4th Democratic Debate - Ohio - CNN

[SquishMitten 10,401]

2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Yeah, this seemed like a contradiction with his debate performance.

Pete:  “We should all come together”

Also Pete: “Everyone on this stage sucks except me.”

Your first statement was Booker's message. Your second one accurately reflects Pete though. The messaging of Pete that I referred to was his appeal to those across the aisle, pushing for plans that aren't as alienating to the Rs. Sort of a "Baby steps instead of giant leaps" idea. I get what he's saying, and it's not a bad strategy for whoever ultimately gets the nomination, but I don't think it'll work out well in the primary.

[henrygandorf 29,177]

4 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

Your first statement was Booker's message. Your second one accurately reflects Pete though. The messaging of Pete that I referred to was his appeal to those across the aisle, pushing for plans that aren't as alienating to the Rs. Sort of a "Baby steps instead of giant leaps" idea. I get what he's saying, and it's not a bad strategy for whoever ultimately gets the nomination, but I don't think it'll work out well in the primary.

for better or worse, he's mostly been running a "general election" strategy during the primary.

i think it's helped at times, and others, not as much. 

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

Pete strikes me as a less-experienced Obama.  He's a good, exceptionally smart dude who confuses the actual America for the pretend America of our ideals and thinks that he can implement his vision by the sheer force of his reasonableness.   He'll get eaten alive by the GOP while doing little to help those who don't have the privilege of pretending that America is something it isn't. 

[BigOrange1 6,422]

watched about an hour of the debate.  officially all in on warren.

[Hank Kingsley 20,704]

18 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

He's a good, exceptionally smart dude who confuses the actual America for the pretend America of our ideals and thinks that he can implement his vision by the sheer force of his reasonableness.   

How does Warren implement her vision? 

[lemonlime 5,503]

36 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

for better or worse, he's mostly been running a "general election" strategy during the primary.

i think it's helped at times, and others, not as much. 

I'm not sure if it's the strategy that hurting Booker.   He hasn't caught fire in the primaries for whatever reason, but I thought his message at the debate was good. Frankly, I want to hear 12 Democratic candidates squabble about the intricacies of health care policy ideas that will never get through Congress anyway nearly as little as I want to hear another trump monotone drugged teleprompter speech.  

It's about finding the best, most dynamic person to beat Trump and to clean up the mess the GOP has made of this country over the last three years.  Anything else is just noise.

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

12 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

How does Warren implement her vision? 

For one thing, by not trusting that we can work with moderate Republicans, and by not mistaking toughness for "infinite partisan combat."  Partisan combat is exactly what we need right now from a Democrat.   It took Obama a few years to realize that and by then it was too late. It's astounding, and a sign of his inexperience, that Mayor Pete still doesn't get that and thinks that things will go back to some kind of great "normal" the day after Trump leaves office.

Edited October 16, 2019 by Mojo Hand

[Hank Kingsley 20,704]

Just now, Mojo Hand said:

For one thing, by not trusting that we can work with moderate Republicans, and by not mistaking toughness for "infinite partisan combat."  Partisan combat is exactly what we need right now.   It took Obama a few years to realize that and by then it was too late. It's astounding, and a sign of his inexperience, that Mayor Pete still doesn't get that and thinks that things will go back to some kind of great "normal" the day after Trump leaves office.

Pete is not focusing on trying to work with moderate Republican politicians. He sees an American majority that generally agrees on healthcare reform, guns, immigration, and increasing taxes on the rich. And that being the path to get shit done. 

I understand why you think  "partisan combat is exactly what we need right now".  Looking at the bigger picture, I disagree. 

 

[Hank Kingsley 20,704]

 

[bad_teammate 13,132]

1 hour ago, SquishMitten said:

The messaging of Pete that I referred to was his appeal to those across the aisle, pushing for plans that aren't as alienating to the Rs.

What is it in Pete's personality, history, and message that makes you think he's going to get conservatives to go along with him?

Hilarious

 

[bad_teammate 13,132]

16 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Pete is not focusing on trying to work with moderate Republican politicians. He sees an American majority that generally agrees on healthcare reform, guns, immigration, and increasing taxes on the rich. And that being the path to get shit done.

What history does this dork have of working across the aisle to get things done? It's hilarious that we're dealing with a nobody from Indiana in his 30s with zero accomplishments trying to lecture decades-experienced legislators about how to GET THINGS DONE.

And what does it mean that he sees that majority and "that being the path"? Be specific. How does that translate into change?

[Neonmoon 38,127]

The sick side of me wants Pete or Bernie or Biden to get elected over Warren just to see some people in this thread have a complete meltdown about it. 

