’s record at Rutgers. Gotta hire coaches who understand that winning is hard.

 

Haha combined 11-49 record, 18% winning percentage 

[Pam Cummings 9,684]

51 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

The only person that idiotic on this board is you and your simple “Texas fans are so stupid” mantra with nothing else to offer. 

You are a perpetual and willful dipshit with the “everything is fine” nonsense. You’re Baghdad Bob for this site and yet you fail to recognize that. Your recent “except no one will actually be flipping” comment after like 4 guys decommit and ahead of several other potential ones is particularly hilarious. Just shut the fuck up with the fake bullshit and keep the twitter updates going until Machinator slinks back. 

 

You’ve really brought nothing to the table here except feigning a position above the fray based on the concept that Herman has his head handling a far more complicated process than we can comprehend. You should be fucking negged into having to find a new handle. The next “I get it and you guys just don’t, Herman’s got this” propaganda from you should lead to a fucking permaban. 

I’ve met the guy and I know others who have as well. We’re not all waiting to be blessed by a visit from an overpaid dipshit actively failing at his job. I will happily join you at his next public appearance and call his bullshit out in public if you stand beside me. Then you can regale the crowd with how your loving relationship with Tunmise Adeloye validates him from being a fucking imbecile on social media and someone we should all love irrespective of his college choices. Should be awesome. 

[Vertigo 20,336]

2 hours ago, TheMailBox357 said:

 

I said last offseason that Herman should hire Major to replace Beck, but folks negged me for it. If he had did that, Herman wouldn't be in a position that he's coaching for his job next season.

Those negs must have really taken their toll.

[satyanash 14,638]

Good analysis of Courtney Messingham's offense below.

(Ross Uglem) SPECIAL ANALYSIS: The Messingham Playbook

To understand the Courtney Messingham offensive system that's coming to Kansas State, you have to travel back in time a bit. You see, NDSU's system isn't truly his. Not a whole lot changed when Tim Polasek left to coach Iowa's offensive line in 2017. Frankly not much changed when he took over NDSU's offense from Brent Vigen after Vigen followed Bohl to Wyoming.

North Dakota State hired Bob Babich to replace Rocky Hager when they were still in NCAA D2.  The 1996 team was a heavy option run team, as QB Kevin Feeney led the team with 182 rushing attempts. Babich installed the Power I in '97 moving forward, and the NDSU pro-style offense was born. It evolved into more of a West Coast scheme when Bohl arrived and brought in Northwestern transfer Tony Stauss to usher NDSU into Division I.

Here is the program's glorious bread and butter: Power.

NDSU's offense is no longer "West Coast".  The quick slants and short passing game, in general, are not a primary way of moving the ball down the field.  North Dakota State now contracts the defense by slamming the ball down their throats with the run game, then when the safeties are up, they go over the top.  NDSU quarterback Easton Stick, a legit pro prospect, has an AY/A of 10.9.  That's kind of a silly number.  When posed against Skylar Thompson's 6.7 and Alex Delton's 6.3 it looks even sillier.  Stick is averaging nearly 16 yards per completion, and his Average Depth of Target has to be close to leading the FCS.  They bomb the ball down the field.

Kansas State is really getting a continuously evolving version of the NDSU offense that started when Bohl arrived, not some system that Messingham brought with him from Iowa State and Montana State.  Make no mistake, Coach Mess brought that offense to new heights, but the roots lie deep within Bison Football.  Let's break down what Wildcat fans can expect from their new offense.  I'll try to point out specific ideas and tendencies from Messingham when I can.

A-Gap Power

I'll start by saying there won't be a better explanation of NDSU's power scheme than the one done by USA Football's Noah Riley.  The basic difference in the way that most teams run power and that way that NDSU does it is the shuffle pull from the pulling guard to keep his shoulders square to the hole.  Usually, a pulling guard will open up and run square to the sideline executing a "kick out" block a defensive end or outside linebacker.  Watch 64 shuffle his feet and lead 8 through the hole.

There are plenty of A Gap Power runs for three and four yards in the first quarter that turned into 60 and 70-yard gains in the second half because teams are simply worn down.  It's a difficult play to defend down after down after down.

RB Vert / RB Wheel

This is the most famous concept from NDSU's scheme.  Both because of just how lethal it is and because it's been co-opted by multiple NFL offenses.  ESPN.com's Mike Sando profiled the concept.  It first made it's an appearance in 2014, the first season Carson Wentz was the starter.  It's a Tim Polasek idea that Messingham has tweaked and still uses with incredible efficiency. Here's the first example I could find of the route concept, though RB/FB Chase Morlock lined up as the tight end in this example.

