Fresno police shoot 16 year old running away - call it justified

[immortal13 4,059]

55 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:

Maybe we are taking about two different things. If the cop has his weapon out already, yes I feel like he probably should identify a weapon before hitting R1.

Anyone that wants the cop to keep his weapon holstered until he has identified a weapon being pulled is a fool and loves in a dream world. As long as they can show videos of cops getting shot because of those similar things, it’s not going to happen.

I never said anything about holstered or unholstered. I'm talking about using deadly force. In my opinion, a weapon should have to be seen by the officer

[Continental Op 3,934]

yeah my life sucks. how's yours?

He's so scared of life he goes running with a piece tucked in his waistband.

[ztejas 44,114]

I think what this thread is missing is a hearty questioning of why this kid was hopping over fences with the cops chasing him. You don't do that if you're innocent. You likely don't do that even if you are guilty of something minor. 

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

A murder suspect running away getting shot doesn’t bother me one bit.  

[ztejas 44,114]

16 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

A murder suspect running away getting shot doesn’t bother me one bit.  

Saves the state money too. 

[Armybrat 41,322]

16 hours ago, Continental Op said:

On 10/26/2019 at 12:05 AM, NorthLoop said:

yeah my life sucks. how's yours?

He's so scared of life he goes running with a piece tucked in his waistband.

Says the guy who would strongly wish he had one to defend himself as a nutcase or criminal was about to execute him.

It escapes me how a woman who has been raped and strangled or beaten to death is morally superior to the one who shot her would be attacker dead.

[Continental Op 3,934]

Well I mean you are old and so fat that you can probably barely move so I understand why you would feel like you need a gun.  

I didn't say anything about taking away anyone's right to carry a gun.  I just think if you're so scared of life that you can't even go on a run without one that you're a giant pussy. 

Edited October 28, 2019 by Continental Op

[Armybrat 41,322]

Some of us are easy marks like Luby’s patrons, so there is that.

However, I do not know of any LTC persons who are afraid of life. Nothing wrong with having insurance, is there?  Nor the ability for women to empower themselves from predators?

Dunno why anyone else cares to judge either way....and to belittle them.

[Continental Op 3,934]

41 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

to belittle them.

It is the Shaggy/Surly Way. 

[hopkinsnhorns 533]

Back to the OP's topic - I'd love to know exactly what kind of information the police had before they decided that A. the fleeing teenager was, in fact, a murder suspect and B. that he posed such a risk to the public that shooting him in the back while he ran away unarmed was a prudent choice.

He was the passenger in a vehicle they pulled over.  He was never identified (other than visually) before he bolted, so unless they have Wanted posters out there for this kid, I find it doubtful the he could have been positively identified before the cop decided to shoot him vs. climb his fat ass over a fence.

People claiming he must have been involved in serious crime to run from the police have clearly never been to a high school party that had the PoPo show up.  If a teenager is willing to risk bolting and potentially getting shot to avoid a Minor in Possession of Alcohol citation, assuming the kid is a murderer because he ran is a wildly reckless assumption.

[jimmyjazz 46,978]

15 hours ago, ztejas said:

I think what this thread is missing is a hearty questioning of why this kid was hopping over fences with the cops chasing him. You don't do that if you're innocent. You likely don't do that even if you are guilty of something minor. 

You likely would suck royal ass as a juror.  For fuck's sake, did ANYBODY take a civics class in elementary school?

[Nivek 17,330]

Maybe we are taking about two different things. If the cop has his weapon out already, yes I feel like he probably should identify a weapon before hitting R1.

Anyone that wants the cop to keep his weapon holstered until he has identified a weapon being pulled is a fool and loves in a dream world. As long as they can show videos of cops getting shot because of those similar things, it’s not going to happen.

Upholstering should be a higher standard, aiming at a person, even higher, firing even more so.

I was 15 when I had a gun pulled on me by multiple cops. I was walking home from work, at night around 8 pm or so, walking on the walking path of a park about 2 block away from my home. The cops, had all lights off and drove up on to the walking path, which scared me. My eyes barely adjusted to the blinding lights to see 2 guns pointed at me. I froze. As I was being handcuffed, another off duty driving by runs up with his badge and gun out to catch this hardened criminal.

[irishtexan 11,692]

If I'm reading the article correctly, he was not a suspect in a murder. He was wanted for questioning re: a shooting that resulted in a fatal car crash. The kid's brother later confessed to being the shooter. So it's not like this was a known murderer running from the cops. 

[Armybrat 41,322]

Nivek >>>>>> Well, maybe they knew you posted on Surly..... or worse yet, TOS.

Edited October 28, 2019 by Armybrat
Too slow

[blacklab 12,049]

2 hours ago, hopkinsnhorns said:

Back to the OP's topic - I'd love to know exactly what kind of information the police had before they decided that A. the fleeing teenager was, in fact, a murder suspect and B. that he posed such a risk to the public that shooting him in the back while he ran away unarmed was a prudent choice.

He was the passenger in a vehicle they pulled over.  He was never identified (other than visually) before he bolted, so unless they have Wanted posters out there for this kid, I find it doubtful the he could have been positively identified before the cop decided to shoot him vs. climb his fat ass over a fence.

