2020 Coaching Staff

[MrBig 5442]

“I had a large pool of fired coaches to pick from, but Ash and Beaty are the best for this job.” 

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

7 minutes ago, trythisathome said:

No lie, I actually had a dream that Colt was our OC last night. He'd be a better hire than most, anyway. 

He's pretty much the one and only "Greg Davis is my mentor" guy whose opinion isn't complete garbage. Mostly because I suspect he is only being polite when he says it. 

 

But like hell am I willing to wager on that notion. You like Greg Davis as an offensive mind, you can stay the fuck away from coaching in this program, that's my take.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

16 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

I will again point to the rally in the Tech game as a possible data point for something changing with the team and something that could be traced back to the head coach.

You need to stop doing this.

[closetojumping 62879]

This all reminds me of something I didn’t post in October because I got depressed from watching the games and decommitments. 

I have a good friend that played CFB with Neal Brown. They’ve remained buddies. Brown ends up hosting my friend and a couple of their other college friends for the next WVU home game after Texas. 

My buddy comes back from the trip, my wife and I and he and his wife go out for dinner. He tells several Holgerson legend stories from WVU that Brown inherited and then he starts talking about Tom Herman. Brown has now interacted with Herman during the Big 12 media stuff in the summer and the week of the UT/WVU game. Said two things about Herman stand out: 1) He’s completely destestable. Can’t figure out how this guy ever signs a recruit or got a HC gig, much less another one at Texas. He’s Shooter McGavin with a HC gig and 2) He’s a total fucking meathead. He’s like shockingly stupid and comes across as though he thinks he’s highly intelligent but has nothing behind that with anything he ever says. 

Anyway, both of those things mesh with what I’ve seen in limited exposure personally and everything we hear these days from the rumors and journalists. 

[RomaVicta 30024]

1 minute ago, closetojumping said:

Boy, you really are hanging by a thread if you’re betting this hard on the tech game being a sign of anything long term. I don’t want to be around when you snap. ... Well, actually I do, but surely most people wouldn’t. 

This is a pretty good example of reading more into a post than is there. What I call a possible data point, you recreate me betting on that point as a long term indicator. I'm not betting on anything. My back to back posts are clear on that. 

It's amusing that you want to believe that I'm on the verge of snapping.This thread provides so many other posters who may soon snap if they have not already.

I think you like feuds and getting other people worked up. That's a poor accompaniment to your often very good analysis. I won't play, CTJ. However, if you want to harpoon me, do so with an accurate portrayal of what I write. You've been down that road once. Maybe you will be more effective next time.

Written without rancor.

[texashorn13 228]

8 minutes ago, GTX Horn said:

“Hiring Offensive Coordinators is hard.” -Tom Herman, probably

It certainly is when no one wants to work for you and your program is being referred to as the “Titanic” amongst high school football coaches.

[RGBIII 22840]

I listened to FCB podcast so y’all don’t have to

besides being masturbatory that FCB “broke” the Ash news here is the other probable bs he spewed (taped before the Harrell news)

-Orlando was fired so Herman could hire Ash any other convos with other candidates were complete shams

-Ash called the defense in 14 and 15(not sure that was ever confirmed)

-Herman thought for sure he would get Harrell, never considered otherwise

-brought up Messingham as a backup option

[Hiphopopotamos 20889]

*I do not want Courtney Messingham as the Offensive Coordinator of this University*

 

 Those North Dakota State 'Power O' offenses were tough and the passing game was explosive as hell - its everything Tom Herman wants in his offense, and Courtney Messingham was at the controls of it for three seasons and 2 National Championships.   

If Sam had even a slightly better deep ball it would be the perfect offense for him.

 

*I do not want Courtney Messingham as the Offensive Coordinator of this University*

[Rhinotx 500]

1 minute ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

*I do not want Courtney Messingham as the Offensive Coordinator of this University*

 

 Those North Dakota State 'Power O' offenses were tough and the passing game was explosive as hell - its everything Tom Herman wants in his offense, and Courtney Messingham was at the controls of it for three seasons and 2 National Championships.   

