Next Texas Coach

[scottsins 1966]

That depends. Do said thugs and murderers know how to tackle? 

We know how to tackle, but we are never in the correct position/leverage to actually make a tackle.
In order to “square up”, you have to be there first. This is the Diaz syndrome all over again. Make some differential EQ based scheme with fancy alignments, etc. By the time the defender calculates where he’s supposed to be, it’s too late, the angle sucks and flailing arm tackles are all that’s left.

Gerg turned that shit around quickly by dumbing it down and just letting guys play football instead of a ton of thought required first.

It’s not like Gerg just made them use tackling dummies for more reps every practice.

We also saw the same thing with strong, which was also greatly improved once we simplified the scheme.

[scottsins 1966]

he was never going to be stopped in bounds unless he just stopped and waited to be tackled, cb was not close and if he was Sam throws it away. Dallas did the same thing last night with 9 seconds left and Dak threw it away, teams do it all the time. 

I’ve come around on this now. I guess my only remaining question is whether it would have been better to leave it as a 38 yard FG and just call the timeout with :02 left or do what we did. I’m seriously asking because I can see reasons for either option.

[Tex Long 4400]

12 hours ago, Apex73 said:

wandering aimlessly in the dessert

Congratulations. Most new folks take at least a hundred posts before coming up with something surlworthy. 

To be fair, it's probably more due to Otto Korekt than native cleverness, or else the wandering would likely be done armlessly... bur Congratulations are still due: almost a motto.

EDIT:  wandering armlessly in the dessert summons visions of being face down in the chocolate cream pie, for me. Pecan's too firm (as is flan) and ice cream not really relevant in the Fall.

EDITEDIT: feel free to argue merits of flan consistency. 

Edited October 21, 2019 by Tex Long

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

1 hour ago, Michael Knight said:

Nick Saban

Simultaneously??

[DixonHur 11307]

1 hour ago, Pig Bellmont said:

I’m honestly fine with the offense outside of the OU game this year where our OL was atrocious. The entire defensive staff needs to go. Let’s offer Wisconsin or Clemson’s DC for $1-2mm. Hell, I’d take Utah’s DC

Venables isn't going anywhere unless it's for a HC job.  Leonhard is interesting, but has no real experience against the spread offense.

I think we need someone who has shown they can stop...er, I mean, slow down Big 12 style offenses.  I don't know who that is off the top of my head, but I think we need to go with a young gun from outside the Power 5. 

[Gene Parmesan 4007]

16 minutes ago, Liquor and Poker said:

Simultaneously??

That's pretty specific.  I doubt anything fits that.  Also Saban and Meyer were already NC winning coaches when they fired coordinators.  Dabo at Clemson is probably the best example of  long game program build which is clearly what we are looking at, as this program still has major flaws in year 3.  

[Ricky Butler 2723]

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

I'm fine with the offense on paper, but there are way too many times when we have to move the ball that it becomes predictable.  We have the talent to blow teams off the ball - something we are still incapable of doing consistently.  

I get a little frustration, but if we look at the trend line since Herman got here, how are we not happy?

[BabaYaga 15299]

3 minutes ago, Ricky Butler said:

I get a little frustration, but if we look at the trend line since Herman got here, how are we not happy?

Happy is not having a puckered asshole, shaking like a goddamn dog trying to pass a peach seed with 8 seconds left in the game against fucking Kansas!

[Ricky Butler 2723]

5 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Happy is not having a puckered asshole, shaking like a goddamn dog trying to pass a peach seed with 8 seconds left in the game against fucking Kansas!

I meant happy about the offense. Yeah, that game was shit. 

[Dbeasy 15051]

Herman’s win loss record to date has been about as good as can be expected. For that reason, no one should be taking about firing him right now. That is stupid, reactionary surly thrusting forward with dumbass premature viewpoints. But, that’s what surly always does.

What is fair is to question some of his decisions to date on OC, WR, TE, DL, DB DC choices because every one of them has questions about either recruiting or coaching performance. It’s also fair to criticize the team for how bad they’ve looked defensively this year. How he handles these issues and how that translates to on-field performance for the rest of this year and next year will determine whether he can get the job done at Texas.

OU made two great hires in a row with Stoops and Riley. It is what it is.

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

23 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

That's pretty specific.  I doubt anything fits that.  Also Saban and Meyer were already NC winning coaches when they fired coordinators.  Dabo at Clemson is probably the best example of  long game program build which is clearly what we are looking at, as this program still has major flaws in year 3.  

