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DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt

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UncleBuck

UncleBuck 6455

Posted
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Excellent example of exasperated hand throwing. Thank you. 

I never indicate a preference for Davis to be anything, so no I don't "want this guy showing up and advising again..."

My point, which you illustrate very eloquently, was about the hysteria about any new development. I don't know the quality of Davis' advice. I don't know the gravity of his impact with Herman. I don't know of one thing he has advised for or against. I'm only just now aware that he was around for the OU game. I don't know what he did there.

Not knowing, I don't default to "OMG! Since other things are shitty this is shitty! OMG! Someone questions that! He must be shitty, too!"

Things are indeed shitty right now. Herman is ultimately responsible. I think coaching changes were called for. Herman may deserve firing next year. See, I'm aboard. But I don't get reading tea leaves to feed a melt-down jones. I don't get laying out a firm position in advance of facts (Davis advising! Herman is an insufferable human being! Herman hiring an acquaintance will end our world!"), so I make a joke of it.

You see, I come here primarily for entertainment. I also enjoy reading the opinions of people who know more than I do or are witty. Many of the hand wringers fit that description. They're also hand wringers. 

Perhaps it is far far better thing they do than anything I have ever done.

I think the first mistake you make is trying to have a serious discussion on this message board. 

 

I get the worry about Greg Davis, but at the same time, the benefit here is leaning on a guy who has been coaching for over 40 years. It's less about WHAT he knows, and more about WHO he knows.  The tree of people he knows is gunna be a lot bigger than Herman's. Also, maybe he doesn't put people off as much as Herman does, and can kinda lead horses to the water or whatever the fuck I'm trying to say that's just going to be met with "oh great Greg Davis is going to introduce Tom Herman to our next 70 year old offensive coordinator"

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by UncleBuck
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SydneyCarton

SydneyCarton 49425

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, RomaVicta said:

Excellent example of exasperated hand throwing. Thank you. 

I never indicate a preference for Davis to be anything, so no I don't "want this guy showing up and advising again..."

My point, which you illustrate very eloquently, was about the hysteria about any new development. I don't know the quality of Davis' advice. I don't know the gravity of his impact with Herman. I don't know of one thing he has advised for or against. I'm only just now aware that he was around for the OU game. I don't know what he did there.

Not knowing, I don't default to "OMG! Since other things are shitty this is shitty! OMG! Someone questions that! He must be shitty, too!"

Things are indeed shitty right now. Herman is ultimately responsible. I think coaching changes were called for. Herman may deserve firing next year. See, I'm aboard. But I don't get reading tea leaves to feed a melt-down jones. I don't get laying out a firm position in advance of facts (Davis advising! Herman is an insufferable human being! Herman hiring an acquaintance will end our world!"), so I make a joke of it.

You see, I come here primarily for entertainment. I also enjoy reading the opinions of people who know more than I do or are witty. Many of the hand wringers fit that description. They're also hand wringers. 

Perhaps it is far far better thing they do than anything I have ever done.

What a fucking misleading piece of distraction. You can claim to laugh at what you deem as excessive or hysterical responses of some people, but when you show up and tell people who are pretty informed on the topic that they're blowing things out or proportion, congratulations, you're basically advocating that what is transpiring is no big deal. Don't be act all surprised when people immediately spit the bit on that piece of shit. Let me give you a wildly exaggerated example:

"Listen, guys, you don't know Jerry Sandusky gives bad advice about defensive hires. It's not like we're asking him on shower tips."

The fact of the matter is, there are people with demonstrated and well documented poor insight into many things, and Greg Davis is one. Be it how to run an offense, which we witnessed for years. As well as hiring and program running suggestions for Herman at Houston and here as well, which we've seen play out here in the form of his first staff, as well as in game-planning for this years Oklahoma game. This is a man who hasn't really run a successful ANYTHING (other than stealing money), so sitting here and playing the "Oh, we don't know what input is being asked" is pretty irrelevant. Davis hasn't succeeded as a head coach, he is a middling to horrific offensive coordinator, he's never had to hire a full football staff, etc. So what fucking advice should we want from him? Incidentally, he has advised Herman every step of the way here and it's been an abject failure that's brought us Casey Horny, Drew Mehringer, Derek Wareheim, etc. And guess what, he's part of Herman's echo chamber, which is a legitimate and documented problem for how we got here. So why would you even tacitly defend this guy's input, even if just by saying "You guys are over-reacting?" Shit, Tom should just ask Drew Mehringer out the door who should replace him at WR coach. We don't know what kind of advice Drew might give, it could be outstanding advice even though he can't seem to make a right decision for himself. Maybe you think he should give hair tips?

