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DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt

By DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt
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USNALonghorn

USNALonghorn 5078

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20 hours ago, Kyrie Eleison said:

we could drop some 25% production and STILL be one of the top 3 teams in the land.  we've got a system in place, and we're sticking to it....and confidence in what we do.  what we did last year was paradigm shifting in terms of how offense is played at this level and if you don't believe me i'll let Aranda explain what it was like to experience it first hand and just how different it is to everything else out there...start at the 13:00 min. mark.

tyson GIF

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DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt

DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301

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1 hour ago, A’Dam Psycho said:

So why did we want Graham Harrell again?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.stack.com/amp/usc-fans-freaking-out-over-what-could-be-their-worst-recruiting-class-ever

we just fired an OC that was a rainmaker as a recruiter...because he fucking sucked as a coach.

does that answer your question?

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Istian

Istian 241

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Well that’s underwhelming but not unexpected. This process has been interesting - some hires look fine, others are head scratchers. Recruiting is probably one area where I’m least worried, but I would have expected a better recruiter for this last spot. 

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Hiphopopotamos

Hiphopopotamos 20869

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11 minutes ago, Istian said:

Well that’s underwhelming but not unexpected. This process has been interesting - some hires look fine, others are head scratchers. Recruiting is probably one area where I’m least worried, but I would have expected a better recruiter for this last spot. 

Clearly you never read his Bio on the aggy website:

Quote

Noted for his recruiting ability, Hagen was named one of the nation’s top recruiters twice by Rivals.com.

https://12thman.com/sports/football/roster/coaches/mark-hagen/411

 

When has an aggy ever exaggerated or embellished their credentials?

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bschoolprof

bschoolprof 6252

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44 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

 assuming chris ash isn't a functional retard, i can't imagine a scenario where this staff isn't an upgrade over the big bag of shit we've had his first 3 years. will it be enough to save his job?

I think so.  The Alamo bowl showed us what we could be with just a modicum of common sense on defense.  If Ash is just average, we likely win two more games, and I think Herm's job is safe.  I don't buy the "big 12 champions or else" theory with respect to Mensa's job security.  

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Istian

Istian 241

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Just now, Hank_Hill said:

Since when do Sumlins hiring/firing practices mean shit? (Yes this is an underwhelming hire, but meh)

I mean I understand why this is the sentiment, but in the context of Herman’s shitty hires, shitty staff management, stubbornness to make changes and the fact that he’s very much on the hot seat - it matters. This is a fucking ridiculous hire and there were plenty of options. 

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DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt

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3 minutes ago, ClubWhatever said:

Herman is friends with Sumlin.  It's reasonable to assume he called Sumlin to find out if the guy was any good.

"hey kevin, what do you think of hagen?"

"he's great, tom!"

"then why did you fire him, kevin?"

"i was drunk, tom."

"cheers to that, my man."

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BrazilHorn

BrazilHorn 6586

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5 minutes ago, kevwun said:

I'd rather not have a defensive coach who Kevin Sumlin had to to fire because of incompetence, but maybe that's just me.  It's like taking home a girl that Vic passed on.

to be fair, that could be a skinny chick that is still hot. We have all seen the girl's Vic goes for. Maybe the inverse of your quote would be better for this coaching hire

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DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt

DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301

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30 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

I think so.  The Alamo bowl showed us what we could be with just a modicum of common sense on defense.  If Ash is just average, we likely win two more games, and I think Herm's job is safe.  I don't buy the "big 12 champions or else" theory with respect to Mensa's job security.  

that zone between not good enough to win the conference and not shitty enough to realize he can't consistently win the conference seems like about the worst place we can be, so i'm operating under the assumption that's exactly where we'll find ourselves.

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Hank_Hill

Hank_Hill 18797

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1 minute ago, Istian said:

I mean I understand why this is the sentiment, but in the context of Herman’s shitty hires, shitty staff management, stubbornness to make changes and the fact that he’s very much on the hot seat - it matters. This is a fucking ridiculous hire and there were plenty of options. 

Which elite coach would join a possible 1 year staff as a co-DL coach?

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kevwun

kevwun 15769

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1 minute ago, Hank_Hill said:

Which elite coach would join a possible 1 year staff as a co-DL coach?

The one you give a nice raise to along with a 3 year guaranteed contract.  That wasn't the holdup here.  Herman being shitty at filling out the staff is the problem.

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Hank_Hill

Hank_Hill 18797

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3 minutes ago, Istian said:

Hagen < 90 other DL coaches <<<<<< elite DL coaches. That’s the problem. 