If Sam had even a slightly better deep ball it would be the perfect offense for him.

 

*I do not want Courtney Messingham as the Offensive Coordinator of this University*

I don't think we have the o-line to run power anything

[Hiphopopotamos 20889]

3 minutes ago, RGBIII said:

I listened to FCB podcast so y’all don’t have to

besides being masturbatory that FCB “broke” the Ash news here is the other probable bs he spewed (taped before the Harrell news)

-Orlando was fired so Herman could hire Ash any other convos with other candidates were complete shams

-Ash called the defense in 14 and 15(not sure that was ever confirmed)

-Herman thought for sure he would get Harrell, never considered otherwise

-brought up Messingham as a backup option

I need to find the article - but I read something last week that was written shortly after Ash was hired at OSU and it made clear that Fickell was being demoted and that Ash would be running the defense.  Given the circumstances of the hire - I have no reason to doubt that Ash was brought on to run that Ohio St defense.

[RomaVicta 30024]

15 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

When you say “you don’t know shit”...is that because you need someone with firsthand knowledge to provide a detailed account of every single thing that has happened up to this point?

is there any point in time where you just look at what we do know and feel comfortable making a judgement on how well a process is playing out...?

I have guesses from time to time. Do you weigh the information you're getting? If not, do you have a college education?

Edited December 17, 2019 by RomaVicta
Thanks to DNHC for copy editing and catching the misuse of your rather than you're.

[closetojumping 62879]

2 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

This is a pretty good example of reading more into a post than is there. What I call a possible data point, you recreate me betting on that point as a long term indicator. I'm not betting on anything. My back to back posts are clear on that. 

It's amusing that you want to believe that I'm on the verge of snapping.This thread provides so many other posters who may soon snap if they have not already.

I think you like feuds and getting other people worked up. That's a poor accompaniment to your often very good analysis. I won't play, CTJ. However, if you want to harpoon me, do so with an accurate portrayal of what I write. You've been down that road once. Maybe you will be more effective next time.

Written without rancor.

You’ve referenced the tech game being more meaningful than just another game against a sad sack opponent. You’ve done that now in multiple posts. I mocked it. Over and done.

I don’t know what the rest of your post is intended to do, but I don’t have an interest in any lengthy discussion with you. They’re unrewarding. You’re like a milquetoast version of the archetypical pollyanna poster that can’t take a position or be convicted of anything until the events and circumstances are well in the rear view mirror. None of us can assume or presume anything because we aren’t walking that mile in rocket scientist Tom Herman’s shoes. Right.

Written with invective. 

[RomaVicta 30024]

8 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

You need to stop doing this.

Indeed. I want to be more like you.

[Huckleberry 33100]

Our OL is still being shit on way too much around here. They were asked to block the same running play 35 times per game while our RB's alignment told the defense when it might be a run. Then they were asked to pass block for a QB with limited route progression ability while our RB's alignment guaranteed it was a pass play, not to mention as defenses figured out our limited route combinations and sat on routes.

They weren't world-beaters but they certainly weren't the main issue with the offense like we've been used to the last several seasons.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

3 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

I have guesses from time to time. Do you weigh the information your getting? If not, do you have a college education?

*you're

[RomaVicta 30024]

1 minute ago, closetojumping said:

You’ve referenced the tech game being more meaningful than just another game against a sad sack opponent. You’ve done that now in multiple posts. I mocked it. Over and done.

I don’t know what the rest of your post is intended to do, but I don’t have an interest in any lengthy discussion with you. They’re unrewarding. You’re like a milquetoast version of the archetypical pollyanna poster that can’t take a position or be convicted of anything until the events and circumstances are well in the rear view mirror. None of us can assume or presume anything because we aren’t walking that mile in rocket scientist Tom Herman’s shoes. Right.

Written with invective. 

It's good invective. You stick with a lame point and then wrap it in some quality ad hominem. Your valediction is funny, too.

[RomaVicta 30024]

1 minute ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

*you're

Point taken. I caught the same error in my response to CTJ. Sadly, I missed it in the one for you.

