Is Tulsi Gabbard A Russian Asset?

[Fozzz 152]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

He should put some effort into reporting on the Trump regime.

Well the intercept, which he co-founded, does plenty of great investigative journalism on the current administration.  Glenn lives in Brazil and his best contacts are located there (hence how he came into possession of those transcripts regarding Operation Car Wash).  

[Fozzz 152]

Aloha.

 

[jimmyjazz 46293]

2 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

At this stage in his career there is little difference between the things Nasty Nate publicly talks/writes about and what you would hear from some rando airhead panelist on daytime MSNBC.  

 

Really?  Because if I go to fivethirtyeight, I see blog posts on Politics, Sports, Science & Health, Economics, and Culture.  Under "Politics", I see a bunch of posts, none written by Nate.  When I dig back through those he has authored, I see a couple of posts about the NBA, and then a couple that are related to how endorsements might affect an election as well as one looking into age and likely nominee.

You know, statistical stuff.  You're speaking through your hat, as usual.  

[bad_teammate 13226]

28 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Greenwald has been receiving death threats for his reporting on Bolsonaro's regime and one of his close friends was assassinated last year by one of Bolsonaro's stooges and yet many on this board seem perfectly fine to smear him as being some kind of fascist or fascist-adjacent type.  

Nah man Glenn Greenwald is only responsible for exposing, at tremendous personal risk, two of the biggest corruption stories in modern history, Snowden & Lava Jato. But some of his Tweets are bad, so basically he's garbage unlike these temporary-non-Republicans who supported the Iraq war and think BDS is basically ISIS and Israeli soldiers shooting children in the head through a chain link fence is regrettable, but fine.

Tulsi Gabbard is lame and her politics aren't anything I care about and it's cool that she'll disappear soon and nothing of value will be lost. She's not a Russian agent or asset.
Jill Stein is kind of funny and even less relevant than Tulsi, which is hard to pull off if you supposedly have thousands of agents working on your behalf. She's not a Russian agent or asset, either.

Still waiting for evidence of actual Russian intelligence connections to either of these women.

Edited October 25, 2019 by bad_teammate

[David Dennison 18952]

Just now, Fozzz said:

Well the intercept, which he co-founded, does plenty of great investigative journalism on the current administration.  Glenn lives in Brazil and his best contacts are located there (hence how he came into possession of those transcripts regarding Operation Car Wash).  

Yes, I've read some of that "great" investigative journalism on the Russian conspiracy. Top notch work.

 

[David Dennison 18952]

Just now, bad_teammate said:

Nah man Glenn Greenwald is only responsible for exposing, at tremendous personal risk, two of the biggest corruption stories in modern history, Snowden & Lava Jato. But some of his Tweets are bad, so basically he's garbage unlike these temporary-non-Republicans who supported the Iraq war and think BDS is basically ISIS and Israeli soldiers shooting children in the head through a chain link fence is regrettable, but fine.

Tulsi Gabbard sucks and her politics mostly suck and it's cool that she'll disappear soon and nothing of value will be lost. She's not a Russian agent or asset.
Jill Stein is kind of funny and even less relevant than Tulsi, which is hard to pull off if you supposedly have thousands of agents working on your behalf. She's not a Russian agent or asset, either.

Still waiting for evidence of actual Russian intelligence connections to either of these women.

It's going to be a problem for Democrats when she runs as a third party candidate.

[Pancho 45108]

 

[Fozzz 152]

She's running to be Putin's viceroy of Syria, clearly.  

[bad_teammate 13226]

4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Yes, I've read some of that "great" investigative journalism on the Russian conspiracy. Top notch work.

How does one respond to such substantive critique!? Truly blown away.

He's right. Mueller's report and subsequent testimony were a wet fart. Trump is a corrupt, venal, racist, lying piece of shit. Gabbard is self-aggrandizing and a cultist weirdo whose supposed anti-imperialism is inconsistent to put it mildly. Stein is a hippy-dippy weirdo with mostly better politics than the previous two.