1 minute ago, RomaVicta said:

Perhaps it is far far better thing they do than anything I have ever done.

 

Well, you know I'm going to agree with you there, obviously. 

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dingleberryswitzer

dingleberryswitzer 2724

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

"Ok, Tom, on this WR screen here, your receivers are blocking the DBS right in front of them.  You want them to whiff that block then try to block the deep safety 30 yards down the field. "

"Won't that end up with a tackle for a loss?"

"Tom.. Tommy, my boy...  yes but , only if your wr doesn't break a 1 on 1 open field tackle.  If he does break that tackle though.... Ooh boy your looking at at least a 10 yard gain. And if that fail on first down, let me tell you, and this is my secret sauce here, you throw the screen to the OTHER side.  What are the odds a defense has more than one  DB that can make an open field tackle?

I should add the remainder of that conversation:

Tom: "ok Greg sounds good, I'm gonna draw this up with Collin Johnson and Epps, as the blockers, two big boys, and we'll have devernay catch the screen, he's our fastest player."

Greg: "tom... It's like you never listen.  You want to put two fast and quick guys out there as blockers or they'll never reach that safety at the far end of the field.  Let Epps catch the screen, you want a big guy with the ball to break the one on one tackle. Look let me queue up this play where I have dj Monroe and Marquis blocking for limas sweed...."

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 30512

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

What a fucking misleading piece of distraction. You can claim to laugh at what you deem as excessive or hysterical responses of some people, but when you show up and tell people who are pretty informed on the topic that they're blowing things out or proportion, congratulations, you're basically advocating that what is transpiring is no big deal. Don't be act all surprised when people immediately spit the bit on that piece of shit. Let me give you a wildly exaggerated example:

"Listen, guys, you don't know Jerry Sandusky gives bad advice about defensive hires. It's not like we're asking him on shower tips."

The fact of the matter is, there are people with demonstrated and well documented poor insight into many things, and Greg Davis is one. Be it how to run an offense, which we witnessed for years. As well as hiring and program running suggestions for Herman at Houston and here as well, which we've seen play out here in the form of his first staff, as well as in game-planning for this years Oklahoma game. This is a man who hasn't really run a successful ANYTHING (other than stealing money), so sitting here and playing the "Oh, we don't know what input is being asked" is pretty irrelevant. Davis hasn't succeeded as a head coach, he is a middling to horrific offensive coordinator, he's never had to hire a full football staff, etc. So what fucking advice should we want from him? Incidentally, he has advised Herman every step of the way here and it's been an abject failure that's brought us Casey Horny, Drew Mehringer, Derek Wareheim, etc. And guess what, he's part of Herman's echo chamber, which is a legitimate and documented problem for how we got here. So why would you even tacitly defend this guy's input, even if just by saying "You guys are over-reacting?" Shit, Tom should just ask Drew Mehringer out the door who should replace him at WR coach. We don't know what kind of advice Drew might give, it could be outstanding advice even though he can't seem to make a right decision for himself. Maybe you think he should give hair tips?

 

Well, you know I'm going to agree with you there, obviously. 

4 minutes ago, UncleBuck said:

I think the first mistake you make is trying to have a serious discussion on this message board. 

 

Also, TL;DR. And I love Dickens!

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SydneyCarton

SydneyCarton 49425

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, UncleBuck said:

I think the first mistake you make is trying to have a serious discussion on this message board. 

 

I get the worry about Greg Davis, but at the same time, the benefit here is leaning on a guy who has been coaching for over 40 years. It's less about WHAT he knows, and more about WHO he knows.  The tree of people he knows is gunna be a lot bigger than Herman's. Also, maybe he doesn't put people off as much as Herman does, and can kinda lead horses to the water or whatever the fuck I'm trying to say. 

