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This offense sucks and there's no excuse

BigHorn'13

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Dark Horse

Dark Horse 2263

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You guys do remember when GDGD/MB offenses regularly put up 40-60 points on KU and similar teams and then wilted against more sentient competition?
That's kind of what we've got going on here.
And it may have similar origins in that it's some sort of satanic compromise between the HC and the OC.

It’s harder to score against good defenses? Well fuck me, you may be on to something.
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TheMailBox357

TheMailBox357 213

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On 10/20/2019 at 11:14 PM, TheMailBox357 said:

Has anyone mentioned in thread that a big problem with the offense is that Herman's passing game is literally GDGD's passing game?

For anyone that doubts that Herman's passing game is the problem, as yourself this, Why does Shane Buechele look way better at SMU under Sonny Dykes's Air Raid passing game than he ever did in 2 seasons under Herman's inherited greg davis passing game? Shane went from look like a jag under Herman  to an All-American at SMU.

Edited by TheMailBox357
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Pam Cummings

Pam Cummings 9586

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5 hours ago, TheMailBox357 said:

For anyone that doubts that Herman's passing game is the problem, as yourself this, Why does Shane Buechele look way better at SMU under Sonny Dykes's Air Raid passing game than he ever did in 2 seasons under Herman's inherited greg davis passing game? Shane went from look like a jag under Herman  to an All-American at SMU.

I wonder if their fanbase wanted to fire everyone after they almost lost to FUCKING TULSA.

 

JFC this board is so fucking stupid.

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Steamboat1874

Steamboat1874 4032

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5 hours ago, TheMailBox357 said:

For anyone that doubts that Herman's passing game is the problem, as yourself this, Why does Shane Buechele look way better at SMU under Sonny Dykes's Air Raid passing game than he ever did in 2 seasons under Herman's inherited greg davis passing game? Shane went from look like a jag under Herman  to an All-American at SMU.

Could it be he is playing a bunch of shitty teams????

Dumb fuck.

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NoName

NoName 16312

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5 hours ago, TheMailBox357 said:

For anyone that doubts that Herman's passing game is the problem, as yourself this, Why does Shane Buechele look way better at SMU under Sonny Dykes's Air Raid passing game than he ever did in 2 seasons under Herman's inherited greg davis passing game? Shane went from look like a jag under Herman  to an All-American at SMU.

do...do you really not understand the difference between the Herman style of offensive scheme (run focused spread) and the Sonny Dykes ("bear raid" is what he called it at Cal) at style of offensive scheme?

Buechele was a pretty dang good Veer & Shoot QB, Buechele was not exactly a good match for Herman's style of offense. Buechele is much better matched to the Air Raid style of offense that he runs there...

fit is extremely important with QBs, no one should have to tell you this...also it is different when you are playing Temple, Texas State and Tulsa vs OU, Iowa State, LSU

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BigHorn'13

BigHorn'13 3356

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10 hours ago, GringoSalado said:

Apologies for being late to this thread.

 

By chance is OP a Cowboys fan?

Negative ghostwriter. 

 

 

I liked Herman's answer to the first question at the ~1:37 mark. Gives me a little hope he sees what I see. No one is saying the defense isn't a problem. 

 

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Knoxtnhorn

Knoxtnhorn 5936

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My son's U-7 flag football team has an offensive coordinator and runs pass plays 1/2 the time (successfully).  I don't understand why Texas has to keep trotting out this bullshit, run, pass, run, offense over and over considering the wealth of talent/passing/creativity in this state.

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BigHorn'13

BigHorn'13 3356

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The saddest part of today was they broke some tendencies. 

The biggest 2 that have not been broken as of yet, in my opinion, is 11 personnel and abandoning the run.

Again, we have 7 coaches and a bunch of analysts and GAs. At least you could make the argument (albeit, not valid) that the defense has 4 coaches and a bunch of injuries. What's the excuse on offense?