The Russiagate hype was 10x larger than its substance. Lots of banal, low-level, hilariously-incompetent-and-sad corruption featuring characters too dumb for Cohen brothers movies, and to even call it a "conspiracy" is to give the actors involved too much credit.

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

It's going to be a problem for Democrats when she runs as a third party candidate.

And when she doesn't? Will you have learned anything? Will you admit to being as gullible and easily-distracted as Hugo?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

As far a Greenwald goes, I tend to think he's been radicalized to be anti-American past the point of no return, maybe it was the Snowden revelations or maybe he's just an asshole.  His worldview aligns with the bad actors working against American interests.  Like the Russians, I tend to think he just wants to see the American Empire collapse.  The thing that bothers me the most about Glenn is he's way more anti-American than he is pro democracy.  He seems more interested in burning it down than building something better.  

[bad_teammate 13226]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

As far a Greenwald goes, I tend to think he's been radicalized to be anti-American past the point of no return, maybe it was the Snowden revelations or maybe he's just an asshole.  His worldview aligns with the bad actors working against American interests.  Like the Russians, I tend to think he just wants to see the American Empire collapse.  The thing that bothers me the most about Glenn is he's way more anti-American than he is pro democracy.  He seems more interested in burning it down than building something better.  

This sounds like someone trying to write a response paragraph to a passage they didn't read.

*furiously searching through stack of VHS recordings of Maddow*
"Well, you see, Glenn Greenwald is a land of contrasts..."

Glenn's husband is a Brazilian politician for the Socialist Labor Party, sworn into office in February. The (also LGBT) person in his position before him left due to death threats. The woman who came before THAT guy, Marielle Franco, was assassinated. In the midst of all this, Greenwald broke a massive story exposing the Brazilian Justice Minister of being complicit in rampant corruption to frame an extremely popular leftist politician (Lula da Silva) to ensure that Jair Bolsonaro, a fascist, was elected.

"bad actors"

Shut the fuck up, Hugo.

 

Also, Glenn's husband could get it

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13588]

Obstruction of justice is a crime precisely because it hinders or prevents law enforcement from obtaining evidence that would convict beyond the reasonable doubt standard, and Volume II of the Mueller Report contains multiple open and shut cases of it, as attested to by over 1000 former federal prosecutors. So what exactly is the point of that Greenwald tweet? That is such an incredibly weak and regurgitated point.

[Js1 85631]

Well, minus the teeth.  They make adult braces. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

9 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

How does one respond to such substantive critique!? Truly blown away.

He's right. Mueller's report and subsequent testimony were a wet fart. Trump is a corrupt, venal, racist, lying piece of shit. Gabbard is self-aggrandizing and a cultist weirdo whose supposed anti-imperialism is inconsistent to put it mildly. Stein is a hippy-dippy weirdo with mostly better politics than the previous two.

The Russiagate hype was 10x larger than its substance. Lots of banal, low-level, hilariously-incompetent-and-sad corruption featuring characters too dumb for Cohen brothers movies, and to even call it a "conspiracy" is to give the actors involved too much credit.

And when she doesn't? Will you have learned anything? Will you admit to being as gullible and easily-distracted as Hugo?

Glenn obviously didn't read the Mueller Report because the thesis of the whole thing was "We couldn't establish a criminal conspiracy with the Russian government and the Trump campaign because our investigation was obstructed every step of the way by the president and the assholes we indicted and sent to prison for obstructing the investigation.  Also, the Russians we indicted are beyond the reach of our government so we couldn't exactly question them either."  The Mueller investigation was mostly an investigation into a cover-up which is still very much ongoing.  

Moreover, it wasn't the Trump part of the Mueller investigation that was most important and I myself was frustrated with the media's hyper focus on that portion of it.  It was always the Russian government's multi-pronged attack on the American people, the election, and our information space.  The Trump campaign was a dumb-ass foot soldier in that attack and the Mueller Report concluded as much. 