 

3 minutes ago, kevwun said:

The one you give a nice raise to along with a 3 year guaranteed contract.  That wasn't the holdup here.  Herman being shitty at filling out the staff is the problem.

Based on y'alls intimate knowledge into how this played out, I'm sure. I'm not saying it's a great hire, its average, but y'alls expectations for this particular hire in this particular year are skewed. Okam was our best option, and he had an offer nobody would refuse.

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Istian

Istian 241

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Just now, Hank_Hill said:

 

Based on y'alls intimate knowledge into how this played out, I'm sure. I'm not saying it's a great hire, its average, but y'alls expectations for this particular hire in this particular year are skewed.

I haven’t said anywhere that it had to be an “elite” coach - eg the dude from tOSU. A plus recruiter that also wasn’t fired from Sumlin’s staff and didn’t spend the last few years in the dredges of the Big10 isn’t too much to ask here. 

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closetojumping

closetojumping 62568

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1 hour ago, texifornia said:

and we can put this thing to bed

 

I'd like to put a bullet through "this thing's" forehead and then make the evidence go away by dumping it into a vat of acid.

3 minutes ago, Hank_Hill said:

Which elite coach would join a possible 1 year staff as a co-DL coach?

This is a false choice. No one is clamoring for an "elite" coach. That would be nice, sure, but no one is being ridiculous about it on this thread (lately). So how about just a decent DL coach? Can we haz that? No. We cannot. We received a coach that has a mediocre track record in all facets of his life and coaching career. 

I realize that you think you're in agreement with many of us in that you're not high in the hire. However, with the series of posts you've flashed here, what you're really indicating is that in some form, you, along with a rather large group of others that have shown their true voices via this long thread, really are still willing to give Tom Herman some measure of benefit of the doubt with his hiring practices. 

Now, when you do that, however flaccid your support really is for it, it causes the rest of us who've recognized Coach Fuckface for the full-on fraudtard that he is, especially when it comes to hiring, to react. This idiot showed up on campus at a blueblood and simply just hired his bros. He hired a bunch of dipshitted clowns and then he gave them money and power. He hired almost an entire staff of guys whose biggest prior roles were at UH, Rutgers, UConn or some other shithole. He also hired Tim Beck, who'd been fired at every OC role for his mediocrity that he'd ever worked. And Stan Drayton who actually seemed solid at the time. He hired Casey Horny. A rape-enabling victim shamer. And he told boosters and the fanbase to fuck off in doing so. We called this all out as problematic at the time and mocked it correctly from then until now.

Then, after a disastrous year 1 performance by the vast majority of the staff, facing a near revolt at the WR position, Herman called "Nuts" to the market and held his hand steady. He made only two changes - he hired a legitimate OL coach and then kept his boys on staff by simply reshuffling responsibilities at WR and TE instead of fixing obvious staff problems. 

Maybe you felt you had all of this straight, but when you equivocate for the Hermanataurus Sex, you align with him. And so then we need to respond to that in kind. (You're a generally fine poster, so really I'm mostly using the premise here to further lampoon Herman and call him names rather than finish some work on a Friday afternoon.)

2 minutes ago, texifornia said:

*quietly* IU people thought he did a good job and were sorry he left. 

I know football is just an appetizer for basketball for them, but maybe he's improved a bit?

I do not give one fuck what a bunch of hayseeds think about a football coach. They wouldn't know good football development and elite recruiting if Nick Saban gave them weekly clinics for a decade straight.

I was punished this season as a fan of the sport by having to watch Indiana on multiple occasions as part of the 11 and 2:30 slots, and then also as one of the last bowl games. They played one of the shittiest schedules possible. They beat a bunch of teams with losing records and choked against everyone else. They were buttfucked on defense in damn near each of those games. Herman showed up to a shitty program's quarter of a century apex of 8 wins and bought high on a guy that has had 25 years as a coach to prove out exactly who he is, which is a wet fart personified on the sidelines. 

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Hank_Hill

Hank_Hill 18797

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5 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

 

This is a false choice. No one is clamoring for an "elite" coach. That would be nice, sure, but no one is being ridiculous about it on this thread (lately). So how about just a decent DL coach? Can we haz that? No. We cannot. We received a coach that has a mediocre track record in all facets of his life and coaching career. 

I realize that you think you're in agreement with many of us in that you're not high in the hire. However, with the series of posts you've flashed here, what you're really indicating is that in some form, you, along with a rather large group of others that have shown their true voices via this long thread, really are still willing to give Tom Herman some measure of benefit of the doubt with his hiring practices. 