[SquishMitten 10,401]

28 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

What is it in Pete's personality, history, and message that makes you think he's going to get conservatives to go along with him?

Hilarious

 

Never said he would. I only said it was a good message, to be used by whoever wins the nomination. It won't be Pete. 

[TexEx15 17,486]

 

[bad_teammate 13,132]

I would love to see how many high-dollar donations he got as he attacked universal healthcare and used right-wing attacks to demonize taxation and public services.

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

49 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Pete is not focusing on trying to work with moderate Republican politicians. He sees an American majority that generally agrees on healthcare reform, guns, immigration, and increasing taxes on the rich. And that being the path to get shit done. 

I understand why you think  "partisan combat is exactly what we need right now".  Looking at the bigger picture, I disagree. 

 

Sure, and Warren (and Bernie) sees that the same American majority has existed for decades and that we need to attack the reasons why that hasn't been enough in the past.  That's the real bigger picture.   Pete's running on the Obama message without any of the lessons learned during the Obama presidency. 

[Biff Tannen 45,495]

16 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

The sick side of me wants Pete or Bernie or Biden to get elected over Warren just to see some people in this thread have a complete meltdown about it. 

I don't think people would melt down.  I prefer Warren by a long shot, but if it's one of those, even Biden, fine.  Whatever it takes.  They SHOULD all be able to destroy the dotard.  If they don't, that's on us as voters.

[bad_teammate 13,132]

1 minute ago, Mojo Hand said:

Sure, and Warren (and Bernie) sees that the same American majority has existed for decades and that we need to attack the reasons why that hasn't been enough in the past.

Liz and Bernie realize that motivating the masses is the only way to get ANYTHING progressive passed and that's why they are making grassroots appeals to large numbers of underclass voters (Bernie moreso than Liz, but the point remains).

Pete is on a grift. He has no future in Indiana beyond being a mayor, he will be annihilated in any statewide office run, and his massive ambitions will rely on being the Pet Good Boy of the liberal donor class, a position he is securing by spearheading an attack on a social entitlement program that will save tens/hundreds of thousands of lives.

[Message Board User 12,389]

Get me some new candidates.

C'mon Oprah, it's not too late....

[Doc Sam Beckett 5,784]

26 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I don't think people would melt down.  I prefer Warren by a long shot, but if it's one of those, even Biden, fine.  Whatever it takes.  They SHOULD all be able to destroy the dotard.  If they don't, that's on us as voters.

Exactly. I think Warren is by far the best, would be happy with Bernie, content with Pete and have diarrhea with Biden but still feel like a good cleansing took place. 

[Hank Kingsley 20,704]

Buttigieg advisor: 

 

[Neonmoon 38,127]

53 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I don't think people would melt down.  I prefer Warren by a long shot, but if it's one of those, even Biden, fine.  Whatever it takes.  They SHOULD all be able to destroy the dotard.  If they don't, that's on us as voters.

Be fair, Bad Teammate and Hugo would absolutely melt down 

[Js1 85,110]

2 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Be fair, Bad Teammate and Hugo would absolutely melt down 

Heh. Popcorn gif 

[henrygandorf 29,177]

2 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Be fair, Bad Teammate and Hugo would absolutely melt down 

hugo's already melting down and his candidate is winning!

[Fozzz 152]

lol of course Silver is pumping Pete and Amy.  Among the centrists, I do prefer Amy over Pete if only for that brutishness Klobuchar gives off which, if she were attractive, would be quite sexy.  

Edited October 16, 2019 by Fozzz

[RDCanecutter 26,276]

14 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

lol of course Silver is pumping Pete and Amy.  Among the centrists, I do prefer Amy over Pete if only for that brutishness Klobuchar gives off which, if she were attractive, would be quite sexy.  

She's got that Mama Half-Orc thing going on.

[bad_teammate 13,132]

Yes, if we elect Dem garbage who will do nothing to avert climate disaster and do nothing to make sure tens of thousands of Americans every year don't die for lack of healthcare and do nothing to help those suffering under student/medical debt and do nothing to end our wars abroad (and will actually cheer as Israel murders more children) and do nothing to end the housing crisis, I will melt down.

The suffering of those people will make me Mad Online and you will have truly won by owning me.

And my tears will flow into your cups and you will know true victory.

Congratulations!

[Fozzz 152]

Why would he think she's in lockstep in Bernie?  No one really believes that, I don't think.  

[Jiggy-Z 3,432]

11 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Yes, if we elect Dem garbage who will do nothing to avert climate disaster and do nothing to make sure tens of thousands of Americans every year don't die for lack of healthcare and do nothing to help those suffering under student/medical debt and do nothing to end our wars abroad (and will actually cheer as Israel murders more children) and do nothing to end the housing crisis, I will melt down.