 

[jimmyjazz 46293]

5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Moreover, it wasn't the Trump part of the Mueller investigation that was most important and I myself was frustrated with the media's hyper focus on that portion of it.  It was always the Russian government's multi-pronged attack on the American people, the election, and our information space.

Well, that perspective runs contrary to Rosenstein's letter appointing Mueller to run the investigation:

i.  any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump;

with ii) and iii) authorizing further investigation of "other matters" that might arise, etc.

 

The investigation was primarily about Trump's campaign conspiring with the Russian government.  It does no good for you to blur that line after the fact.

[David Dennison 18952]

46 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

And when she doesn't? Will you have learned anything? Will you admit to being as gullible and easily-distracted as Hugo?

No more than you will when Bernie drops out of the race. 

I'll be glad if Tulsi doesn't run a third party bid, but I won't be surprised at all if she does. 

 

Edited October 25, 2019 by David Dennison

[wildcat09 29439]

57 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Nah man Glenn Greenwald is only responsible for exposing, at tremendous personal risk, two of the biggest corruption stories in modern history, Snowden & Lava Jato. But some of his Tweets are bad, so basically he's garbage unlike these temporary-non-Republicans who supported the Iraq war and think BDS is basically ISIS and Israeli soldiers shooting children in the head through a chain link fence is regrettable, but fine.

Tulsi Gabbard is lame and her politics aren't anything I care about and it's cool that she'll disappear soon and nothing of value will be lost. She's not a Russian agent or asset.
Jill Stein is kind of funny and even less relevant than Tulsi, which is hard to pull off if you supposedly have thousands of agents working on your behalf. She's not a Russian agent or asset, either.

Still waiting for evidence of actual Russian intelligence connections to either of these women.

Well, there was this:

[jimmyjazz 46293]

Looks 'shopped.

[Anastasis 23471]

22 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Moreover, it wasn't the Trump part of the Mueller investigation that was most important and I myself was frustrated with the media's hyper focus on that portion of it.  It was always the Russian government's multi-pronged attack on the American people, the election, and our information space.  The Trump campaign was a dumb-ass foot soldier in that attack and the Mueller Report concluded as much. 

 

 

 

Hugo revisionist history. 

Edited October 25, 2019 by Anastasis

[triplehorn 2664]

6 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Well, there was this:

nice reverse alley-oop there, B-T.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

22 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Well, that perspective runs contrary to Rosenstein's letter appointing Mueller to run the investigation:

i.  any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump;

with ii) and iii) authorizing further investigation of "other matters" that might arise, etc.

The investigation was primarily about Trump's campaign conspiring with the Russian government.  It does no good for you to blur that line after the fact.

Mueller’s primary directive was to investigate the Russian government’s interference in the 2016 election.  It’s literally the title of his directive. 

While important and ordered, the Trump campaign coordination part was a subset of a broader investigation and it’s also important to note many findings of the investigation have not been made public.  Michael Flynn, Gates, and Roger Stone still haven’t been sentenced so this isn’t exactly over yet either.

Edited October 25, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[jimmyjazz 46293]

Oh, come on.  The title isn't the charge.

This is going to go nowhere -- I'm out.

[American Swindle 102]

55 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

As far a Greenwald goes, I tend to think he's been radicalized to be anti-American past the point of no return, maybe it was the Snowden revelations or maybe he's just an asshole.  His worldview aligns with the bad actors working against American interests.  Like the Russians, I tend to think he just wants to see the American Empire collapse.  The thing that bothers me the most about Glenn is he's way more anti-American than he is pro democracy.  He seems more interested in burning it down than building something better.  

 This read like a James Clapper denial that Americans were having their data and communications collected and stored.  

When you're licking a boot, try not to swallow the entire boot, you may choke.

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

Oh, come on.  The title isn't the charge.

This is going to go nowhere -- I'm out.

Alright, perhaps I misspoke and unfairly minimized the Trump portion of the investigation.  Mea culpa.

However, the Mueller Report outlines in great detail the Russian attack FIRST before going into the Trump campaign connections. 

[American Swindle 102]

30 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Well, there was this:

Then their are these that sound much more logical and rational in my opinion. 