[Thiefery 5017]

10 minutes ago, RGBIII said:

I listened to FCB podcast so y’all don’t have to

besides being masturbatory that FCB “broke” the Ash news here is the other probable bs he spewed (taped before the Harrell news)

-Orlando was fired so Herman could hire Ash any other convos with other candidates were complete shams

-Ash called the defense in 14 and 15(not sure that was ever confirmed)

-Herman thought for sure he would get Harrell, never considered otherwise

-brought up Messingham as a backup option

Taylor Gaspar/estes is hammering the first to know over a week ago chants.. taking shots at OB on twitter.. Shit Surly knew Ash was gonna be the hire the day Orlando was let go

 

[UncleBuck 6455]

3 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Our OL is still being shit on way too much around here. They were asked to block the same running play 35 times per game while our RB's alignment told the defense when it might be a run. Then they were asked to pass block for a QB with limited route progression ability while our RB's alignment guaranteed it was a pass play, not to mention as defenses figured out our limited route combinations and sat on routes.

They weren't world-beaters but they certainly weren't the main issue with the offense like we've been used to the last several seasons.

This is so on the got damned point.

[Dbeasy 15093]

This all reminds me of something I didn’t post in October because I got depressed from watching the games and decommitments. 
I have a good friend that played CFB with Neal Brown. They’ve remained buddies. Brown ends up hosting my friend and a couple of their other college friends for the next WVU home game after Texas. 
My buddy comes back from the trip, my wife and I and he and his wife go out for dinner. He tells several Holgerson legend stories from WVU that Brown inherited and then he starts talking about Tom Herman. Brown has now interacted with Herman during the Big 12 media stuff in the summer and the week of the UT/WVU game. Said two things about Herman stand out: 1) He’s completely destestable. Can’t figure out how this guy ever signs a recruit or got a HC gig, much less another one at Texas. He’s Shooter McGavin with a HC gig and 2) He’s a total fucking meathead. He’s like shockingly stupid and comes across as though he thinks he’s highly intelligent but has nothing behind that with anything he ever says. 
Anyway, both of those things mesh with what I’ve seen in limited exposure personally and everything we hear these days from the rumors and journalists. 

Holy shit this is incredibly depressing. If true, they should cut bait today.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

3 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Point taken. I caught the same error in my response to CTJ. Sadly, I missed it in the one for you.

so take some college-educated guesses...what's your best guess as to what has transpired so far behind the scenes with these searches...genuinely curious to hear thoughts from folks that are above the fray.

[MrBig 5442]

Just now, Dbeasy said:

 

Holy shit this is incredibly depressing. If true, they should cut bait today.

 

It makes me want to invite Herman out to a steakhouse and run up the bill so he can pay for it with Michelle’s permission.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

1 minute ago, Dbeasy said:

 

Holy shit this is incredibly depressing. If true, they should cut bait today.

 

i got ridiculed out of town in the bijan thread but i think ultimately i'm just starting to feel sorry for these kids that they're putting their faith in someone who seems so wholly incapable of helping them become their best.

[KYHorn 17194]

10 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Our OL is still being shit on way too much around here. They were asked to block the same running play 35 times per game while our RB's alignment told the defense when it might be a run. Then they were asked to pass block for a QB with limited route progression ability while our RB's alignment guaranteed it was a pass play, not to mention as defenses figured out our limited route combinations and sat on routes.

They weren't world-beaters but they certainly weren't the main issue with the offense like we've been used to the last several seasons.

Has this been described in more detail elsewhere, or is it just something you noticed? 

[Thiefery 5017]

1 minute ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

i got ridiculed out of town in the bijan thread but i think ultimately i'm just starting to feel sorry for these kids that they're putting their faith in someone who seems so wholly incapable of helping them become their best.

well atleast they can look forward to maybe becoming beat makers like Christmas-Giles.. and SXSW is just a few short months away

[Thiefery 5017]

1 minute ago, KYHorn said:

Has this been described in more detail elsewhere, or is it just something you noticed? 

do you not frequent the football board?

[Huckleberry 33100]

2 minutes ago, KYHorn said:

Has this been described in more detail elsewhere, or is it just something you noticed? 