Let me break another narrative we've adopted--Herb Hand just might not be all that great of a coach. No reason why this OL should look the way they do. 

It's criminal how we're wasting Sam and the position he's been in the past month. 

But hey, I bet we're still a TOP 10 OFFENSE ASSHOLE!!!1

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31305

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56 minutes ago, BigHorn'13 said:

The saddest part of today was they broke some tendencies. 

The biggest 2 that have not been broken as of yet, in my opinion, is 11 personnel and abandoning the run.

Again, we have 7 coaches and a bunch of analysts and GAs. At least you could make the argument (albeit, not valid) that the defense has 4 coaches and a bunch of injuries. What's the excuse on offense?

Let me break another narrative we've adopted--Herb Hand just might not be all that great of a coach. No reason why this OL should look the way they do. 

It's criminal how we're wasting Sam and the position he's been in the past month. 

But hey, I bet we're still a TOP 10 OFFENSE ASSHOLE!!!1

Well, Hand coincided with an upgrade in OL play last year.  Now it's gone to shit.  What's the explanation there?

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Auto Driller

Auto Driller 2504

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1 hour ago, BigHorn'13 said:

The saddest part of today was they broke some tendencies. 

The biggest 2 that have not been broken as of yet, in my opinion, is 11 personnel and abandoning the run.

Again, we have 7 coaches and a bunch of analysts and GAs. At least you could make the argument (albeit, not valid) that the defense has 4 coaches and a bunch of injuries. What's the excuse on offense?

Let me break another narrative we've adopted--Herb Hand just might not be all that great of a coach. No reason why this OL should look the way they do. 

It's criminal how we're wasting Sam and the position he's been in the past month. 

But hey, I bet we're still a TOP 10 OFFENSE ASSHOLE!!!1

One of the most infuriating aspects of coaches is their insistence on winning using their “system”.

Face it Tom - we don’t have an above average tight end on the roster. We don’t even have an average one. When you stubbornly use 11 personnel on every play, not only are you allowing the defense to effectively ignore one of your receivers and double someone else, you’re also sending a message to the players that getting the best players on the field isn’t the priority.

Have we had two RB on the field at the same time for even a single play this year? I don’t think so and we might be one of the only teams to have done so.

Break some fucking tendencies. Do something unexpected.

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TwiceHorn

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1 minute ago, Auto Driller said:

One of the most infuriating aspects of coaches is their insistence on winning using their “system”.

Face it Tom - we don’t have an above average tight end on the roster. We don’t even have an average one. When you stubbornly use 11 personnel on every play, not only are you allowing the defense to effectively ignore one of your receivers and double someone else, you’re also sending a message to the players that getting the best players on the field isn’t the priority.

Have we had two RB on the field at the same time for even a single play this year? I don’t think so and we might be one of the only teams to have done so.

Break some fucking tendencies. Do something unexpected.

Agreed.  Herman doesn't have enough hair on his balls as a coach to be a system dilettante.  Probably a bad idea regardless of the hirsuteness of your scrote.

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BigHorn'13

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16 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, Hand coincided with an upgrade in OL play last year.  Now it's gone to shit.  What's the explanation there?

What I suggested. He may not be all that great of a coach. You think last year's line was better talent wise than this? Should've had the best line in the conference yet teams like Kansas know if you stunt or slant, our strength turns to a weakness. 

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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14491

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This offense is awful unless Sam is running the ball 15+ times a game. Too much of the running game is predicated on his threat. The passing game is a mess with the same 2-3 concepts and WRs that have trouble getting off the LOS. Everything that those La Tech DBs said about the WRs is true. Film don't lie. What's worse is the coaching is so bad these kids aren't getting better at the simple fundamentals. I knew the running game was in trouble when Rice was shutting things down easily. The OL is over rated, with the middle consistently confused with simple stunts. We are starting to see why Braun wanted to RS. I can't believe there isn't anyone else to replace Angilau with at RG. He has struggled a lot since WVU.

