this program is an absolute fucking dumpster fire

[Hagbard Celine 10884]

15 hours ago, Caddox said:

I still believe he was a good hire, in that the information available to the college football world pointed to the very reasonable possibility for big success. Here was the thinking as I understood it by the men that were arguably most responsible for hiring him (Mike Perrin and his support system of donors, many from Houston):

1. He (in our eyes) successfully translated Urban Meyer's program to his first job at U of H. 

2. Urban Meyer legitimately learned certain power spread concepts from Tom Herman, but more importantly Tom Herman learned Urban's whole philosophy and successfully forged the two together, resulting in national championship level success using two different QBs. 

3. Tom Herman showed a deep understanding of the modern recruiting landscape, especially in the field of engaging 7 on 7 teams and creating unique and impressive environments for recruit visits but especially official visits. 

4. Herman had clear and very positive ties to both the state and the school. 

5. Herman communicated very specific program changes he felt were needed at Texas to interested alums while at U of H. He basically told us well before he got hired that we were wayyy behind in the facilities and infrastructure race. He had the same type of communication with U of H and Fertitta that was well received before he was hired there. By all accounts, Herman implemented the changes he suggested at U if H successfully. He backed his talk up when he told Fertitta they're wasting their time unless they do certain things. 

6. The timing was very good for it all to come together. We had trouble hiring someone during the previous search and it was a rough spot to be in. As a result, we got bent over by Charlie fucking Strong on the contract. 

7. D/FW donors weren't as influential during that period, as they were largely responsible for both the debacle with Mack at the end and the Steve Patterson. They basically had to sit that round out and just support the decision. Those two groups don't play that nice and the D/FW crowd had recently blown it big time in multiple ways. Fwiw, I don't really know where other areas of the state fall into this dynamic (I'm getting all of this from the houston side, and a tiny amount from the dallas side.) Also, I'm not saying D/FW folks didnt want Herman, a FW guy was super involved in the whole process. Just saying I think it's relevant that Houston was kind of on serve. 

8. I've realized this is way too long and Im just trying to make myself feel better, and no one is going to read this. 

 

BS no one is going to read this.  This is the type of deep introspection we here on the surl need to be out in front with because this is literally the only "neutral ground" where it can be discussed.  We have a systemic problem that is a mix of The Tower, Bellmont and the BMDs.  We have very little insight in to it.  Only those involved on a need-to-know basis are privvy to the mechanics and mechanisms, as is par for the course for command and control in any closed system.

At this point, we need to hire Deloitte or McKinsey etc. to do a full scope assessment and needs analysis so we can get a true agnostic neutral view of what ails us and what we need to do about it going forward.

[Loco 3753]

2 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

At this point, we need to hire Deloitte or McKinsey etc. to do a full scope assessment and needs analysis so we can get a true agnostic neutral view of what ails us and what we need to do about it going forward.

[Hagbard Celine 10884]

1 hour ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

All factual IMO but the first 7 of these bullet points simply illustrate how the people involved in this decision got fascinated by isolated trees here and there and missed on the forest -- that fundamentally, his UH program was built on hero ball on offense ( the G5 Cam Newton at QB); his so-called proven ability as a recruiter was skewed by his fluke landing of Ed Oliver; and that fundamentally, Tom Herman's whole run at UH was built on a foundation of Herman's fraudulent persona.

That whole ice-grill, "H-Town Takeover," hip-hop coach Herman "the U"-wannabe shit was pure and simple all sizzle and no steak, as fake as the zirconias in those teeth. 

I heard it in person. After Texas had locked in on Herman as the One and Only True Anointed One, but long before it was made official, I started listening to his call-in shows on Houston radio. One red flag went up after the Navy loss. The host asked him what happened, and Herman said words to the effect of "Well, Navy's an option team, the game was on the road, we've had a lot of linebackers get hurt and our backup LBs are terrible and hey -- never let it be forgotten that winning is hard." And then he went and poked the SMU bear (I think because he lurked on Houston Reddit and saw how you get mucho upvotes if you say "Dallas sucks" in any way shape or form) and couldn't back that up even a little. He dared Chad fucking Morris to a fight, and Chad fucking Morris kicked his ass.

