Jump to content

MNF: Lions @ Packers

spystud13

By spystud13
in Football

 Share

Recommended Posts

UpperWestside

UpperWestside 6,136

Posted
Posted
Just now, GabrielsHorn said:

These refs are out of control. We need to actually have some punishment for them as it’s getting to the point that it is ruining the games. 

My friend has the game on and I see why I don't watch the NFL. Trey Flowers got screwed big time. You have to suspend that official for those two atrociously awful calls for at least 4 games that just handed Green Bay the game. Never had a single call against him in his career before tonight. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Junior Miller

Junior Miller 1,502

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Zavala said:

1571109736846-sp.gif

Only idoits and gamblers watch this trash. So predictable.

You think it doesn't happen in college football? Did you not watch last year's big 12 title game that was just as atrocious? 

Honestly, something like the black Sox scandal can't happen now because the players at the pro level who can affect a game to this level are too highly paid. The weakness though is the refs who aren't even full time employees. They don't make anywhere near the money to make them not consider a massive payday to fix a game. The more we see stuff like this happen the more likely it is true. 

I mean we have a nation full of extremely corrupt politicians with a criminal president but it's preposterous to assume football refs are criminals?

Edited by Junior Miller
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54,015

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

You think it doesn't happen in college football? Did you not watch last year's big 12 title game that was just as atrocious? 

Honestly, something like the black Sox scandal can't happen now because the players at the pro level who can affect a game to this level are too highly paid. The weakness though is the refs who aren't even full time employees. They don't make anywhere near the money to make them not consider a massive payday to fix a game. The more we see stuff like this happen the more likely it is true. 

I mean we have a nation full of extremely corrupt politicians with a criminal president but it's preposterous to assume football refs are criminals?

I absolutely believe that the best thing to ever happen to the NBA was the Tim Donaghy scandal, because that forced the NBA to clean out all of their old refs (Dick Bavetta, Bennett Salvatore, etc) who regularly "manipulated" games for whatever reasons.  And NBA officiating is about 1000% better than in was 10-15 years ago.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
NowThis

NowThis 931

Posted
Posted

on both hand-face penalties, the ref was directly behind Flowers. The vision was very obstructed, all he saw was Bakhtiari's head snap back, but didn't exactly see the position of Flowers' hand. Since the hand was 2-3 inches from the chin, the ref presumed hand to the face given the dramatic head snap. Bad angle fooled the ref basically, both times.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
tokamak

tokamak 6,353

Posted
Posted
55 minutes ago, NowThis said:

on both hand-face penalties, the ref was directly behind Flowers. The vision was very obstructed, all he saw was Bakhtiari's head snap back, but didn't exactly see the position of Flowers' hand. Since the hand was 2-3 inches from the chin, the ref presumed hand to the face given the dramatic head snap. Bad angle fooled the ref basically, both times.

I don't know what specific instructions the NFL gives refs, but it seems like they shouldn't be able to make a call if they don't actually see the infraction. In other words, they shouldn't assume that they know what happened unless they saw it with their eyes.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
satyanash

satyanash 14,281

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Pam Cummings said:

Didn't watch but not surprised. The NFL loves making bullshit calls for the Packers. You aren't allowed to even breathe on Rodgers anymore.

This honestly isn't even debatable. The Packers receive more referee favouritism than any other team in the NFL, and have done so for years, going back to the Favre days. Multiple times, the refs have stolen wins from other teams so the Packers could get a crucial boost in the playoffs race.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
spystud13

spystud13 2,371

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Quote

It’s been overlooked in the slew of criticism the officials have received for other blown calls, but a key penalty that was called on the Lions early in Monday night’s game was later not called on the Packers.

With the Lions leading 13-0 in the second quarter, the Packers faced fourth-and-5 and sent their field goal team on the field. The Lions, however, had 12 players on the field as the Packers lined up, and the officials immediately blew the whistle, giving the Packers five yards and a first down.

That was the right call: Under NFL rules, lining up with more than 11 players in the defensive formation is a penalty. The officials are supposed to shut down the play before the snap, and that’s what they did. It turned out to be incredibly costly for the Lions, as the Packers scored a touchdown two plays later.