Yeah, I get that.  I guess a better way to put it is this: I get that coaches have been fine after firing a DC or an OC here and there, and that DCs and OCs come and go voluntarily from the best programs as they get other gigs, so it's not uncommon to be like Saban and go through a series of them over your reign.  But has an ultimately successful coach ever fired both the OC and the DC he came in the door with?

[Goodman 3273]

16 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Happy is not having a puckered asshole, shaking like a goddamn dog trying to pass a peach seed with 8 seconds left in the game against fucking Kansas!

Ain't this the goddamn truth.

Our section was a mess.

What I'm most surprised and disappointed in with Coach Herman so far is that we coach & play like a dumb fb team. One thing I expected for some odd reason upon his hire was that we would have a smart staff and it would lead to playing like a smart fb team. That is not the case and injuries/experience can not take the blame.

[DixonHur 11307]

5 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Herman’s win loss record to date has been about as good as can be expected. For that reason, no one should be taking about firing him right now. That is stupid, reactionary surly thrusting forward with dumbass premature viewpoints. But, that’s what surly always does.

What is fair is to question some of his decisions to date on OC, WR, TE, DL, DB DC choices because every one of them has questions about either recruiting or coaching performance. It’s also fair to criticize the team for how bad they’ve looked defensively this year. How he handles these issues and how that translates to on-field performance for the rest of this year and next year will determine whether he can get the job done at Texas.

OU made two great hires in a row with Stoops and Riley. It is what it is.

Don't remind me.  I was on the Stoops train when we hired Mack.

 

[Ricky Butler 2723]

31 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Don't remind me.  I was on the Stoops train when we hired Mack.

 

Don't remind me. I'm on record telling people to hire Nick Saban with Urban Meyer as offensive coordinator.

[Gene Parmesan 4007]

38 minutes ago, Liquor and Poker said:

Yeah, I get that.  I guess a better way to put it is this: I get that coaches have been fine after firing a DC or an OC here and there, and that DCs and OCs come and go voluntarily from the best programs as they get other gigs, so it's not uncommon to be like Saban and go through a series of them over your reign.  But has an ultimately successful coach ever fired both the OC and the DC he came in the door with?

If by ultimately successful you mean winning a NC, I don't think so, at least not recently.  I agree with your overall premise that this is major red flag with Herman vs a common hurdle.  It also doesn't help that his main competition in Riley/OU are way ahead of the curve. 

[gmr548 16580]

I’m honestly fine with the offense outside of the OU game this year where our OL was atrocious. The entire defensive staff needs to go. Let’s offer Wisconsin or Clemson’s DC for $1-2mm. Hell, I’d take Utah’s DC

You don't want Wisconsin's DC. Texas needs someone well versed in containing the kind of offenses and skill position talent they play week in and week out.

Venables is unattainable.

Utah's defense is Kyle Whitingham's system. Also, their DC was an All American safety at Utah under Whitingham and has been there his entire career. So he probably knows the system well but he's obviously not going anywhere.

I'm pretty much at the point of no return with Orlando but it's not as easy as it seems to hit a home run with a coordinator hire.



Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Gene Parmesan 4007]

Is there a DC out that that doesn't routinely look foolish against Big12 offenses? 

[gmr548 16580]

I get a little frustration, but if we look at the trend line since Herman got here, how are we not happy?

Because it's starting to look like a 2018 type season is the best the current staff is capable of.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

2 hours ago, Tex Long said:

EDITEDIT: feel free to argue merits of flan consistency. 

Flan sucks, though flan flavored ice cream can be pretty good.

I mention this because I have nothing relevant to say about the future of Texas football, apart from Adonai, how long?

[NeverMarryAStripper 21907]

I'm pretty much at the point of no return with Orlando but it's not as easy as it seems to hit a home run with a coordinator hire.

Lutz at wanting a home run, at this point I’d settle for anything that wasn’t a complete whiff.

[hornhorn 100]

3 hours ago, Pig Bellmont said:

I’m honestly fine with the offense outside of the OU game this year where our OL was atrocious. The entire defensive staff needs to go. Let’s offer Wisconsin or Clemson’s DC for $1-2mm. Hell, I’d take Utah’s DC

So you want Brent Venables to take a pay cut to coach at Texas? He already makes $2 million a year at Clemson.