The suffering of those people will make me Mad Online and you will have truly won by owning me.

And my tears will flow into your cups and you will know true victory.

Congratulations!

At this point, I think any Dem winner of the GE is going to have their hands full putting out fires and undoing damage from the current admin. A reasonable platform would be rolling back the last tax cut in order to pay for some, wait for it...infrastructure.  But seriously, there has been so much damage caused by Trump at more than just the State Dept.  Its almost like Energy, Interior, Ag, and EPA are doing the opposite of what they are supposed to be doing.  Trump has unleashed a swarm of political termites(not my term) all over the place and will take years if not decades to undo.

I would set my expectations low given the damage and the fact that they will be trying to do this during an inevitable slow down in the economy. Sins of the past do not eaasily fix themselves, Obama outside should have told you.

Pulling for Liz though.

[henrygandorf 29,177]

2 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

I would love to see how many high-dollar donations he got as he attacked universal healthcare and used right-wing attacks to demonize taxation and public services.

i thought the high-dollar donations came at big corporate fundraisers and from selling selfies for $500?  doesn't seem like the type you rake in during the 12 hours post-debate.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

2 hours ago, Mojo Hand said:

Pete's running on the Obama message

Pete isn’t running a “Yes we can” campaign.  He’s running more of an “It would be nice but no you can’t.”

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

Be fair, Bad Teammate and Hugo would absolutely melt down 

Liberal tears! So fucking cool! 

[Bama Chick 28,596]

i thought the high-dollar donations came at big corporate fundraisers and from selling selfies for $500?  doesn't seem like the type you rake in during the 12 hours post-debate.

So, pocket change?

[bad_teammate 13,132]

5 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

i thought the high-dollar donations came at big corporate fundraisers and from selling selfies for $500?  doesn't seem like the type you rake in during the 12 hours post-debate.

When healthcare execs and other members of the wealth class watch you attack social welfare programs on TV? That's the perfect time to get their online money.

[tantric superman 4,667]

6 hours ago, Fozzz said:

lol of course Silver is pumping Pete and Amy.  Among the centrists, I do prefer Amy over Pete if only for that brutishness Klobuchar gives off which, if she were attractive, would be quite sexy.  

Yep.  If Klob were a guy she's be a very dangerous moderate and Biden would be just about ready to hang it up. 

 

[tantric superman 4,667]

So who the hell is most likely to get Oprah and Obama and O'Rourke to, respectively, get the black and Mexican American vote out for them?

Right now the only folks that feel like they have real energy behind them are Sanders, Warren and Mayor Pete. 

No matter who is nominated, the Trump haters are going to vote for them.  Who is going to be able to pivot fast and minorities and women on board?  I'd like to think Warren locks in the women, but white Republican women do respect the pussy grabbers.

[F250 28,688]

6 hours ago, Jiggy-Z said:

At this point, I think any Dem winner of the GE is going to have their hands full putting out fires and undoing damage from the current admin. A reasonable platform would be rolling back the last tax cut in order to pay for some, wait for it...infrastructure.  But seriously, there has been so much damage caused by Trump at more than just the State Dept.  Its almost like Energy, Interior, Ag, and EPA are doing the opposite of what they are supposed to be doing.  Trump has unleashed a swarm of political termites(not my term) all over the place and will take years if not decades to undo.

I would set my expectations low given the damage and the fact that they will be trying to do this during an inevitable slow down in the economy. Sins of the past do not eaasily fix themselves, Obama outside should have told you.

Pulling for Liz though.

I believe you are correct. The next POTUS will walk into one of the largest organizations in the world that not only has been rudderless but actively sabotaged by Trump Inc. for nearly half a decade. The first several years of their term will be like the movie The Money Pit.

 

[bad_teammate 13,132]

Garbage platitudes designed specifically to let you avoid arguing against massive social welfare policies you dislike but you know are broadly popular among the Democratic base.

"No no no we can't make sure your son doesn't die of having to ration his insulin, we need the president to make sure we get the right guy to bring the Undersecretary of Transportation coffee."

[Hank Kingsley 20,704]

23 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

A really big mistake made by too many candidates/campaigns is getting caught up in the Twitter-sphere.  This particular corner of social media is not the general Democrat electorate.

Letting Twitter, even subconsciously, dictate any of your primary strategy is amateur hour.  Getting in a sick burn, subtweeting other campaigns, or desperately seeking a viral moment doesn't really help.

To wit: 

 

[Jiggy-Z 3,432]

12 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

Garbage platitudes designed specifically to let you avoid arguing against massive social welfare policies you dislike but you know are broadly popular among the Democratic base.