But on the very next possession, the Packers committed the exact same penalty. Only it should have been even more obvious to the officials, because the Packers, in their confusion to make a defensive substitution while the Lions were in no-huddle, actually lined up 13 players on defense. Instead of shutting the play down and giving the Lions five yards, the officials allowed the Packers to call timeout to get the right personnel on the field.

That turned out to be incredibly costly for the Lions as well: Matthew Stafford was sacked after the Packers got the right personnel on the field following the timeout, and the Lions had to punt.

The officiating on Monday night was inexcusable, and most of the mistakes went against the Lions. When a lot of officiating mistakes go against you and you lose by one point, it’s hard to come to any conclusion other than that you got robbed.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
4th&Five

4th&Five 41,461

Posted
Posted

officials changed the super bowl match up last year and the nfl didn't clean house so this will lead to nothing.

i'll never understand why a bunch of part time employees, mostly over retirement age, are given so much responsibility over a multi billion dollar industry.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
txhorns

txhorns 2,408

Posted
Posted

The calls weren't near as bad as everyone is making them out to be.  The 2 hands to the face calls were wrong but understandably so.  Defender had his hand up near the face but not actually on it.  In real time with bad angles they look like good calls, with replay they are bad calls.

The non PI call on the Packers defender was probably missed but also wasn't called all game on either team.  Should the refs change the rules at the end of the games?  Do we want that called all game so that there are 10+ penalties per team each game?  

The unnecessary roughness call on the Lions safety with the hit on Allison is absolutely the right call.  It does not matter if he was going for the ball.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Vic Mackey

Vic Mackey 46,937

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

Didn't watch but not surprised. The NFL loves making bullshit calls for the Packers. You aren't allowed to even breathe on Rodgers anymore.

He is the single cause of you not being able to breath on QBs now. The Vikings ended his season in 2017 and he threw a big bitch fit about it and claimed they did him dirty. Boom, rule change the next season and now you can't lay a finger on QBs. But this does not apply to every single QB in a fair manner of course. The better ones have a much bigger bubble around them in the refs eyes. Rodgers might have the biggest one. Brady is another. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Vic Mackey

Vic Mackey 46,937

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, txhorns said:

The calls weren't near as bad as everyone is making them out to be.  The 2 hands to the face calls were wrong but understandably so.  Defender had his hand up near the face but not actually on it.  In real time with bad angles they look like good calls, with replay they are bad calls.

The non PI call on the Packers defender was probably missed but also wasn't called all game on either team.  Should the refs change the rules at the end of the games?  Do we want that called all game so that there are 10+ penalties per team each game?  

The unnecessary roughness call on the Lions safety with the hit on Allison is absolutely the right call.  It does not matter if he was going for the ball.

No the calls were terrible and the hands to the face bullshit call was the only reason GB walked out of there with the win. But hey, it looked bad so its ok! Yay refs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
txhorns

txhorns 2,408

Posted
Posted
Just now, Vic Mackey said:

No the calls were terrible and the hands to the face bullshit call was the only reason GB walked out of there with the win. But hey, it looked bad so its ok! Yay refs.

Those 2 calls are bad after the benefit of slow motion replay.  Which is why all personal fouls should be reviewable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
MadBurgerMaker

MadBurgerMaker 403

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, GTX Horn said:

When were the flags for the IHTTF penalties actually thrown? Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to remember them being thrown close to the end of the play when the result of the play was evident

Fairly sure the first flag, on the huge sack, came out after Rodgers was already down.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Vic Mackey

Vic Mackey 46,937

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, MadBurgerMaker said:

Fairly sure the first flag, on the huge sack, came out after Rodgers was already down.

Correct. It came out so late, I actually thought they were going to call roughing the passer since the dude lightly laid on Rodgers when he gave himself up and went down. It's the same concept as NBA refs blowing the whistle for a foul after seeing the outcome of the shot. Had Rodgers escaped and made a play to extend the drive, no flag would have been called.

Also:

72342691_2816474145065922_56065422468212

Link to comment
Share on other sites
BradInATX

BradInATX 9,208

Posted
Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, txhorns said:

The calls weren't near as bad as everyone is making them out to be.  The 2 hands to the face calls were wrong but understandably so.  Defender had his hand up near the face but not actually on it.  In real time with bad angles they look like good calls, with replay they are bad calls.