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

17 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

If by ultimately successful you mean winning a NC, I don't think so, at least not recently.  I agree with your overall premise that this is major red flag with Herman vs a common hurdle.  It also doesn't help that his main competition in Riley/OU are way ahead of the curve. 

Right.  To me, saying "I like Herman, but let's cycle through DCs and OCs (and OL coaches, and DB coaches, etc.) until it all clicks" is facially inconsistent.  The HC is the package he brings.

[BabaYaga 15299]

19 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

It also doesn't help that his main competition in Riley/OU are way ahead of the curve. 

It's fucking sad that we have to wish on the possibility of an NFL team hiring Riley away before we can have conference championship aspirations.  

[C-Man 27230]

3 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Lulz.  The notion of defending a Herman playcall with a Garrett playcall  . . . . 

It's silly. If the Cowboys fuck that sequence up they head to the locker room up 24-7 instead of 27-7. They were also setting up an unlikely 63-yard kick (well, unlikely for kickers not named Brett Maher). If the Horns mess up that sequence, we lose 48-47.

3 hours ago, Pig Bellmont said:

I’m honestly fine with the offense outside of the OU game this year where our OL was atrocious. The entire defensive staff needs to go. Let’s offer Wisconsin or Clemson’s DC for $1-2mm. Hell, I’d take Utah’s DC

Brent Venables makes close to $2M/annually and isn't leaving Clemson for any other DC job. I'm not sure he even cares about being a HC.

2 hours ago, scottsins said:

 

I’ve come around on this now. I guess my only remaining question is whether it would have been better to leave it as a 38 yard FG and just call the timeout with :02 left or do what we did. I’m seriously asking because I can see reasons for either option.

 

I was nervy enough to want the extra yards for Dicker. Of course you only run that IF you pound it into Sam's head that if Duvernay is not wide-open and standing by himself on the sideline you airmail it into the out-of-bounds territory. (Gives me flashbacks to Colt's final INC against Nebraska in the 2009 Big 12 Championship Game.)

[Gene Parmesan 4007]

14 minutes ago, Liquor and Poker said:

Right.  To me, saying "I like Herman, but let's cycle through DCs and OCs (and OL coaches, and DB coaches, etc.) until it all clicks" is facially inconsistent.  The HC is the package he brings.

I agree but it's basically the mental gymnastics we have to play because Herman not being an elite coach doesn't mean he's a shitty coach.  It's a lot easier to fire a shitty coach than a coach that can win 10 games a year. 

[Ricky Butler 2723]

24 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

Because it's starting to look like a 2018 type season is the best the current staff is capable of.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 

I was talking about the offense.

But I disagree with your premise. Herman has shown a lot of competency in modern program building. Late Mack and Charlie didn't. But if Herman refuses or screws up reshaping his staff, then I'll be right there with you.

[gmr548 16580]

Deleted double post.

 

 

 

[gmr548 16580]

I was talking about the offense.
But I disagree with your premise. Herman has shown a lot of competency in modern program building. Late Mack and Charlie didn't. But if Herman refuses or screws up reshaping his staff, then I'll be right there with you.

Better than atrocious is a low bar and does not necessarialy mean he's really good. The incompetence he's allowed to foster on one side of the ball is really starting to rear its head. How he addresses that will ultimately be what defines his ability to manage a program and his tenure at Texas.

I'm with you on reserving judgment on Herman until the off season or even after next year though. I'm nowhere near the fire Tom Herman crowd on this board. Texas is 5-2, probably about to be 6-2, and is going to win 9-10 games this year. It's a long way from 2017 and he deserves credit for that. But it's also becoming more and more clear that Texas will not win the B12 with Orlando and crew running the defense unless Lincoln Riley decides he wants to coach the Cowboys and OU makes a terrible hire. The current staff has hit its ceiling.

For all the good qualities he's shown, Herman has also shown to be stubborn to the point in taking pride in it. I can see why people would think he'll ignore the writing on the wall. We'll see.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[closetohumping 17442]

The playcall at 8 seconds was fine.  As I stated before,  7 seconds is the cutoff point.

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

1 hour ago, Michael Knight said:

Nick Saban

Simultaneously??

[Doc Sam Beckett 5793]

3 hours ago, Liquor and Poker said:

Yeah, I get that.  I guess a better way to put it is this: I get that coaches have been fine after firing a DC or an OC here and there, and that DCs and OCs come and go voluntarily from the best programs as they get other gigs, so it's not uncommon to be like Saban and go through a series of them over your reign.  But has an ultimately successful coach ever fired both the OC and the DC he came in the door with?