 

 

 

 

 

Lots of people have fun and productive conversations on Message Boards. It's just never with you included. 

You want to know who Greg Davis knows? His vast coaching tree and network? You mean all the outstanding guys he's hired on his various staffs? But just because he fucking knows a lot of people, his input has value? Shawn Watson has been around forever. He knows a lot of people. Lets ask him his opinion. Shit, my local dry cleaner is a wonderful Vietnamese lady, everyone chats with her all the fucking time. Lets get her fucking input. 

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 30512

Posted
Posted
Just now, SydneyCarton said:

Lots of people have fun and productive conversations on Message Boards. It's just never with you included. 

Now you're just making me sad.

Or should I rejoice that I may now be in one of surly's petty feuds that bore the shit out of everybody?

Nevertheless, thanks for explaining the ins and outs of Message Boards for me. 

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UncleBuck

UncleBuck 6455

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Lots of people have fun and productive conversations on Message Boards. It's just never with you included. 

You want to know who Greg Davis knows? His vast coaching tree and network? You mean all the outstanding guys he's hired on his various staffs? But just because he fucking knows a lot of people, his input has value? Shawn Watson has been around forever. He knows a lot of people. Lets ask him his opinion. Shit, my local dry cleaner is a wonderful Vietnamese lady, everyone chats with her all the fucking time. Lets get her fucking input. 

I maybe got four words in before remembering which windbag typed it up and just hit the quote button. Message boarding is funner that way. 

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 34412

Posted
Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

(H)e's never had to hire a full football staff, etc.

Well sure I guess he didn't have to hire a full staff at Tulane if some guys hung around after Brown left. I don't have any idea how that went down in 1988.

But what we do know is that Greg Davis had an absolutely terrible tenure as a head coach. Davis was their head coach from 1988-1991.

1987: 6-6, #47
1988: 4-6, #70
1989: 4-8, #68
1990: 4-7, #71
1991: 1-10, #98
1992: 2-9, #96

Here we see a progression that shows that Greg Davis couldn't coach (Brown's roster immediately took a nosedive from a decentish squad down to #70 or so out of 105 teams) and couldn't recruit (as soon as all of Brown's recruits were gone they plummeted to 1-10 and Davis was fired; the new coach couldn't make it work with Davis's roster either). Exactly what he's supposed to help with when it comes to filling out a staff or running a football program is our concern, dude.

And yes I know you specifically agree with all of this.

Edited by Huckleberry
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UncleBuck

UncleBuck 6455

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Well sure I guess he didn't have to hire a full staff at Tulane if some guys hung around after Brown left. I don't have any idea how that went down in 1988.

But what we do know is that Greg Davis had an absolutely terrible tenure as a head coach. Davis was their head coach from 1988-1991.

1987: 6-6, #47
1988: 4-6, #70
1989: 4-8, #68
1990: 4-7, #71
1991: 1-10, #98
1992: 2-9, #96

Here we see a progression that shows that Greg Davis couldn't coach (Brown's roster immediately took a nosedive from a decentish squad down to #70 or so out of 105 teams) and couldn't recruit (as soon as all of Brown's recruits were gone they plummeted to 1-10 and Davis was fired; the new coach couldn't make it work with Davis's roster either). Exactly what he's supposed to help with when it comes to filling out a staff or running a football program is our concern, dude.

And yes I know you specifically agree with all of this.

Christ he was bad

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Hiphopopotamos

Hiphopopotamos 21158

Posted
Posted

From the Recruiting Board:

Nahlin:

Everything I gather on the potential of Graham Harrell becoming UT's OC points to yesterday's meeting with Tom Herman being the key moment in the pursuit.

Yesterday I outlined the concessions he'd be looking for -- autonomy, being able to hire his guys, etc. He'd also be looking to get the right "feel" for Herman. There are some baseless rumors out there of Harrell having issues with Herman. Herman may not have the reputation of being the easiest guy to work for, but there's no in-person experience for Harrell to have an issue with Herman that we're aware of. Compared to good-guy Clay Helton, is Herman "hard" to work for? Maybe so but enough to keep Harrell from making the move? Doubtful.