The non PI call on the Packers defender was probably missed but also wasn't called all game on either team.  Should the refs change the rules at the end of the games?  Do we want that called all game so that there are 10+ penalties per team each game?  

The unnecessary roughness call on the Lions safety with the hit on Allison is absolutely the right call.  It does not matter if he was going for the ball.

That's a call that would be understandable if you got it wrong once. But you could see Flowers lobbying his case after the first penalty, and was physically demonstrating that he had the OL by his shoulderpads, not his facemask. So the ref should have been really tuned in to whether it was shoulder pads or face mask going forward. And yet he still "got it wrong" a second time. Absolute garbage.

The refs are having a little pity party temper tantrum about all of the crap they're catching and the new rules that allow their calls to be overturned. Thus the increase in flags this year, the refusal to overturn obvious pass interference issues on review, and that ridiculous game last night. Complete lack of professionalism. They are making a point that they don't want to ever be questioned, and they are changing the winners and losers of games in the process.

Edited by BradInATX
Link to comment
Share on other sites
txhorns

txhorns 2,408

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

That's a call that would be understandable if you got it wrong once. But you could see Flowers lobbying his case after the first penalty, and was physically demonstrating that he had the OL by his shoulderpads, not his facemask. So the ref should have been really tuned in to whether it was shoulder pads or face mask going forward. And yet he still "got it wrong" a second time. Absolute garbage.

The refs are having a little pity party temper tantrum about all of the crap they're catching and the new rules that allow their calls to be overturned. Thus the increase in flags this year, the refusal to overturn obvious pass interference issues on review, and that ridiculous game last night. Complete lack of professionalism. 

I agree that the ref should have been more aware.  I think the second time looked a lot more egregious than the first time.  The OL's head snapped back like it was a hand to the face.  It looked legit live.  It was obviously wrong on replay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Huckleberry

Huckleberry 32,710

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, txhorns said:

I agree that the ref should have been more aware.  I think the second time looked a lot more egregious than the first time.  The OL's head snapped back like it was a hand to the face.  It looked legit live.  It was obviously wrong on replay.

Both calls were egregious. As an official you should absolutely never call something you don't see. The referee clearly did not see Flowers' hands in the OL's face because they were never in the OL's face.

That's why missed pass interference is more understandable (even if it should have been obvious). If you don't see it, don't call it.

Edited by Huckleberry
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Burt Macklin

Burt Macklin 19,000

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, satyanash said:

The reaction to last night's game has been pretty strong. Lots of people finally realizing that the Packers have had the refs in their pocket for years.

 

Using still photos to prove there was no penalty on a play doesn’t make a lot of sense. 

https://twitter.com/CallMeMatub/status/1184133962534227969?s=20spacer.png


The penalties on Flowers weren’t nearly as egregious as y’all are making them out to be. There’s a reason guys are coached to place their hands lower when they do a strong arm move. Him grabbing the inside collar of the pads is asking for that call just like an OL who grabs the outside of a defender’s shoulder pads even if he’s not actually holding, which was actually called against the Packers LG that game. 
 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Huckleberry

Huckleberry 32,710

Posted
Posted

Grabbing the outside of a defender's shoulder pads is actually holding every single time it happens.

image.png.7a4c4d8e2cec102db704c8c4c9bb95ef.png

It is not possible to grab the outside of the defender's shoulder pads without illegally impeding them or obstructing them. By the very nature of grabbing the outside of the shoulder pads you have impeded their lateral movement. The college rule specifically states that the hands shall be inside the frame of the opponent's body. (editor's note: I don't give much of a shit about the NFL so I'm only going to deal with college rules).

The OU hold is 100% bullshit and I personally hold our coaching staffs responsible for not getting it taken care of at the league office level.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54,015

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, txhorns said:

Those 2 calls are bad after the benefit of slow motion replay.  Which is why all personal fouls should be reviewable.

I think it's stupid that everything is not reviewable.  Give the coach one special flag that he can use once a game to review anything he wants.  Refs missed an obvious holding call on a TD?  Throw the special flag and have the league look at the play to see if holding should have been called. 