On another occasion, one of the hosts asked Hip Hop Tom Herman to name his five favorite H-Town rappers. Not only couldn't he name five of his so-called favorites, he couldn't even come up with five rappers from Houston, period. It was obvious to me that he sold the clueless BMDs on the idea that he was Young Urban Meyer "with a beat," that he "got jiggy" and "spoke jive" via the music of Screwston/Hustle Town/the City of Syrup and thus would be able to lock down Houston recruits for UT forevermore, but it was just flat obvious to me, a fortysomething cracker, that he didn't know shit. It was embarassing listening to him flounder around while the host spoonfed him a few basic names -- "Slim Thug? I bet he's one of your faves," "How about UGK?", "Oh, and Scarface. I bet you like him too." Herman didn't know the basics, much less what the kids on his team were jamming, still less what the recruits were bumping, but hey, didn't he pose for that pic with a mouthful of fake diamonds?

 Fraud. 

 Then there was that time he personally called in to aggy Lopez on sports 610 to defend himself against Lopez's allegation that Herman met with Kyle Allen during the dead period, and then ended up in a Twitter war that Michelle had to intervene in. Herman looked petty, vain, immature and downright stupid, but hey, why let any of that get in the way. We were locked and loaded and he was the only possible savior for the program so we just kept on trucking right past all those red flags.

I know all of y'all are gonna see this as a defense of Charlie but it really isn't. But the problem with this so-called coaching search is it became about "How soon can we fire Strong and hire Tom Herman?" rather than "Why don't we have a set of candidates in place for when we fire Strong?" And that was inexcusable because despite what some posters seem to believe on here, this was not some panic move. The decision to move on from Charlie had been made in year two of his tenure. And the same goes for the name of his successor, sadly. I don't think I've ever seen a so-called "coaching search" like it, one where the whole thing was telegraphed over a year in advance.

(I am also thinking that there might have been another completely non-football angle to this in that McRaven might have wanted to take Herman from Fertitta as payback for Tilman fucking with and ultimately ending the UT-Houston plan.)

fantastic post.  more support for the idea that the next hire needs to be done differently without the uncontrolled chaos that seems to mark our "coaching hiregasm by gestalt" process.

<"(I am also thinking that there might have been another completely n.on-football angle to this in that McRaven might have wanted to take Herman from Fertitta as payback for Tilman fucking with and ultimately ending the UT-Houston plan.)">

Never thought of that and the timing makes perfect sense.

[Hagbard Celine 10884]

47 minutes ago, Goodman said:

The problem is our Athletic Department and its influencers proving they have no methodology to success other than monetizing a product.

We're really starting to get somewhere with this.

Meatchicken PROVES you can win, clean, and still profit.

So let's get a 3rd party to do the search the right way, and go get ourselves a 49ers head coach.

[dcar00 14306]

1 hour ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

All factual IMO but the first 7 of these bullet points simply illustrate how the people involved in this decision got fascinated by isolated trees here and there and missed on the forest -- that fundamentally, his UH program was built on hero ball on offense ( the G5 Cam Newton at QB); his so-called proven ability as a recruiter was skewed by his fluke landing of Ed Oliver; and that fundamentally, Tom Herman's whole run at UH was built on a foundation of Herman's fraudulent persona.

That whole ice-grill, "H-Town Takeover," hip-hop coach Herman "the U"-wannabe shit was pure and simple all sizzle and no steak, as fake as the zirconias in those teeth. 

I heard it in person. After Texas had locked in on Herman as the One and Only True Anointed One, but long before it was made official, I started listening to his call-in shows on Houston radio. One red flag went up after the Navy loss. The host asked him what happened, and Herman said words to the effect of "Well, Navy's an option team, the game was on the road, we've had a lot of linebackers get hurt and our backup LBs are terrible and hey -- never let it be forgotten that winning is hard." And then he went and poked the SMU bear (I think because he lurked on Houston Reddit and saw how you get mucho upvotes if you say "Dallas sucks" in any way shape or form) and couldn't back that up even a little. He dared Chad fucking Morris to a fight, and Chad fucking Morris kicked his ass.

On another occasion, one of the hosts asked Hip Hop Tom Herman to name his five favorite H-Town rappers. Not only couldn't he name five of his so-called favorites, he couldn't even come up with five rappers from Houston, period. It was obvious to me that he sold the clueless BMDs on the idea that he was Young Urban Meyer "with a beat," that he "got jiggy" and "spoke jive" via the music of Screwston/Hustle Town/the City of Syrup and thus would be able to lock down Houston recruits for UT forevermore, but it was just flat obvious to me, a fortysomething cracker, that he didn't know shit. It was embarassing listening to him flounder around while the host spoonfed him a few basic names -- "Slim Thug? I bet he's one of your faves," "How about UGK?", "Oh, and Scarface. I bet you like him too." Herman didn't know the basics, much less what the kids on his team were jamming, still less what the recruits were bumping, but hey, didn't he pose for that pic with a mouthful of fake diamonds?