What is more likely?  

Anti-war proponents such as Jill Stein and Tulsi Gabbard are being smeared by the Deep State as Russian Actors/Assets due to their strong opposition to the Warfare state? OR, are they truly Russian assets?  

It's clearly the former in my opinion. Oh and we get a double whammy of Glenn Greenwald making the succint point that they didn't charge Stein of being a Russian Asset during the Mueller investigation.  But yeah, he's a hack with an anti-American bias so nothing to see here folks!

 

Quote

 

 

 

Edited October 25, 2019 by American Swindle

[David Dennison 18952]

'Member when Robert Mueller said, "If we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so."

I 'member.

[GW Hayduke 1953]

Is it more telling that Tulsi is being defended by Greenwald, BadTeammate, David Duke, AmericanSwindle, or Tucker Carlson?

fixed

[David Dennison 18952]

Are Tulsi Gabbard and Jill Stein Russian assets?

No.

They are, as Vladimir Putin is well aware, useful idiots.

[GW Hayduke 1953]

Useful idiot = asset

[bad_teammate 13226]

1 hour ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

So what exactly is the point of that Greenwald tweet? That is such an incredibly weak and regurgitated point.

Are criminal cases only conducted if everyone involved cooperates? If some people lie to investigators, nobody gets charged?

Was there collusion? Maybe. I know that this massive investigation didn't prove it and Greenwald is 100% correct in pointing that out.

44 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

No more than you will when Bernie drops out of the race. 

I guess this is supposed to be a dig, but I see a ton of ways Bernie doesn't win the primary. I've never given him more than a 25% shot.

42 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Well, there was this:

I have seen the picture. Make your argument. Articulate it with words.

9 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

'Member when Robert Mueller said, "If we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so."

I remember that, too.

[bad_teammate 13226]

7 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

Useful idiot = asset

Question: Do you think Hillary's public assault on Gabbard made it more likely that Gabbard will run 3rd party, less likely that Gabbard will run 3rd party, or zero change?

Because it's pretty obvious to me that it has dramatically increased the odds that Gabbard will.

Does this make Hillary a Russian asset?

[RDCanecutter 26480]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

And when she doesn't? Will you have learned anything?

Pos rep for use of the Future Perfect. Seeing it appear on Surly is akin to watching a bar brawler successfully parry in prime with a beer bottle.

[Fozzz 152]

So were the people who protested our invasion of Iraq, an action that Russia of course protested vehemently, also "useful idiots"?  

[American Swindle 102]

14 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

Is it more telling that Tulsi is being defended by Greenwald, BadTeammate, David Duke, AmericanSwindle, or Tucker Carlson?

fixed

So much substance! You must feel proud and strong.  Good job on persuading no one to see it your way. 

 

 

[GW Hayduke 1953]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Question: Do you think Hillary's public assault on Gabbard made it more likely that Gabbard will run 3rd party, less likely that Gabbard will run 3rd party, or zero change?

Because it's pretty obvious to me that it has dramatically increased the odds that Gabbard will.

Does this make Hillary a Russian asset?

You always ask irrelevant questions. Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity run the same shtick. 

[bad_teammate 13226]

2 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

So were the people who protested our invasion of Iraq, an action that Russia of course protested vehemently, also "useful idiots"?  

Well the #Resistance libs are literally quote-tweeting David fucking Frum unironically so... yes.

[henrygandorf 29197]

if they're useful (to russia) than they might as well be an "asset".  semantics and such.

it matters not to me if they're an idiot.  tulsi seems like the type to not really know if she's in on the gag.

[henrygandorf 29197]

14 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Does this make Hillary a Russian asset?

if i say yes, will she go away?

[bad_teammate 13226]

The Stein picture is from the RT Gala in 12/2015.