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Atticus

Atticus 3923

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41 minutes ago, Auto Driller said:

One of the most infuriating aspects of coaches is their insistence on winning using their “system”.

Face it Tom - we don’t have an above average tight end on the roster. We don’t even have an average one. When you stubbornly use 11 personnel on every play, not only are you allowing the defense to effectively ignore one of your receivers and double someone else, you’re also sending a message to the players that getting the best players on the field isn’t the priority.

Have we had two RB on the field at the same time for even a single play this year? I don’t think so and we might be one of the only teams to have done so.

Break some fucking tendencies. Do something unexpected.

Whittington and Ingram were on the field at the same time a few times during the LaTech game.

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El Hornarino

El Hornarino 370

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On 10/26/2019 at 7:57 PM, BigHorn'13 said:

The saddest part of today was they broke some tendencies. 

The biggest 2 that have not been broken as of yet, in my opinion, is 11 personnel and abandoning the run.

Again, we have 7 coaches and a bunch of analysts and GAs. At least you could make the argument (albeit, not valid) that the defense has 4 coaches and a bunch of injuries. What's the excuse on offense?

Let me break another narrative we've adopted--Herb Hand just might not be all that great of a coach. No reason why this OL should look the way they do. 

It's criminal how we're wasting Sam and the position he's been in the past month. 

But hey, I bet we're still a TOP 10 OFFENSE ASSHOLE!!!1

*shrug*  and yet Hand might be one of the best position coaches on the team, that is the best part.

Your thread title still doesn't entirely follow from your criticisms.  Or maybe it does, but you just need to clarify your suckitude scale with the descriptors for the defense and special teams.

The whole team is undercoached, but this shouldn't be a surprise with the "dream team" staff Herman assembled after he was hired, and then retained.

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Rockethorn1978

Rockethorn1978 6061

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The part that I don't get on here is people saying Herman should replace the OC with a "air raid" guy. Do people here not know that this offense is Herman power spread? The offense isn't changing until herman is gone. Maybe the OC will change but what we run will not, it would be like asking Strong to change his defense to something completely different when he was here.

The only thing that will change is if he gets a new DC and runs a 4-3 scheme. The Offense isn't changing from a power spread that won Him a NC at Ohio St to a air raid system he doesn't run.

I don't even like the offense right now but I can still be objective and realize we have to live in reality of what MIGHT happen at seasons end. If he changes the OC he needs to get one that knows his system and will have some creativity in mixing up the calls.

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BigHorn'13

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2 hours ago, El Hornarino said:

Your thread title still doesn't entirely follow from your criticisms.  Or maybe it does, but you just need to clarify your suckitude scale with the descriptors for the defense and special teams.

If you're asking for a comparison between the offense and the rest of the team, sure, they're better. Don't think it means dick but whatever. 

I've acknowledged at least twice in this thread the suckitude of the defense. No breaking news there and plenty of other threads to beat that horse. The purpose of this thread was to get others to acknowledge the shortcomings of the offense and the impact it's having. Admittedly, the final score of the KU game diluted my argument somewhat but here we are today. 

1 hour ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

The part that I don't get on here is people saying Herman should replace the OC with a "air raid" guy. Do people here not know that this offense is Herman power spread? The offense isn't changing until herman is gone. Maybe the OC will change but what we run will not, it would be like asking Strong to change his defense to something completely different when he was here.

The only thing that will change is if he gets a new DC and runs a 4-3 scheme. The Offense isn't changing from a power spread that won Him a NC at Ohio St to a air raid system he doesn't run.

I don't even like the offense right now but I can still be objective and realize we have to live in reality of what MIGHT happen at seasons end. If he changes the OC he needs to get one that knows his system and will have some creativity in mixing up the calls.