 Fraud. 

 Then there was that time he personally called in to aggy Lopez on sports 610 to defend himself against Lopez's allegation that Herman met with Kyle Allen during the dead period, and then ended up in a Twitter war that Michelle had to intervene in. Herman looked petty, vain, immature and downright stupid, but hey, why let any of that get in the way. We were locked and loaded and he was the only possible savior for the program so we just kept on trucking right past all those red flags.

I know all of y'all are gonna see this as a defense of Charlie but it really isn't. But the problem with this so-called coaching search is it became about "How soon can we fire Strong and hire Tom Herman?" rather than "Why don't we have a set of candidates in place for when we fire Strong?" And that was inexcusable because despite what some posters seem to believe on here, this was not some panic move. The decision to move on from Charlie had been made in year two of his tenure. And the same goes for the name of his successor, sadly. I don't think I've ever seen a so-called "coaching search" like it, one where the whole thing was telegraphed over a year in advance.

(I am also thinking that there might have been another completely non-football angle to this in that McRaven might have wanted to take Herman from Fertitta as payback for Tilman fucking with and ultimately ending the UT-Houston plan.)

panic move has little to do with timing.  they panicked.  zero plan other than "we must get Herman".  buncha dumbasses runnin the show.  Royal had to step in to get us Mack over Barnett.  

[Girdwood 118]

[Laga4 1270]

I think there are internal team/coach problems that are a lot bigger than we know about.  

[Goodman 3273]

34 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

We're really starting to get somewhere with this.

Meatchicken PROVES you can win, clean, and still profit.

So let's get a 3rd party to do the search the right way, and go get ourselves a 49ers head coach.

Rod has said that Kyle wants no part of cfb, I don't blame him. What I'd love to see is our HC being smart and self-confident enough to leverage the subject matter experts that are part of our FB fraternity. Rod, Dan Neil and Kyle should be a big part of our HC's advisory board...those are just 3 of a much larger number of folks who would give their time to help our program if lead efficiently. 

[Caddox 952]

1 hour ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

All factual IMO but the first 7 of these bullet points simply illustrate how the people involved in this decision got fascinated by isolated trees here and there and missed on the forest -- that fundamentally, his UH program was built on hero ball on offense ( the G5 Cam Newton at QB); his so-called proven ability as a recruiter was skewed by his fluke landing of Ed Oliver; and that fundamentally, Tom Herman's whole run at UH was built on a foundation of Herman's fraudulent persona.

That whole ice-grill, "H-Town Takeover," hip-hop coach Herman "the U"-wannabe shit was pure and simple all sizzle and no steak, as fake as the zirconias in those teeth. 

I heard it in person. After Texas had locked in on Herman as the One and Only True Anointed One, but long before it was made official, I started listening to his call-in shows on Houston radio. One red flag went up after the Navy loss. The host asked him what happened, and Herman said words to the effect of "Well, Navy's an option team, the game was on the road, we've had a lot of linebackers get hurt and our backup LBs are terrible and hey -- never let it be forgotten that winning is hard." And then he went and poked the SMU bear (I think because he lurked on Houston Reddit and saw how you get mucho upvotes if you say "Dallas sucks" in any way shape or form) and couldn't back that up even a little. He dared Chad fucking Morris to a fight, and Chad fucking Morris kicked his ass.

On another occasion, one of the hosts asked Hip Hop Tom Herman to name his five favorite H-Town rappers. Not only couldn't he name five of his so-called favorites, he couldn't even come up with five rappers from Houston, period. It was obvious to me that he sold the clueless BMDs on the idea that he was Young Urban Meyer "with a beat," that he "got jiggy" and "spoke jive" via the music of Screwston/Hustle Town/the City of Syrup and thus would be able to lock down Houston recruits for UT forevermore, but it was just flat obvious to me, a fortysomething cracker, that he didn't know shit. It was embarassing listening to him flounder around while the host spoonfed him a few basic names -- "Slim Thug? I bet he's one of your faves," "How about UGK?", "Oh, and Scarface. I bet you like him too." Herman didn't know the basics, much less what the kids on his team were jamming, still less what the recruits were bumping, but hey, didn't he pose for that pic with a mouthful of fake diamonds?

 Fraud. 

 Then there was that time he personally called in to aggy Lopez on sports 610 to defend himself against Lopez's allegation that Herman met with Kyle Allen during the dead period, and then ended up in a Twitter war that Michelle had to intervene in. Herman looked petty, vain, immature and downright stupid, but hey, why let any of that get in the way. We were locked and loaded and he was the only possible savior for the program so we just kept on trucking right past all those red flags.