It's been discussed. When the RB aligned deeper than Ehlinger it was either a run play or an RPO. When he lined up even with Ehlinger it was a pass play. Percentages were absurd (although obviously nothing is 100%).

[RomaVicta 30024]

5 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

so take some college-educated guesses...what's your best guess as to what has transpired so far behind the scenes with these searches...genuinely curious to hear thoughts from folks that are above the fray.

I have no guesses. I honestly don't speculate on things I know so little about. I don't believe I'm above the fray. I'm not even sure that there is a fray. There is only running about and shouting and guessing, as you say. I drop in to browse and respond. I don't care about my predictions and guesses because my record is poor in such things. 

A man must know his limitations.

[RomaVicta 30024]

1 minute ago, Huckleberry said:

It's been discussed. When the RB aligned deeper than Ehlinger it was either a run play or an RPO. When he lined up even with Ehlinger it was a pass play. Percentages were absurd (although obviously nothing is 100%).

Ugh.

[Burt Macklin 19053]

2 hours ago, JBJ said:

You are so far off on this that it's comical: "Let's fire everyone working for you, now rehire from a field with few solid available candidates, and do better.  By the way, all the recruiting momentum you built over the past two classes, we are doing it in a manner to kill that also."

Optics indeed.  No wonder coaches would want to stay away from that.

WTF are you talking about here? Either Herman decided to fire those guys, or he’s such a shitty manager of people that he didn’t realize those guys had to go. Either way, it’s a total failure on Herman’s part, not the AD. 
 

Upgrading from Beck and Orlando the last two years is almost impossible not to do. I’m not Ash’s biggest fan, but he’s an obvious upgrade from Orlando. I think hiring Messingham should be a fireable offense in and of itself, yet he’s still an upgrade as an OC over Beck. 
 

The recruiting momentum you speak of has been dead for months and firing Orlando will actually lead to a net positive in defensive recruiting for 2020 and beyond.  If Herman would’ve hired an OC in the last three weeks, with many options available to upgrade over Beck, our recruiting on offense probably wouldn’t have suffered much and likely would have improved. Getting rid of Mehringer sure as hell will lead to less attrition of the guys currently on campus. 
 

1 hour ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

Assuming the hires are Ash and one of Messingham/Beatty - I think he knew exactly what he was doing. 

 

I mean he fucked us - but he knew he was doing it.

are you saying you think he’s gone with three weeks of Harrell subterfuge knowing Messingham was always the guy? I could buy that he fucked up the Harrell hire and is now going to fall back on a comfort hire, but the idea that Herman’s plan all along was Messingham seems far fetched even for this shit show. 

26 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

*I do not want Courtney Messingham as the Offensive Coordinator of this University*

 

 Those North Dakota State 'Power O' offenses were tough and the passing game was explosive as hell - its everything Tom Herman wants in his offense, and Courtney Messingham was at the controls of it for three seasons and 2 National Championships.   

If Sam had even a slightly better deep ball it would be the perfect offense for him.

 

*I do not want Courtney Messingham as the Offensive Coordinator of this University*

I get you don’t want him, but you’re still trying to polish a massive turd here. 

NDSU is a machine that seems to succeed no matter who’s coaching. I have a hard time giving him much credit for their offensive success. Also, I’m pretty sure they’ve actually improved on offense since he left. 
 

Also, KSU’s offense was middling this year and their entire OL was made up of 5th year seniors. His lone year without a massive talent advantage doesn’t bode well for future performance. 

20 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Our OL is still being shit on way too much around here. They were asked to block the same running play 35 times per game while our RB's alignment told the defense when it might be a run. Then they were asked to pass block for a QB with limited route progression ability while our RB's alignment guaranteed it was a pass play, not to mention as defenses figured out our limited route combinations and sat on routes.

They weren't world-beaters but they certainly weren't the main issue with the offense like we've been used to the last several seasons.