RT is is a Russian-government-funded television network, much like al-Jazeera is Qatari. RT runs actual international journalism with editorial independence with good shows like Breaking the Set with Abby Martin and On Contact with Chris Hedges. It also has had dumb ones like Larry King and Jesse Ventura. At its best, it is far better international journalism than basically anything you get from mainstream American media. (al-Jazeera, of course, is head and shoulders above American media in journalistic independence and quality)

RT gave Stein airtime because anti-imperialist messages like Stein's don't get mainstream media airtime. So she went to the gala.

Anti-imperialists often do and say things that jingoists get nervous about.

c'est la vie

1 minute ago, henrygandorf said:

if they're useful (to russia) than they might as well be an "asset".  semantics and such.

it matters not to me if they're an idiot.  tulsi seems like the type to not really know if she's in on the gag.

If they don't know they're in on the gag, then it's pointless to even talk about, because then literally any American who proposes anything that Russian power would like is now an "asset".

All of us have some views that Russian power supports. The idea that Russian power and good are just diametric opposites at all points is just dumb.

[jimmyjazz 46293]

For someone who is as anti-war as Tulsi Gabbard, she sure does cozy up to some pretty big fans of war.

[bad_teammate 13226]

7 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

For someone who is as anti-war as Tulsi Gabbard, she sure does cozy up to some pretty big fans of war.

It happens

[wildcat09 29439]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

The Stein picture is from the RT Gala in 12/2015.

RT is is a Russian-government-funded television network, much like al-Jazeera is Qatari. RT runs actual international journalism with editorial independence with good shows like Breaking the Set with Abby Martin and On Contact with Chris Hedges. It also has had dumb ones like Larry King and Jesse Ventura. At its best, it is far better international journalism than basically anything you get from mainstream American media. (al-Jazeera, of course, is head and shoulders above American media in journalistic independence and quality)

RT gave Stein airtime because anti-imperialist messages like Stein's don't get mainstream media airtime. So she went to the gala.

Anti-imperialists often do and say things that jingoists get nervous about.

c'est la vie

If they don't know they're in on the gag, then it's pointless to even talk about, because then literally any American who proposes anything that Russian power would like is now an "asset".

All of us have some views that Russian power supports. The idea that Russian power and good are just diametric opposites at all points is just dumb.

C'mon man, Jill Stein didn't get seated at a table with Vladimir Putin by accident.

Do I have a precise theory?  No. I tend to think Stein is largely a grifter who ran for President for the same reason most of the Republican field of candidates did (including Trump): self-promotion. But I certainly think her campaign could have been influenced by Russian intelligence. Hell, Trump's campaign was riddled with Russian intelligence contacts and it would be dumb to think his is the only one they tried to influence, so there's no real reason to doubt that the woman literally seated at a dinner at Putin's table wasn't at least a target of Russian influence attempts. Did they succeed to the extent that she consciously chose to be a Russian asset? No clue. Maybe she was just a useful idiot, maybe the Russians weren't successful at infiltrating her campaign like they were Trump's, but she furthered their purposes regardless.

As for Tulsi, I don't think she's coordinating with Russia but I think she knows her politics and Putin's politics align.

There's virtue in anti-American imperialism politics, but this shit about "oh everyone is just saying this shit about these two because they oppose American imperialism" is stupid.  They're two shitty people, one of whom has already played spoiler in an election between a bad choice and a potential dictator, and the other very obviously intends to play the same role. Neither one of them actually opposes imperialism, they just oppose American imperialism.  When the anti-anti Trump/anti-American imperialism stance ends up affirmatively supporting Russian imperialism, it's disappeared completely up its own ass. An extended-duration US presence in Syria sucks, but so does abandoning the SDF and allowing Turkey and Russia to carve up and destroy Rojava. In fact, that sucks much more.

[jimmyjazz 46293]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

It happens

Do you see Harris and Warren's meet and greets with Bibi as identical to Gabbard's associations with, say, Assad?

[David Dennison 18952]

32 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Question: Do you think Hillary's public assault on Gabbard made it more likely that Gabbard will run 3rd party, less likely that Gabbard will run 3rd party, or zero change?

Because it's pretty obvious to me that it has dramatically increased the odds that Gabbard will.

Does this make Hillary a Russian asset?