I know all of y'all are gonna see this as a defense of Charlie but it really isn't. But the problem with this so-called coaching search is it became about "How soon can we fire Strong and hire Tom Herman?" rather than "Why don't we have a set of candidates in place for when we fire Strong?" And that was inexcusable because despite what some posters seem to believe on here, this was not some panic move. The decision to move on from Charlie had been made in year two of his tenure. And the same goes for the name of his successor, sadly. I don't think I've ever seen a so-called "coaching search" like it, one where the whole thing was telegraphed over a year in advance.

(I am also thinking that there might have been another completely non-football angle to this in that McRaven might have wanted to take Herman from Fertitta as payback for Tilman fucking with and ultimately ending the UT-Houston plan.)

Yea we got completely taken, me as much as anyone else. I kept trying to tell people Charlie was a dead man walking after TCU. There was little doubt in my mind, and it really didnt have as much to do with Charlie as it did with a real majority amount of support for hiring Herman within our donor group. The Dallas group started to murmur after that SMU loss but the momentum was already in force by then. Plus, Perrin did a good job with the group overall in just stopping the bleeding from the Patterson fallout. Those were dark days and in a way I think we kind of felt lucky Herman "fell into our lap." 

[victory88 5669]

2 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

All factual IMO but the first 7 of these bullet points simply illustrate how the people involved in this decision got fascinated by isolated trees here and there and missed on the forest -- that fundamentally, his UH program was built on hero ball on offense ( the G5 Cam Newton at QB); his so-called proven ability as a recruiter was skewed by his fluke landing of Ed Oliver; and that fundamentally, Tom Herman's whole run at UH was built on a foundation of Herman's fraudulent persona.

That whole ice-grill, "H-Town Takeover," hip-hop coach Herman "the U"-wannabe shit was pure and simple all sizzle and no steak, as fake as the zirconias in those teeth. 

I heard it in person. After Texas had locked in on Herman as the One and Only True Anointed One, but long before it was made official, I started listening to his call-in shows on Houston radio. One red flag went up after the Navy loss. The host asked him what happened, and Herman said words to the effect of "Well, Navy's an option team, the game was on the road, we've had a lot of linebackers get hurt and our backup LBs are terrible and hey -- never let it be forgotten that winning is hard." And then he went and poked the SMU bear (I think because he lurked on Houston Reddit and saw how you get mucho upvotes if you say "Dallas sucks" in any way shape or form) and couldn't back that up even a little. He dared Chad fucking Morris to a fight, and Chad fucking Morris kicked his ass.

On another occasion, one of the hosts asked Hip Hop Tom Herman to name his five favorite H-Town rappers. Not only couldn't he name five of his so-called favorites, he couldn't even come up with five rappers from Houston, period. It was obvious to me that he sold the clueless BMDs on the idea that he was Young Urban Meyer "with a beat," that he "got jiggy" and "spoke jive" via the music of Screwston/Hustle Town/the City of Syrup and thus would be able to lock down Houston recruits for UT forevermore, but it was just flat obvious to me, a fortysomething cracker, that he didn't know shit. It was embarassing listening to him flounder around while the host spoonfed him a few basic names -- "Slim Thug? I bet he's one of your faves," "How about UGK?", "Oh, and Scarface. I bet you like him too." Herman didn't know the basics, much less what the kids on his team were jamming, still less what the recruits were bumping, but hey, didn't he pose for that pic with a mouthful of fake diamonds?

 Fraud. 

 Then there was that time he personally called in to aggy Lopez on sports 610 to defend himself against Lopez's allegation that Herman met with Kyle Allen during the dead period, and then ended up in a Twitter war that Michelle had to intervene in. Herman looked petty, vain, immature and downright stupid, but hey, why let any of that get in the way. We were locked and loaded and he was the only possible savior for the program so we just kept on trucking right past all those red flags.

I know all of y'all are gonna see this as a defense of Charlie but it really isn't. But the problem with this so-called coaching search is it became about "How soon can we fire Strong and hire Tom Herman?" rather than "Why don't we have a set of candidates in place for when we fire Strong?" And that was inexcusable because despite what some posters seem to believe on here, this was not some panic move. The decision to move on from Charlie had been made in year two of his tenure. And the same goes for the name of his successor, sadly. I don't think I've ever seen a so-called "coaching search" like it, one where the whole thing was telegraphed over a year in advance.