Yep. Hand isn’t perfect, but it’s not his fault that we look like shit running inside zone over and over into defenses that are designed to stop that exact running play. It’s also not Hand’s fault that we usually had at least two receivers who were total non factors on every pass play. When the game plan was good, like against LSU, our Oline looked pretty good. When the game plan was shit and opponents knew exactly what was coming, like against OU, ISU, TCU, and Baylor, our OL looked like shit. 

Edited December 17, 2019 by Burt Macklin

[kevwun 15924]

Good thing we had all those analysts on staff.  They did a bang up job self-scouting.  Or maybe their main responsibility was monitoring urine color.

Edited December 17, 2019 by kevwun

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

Just now, RomaVicta said:

I have no guesses. I honestly don't speculate on things I know so little about. I don't believe I'm above the fray. I'm not even sure that there is a fray. There is only running about and shouting and guessing, as you say. I drop in to browse and respond. I don't care about my predictions and guesses because my record is poor in such things. 

A man must know his limitations.

[ClubWhatever 12158]

18 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

He’s a total fucking meathead.

Neal Brown is a meathead's meathead.  He tried to kick a field goal on 4th and 2 from the 35 while down 3 to Baylor with 3 minutes left, with a white-faced kicker who had somewhere between 0 and 1 all-time college kicks.  He then proceeded to allow a delay of game, and thought the best course of action to maximize his chances of winning (on the road) would be to try a longer kick with that dude again.

[SydneyCarton 48194]

1 minute ago, RomaVicta said:

I have no guesses. I honestly don't speculate on things I know so little about. I don't believe I'm above the fray. I'm not even sure that there is a fray. There is only running about and shouting and guessing, as you say. I drop in to browse and respond. I don't care about my predictions and guesses because my record is poor in such things. 

A man must know his limitations.

Then why the fuck are you even posting on a message board, much less browsing these threads? 

[KYHorn 17194]

3 minutes ago, Thiefery said:

do you not frequent the football board?

Try not to.

[closetohumping 17474]

1 minute ago, ClubWhatever said:

Neal Brown is a meathead's meathead.  He tried to kick a field goal on 4th and 2 from the 35 while down 3 to Baylor with 3 minutes left, with a white-faced kicker who had somewhere between 0 and 1 all-time college kicks.  He then proceeded to allow a delay of game, and thought the best course of action to maximize his chances of winning (on the road) would be to try a longer kick with that dude again.

You mean he could’ve shut all the Matt ruhle and baylor shit up?

[closetojumping 62879]

5 minutes ago, ClubWhatever said:

Neal Brown is a meathead's meathead.  He tried to kick a field goal on 4th and 2 from the 35 while down 3 to Baylor with 3 minutes left, with a white-faced kicker who had somewhere between 0 and 1 all-time college kicks.  He then proceeded to allow a delay of game, and thought the best course of action to maximize his chances of winning (on the road) would be to try a longer kick with that dude again.

I have no clue whatsoever about Brown's mental capacity, and I don't think I really care. Does what you wrote invalidate what I wrote, in your opinion? I agree that he looked like an idiot a few times this year at WVU, fwiw. 

[Ricky Butler 2732]

13 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

i got ridiculed out of town in the bijan thread but i think ultimately i'm just starting to feel sorry for these kids that they're putting their faith in someone who seems so wholly incapable of helping them become their best.

Bijan is going to help all of us become our best.

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

10 minutes ago, kevwun said:

Good thing we had all those analysts on staff.  They did a bang up job self-scouting.  Or maybe their main responsibility was monitoring urine color.

Or perhaps no one listened to them. 

[LTtxfan 49361]

42 minutes ago, TheMailBox357 said:

I just entered this thread & I'm wondering why are people bring up David Beatty as OC candidate when he's never been an OC on the college level? He was the WR coach on Sumlin's A&M staff when KU hired him as Head Coach.

Beaty...

 Beaty was OC at Rice in 2010.  

Part of Bio:  

▪ 2006-07: Rice passing game coordinator/wide receivers coach

▪ 2008-09: Kansas wide receivers coach

▪ 2010: Rice offensive coordinator

▪ 2011: Kansas co-offensive coordinator/wide receivers coach

▪ 2012: Texas A&M wide receivers coach

▪ 2013-14: Texas A&M wide receivers coach/recruiting coordinator

[BurntOrange&White 40038]

This is so on the got damned point.