It's usually to a running back out of the backfield though:

and often comes out of this formation.  Some offenses will call this "Gun Trey", some an "inverted wishbone", and I believe NDSU refers to it as "Delta".

Messingham as found a couple different ways to utilize this route combo.  He's stressed the seam as well as faking an inside run instead of a sweep. The play has been so successful over the years that fans recognize it when it starts to develop and usually rise to their feet.

Shotgun Run Game: Zone Read, Inside Zone and QB Power

This is certainly one that K-State fans will recognize.  In fact, I would guess a lot of K-State fans would say they've seen a little too much zone read and inside zone.  That's kind of how you end up with Alex Barnes, Skylar Thompson and Alex Delton accounting for 446 of K-State's 503 rushing attempts.  Those 446 rushing attempts counted for 56% of every play Kansas State called.  The Wildcats ran it almost 2x as much as they threw it.  I'd care to say 85+% of those attempts were out of the gun.  There are certainly shotgun run plays in NDSU's lexicon. 

You can see a similar read of the backside end here between Delton and Barnes in the '18 Cactus Bowl.  Frankly, this is probably one that Delton should've kept, but ultimately Barnes makes the play and gets the DE across his face anyway.

QB Power is always one to watch for from Messingham, specifically in the red zone. 

Run-Pass Options

This will ultimately depend on how much trust is established between Messingham and his quarterbacks.  RPOs (Run-Pass Options) are not something that belong in every offense, and contrary to popular belief they're not the same thing as play-action passes.  They require a skilled QB that can process information quickly.  I believe Skylar Thompson has every tool in the world to be that QB. We'll see. When executed correctly they're darn near indefensible.  When executed poorly it's begging for disaster, specifically the ineligible men downfield type of disaster.  Also turnovers. Those are a

North Dakota State's use of the run-pass option really increased during Stick's Junior and Senior seasons, both under QB coach Randy Hedberg (staying at NDSU) and Coach Mess.

"Smash" Route Concept

One of the Messingham specials is the "Smash" route concept.  This ITP profile on the concept actually includes NDSU film.  The basic concept is an outside receiver runs a stop route, either a hook or a curl, and a slot or tight end runs a corner or flag route.  

It stresses C2 because the C2 Corner sits on the stop route and the C2 safety can't get to the sideline fast enough.  It also works just fine against Man to Man and C4.  Usually, against C3 the stop route is an easy pitch and catch. 

Ultimately, expect there to be more under center looks, but for the run-pass ratio to remain similar.  If K-State can continue to play excellent defense, Messingham/NDSU's run control/deep passing offense will use multiple personnel to confuse defenses and succeed at Kansas State.  Expect mass skill position substitutions play in and play out and plenty of pre-snap motion.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

5 minutes ago, Hank_Hill said:

Curious, did anyone give a shit about Graham Harrell before his name was pumped to us by the “media”? Obviously the optics arent great but think a lot of y’all built him up to be something we don’t know if he is, or can be, yet. That said obviously plan b could be shit also.

RC didn’t offer

[TheMailBox357 213]

4 minutes ago, Hank_Hill said:

Curious, did anyone give a shit about Graham Harrell before his name was pumped to us by the “media”? Obviously the optics arent great but think a lot of y’all built him up to be something we don’t know if he is, or can be, yet. That said obviously plan b could be shit also.

The fact Graham Harrell is a proven Air Raid OC & had success at USC gave him instant credibility as an OC candidate.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

1 minute ago, satyanash said:

Good analysis of Courtney Messingham's offense below.

(Ross Uglem) SPECIAL ANALYSIS: The Messingham Playbook

 

  Reveal hidden contents

To understand the Courtney Messingham offensive system that's coming to Kansas State, you have to travel back in time a bit. You see, NDSU's system isn't truly his. Not a whole lot changed when Tim Polasek left to coach Iowa's offensive line in 2017. Frankly not much changed when he took over NDSU's offense from Brent Vigen after Vigen followed Bohl to Wyoming.

North Dakota State hired Bob Babich to replace Rocky Hager when they were still in NCAA D2.  The 1996 team was a heavy option run team, as QB Kevin Feeney led the team with 182 rushing attempts. Babich installed the Power I in '97 moving forward, and the NDSU pro-style offense was born. It evolved into more of a West Coast scheme when Bohl arrived and brought in Northwestern transfer Tony Stauss to usher NDSU into Division I.