This that-play-is-not-reviewable is a bullshit copout. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Burt Macklin

Burt Macklin 19,000

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Grabbing the outside of a defender's shoulder pads is actually holding every single time it happens.

image.png.7a4c4d8e2cec102db704c8c4c9bb95ef.png

It is not possible to grab the outside of the defender's shoulder pads without illegally impeding them or obstructing them. By the very nature of grabbing the outside of the shoulder pads you have impeded their lateral movement. The college rule specifically states that the hands shall be inside the frame of the opponent's body. (editor's note: I don't give much of a shit about the NFL so I'm only going to deal with college rules).

The OU hold is 100% bullshit and I personally hold our coaching staffs responsible for not getting it taken care of at the league office level.

I see you added the editor’s note because that part of the rule doesn’t exist in the NFL. You know, the league we’re actually discussing right now.

It’s not automatically a hold to place your hands there, just like it’s not automatically a defensive penalty to grab, hold, and push/pull an offensive player by the collar of his pads, but you’re very likely to get called for illegal use of the hands if you do it. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Huckleberry

Huckleberry 32,710

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

I see you added the editor’s note because that part of the rule doesn’t exist in the NFL. You know, the league we’re actually discussing right now.

It’s not automatically a hold to place your hands there, just like it’s not automatically a defensive penalty to grab, hold, and push/pull an offensive player by the collar of his pads, but you’re very likely to get called for illegal use of the hands if you do it. 

The NFL rule is actually more direct.

image.png.39e7bb3f2f31ed182c5f4dcbdbe1137b.png

(c)(1) states quite plainly that grabbing an opponent is holding.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Burt Macklin

Burt Macklin 19,000

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

The NFL rule is actually more direct.

image.png.39e7bb3f2f31ed182c5f4dcbdbe1137b.png

(c)(1) states quite plainly that grabbing an opponent is holding.

I said put his hands there, not grab/hold, like you’re implying. If his hand is open on the outside shoulder of an opponent, then he’s not grabbing and it’s not a hold under the NFL rules.
Back to the main point, it’s poor hand placement by Flowers. If he wants to purposely place his hands less than an inch away from what would make the same action a penalty, then he’s going to have to live with refs making the wrong call at times.  
 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
spystud13

spystud13 2,371

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Troy Vincent is pretty damn well-respected around the league. 

Quote

NFL officials erred when they called a second hands-to-the-face penalty against Detroit Lions defensive end Trey Flowers that set up the Green Bay Packers' game-winning field goal Monday night, NFL executive vice president Troy Vincent said Tuesday.

Vincent was asked about the penalties during a news conference at the league's fall meeting in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, on Tuesday, a day after the Packers defeated the Lions 23-22.

Vincent said the two controversial hands-to-the face-penalties -- called against Flowers when he was rushing against the Packers' David Bakhtiari in the fourth quarter -- were a topic of discussion at a meeting with the competition committee on Tuesday.

"There was one that was clear that we support. And there was the other, when you look at it, when you review the play, not something that you want to see called in particular on the pass rush. One that you can support but the other one, clearly after you review it, you've seen some slo-mos, the foul wasn't there," he said.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
AUS-97HORN

AUS-97HORN 11,682

Posted
Posted

I think the NFL royally fucked up the moment they said PI fouls were reviewable, but left the number of challenges at 2 (3 if by some miracle you get both right).

So many of the PI reviews are being asked for and the replay officials are taking a special perversion in not overturning almost any of the non-called PI's and the only times I have seen the PI get called is for OFFENSIVE PI where a pick play or an egregious Michael Irvin push-off  happens.

So the moment you challenge a PI, and lose... you now only have 1 challenge left, and its got to be a hyper-critical moment to throw the flag.

 

The NFL really needs to add a 3rd  PI only review flag that if it gets reviewed and overturned in favor of the team asking for the review, they get to use the flag again and again.

then if they DO lose one of the PI challenges, the team could still in theory have 2 other challenges they can use in critical situations like the Lions no call shown above in the pics and see if that works.

 

but that 3rd challenge is limited to PI only.    (although the special flag idea by Beau Vine could apply as well)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
 Share
Go to topic listing


Football ... Basketball ... Baseball ... Other Sports ... Futbol ... 🤫995🤫 ... Gambling ... Movies & TV ... Music ... Hobbies ... Lulz ... Food & Travel ... Daily Texan ... Business and Markets ... Cloak Room ... Help ... For Sale ... Board Discussion ... Subscribe!... Donate!... Advertise... COOKIE MONSTER!

×
×
  • Create New...