I wish I'd heard of a handshake agreement to punctuate the meeting but I didn't. I heard the visit went well for both sides. If it went really, really well, then it was likely enough to tip the scales in UT's favor. Everything rides on Harrell's feeling for the situation post-meeting. For all I know he could mull this over for a day or two. I doubt UT is going to press him for an answer, though for recruiting purposes the sooner the better. The pursuit of Harrell is a good data point that Herman is committed to righting the ship at all costs, even if he has to cast aside his dogmatic beliefs in 11 personnel. The other positive data point was Herman being the driving force behind removing his good friend Todd Orlando.

Where Texas goes at defensive coordinator will be interesting to watch unfold. I think it has a ways to go. Most of our competition has penciled in Chris Ash for the job. That's understandable as it's widely assumed by some in Moncrief and in coaching gossip circles that Ash basically has the job already. I'm not so sure Ash being named is imminent. I've heard Ash is the floor of the search, not the ceiling. They have yet to truly explore the ceiling. We've heard they want to outfit Herman with coordinators the quality of LSU and they'll spend to do so. That would mean new names would emerge, or perhaps an old one like Morgan Scalley. It would mean they had a real process and so far it doesn't sound like they have.

Ash makes for a fine floor, akin to taking a low four-star early in the process to get the ball rolling, but is he the best option overall? I find it hard to believe they'll shoot for the moon on Harrell and then settle for the guy they know on defense who they can easily get. Signing Ash now would be akin to giving Herman an extension after the Sugar Bowl. Don't make that same mistake again. The Football Brainiacs posted there will be a DC interviewed today in Austin. I have yet to confirm that, but if true, I find the timing interesting. It almost assuredly wouldn't be a coach who has a game this weekend, and at least one, maybe two guys they like, do have big games this weekend.

Barry Odom was mentioned as a person of interest earlier in the week but he's set to take the Virginia Tech job, a job that Ash's name was also linked to. I've mentioned hearing they had interest in Jay Bateman dating back to when he was at Army but I have not heard that recently. That wouldn't really be the big name they're looking for. I have questions over his tactics, too. One name that would be interesting is Kevin Steele from Auburn. He operates a four-down, press quarters defense that perfectly suits the on-hand personnel. When he schemed LSU he showed he was adaptable to the Big 12. I wonder what he'd come up with if given a full off-season.

I'll be on the move a lot today but will post anything relevant that comes our way.

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Hiphopopotamos

Hiphopopotamos 21158

Posted
Posted (edited)

Steele is already making over 2 million a year as the DC at Auburn - we'd likely have to make him the highest paid (Aranda is #1 at 2.5 million a year) or close to it to get him to pack up and move to Austin.

Steele has worked under Tom Osborne, Bobby Bowden, Nick Saban, and Dabo Sweeney - thats a hell of a coaching Masterclass.

Edited by Hiphopopotamos
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Pig Bellmont

Pig Bellmont 8880

Posted
Posted
Just now, Hiphopopotamos said:

Steele is already making over 2 million a year as the DC at Auburn - we'd likely have to make him the highest paid (Aranda is #1 at 2.5 million a year) or close to it to get him to pack up and move to Austin.

 

I’ve been told Herman has a blank check. But that same source also said Harrell was in Belmont yesterday 

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Pig Bellmont

Pig Bellmont 8880

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

"Ok, Tom, on this WR screen here, your receivers are blocking the DBS right in front of them.  You want them to whiff that block then try to block the deep safety 30 yards down the field. "

"Won't that end up with a tackle for a loss?"

"Tom.. Tommy, my boy...  yes but , only if your wr doesn't break a 1 on 1 open field tackle.  If he does break that tackle though.... Ooh boy your looking at at least a 10 yard gain. And if that fail on first down, let me tell you, and this is my secret sauce here, you throw the screen to the OTHER side.  What are the odds a defense has more than one  DB that can make an open field tackle?

Triggered 

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touchthemonolith

touchthemonolith 654

Posted
Posted

I'm getting 2015 Sonny Cumbie vibes from Graham Harrell. Maybe he's just not that into us.