I haven't advocated for the air raid because I haven't seen a defense that can match productivity. Then there's the issue of clashing philosophies as well as who the replacement is. Herman's offense can work in this conference but it needs to adapt. And there were signs of it Saturday. In particular, resetting the formation before damn near every snap. But...

It's still 99.999% 11 personnel (Leitao being on the field was an ultimate "fuck you, I know what I'm doing" imo)

Our OL, for whatever reason, has regressed.

We abandon the run game for no reason. 

My personal pet peeve-- passing situation on 3rd down? The ball will go to Duvernay (or Smith when he's in) guaranteed. If I know it, best believe opponents know it. 

 

As for the defense, I'm not even sure where to begin. I think what we're seeing is a combination of teams figuring Orlando out and inexperienced talent. Throw in a genocide of the 2 deep DBs and everyone is pissed off. I get why everyone is begging for a 4-3 scheme but I can see the usefulness in being multiple (which we're not right now.) One thing's for sure, the defense doesn't have any confidence in their play and it shows... especially when the same play is ran 3 times in a row. 

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El Hornarino

El Hornarino 370

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20 minutes ago, BigHorn'13 said:

If you're asking for a comparison between the offense and the rest of the team, sure, they're better. Don't think it means dick but whatever. 

I've acknowledged at least twice in this thread the suckitude of the defense. No breaking news there and plenty of other threads to beat that horse. The purpose of this thread was to get others to acknowledge the shortcomings of the offense and the impact it's having. Admittedly, the final score of the KU game diluted my argument somewhat but here we are today.

Nobody needs a comparison, I thought I would be entertained with adjectives for the other units.

Edited by El Hornarino
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Goodman

Goodman 3273

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On 10/26/2019 at 6:57 PM, BigHorn'13 said:

The saddest part of today was they broke some tendencies. 

The biggest 2 that have not been broken as of yet, in my opinion, is 11 personnel and abandoning the run.

Again, we have 7 coaches and a bunch of analysts and GAs. At least you could make the argument (albeit, not valid) that the defense has 4 coaches and a bunch of injuries. What's the excuse on offense?

Let me break another narrative we've adopted--Herb Hand just might not be all that great of a coach. No reason why this OL should look the way they do. 

It's criminal how we're wasting Sam and the position he's been in the past month. 

But hey, I bet we're still a TOP 10 OFFENSE ASSHOLE!!!1

We are not playing smart fb, we play dumb-meathead fb. Having Junior next to a really dumb fb player at Center is killing the OL.

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BigHorn'13

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29 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

I didn't say you advocated for it I am just saying that IF we do switch OC it will be for someone who runs Herman offense. So who runs this offense we could hire?

That's beyond my scope. I don't pay attention enough to know who'd be a good candidate or not. In some universe, I would think having Herman would mean having him call plays and running the offense with better assistant coaches around him. I don't get the impression that's going to happen tho. 

22 minutes ago, El Hornarino said:

Nobody needs a comparison, I thought I would be entertained with adjectives for the other units.

Ah. Much like the offense, my creativity has died this season. 

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BigHorn'13

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Just now, Goodman said:

We are not playing smart fb, we play dumb-meathead fb. Having Junior next to a really dumb fb player at Center is killing the OL.

Yeah Shack may be a really great person but I can't wait for him to graduate. Junior will be much better by this time next year. Braun has been a breath of fresh air when we run, a stench when we pass. Cosmi has been good. Not sure how much his colleague's play has affected his or if he's injured. Kerstetter looks bad and I'm not sure if it's entirely on him or if he's getting caught supervising junior. The whole thing just looks fucked.

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Goodman

Goodman 3273

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1 minute ago, BigHorn'13 said:

Yeah Shack may be a really great person but I can't wait for him to graduate. Junior will be much better by this time next year. Braun has been a breath of fresh air when we run, a stench when we pass. Cosmi has been good. Not sure how much his colleague's play has affected his or if he's injured. Kerstetter looks bad and I'm not sure if it's entirely on him or if he's getting caught supervising junior. The whole thing just looks fucked.