 

Dabo took over mid-season, and at the end of that interem season he replaced Rob Spence as OC and Vic Koening as DC with Billy Napier and Kevin Steele. Napier made it two seasons and was replaced with Chad Morris. Steele made it three seasons and was replaced with Venables. I think that's the closest example that you are going to get. Also, in my opinion, Napier almost cost Dabo his job. 

 

4 hours ago, DixonHur said:

Venables isn't going anywhere unless it's for a HC job.  Leonhard is interesting, but has no real experience against the spread offense.

I think we need someone who has shown they can stop...er, I mean, slow down Big 12 style offenses.  I don't know who that is off the top of my head, but I think we need to go with a young gun from outside the Power 5. 

 

Tellin ya, I really like this Jay Bateman guy. It's hard to evaluate him completely as his teams aren't packed with a ton of talent, but his game plan against Clemson was really good, and Army did well against Oklahoma last year as well, so he knows how to scheme. 

[Luka Skywalker 152]

On 10/20/2019 at 3:09 PM, theaveragejon said:

Fuck Lincoln Riley. Nobody has fallen ass backwards into fortuitous shit than he has. Just one thing; when was the last time that OU actually recruited a QB and developed them for four years. 

They'll probably still be good with the QBs they are recruiting are ranked high. But still. 

This is just dumb. Lincoln Riley is a damn good coach and we would be ecstatic if he was ours. 

[Horn Dog 9867]

2 hours ago, Luka Skywalker said:

This is just dumb. Lincoln Riley is a damn good coach and we would be ecstatic if he was ours. 

Agree.  I'd suck the egg out a chicken to have Lincoln Riley as our coach

[Brandywine 1316]

When we hired Herman I thought we were getting a Lincoln type of guy. I was wrong. 

[Reagan1k 3024]

This team cannot play complementary football right now because of the defense and it shows in both special teams (not risking any thing on punts) and risky play calling on offense.  Many of Herman’s baffling (to some) gambles on offense are a direct result of him being terrified to put the defense back on their field.

Make the D pedestrian instead of looking like a chaotic fire drill and the offense will settle down all of a sudden and Herman won’t have to try and  flex his neurons as often. 

[Brothahorn 10087]

When we hired Herman I thought we were getting a Lincoln type of guy. I was wrong. 

We thought we were getting a classic Lincoln Continental. Instead we got a shitty Lincoln LS.

[TwiceHorn 31483]

11 minutes ago, Brandywine said:

When we hired Herman I thought we were getting a Lincoln type of guy. I was wrong. 

To be fair to Herman, Riley got a plug-n-play team and staff that he already knew pretty well, including its red-headed stepchild.  He didn't have to worry about team culture, or buy-in, or resentment of him over Bobby.

That's not to take away from his coaching acumen, but he didn't have to build a staff or start recruiting players (or deal with what seemed to be a still-broken culture and a lot of resentment from the prior coaches players).

[TwiceHorn 31483]

7 hours ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Is there a DC out that that doesn't routinely look foolish against Big12 offenses? 

What's funny is, the best way to not look foolish against B12 offenses seems to be a) resist installation of gimmicks and b) play solid fundamental defense.  Having actually coached in the B12 or against similar offenses seems to be key to understanding this.

[markstanco 12577]

Who are the top five DCs? We can afford the paycheck, the problem is Herman will probably not pull the trigger in Orlando this year. 

I dont see CDC putting his foot down on coaching changes this year. Next year, yes.

[Brothahorn 10087]

To be fair to Herman, Riley got a plug-n-play team and staff that he already knew pretty well, including its red-headed stepchild.  He didn't have to worry about team culture, or buy-in, or resentment of him over Bobby.
That's not to take away from his coaching acumen, but he didn't have to build a staff or start recruiting players (or deal with what seemed to be a still-broken culture and a lot of resentment from the prior coaches players).

Fair point. I could have countered with Herman’s tutelage under Myer and 2 years of HC experience. But so far that hasn’t helped.

[markstanco 12577]

That's pretty specific.  I doubt anything fits that.  Also Saban and Meyer were already NC winning coaches when they fired coordinators.  Dabo at Clemson is probably the best example of  long game program build which is clearly what we are looking at, as this program still has major flaws in year 3.  

Dabo was 6-6 in year 3.

[markstanco 12577]

 
and Army did well against Oklahoma last year as well, so he knows how to scheme. 