Assuming he doesn't become an HC, his options are to: (a) stay to work for a head coach that's probably getting fired next year; or (b) leave to work for a head coach that's probably getting fired next year. Both schools are willing and able to money whip him. The only differences are that Herman sucks to work for, and that option A is a known quantity for him--he's already done it successfully for a season. 

I feel like, as with all things Texas football related, this is going to end in disappointment.

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General Specific

General Specific 3496

Posted
Posted
um, this is the guy he says is his "mentor."  This is the guy he was a GA for.  GDGD is not out of his comfort zone. 
This is also the guy who consulted the week before the OU game and our offense looked like the shitty offenses he called against OU.  

Do we still have the banner? Do we need to fly it again? I had confuse, is GDGD our standard or not? That is the question indeed.
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MoJames

MoJames 8258

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, touchthemonolith said:

I'm getting 2015 Sonny Cumbie vibes from Graham Harrell. Maybe he's just not that into us.

Assuming he doesn't become an HC, his options are to: (a) stay to work for a head coach that's probably getting fired next year; or (b) leave to work for a head coach that's probably getting fired next year. Both schools are willing and able to money whip him. The only differences are that Herman sucks to work for, and that option A is a known quantity for him--he's already done it successfully for a season. 

I feel like, as with all things Texas football related, this is going to end in disappointment.

Just like your two posts from this sock.

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Hiphopopotamos

Hiphopopotamos 21158

Posted
Posted
Just now, clownin72 said:

Sure as fuck hope the deciding factor isn't with Harrell wanting to be qb coach too and Herman holding on to Beck as qb coach. If so pack Herman's shit up with Becks and kick rocks

Beck was 'demoted' because no one was going to interview for the OC job - while Texas still had an OC. 

Beck wasn't fired for a few reasons:

     1.  He is one of their best recruiters

     2.  Someone needs to coach the bowl game and with Mehringer gone and Meekins moved off-field they were already down offensive coaches

     3.  There is no one on staff ready to take over as QB coach.  Herman could do it if he weren't already the Head Coach, Offensive Coordinator, and play-caller.

 

I fully expect that Beck will not be retained and will leave when his contract is up in Feb (or shortly after the bowl game if they have another hire already lined up).

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Bill Lumbergh

Bill Lumbergh 7337

Posted
Posted

Here's how I like to think the talk with Tom and Greg goes:

Tom: I've got one year to turn this thing around and I need the best name you've got.

Greg: Vince. Vince Young is your guy.

Tom: Vince? As oc?

Greg: No, no, as qb. You see, OC is really overrated. All they do is call plays. If the players run those called plays, bad stuff happens. If the players ignore the called plays and do their own thing, good stuff happens. Vince does his own thing, and then you win a national championship. If you really want to win, you need to go see if he's available to be your quarterback. It worked for me.

Tom: ...

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 34412

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Goodman said:

Harrell should not get autonomy to pick his staff, he should have a say but no fucking way you let him select every coach on offense. 

Right because Tom Herman did a bang up job of that and now he's getting advice from Greg Davis. So obviously Herman should still be the decision maker on that kind of thing.

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touchthemonolith

touchthemonolith 654

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Bill Lumbergh said:

Here's how I like to think the talk with Tom and Greg goes:

Tom: I've got one year to turn this thing around and I need the best name you've got.

Greg: Vince. Vince Young is your guy.

Tom: Vince? As oc?

Greg: No, no, as qb. You see, OC is really overrated. All they do is call plays. If the players run those called plays, bad stuff happens. If the players ignore the called plays and do their own thing, good stuff happens. Vince does his own thing, and then you win a national championship. If you really want to win, you need to go see if he's available to be your quarterback. It worked for me.

Tom: ...

I'm down to bring VY back as our QB assuming he can show up sober like, what, 45% of the time?

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Hiphopopotamos

Hiphopopotamos 21158

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Right because Tom Herman did a bang up job of that and now he's getting advice from Greg Davis. So obviously Herman should still be the decision maker on that kind of thing.

I'm wondering who Harrell has in his binder of coaches.  He only really has two years of P5 coaching experience - so he doesn't have a huge pool of people he's worked with - but i assume he'd rely on Leach/Kliff/Litrell for recs.

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