Now, when you do that, however flaccid your support really is for it, it causes the rest of us who've recognized Coach Fuckface for the full-on fraudtard that he is, especially when it comes to hiring, to react. This idiot showed up on campus at a blueblood and simply just hired his bros. He hired a bunch of dipshitted clowns and then he gave them money and power. He hired almost an entire staff of guys whose biggest prior roles were at UH, Rutgers, UConn or some other shithole. He also hired Tim Beck, who'd been fired at every OC role for his mediocrity that he'd ever worked. And Stan Drayton who actually seemed solid at the time. He hired Casey Horny. A rape-enabling victim shamer. And he told boosters and the fanbase to fuck off in doing so. We called this all out as problematic at the time and mocked it correctly from then until now.

Then, after a disastrous year 1 performance by the vast majority of the staff, facing a near revolt at the WR position, Herman called "Nuts" to the market and held his hand steady. He made only two changes - he hired a legitimate OL coach and then kept his boys on staff by simply reshuffling responsibilities at WR and TE instead of fixing obvious staff problems. 

Maybe you felt you had all of this straight, but when you equivocate for the Hermanataurus Sex, you align with him. And so then we need to respond to that in kind. (You're a generally fine poster, so really I'm mostly using the premise here to further lampoon Herman and call him names rather than finish some work on a Friday afternoon.)

 

Eh, I see the errors and pitfalls that are many of Hermans decisions and don't see him remaining here longer than 3 more years (probably generous). I just think our options were genuinely limited after our top targets took genuinely better career options. While this hire is not great, the "go fuck yourself Herman" response that I initially responded to was silly. This is a second DL coach and peoples current hatred of Herman causes them to overanalyze everything. Overall this staff parallels his 2020 recruiting class in that it plugged some major holes while possibly opening up some minor ones. The DT coach wasn't going to make or break this staff. 

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Kyrie Eleison

Kyrie Eleison 9312

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4 hours ago, A’Dam Psycho said:

This train of thought is exactly why O will be on the hot seat in 4 years

Orgeron is 11-3 against Top 10 opponents since he's been at LSU, with all 3 losses coming against the Gumps in 2016-2018. everyone else we've beat.  additionally, 17 of his 39 wins while at LSU have come against Top 25 teams.  

so tell me more about this hot seat?

and while you're at it, tell me about your guy against Top 10/25 opponents?

 

 

 

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Istian

Istian 241

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16 minutes ago, Hank_Hill said:

Eh, I see the errors and pitfalls that are many of Hermans decisions and don't see him remaining here longer than 3 more years (probably generous). I just think our options were genuinely limited after our top targets took genuinely better career options. While this hire is not great, the "go fuck yourself Herman" response that I initially responded to was silly. This is a second DL coach and peoples current hatred of Herman causes them to overanalyze everything. Overall this staff parallels his 2020 recruiting class in that it plugged some major holes while possibly opening up some minor ones. The DT coach wasn't going to make or break this staff. 

I see where the confusion is. My dislike for the hire is based on Herman’s (probably) lack of desire to conduct a thorough search. He doesn’t deserve any kind of benefit of the doubt with regard to his hiring choices or process. My irritation is derived solely from his behavior and recent track record of hiring. Will this hire turn out to be okay? Maybe, but it’s far more likely that we look back on this hire as yet another misstep in Herman’s short-lived tenure as the head coach at Texas.
 

Really though, I’d prefer for Hagen to be recruiter of the year and Texas to hit the playoff in 2020 - which is possible considering the talent on hand. I’m happy to shut up and stop whining if the trend changes, but the current data suggests that it won’t. To ignore all that would be purposefully shoving your head in the sand while screaming “trust the coaches!”

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Istian

Istian 241

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1 minute ago, Kyrie Eleison said:

Orgeron is 11-3 against Top 10 opponents since he's been at LSU, with all 3 losses coming against the Gumps in 2016-2018. everyone else we've beat.  additionally, 17 of his 39 wins while at LSU have come against Top 25 teams.  

so tell me more about this hot seat?

and while you're at it, tell me about your guy against Top 10/25 opponents?

 

 

 

Sounds a lot like Mack Brown. We saw how that worked out. Will O continue to do well? Probably, his access to talent in conjunction with recent success gives him a big advantage. To act like things such as returning production, the loss of a Heisman winner, and the loss of the architect of LSU’s recent offensive and defensive successes are indicators that LSU will “reload” is poor thought process. 

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Hank_Hill

Hank_Hill 18797

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3 minutes ago, Istian said:

I see where the confusion is. My dislike for the hire is based on Herman’s (probably) lack of desire to conduct a thorough search. He doesn’t deserve any kind of benefit of the doubt with regard to his hiring choices or process. My irritation is derived solely from his behavior and recent track record of hiring. Will this hire turn out to be okay? Maybe, but it’s far more likely that we look back on this hire as yet another misstep in Herman’s short-lived tenure as the head coach at Texas.