No you see it’s everyone else’s fault but Herman’s.

[Dbeasy 15093]

If Herman is such a detestable meathead, which by the way many thought was possible when he was hired, how in the hell does CDC extend him last year? Surely he had to have seen problems then.

[Hiphopopotamos 20889]

21 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

I get you don’t want him, but you’re still trying to polish a massive turd here. 

NDSU is a machine that seems to succeed no matter who’s coaching. I have a hard time giving him much credit for their offensive success. Also, I’m pretty sure they’ve actually improved on offense since he left. 
 

Also, KSU’s offense was middling this year and their entire OL was made up of 5th year seniors. His lone year without a massive talent advantage doesn’t bode well for future performance. 

 

I definitely wasn't trying to imply that Messingham had any hand in designing andd building the NDSU machine - only that he was allowed to sit at the controls of it for three years and a couple of titles.  The offensive execution and style (though not necessarily scheme) is exactly what Herman wants his Power/Pro/WTF spread offense to operate like.  I could see Herman using the NDSU success (and unexpected success at KSU) as a justification to hire Messingham.

 

Had to look it up - but NDSU's offense is averaging 4 points per game fewer this year than last and is averaging 7.3 yards per play  as opposed to last years 7.4

Edited December 17, 2019 by Hiphopopotamos

[closetohumping 17474]

1 minute ago, Dbeasy said:

If Herman is such a detestable meathead, which by the way many thought was possible when he was hired, how in the hell does CDC extend him last year? Surely he had to have seen problems then.

He looked like a winner.  We were trending up. All of our losses were close.   Most of us agreed with us 

[Izhmash 563]

40 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

This all reminds me of something I didn’t post in October because I got depressed from watching the games and decommitments. 

I have a good friend that played CFB with Neal Brown. They’ve remained buddies. Brown ends up hosting my friend and a couple of their other college friends for the next WVU home game after Texas. 

My buddy comes back from the trip, my wife and I and he and his wife go out for dinner. He tells several Holgerson legend stories from WVU that Brown inherited and then he starts talking about Tom Herman. Brown has now interacted with Herman during the Big 12 media stuff in the summer and the week of the UT/WVU game. Said two things about Herman stand out: 1) He’s completely destestable. Can’t figure out how this guy ever signs a recruit or got a HC gig, much less another one at Texas. He’s Shooter McGavin with a HC gig and 2) He’s a total fucking meathead. He’s like shockingly stupid and comes across as though he thinks he’s highly intelligent but has nothing behind that with anything he ever says. 

Anyway, both of those things mesh with what I’ve seen in limited exposure personally and everything we hear these days from the rumors and journalists. 

I initially want to hit the "hate" feedback button, because this shit has made me an emotional mess and it feels like the correct emotion that come from stories like this (and recognition of what we all see in TH's behaviors manifesting themselves into a clusterfucked reality).

That said, I don't mean that as a reflection on you...and I'm grateful for the contribution.  Have some "thanks".

[Minor Orangeblack 112]

Recruiting will not be a problem. Who wouldn’t want to go through a top notch college strength and conditioning program just to have Urban Meyer come in and  take over in 2021. That is serious recruiting pitch

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13119]

1 minute ago, closetohumping said:

Most of us agreed with us

True story.

[bigcigar 1165]

Why the fuck did we hire Herman?

[EZ$ 2105]

Just now, Dbeasy said:

If Herman is such a detestable meathead, which by the way many thought was possible when he was hired, how in the hell does CDC extend him last year? Surely he had to have seen problems then.

He won 10 games, beat OU at the cotton bowl, secured his 2nd top 5 recruiting class and comfortably beat the 2nd greatest SEC team that year.  Who cares how detestable he is, he had the program headed in the right direction (narrator: he didn’t). 

[MoJames 8255]

2 minutes ago, bigcigar said:

Why the fuck did we hire Herman?

You tell us BMD.