People claiming he must have been involved in serious crime to run from the police have clearly never been to a high school party that had the PoPo show up.  If a teenager is willing to risk bolting and potentially getting shot to avoid a Minor in Possession of Alcohol citation, assuming the kid is a murderer because he ran is a wildly reckless assumption.

This.

Many on this thread seem to be implying that being a suspect for a murder gives the cops a green light to gun people down.

I don't have a problem with a cop shooting at a person who just commited murder and is running from the scene of the crime. But if all the cop has is a picture of the guy from that mornings briefing along with a "this guy is a suspect in a murder and we'd like to question him", I don't think that that combined with running from a cop is a capital offense.

 

[smuggs 9,394]

I mean seriously the kid's own pants were about to do him in. I gotta believe he was 3-5 steps away from hitting the grass face-first on his own had the officer not shot him. He displayed all of the speed and agility of Baker Mayfield trying to escape the New England pass rush... Maybe if you're the shooter you allow this one to play out for another few seconds and let the linebacker-sized officer make an open field tackle on the 120 lb. shithead?

 

[Brisketexan 106,628]

24 minutes ago, blacklab said:

This.

Many on this thread seem to be implying that being a suspect for a murder gives the cops a green light to gun people down.

I don't have a problem with a cop shooting at a person who just commited murder and is running from the scene of the crime. But if all the cop has is a picture of the guy from that mornings briefing along with a "this guy is a suspect in a murder and we'd like to question him", I don't think that that combined with running from a cop is a capital offense.

 

Particularly when many suspect descriptions are about as detailed and helpful as this:

 

I ran from the cops when they busted a party I was at when I was 16.  Maybe I met the description of a murder suspect that day ("male, human") -- guess they shoulda shot me dead.

[fattyflattie 4,640]

3 hours ago, hopkinsnhorns said:

People claiming he must have been involved in serious crime to run from the police have clearly never been to a high school party that had the PoPo show up.  If a teenager is willing to risk bolting and potentially getting shot to avoid a Minor in Possession of Alcohol citation,

Damn. That takes me back.  

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

It's pretty fucking simple, you don't shoot people in the back.  

We execute people after an exhaustive process, but cops can kill a fleeing teenager ?

[WBT 20,884]

4 hours ago, Nivek said:

Upholstering should be a higher standard

[Jkwellborn 7,007]

Glad you saw that too. I was afraid it was going to be covered up.

[Nivek 17,330]

Fucking iPad. But thanks for the laugh.

[Armybrat 41,322]

12 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

It's pretty fucking simple, you don't shoot people in the back.  

We execute people after an exhaustive process, but cops can kill a fleeing teenager ?

Correct, unless said suspect is fleeing the scene of the murder he just committed.and is still an armed threat to anyone.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

1 hour ago, Armybrat said:

Correct, unless said suspect is fleeing the scene of the murder he just committed.and is still an armed threat to anyone.

Hey there are always circumstantial changes. 

[hayden_horn 11,401]

17 hours ago, blacklab said:

This.

Many on this thread seem to be implying that being a suspect for a murder gives the cops a green light to gun people down.

I don't have a problem with a cop shooting at a person who just commited murder and is running from the scene of the crime. But if all the cop has is a picture of the guy from that mornings briefing along with a "this guy is a suspect in a murder and we'd like to question him", I don't think that that combined with running from a cop is a capital offense.

 

well, there should also be a gun or other lethal weapon presented. you can't just go around shooting people that run from you.

our soldiers in hostile foreign lands have a higher standard of engagement than our own police.

[Texas_Rocks 347]

Back to the OP's topic - I'd love to know exactly what kind of information the police had before they decided that A. the fleeing teenager was, in fact, a murder suspect and B. that he posed such a risk to the public that shooting him in the back while he ran away unarmed was a prudent choice.
He was the passenger in a vehicle they pulled over.  He was never identified (other than visually) before he bolted, so unless they have Wanted posters out there for this kid, I find it doubtful the he could have been positively identified before the cop decided to shoot him vs. climb his fat ass over a fence.

People claiming he must have been involved in serious crime to run from the police have clearly never been to a high school party that had the PoPo show up.  If a teenager is willing to risk bolting and potentially getting shot to avoid a Minor in Possession of Alcohol citation, assuming the kid is a murderer because he ran is a wildly reckless assumption.

WTF, man?!? Logical reasoning will not be tolerated here. :-)

[TexasEd 8,248]

On 10/28/2019 at 1:08 PM, hopkinsnhorns said:

Back to the OP's topic - I'd love to know exactly what kind of information the police had before they decided that A. the fleeing teenager was, in fact, a murder suspect and B. that he posed such a risk to the public that shooting him in the back while he ran away unarmed was a prudent choice.

He was the passenger in a vehicle they pulled over.  He was never identified (other than visually) before he bolted, so unless they have Wanted posters out there for this kid, I find it doubtful the he could have been positively identified before the cop decided to shoot him vs. climb his fat ass over a fence.

People claiming he must have been involved in serious crime to run from the police have clearly never been to a high school party that had the PoPo show up.  If a teenager is willing to risk bolting and potentially getting shot to avoid a Minor in Possession of Alcohol citation, assuming the kid is a murderer because he ran is a wildly reckless assumption.

Maybe he had a bag of weed or some oxy pills on him and did not want to be searched.  What if the cops shot a petty drug dealer fleeing instead of a murder suspect?