"No no no we can't make sure your son doesn't die of having to ration his insulin, we need the president to make sure we get the right guy to bring the Undersecretary of Transportation coffee."

First, you seem like kind of an asshole.

2nd, I think some of the items you listed in your post I quoted will definitely see some early action and positive change, like climate change for example or as I mentioned, roll back of tax cut and then some addressing of wealth inequality through some kind of tax plan and restriction of influence or even foreign wars and other unhealthy entanglements/alliances. 

3rd, it is not a garbage platitude to suggest that these issues are not easily solved, especially healthcare.

4th, nobody, not even you, "likes" massive social welfare policies, even though I consider them money well spent.  They are unpleasant because they force us to admit our previous shortcomings and lack of vision,  payment for them often comes from those who did not benefit from their neglect and the responsible parties are seldom held accountable.  Even the intended beneficiaries are often left out in the cold due to bureaucracy, lack of foresight in implementation, or spreading the benefits to thin.  Does that mean they should not be addressed with vigor? No.  Just don't expect a miracle even if the Ds sweep all branches in the next election. 

[bad_teammate 13,132]

Here's what you offered:

Quote

A reasonable platform would be rolling back the last tax cut in order to pay for some, wait for it...infrastructure.

What kind of response does that deserve?

We're facing global climate catastrophe, massive inequality, a healthcare nightmare, and deeply-ingrained structural discrimination and our ambitions should be no less than that. The soft-serve liberal version of Make American Obama's Again is unacceptable.

Just be a conservative, dude, it's OK.

[Jiggy-Z 3,432]

10 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Here's what you offered:

What kind of response does that deserve?

We're facing global climate catastrophe, massive inequality, a healthcare nightmare, and deeply-ingrained structural discrimination and our ambitions should be no less than that. The soft-serve liberal version of Make American Obama's Again is unacceptable.

Just be a conservative, dude, it's OK.

You just can't take yes for an answer.  Tell you what, I'm going to go ahead an support Warren like I said I would, and you just keep being you. I have had enough of this thread derailment.

[Bruh Man 3,160]

On 10/16/2019 at 1:37 PM, bad_teammate said:

Liz and Bernie realize that motivating the masses is the only way to get ANYTHING progressive passed and that's why they are making grassroots appeals to large numbers of underclass voters (Bernie moreso than Liz, but the point remains).

Pete is on a grift. He has no future in Indiana beyond being a mayor, he will be annihilated in any statewide office run, and his massive ambitions will rely on being the Pet Good Boy of the liberal donor class, a position he is securing by spearheading an attack on a social entitlement program that will save tens/hundreds of thousands of lives.

You don't think he could become governor like Evan Bayh? 

[bad_teammate 13,132]

Well there's a reason he hasn't tried.

He wanted to become DNC chair and when that didn't work he ran for president. 

[Bama Chick 28,596]

Pete got absolutely demolished in his one attempt at a statewide election when he ran for Indiana State Treasurer in 2010.



And he did win the South Bend mayoral race with 80% of the vote. But he only garnered 8,500 votes in a city of 102,000 people.



Now, he obviously has a much higher profile now but it’s still Indiana.

Home of Mike Pence and two Republican senators and 7 of their 9 Representatives are Republicans.

All of the elected state officials - Governor, Lieutenant Governor, Attorney General, Auditor, Secretary of State, Treasurer, and Superintendent of Public Education - are Republicans.

This is the composition of the Indiana State Legislature -



So, you tell me what kind of chance you think Mayor Pete has at winning a state election in Indiana?

[BradInATX 9,208]

Pete got absolutely demolished in his one attempt at a statewide election when he ran for Indiana State Treasurer in 2010.



And he did win the South Bend mayoral race with 80% of the vote. But he only garnered 8,500 votes in a city of 102,000 people.



Now, he obviously has a much higher profile now but it’s still Indiana.

Home of Mike Pence and two Republican senators and 7 of their 9 Representatives are Republicans.

All of the elected state officials - Governor, Lieutenant Governor, Attorney General, Auditor, Secretary of State, Treasurer, and Superintendent of Public Education - are Republicans.

This is the composition of the Indiana State Legislature -



So, you tell me what kind of chance you think Mayor Pete has at winning a state election in Indiana?

Well, he is a Republican..

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

Pete could run for Congress.  His district is held by an R who won 55-45 in 2018.

[Mapache 1,117]

 

[Hank Kingsley 20,704]

If Pete's not the nominee, I think he'd be most useful in a Cabinet position. 

 

 

 

[Zonahorn 8,079]

31 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

If Pete's not the nominee, I think he'd be most useful in a Cabinet position. 

 

 

 

He isn’t going to be the nominee, and he’d be more useful being shoved back into the hole he crawled out of.