Derek will be an improvement at Center next year. No way to predict how Junior will develop but if he's flanked by DK and a smart RT he will be fine. Just can't have two OL who are not smart fb players, if you have them next to each other it's even worse as we've seen for years with Vahe-Shack.

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Butch Had Not

Butch Had Not 2940

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28 minutes ago, Snacks said:
On 10/20/2019 at 6:08 PM, Butch Had Not said:
What a world we live in when we average nearly 41 points a game and it is considered shitty.
Can shawn Watson come back to remind us how bad it can be?

Greg Davis averaged 40 for years.... And got a banner flown.

My post didn't age well. 

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Hookah Horns

Hookah Horns 3082

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7 hours ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

The part that I don't get on here is people saying Herman should replace the OC with a "air raid" guy. Do people here not know that this offense is Herman power spread? The offense isn't changing until herman is gone. Maybe the OC will change but what we run will not, it would be like asking Strong to change his defense to something completely different when he was here.

The only thing that will change is if he gets a new DC and runs a 4-3 scheme. The Offense isn't changing from a power spread that won Him a NC at Ohio St to a air raid system he doesn't run.

I don't even like the offense right now but I can still be objective and realize we have to live in reality of what MIGHT happen at seasons end. If he changes the OC he needs to get one that knows his system and will have some creativity in mixing up the calls.

Yep. And he damn sure won't hire an OC who even thinks for one fucking second about taking the TE off the field instead of splitting him out, regardless of position talent level. 

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Tex Long

Tex Long 4349

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It's okay to run every single play all game long, with a TE/HB guy, even splitting him out. It's not okay to do that when the guy is a TE/OL guy.

When the player's role is TE/HB, you expect - no, you demand and coach - him to run proper routes and catch the fucking ball, carry the ball occasionally, and block LBs and DBs and at least get in the way of edge rushers. When he's a TE/OL role player, you expect him to actually block DEs and LBs, occasionally chip them and run seams - you do not split him out unless he's the rare bird who can block and catch.

There aren't very many who can handle all three roles, and until we have one, let us eschew playing the ones we do have as though they were capable. Andrew Beck took a long time to learn them, but he finally got it and he did a decent job his last year. None of the three (?) TE we have can reliably block OL, and most of them don't appear to be able to run routes or catch passes reliably. I have no idea what the fuck they're doing on the field at all, other than letting MensaTom make believe that he's running the power spread he imagines.

 

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BigHorn'13

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Since everyone is making their own threads, just wanted to remind y'all who the triple OL, triple OL triple OG in this muthafucka is. 

Now for some laughs...

On 10/19/2019 at 10:12 PM, Valmy77 said:

Our offensive line has been bad this year at times and we drop too many balls...but beyond that I don't see much to complain about, we score enough points to win.

 

On 10/19/2019 at 10:13 PM, Valmy77 said:

Plays are hardly even called in this RPO era anyway, I don't find your arguement convincing...I mean the offense has a ways to go to be among the very elite but I don't think playcalling is the problem.

tenor.gif

On 10/19/2019 at 10:14 PM, UDontKnow said:

Image result for Bruh meme

tenor.gif

 

On 10/20/2019 at 9:10 AM, GTX Horn said:

Heck our offense is the only thing that’s currently keeping this from devolving into 2015-2016 levels of shittiness

 

On 10/20/2019 at 9:17 AM, Mileslong said:


Texas is ninth in the country in scoring average, ergo STFU

 

On 10/20/2019 at 9:20 AM, Mileslong said:


I forgot the QB doesn’t count in offensive stats, better go back and back out all of VY running yards, that 2005 offense doesn’t like that great then emoji53.png

giphy.gif

On 10/20/2019 at 9:43 AM, MonkeyDoughnut said:

You have to be really young to think THIS offense sucks.  Its very frustrating and could/should be better that what's shown but it does not suck.

source.gif

 

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