His defense only had to play for 15 minutes against oklahoma last year. Not the best example.

[The Earl of Texas 3132]

I think it’s both ways.

A lot of y’all underestimate how bad we were coming off Strong’s inheritance and further bungling of Mack’s disaster.

And we should be better in year three. 

[LTtxfan 49195]

34 minutes ago, markstanco said:

11 hours ago, Pig Bellmont said:

 

I dont see CDC putting his foot down on coaching changes this year. Next year, yes.

Depends on results of next 5 games.  But regardless of the outcome, Orlando still might need to go...   Think about how much Baylor has improved over the last 2yrs and developed their defense vs Orlando and Texas...  THIS SUCKS!!!

Edited October 22, 2019 by LTtxfan

[markstanco 12577]

Depends on results of next 5 games.  But regardless of the outcome, Orlando still might need to go...   Think about how much Baylor has improved over the last 2yrs and developed their defense vs Orlando and Texas...  THIS SUCKS!!!

1000% agree.

I see teams like your example of Baylor and how far they have come and shake my head with MUCH lesser talent.

[El Squared 1802]

11 hours ago, Goodman said:

I disagree, Herman's loyalty lasts two years as it's part of the hiring agreement. He failed when he allowed the Sugar Bowl to disrupt his plan, we should of turned over 2-3 coaches last offseason with another 2 this year. Now he is in a position where 2-3 changes leave us with another 2-3 coaches here for another year that should also be gone. 

Get a real ST coach.

Retain quality analysts for Defense. Don't waste another offseason. 

No need to get into the weeds about the problems on defense.

TH is the captain of the ship, if his highly paid DC cannot or will not do the job , that’s it. It’s business.Other, more successful, captains get it. If he doesn’t then he shouldn’t be captain. He is compensated insanely well to make decisions that might make his buddies uncomfortable. Sorry, that’s the job. If you cannot handle that, move on. I don’t think though he will make a move until the ship goes under. Hope I’m wrong, but we have seen this happen and it’s ridiculous. The program should be  his #1,2,3 priority. That’s what he is paid for, he is not being paid to be a placeholder or a TH cult leader.

Edited October 22, 2019 by El Squared

[El Squared 1802]

24 minutes ago, markstanco said:

1000% agree.

I see teams like your example of Baylor and how far they have come and shake my head with MUCH lesser talent.

What else needs to be said? Do you wait until the team goes 5-7 or 6-6 ? 

How much more evidence do you need?

[Gravy Train 974]

25 minutes ago, markstanco said:

1000% agree.

I see teams like your example of Baylor and how far they have come and shake my head with MUCH lesser talent.

I think most have respected Phil Snow's tenures and he shows you don't need a lot of flash and youth to produce a talented defense.  Hell, just this past weekend in Stillwater, he turned Sophomore Terrel Bernard into the conference Defensive Player of the Week, a former WLB who was moved to ILB when Clay Johnston went down.  In that game, he tallied 9 tackles (5 solo), a fumble recovery and TD.

[TwiceHorn 31483]

1 hour ago, Brothahorn said:

 

Fair point. I could have countered with Herman’s tutelage under Myer and 2 years of HC experience. But so far that hasn’t helped.

 

Also occurs to me that not only did he benefit from Bob's tutelage, he got a first-hand lesson in what overweening loyalty and nepotism can do to an otherwise championship-caliber team.

[Treefidy 1463]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

To be fair to Herman, Riley got a plug-n-play team and staff that he already knew pretty well, including its red-headed stepchild.  He didn't have to worry about team culture, or buy-in, or resentment of him over Bobby.

That's not to take away from his coaching acumen, but he didn't have to build a staff or start recruiting players (or deal with what seemed to be a still-broken culture and a lot of resentment from the prior coaches players).

Good points, tough trying to get players to buy in to a new staff and system with loyalties to the fired coach, then mass exodus of real talent that might have stayed another year. 

fOSU and OU both had very competent replacements who kept the engine humming.   It's a double edged sword to get great assistants who aspire up, but it's absolutely necessary.  And assistant hires is job 1b for a head coach   

Not that TH is going anywhere, but we don't have anyone on staff I would consider competent to replace him if he had to leave for any reason.   You could give the keys to the program to Fedora but he would wrap it around a tree at 40mph.  Beaty would roll over into a ditch and drown backing out of the driveway.  Most of our assistants couldn't find the car parked in the driveway.