This is fair. I guess I just view this staff overall as probably the best in the last 5 years and this hire doesn't really change that view for me one way or the other so the reactions seem extreme to me based on that. 

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Fondren & Main

Fondren & Main 6703

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35 minutes ago, Kyrie Eleison said:

Orgeron is 11-3 against Top 10 opponents since he's been at LSU, with all 3 losses coming against the Gumps in 2016-2018. everyone else we've beat.  additionally, 17 of his 39 wins while at LSU have come against Top 25 teams.  

so tell me more about this hot seat?

and while you're at it, tell me about your guy against Top 10/25 opponents?

 

 

 

Herman’s been pretty good against ranked teams.  It’s against the shitbags of the world that he has trouble.  I guess he’s 8-9.  Not great, but we do typically play best against upper echelon squads.

Edited by Fondren & Main
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Tex Pete

Tex Pete 20339

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1 hour ago, Istian said:

Yeah excuse me for being a fan of the school and giving a shit lol 

Right. None of the rest of us give a shit. lol

43 minutes ago, Istian said:

I see where the confusion is. My dislike for the hire is based on Herman’s (probably) lack of desire to conduct a thorough search.

I have no idea what kind of search process Herman went through, but judging by how long it took to announce the hire, I doubt Herman called Hagen in December and offered the job. I certainly could be wrong.

What I am sure of is that this hire isn't the one that will make or break the 2020 season or Tom Herman's tenure at Texas. I also don't think anyone is satisfied with Herman's first three seasons. There are lots of things that could have been done much better. We have to contend for the conference title this season, and just contending won't be satisfying.

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Hank_Hill

Hank_Hill 18797

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19 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

Right. None of the rest of us give a shit. lol

I have no idea what kind of search process Herman went through, but judging by how long it took to announce the hire, I doubt Herman called Hagen in December and offered the job. I certainly could be wrong.

What I am sure of is that this hire isn't the one that will make or break the 2020 season or Tom Herman's tenure at Texas. I also don't think anyone is satisfied with Herman's first three seasons. There are lots of things that could have been done much better. We have to contend for the conference title this season, and just contending won't be satisfying.

Exactly. One can criticize Tom Hermans past decisions while simultaneously not allowing those to cloud judgement and thinking every decision he makes is because of incompetence. That would be like me seeing malingering on CTJs chart because he came in to my office one time seeking Xanax to snort off Sydney Cartons ass hole and allowing that to completely cloud the clearly sociopathic diagnosis sitting right in front of me.

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Walden Ponderer

Walden Ponderer 12639

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15 minutes ago, Hank_Hill said:

Exactly. One can criticize Tom Hermans past decisions while simultaneously not allowing those to cloud judgement and thinking every decision he makes is because of incompetence. That would be like me seeing malingering on CTJs chart because he came in to my office one time seeking Xanax to snort off Sydney Cartons ass hole and allowing that to completely cloud the clearly sociopathic diagnosis sitting right in front of me.

giphy.gif

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Istian

Istian 241

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37 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

Right. None of the rest of us give a shit. lol

I have no idea what kind of search process Herman went through, but judging by how long it took to announce the hire, I doubt Herman called Hagen in December and offered the job. I certainly could be wrong.

What I am sure of is that this hire isn't the one that will make or break the 2020 season or Tom Herman's tenure at Texas. I also don't think anyone is satisfied with Herman's first three seasons. There are lots of things that could have been done much better. We have to contend for the conference title this season, and just contending won't be satisfying.

I agree with you. I don’t think this ONE hire changes much in terms of what happens in 2020. As the last (currently, at least) seemingly poor decision in a long line of poor decisions for Herman at Texas, it’s worth discussing. Using previous hires and results as evidence to back my claim that this hire might not be so great is relevant to me, but I’m probably just an asshole. 
 

On some level I think we’re saying the same thing here, but for different reasons. I get that negativity isn’t fun and it’s been fleshed out plenty in this thread. I do believe that this staff is much better than his initial staff. At this point it’s just time to win. 

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DanTheHorn

DanTheHorn 4919

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1 hour ago, Fondren & Main said:

Herman’s been pretty good against ranked teams.  It’s against the shitbags of the world that he has trouble.  I guess he’s 8-9.  Not great, but we do typically play best against upper echelon squads.

Herman has lost to ranked teams and shitbags alike since he has been here at Texas.

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