No, it makes her an incompetent politician. But we already knew that about her. After all, she lost an election to Donald Trump.

[GW Hayduke 1953]

['stache 21892]

Isn't it possible that this hot chick is crazy and a bad democratic candidate, and also that Hillary Clinton should shut the fuck up? Hillary wasn't my primary vote but she damn sure was my vote in the general. The 30 year smear campaign against her was ridiculous, sexist, and mostly tin-foil hat stuff. But she lost to Donald Trump, and regardless of how that happened, she needs to just shut the fuck up and disappear for a while. 

Also, moar Tulsi bikini pics?

[bad_teammate 13226]

21 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

C'mon man, Jill Stein didn't get seated at a table with Vladimir Putin by accident.

She wasn't. Putin was seated at a separate table and went from table to table to talk to people. He came to her table to talk with Flynn and never really talked to Stein. Watch.

Quote

But I certainly think her campaign could have been influenced by Russian intelligence.

The Green Party? Dude, come on. How deep does this McCarthyism run?

Quote

Maybe she was just a useful idiot, maybe the Russians weren't successful at infiltrating her campaign like they were Trump's, but she furthered their purposes regardless.

So everyone who furthers a purpose of the Russian state is a "useful idiot"? Or is it just the ones MSNBC and Hillary are mad at?

20 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Do you see Harris and Warren's meet and greets with Bibi as identical to Gabbard's associations with, say, Assad?

Worse. We are actively funding Israel's ethnic cleansing of Palestinians and protecting it in the UN.

17 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

No, it makes her an incompetent politician. But we already knew that about her. After all, she lost an election to Donald Trump.

Ah, so if Hillary is unknowingly furthering Russia's ends, it's innocent.

If Gabbard is doing it, it's nefarious.

Gotcha lol

[BrickHorn 18292]

2 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Isn't it possible that this hot chick is crazy and a bad democratic candidate, and also that Hillary Clinton should shut the fuck up? Hillary wasn't my primary vote but she damn sure was my vote in the general. The 30 year smear campaign against her was ridiculous, sexist, and mostly tin-foil hat stuff. But she lost to Donald Trump, and regardless of how that happened, she needs to just shut the fuck up and disappear for a while. 

Also, moar Tulsi bikini pics?

Sure, that’s possible.  I had a similar reaction initially.

Then it occurred to me: Hillary was right about Trump.  Everyone thought she was nuts then, but she was 100% right.  We ignored her at our peril.  

I may not like her, but she’s a career politician and a former First Lady and Secretary of State.  So maybe, just maybe, she’s pretty fucking smart and has good sources on and insight into foreign policy.  

[bad_teammate 13226]

2 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

Then it occurred to me: Hillary was right about Trump.  Everyone thought she was nuts then, but she was 100% right.  We ignored her at our peril.

What fucking planet do you live on?

['stache 21892]

6 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

Sure, that’s possible.  I had a similar reaction initially.

Then it occurred to me: Hillary was right about Trump.  Everyone thought she was nuts then, but she was 100% right.  We ignored her at our peril.  

I may not like her, but she’s a career politician and a former First Lady and Secretary of State.  So maybe, just maybe, she’s pretty fucking smart and has good sources on and insight into foreign policy.  

Really? I don't think that is the case at all. Everyone with a working brain knew Trump was a fraud, a conman, a sexist, a moron, and everything else that has predictably manifested itself over the last 3 years. But 63 million morons still voted for him, some of them because "that Bitch Hillary" and something about murder. Those idiots were brainwashed from the start and there was no real need to keep stating the obvious, they they were truly deplorable people. I think a campaign could have been run a lot better in a few key states to bring a few more voters to the poll to swing her way. But like all democrats seem to be doing these days, "reaching across the aisle" to these cultists isn't going to work. Swaying trumpkins (i.e. republicans) to your side will never work in todays environment. The key for the democrats is to get non voters to the polls because more of them have a modicum of common sense and aren't falling for the dotards lies and tin foil crap.

Edited October 25, 2019 by 'stache