Here is the program's glorious bread and butter: Power.

NDSU's offense is no longer "West Coast".  The quick slants and short passing game, in general, are not a primary way of moving the ball down the field.  North Dakota State now contracts the defense by slamming the ball down their throats with the run game, then when the safeties are up, they go over the top.  NDSU quarterback Easton Stick, a legit pro prospect, has an AY/A of 10.9.  That's kind of a silly number.  When posed against Skylar Thompson's 6.7 and Alex Delton's 6.3 it looks even sillier.  Stick is averaging nearly 16 yards per completion, and his Average Depth of Target has to be close to leading the FCS.  They bomb the ball down the field.

Kansas State is really getting a continuously evolving version of the NDSU offense that started when Bohl arrived, not some system that Messingham brought with him from Iowa State and Montana State.  Make no mistake, Coach Mess brought that offense to new heights, but the roots lie deep within Bison Football.  Let's break down what Wildcat fans can expect from their new offense.  I'll try to point out specific ideas and tendencies from Messingham when I can.

A-Gap Power

I'll start by saying there won't be a better explanation of NDSU's power scheme than the one done by USA Football's Noah Riley.  The basic difference in the way that most teams run power and that way that NDSU does it is the shuffle pull from the pulling guard to keep his shoulders square to the hole.  Usually, a pulling guard will open up and run square to the sideline executing a "kick out" block a defensive end or outside linebacker.  Watch 64 shuffle his feet and lead 8 through the hole.

There are plenty of A Gap Power runs for three and four yards in the first quarter that turned into 60 and 70-yard gains in the second half because teams are simply worn down.  It's a difficult play to defend down after down after down.

RB Vert / RB Wheel

This is the most famous concept from NDSU's scheme.  Both because of just how lethal it is and because it's been co-opted by multiple NFL offenses.  ESPN.com's Mike Sando profiled the concept.  It first made it's an appearance in 2014, the first season Carson Wentz was the starter.  It's a Tim Polasek idea that Messingham has tweaked and still uses with incredible efficiency. Here's the first example I could find of the route concept, though RB/FB Chase Morlock lined up as the tight end in this example.

It's usually to a running back out of the backfield though:

and often comes out of this formation.  Some offenses will call this "Gun Trey", some an "inverted wishbone", and I believe NDSU refers to it as "Delta".

Messingham as found a couple different ways to utilize this route combo.  He's stressed the seam as well as faking an inside run instead of a sweep. The play has been so successful over the years that fans recognize it when it starts to develop and usually rise to their feet.

Shotgun Run Game: Zone Read, Inside Zone and QB Power

This is certainly one that K-State fans will recognize.  In fact, I would guess a lot of K-State fans would say they've seen a little too much zone read and inside zone.  That's kind of how you end up with Alex Barnes, Skylar Thompson and Alex Delton accounting for 446 of K-State's 503 rushing attempts.  Those 446 rushing attempts counted for 56% of every play Kansas State called.  The Wildcats ran it almost 2x as much as they threw it.  I'd care to say 85+% of those attempts were out of the gun.  There are certainly shotgun run plays in NDSU's lexicon. 

You can see a similar read of the backside end here between Delton and Barnes in the '18 Cactus Bowl.  Frankly, this is probably one that Delton should've kept, but ultimately Barnes makes the play and gets the DE across his face anyway.

QB Power is always one to watch for from Messingham, specifically in the red zone. 

Run-Pass Options

This will ultimately depend on how much trust is established between Messingham and his quarterbacks.  RPOs (Run-Pass Options) are not something that belong in every offense, and contrary to popular belief they're not the same thing as play-action passes.  They require a skilled QB that can process information quickly.  I believe Skylar Thompson has every tool in the world to be that QB. We'll see. When executed correctly they're darn near indefensible.  When executed poorly it's begging for disaster, specifically the ineligible men downfield type of disaster.  Also turnovers. Those are a

North Dakota State's use of the run-pass option really increased during Stick's Junior and Senior seasons, both under QB coach Randy Hedberg (staying at NDSU) and Coach Mess.

"Smash" Route Concept

One of the Messingham specials is the "Smash" route concept.  This ITP profile on the concept actually includes NDSU film.  The basic concept is an outside receiver runs a stop route, either a hook or a curl, and a slot or tight end runs a corner or flag route.  

It stresses C2 because the C2 Corner sits on the stop route and the C2 safety can't get to the sideline fast enough.  It also works just fine against Man to Man and C4.  Usually, against C3 the stop route is an easy pitch and catch. 

Ultimately, expect there to be more under center looks, but for the run-pass ratio to remain similar.  If K-State can continue to play excellent defense, Messingham/NDSU's run control/deep passing offense will use multiple personnel to confuse defenses and succeed at Kansas State.  Expect mass skill position substitutions play in and play out and plenty of pre-snap motion.

 

Too soon.

[Michael Knight 12,995]

why the fuck are we discussing Courtney Messingham's offense

[deech 2,297]

1 minute ago, Michael Knight said:

why the fuck are we discussing Courtney Messingham's offense

Because some fraudulent cocksucker pulled his name out of his ass.

[satyanash 14,638]

1 minute ago, Michael Knight said:

why the fuck are we discussing Courtney Messingham's offense

[gmr548 16,617]

2 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

why the fuck are we discussing Courtney Messingham's offense

Because Chip Brown said so.

[Vertigo 20,336]

2 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

why the fuck are we discussing Courtney Messingham's offense

Because Burton hasn’t finished breaking down Wade Lang’s offense.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

1 minute ago, deech said:

Because some fraudulent cocksucker pulled his name out of his ass.

Chip is blacked out and fart laughing at the shitshow that post created. He couldn’t even bring himself to pretend his sources were saying that name. He just completely pulled it out of his ass. I’m having fun.

[Capn81 373]

Haha combined 11-49 record, 18% winning percentage 

Winning is hard, man. The Herman out front should have told ya.

[El Squared 1,813]

2 hours ago, DaysOff said:

3 hours ago, Walden Ponderer said:

Courtney Messingham was 3-19 as a head coach at Upper Iowa.

I can't believe there's an Upper Iowa.

Upper Iowa is the 2019 Tulsa. It obviously means the BMDs give no focks, and TH is out of here.

The firings were for the recruits.

[Chuckie Finster 22,754]

36 minutes ago, Elmer_Fudd said:

Our top WR commit is going to flip to TCU tomorrow because we don't have an OC and WR Coach.

He just officially flipped.

[Hank_Hill 18,896]

9 minutes ago, TheMailBox357 said:

The fact Graham Harrell is a proven Air Raid OC & had success at USC gave him instant credibility as an OC candidate.

No doubt, just curious if he was at the top of anyone on heres board and would have been regarded as some can’t miss program changing commodity if he hadn’t been the first name fed to us. I think no.

Edited December 17, 2019 by Hank_Hill

[Hiphopopotamos 20,889]

6 minutes ago, deech said:

Because some fraudulent cocksucker pulled his name out of his ass.

At this point it’s two fraudulent cocksuckers that have mentioned him: FuckChipBrown and SuperK

[theaveragejon 988]

It’s just annoying. 

[Doc Reeves 6,434]

1 hour ago, CastHorn said:

Will CDC approve of Major after he manhandled that big booty latina bitch during Alamo Bowl Prep? 

didn’t he get off completely and then our former women’s track coach deposed everyone and then used that in her suit against UT to win a shitload of cash?

whatever. How soon can he get here?

[Michael Knight 12,995]

10 minutes ago, satyanash said:

Again, at no fucking point should we be discussing Courtney Messingham's offense

[Surly Bevo 25,197]

Just now, Doc Reeves said:

didn’t he get off completely

Probably, fat latinas have a bag of tricks.

[Hiphopopotamos 20,889]

1 minute ago, Michael Knight said:

Again, at no fucking point should we be discussing Courtney Messingham's offense

And yet...

here we are. 

[Michael Knight 12,995]

[CTC2 2,802]

Why can't we have nice things?

[Modessit 5,606]

I can't believe there's an Upper Iowa.

Lake Okoboji is awesome. Wonder if Arnold's Park is still there?

[Doc Reeves 6,434]

1 minute ago, Surly Bevo said:

Probably, fat latinas have a bag of tricks.

That’s true. There’s also a good (and slightly racist) chance she wasn’t into condoms

[theaveragejon 988]

Why are things so difficult for Texas. I just don’t get it. 

[El Squared 1,813]

1 hour ago, MoJames said:

Carol.

The wall art tells the story. Why not mount Spirographs you did in 3rd grade or hand turkeys? All would be equally impressive.