(I am also thinking that there might have been another completely non-football angle to this in that McRaven might have wanted to take Herman from Fertitta as payback for Tilman fucking with and ultimately ending the UT-Houston plan.)

It didn't help that he fucking put an ass kicking on Lamar Jackson/Louisville and LSU had put an offer for him on the table.  We were scared of missing the next big time coach to a regional power.  We fucking panicked and hired him overnight.  I'm fucking guilty of celebrating that hire.  He at least got us out of the coffin Charlie had us lying down in.  But he can't seem to get us out of 11 foot hole we're stuck in.  We need another guy to take over and elevate this program to the next level. 

[Gatorubet 30263]

1 minute ago, victory88 said:

It didn't help that he fucking put an ass kicking on Lamar Jackson/Louisville and LSU had put an offer for him on the table.  We were scared of missing the next big time coach to a regional power.  We fucking panicked and hired him overnight.  I'm fucking guilty of celebrating that hire.  He at least got us out of the coffin Charlie had us lying down in.  But he can't seem to get us out of 11 foot hole we're stuck in.  We need another guy to take over and elevate this program to the next level. 

Do y'all think that two coaches being launched so soon after the hire will have an effect on who will agree to come here? 

I mean, if you can't get three or four years to fix a dumpster fire before you're fired, who would go anywhere to fix a dumpster fire? - unless you get really stupid money to do it and can laugh at your golden parachute after two years.

[tbone_ 14132]

You don’t have to win a natty to stick around past 3 years. You pretty much just need to not blow ass, not trend backwards and not look completely retarded in all aspects.

 

And all P5 head coach money is stupid money these days.

 

[BradInATX 9208]

BS no one is going to read this.  This is the type of deep introspection we here on the surl need to be out in front with because this is literally the only "neutral ground" where it can be discussed.  We have a systemic problem that is a mix of The Tower, Bellmont and the BMDs.  We have very little insight in to it.  Only those involved on a need-to-know basis are privvy to the mechanics and mechanisms, as is par for the course for command and control in any closed system.
At this point, we need to hire Deloitte or McKinsey etc. to do a full scope assessment and needs analysis so we can get a true agnostic neutral view of what ails us and what we need to do about it going forward.

Didn't Deloitte recommend Charlis Strong?

[Zavala 1384]

17 hours ago, Caddox said:

I still believe he was a good hire, in that the information available to the college football world pointed to the very reasonable possibility for big success. Here was the thinking as I understood it by the men that were arguably most responsible for hiring him (Mike Perrin and his support system of donors, many from Houston):

1. He (in our eyes) successfully translated Urban Meyer's program to his first job at U of H. 

2. Urban Meyer legitimately learned certain power spread concepts from Tom Herman, but more importantly Tom Herman learned Urban's whole philosophy and successfully forged the two together, resulting in national championship level success using two different QBs. 

3. Tom Herman showed a deep understanding of the modern recruiting landscape, especially in the field of engaging 7 on 7 teams and creating unique and impressive environments for recruit visits but especially official visits. 

4. Herman had clear and very positive ties to both the state and the school. 

5. Herman communicated very specific program changes he felt were needed at Texas to interested alums while at U of H. He basically told us well before he got hired that we were wayyy behind in the facilities and infrastructure race. He had the same type of communication with U of H and Fertitta that was well received before he was hired there. By all accounts, Herman implemented the changes he suggested at U if H successfully. He backed his talk up when he told Fertitta they're wasting their time unless they do certain things. 

6. The timing was very good for it all to come together. We had trouble hiring someone during the previous search and it was a rough spot to be in. As a result, we got bent over by Charlie fucking Strong on the contract. 

7. D/FW donors weren't as influential during that period, as they were largely responsible for both the debacle with Mack at the end and the Steve Patterson. They basically had to sit that round out and just support the decision. Those two groups don't play that nice and the D/FW crowd had recently blown it big time in multiple ways. Fwiw, I don't really know where other areas of the state fall into this dynamic (I'm getting all of this from the houston side, and a tiny amount from the dallas side.) Also, I'm not saying D/FW folks didnt want Herman, a FW guy was super involved in the whole process. Just saying I think it's relevant that Houston was kind of on serve. 

8. I've realized this is way too long and Im just trying to make myself feel better, and no one is going to read this. 

 

I read that, agree for the most part.

I don't know he taught Urban too much about power spread through.

[Gatorubet 30263]

9 hours ago, Zavala said:

I read that, agree for the most part.

I don't know he taught Urban too much about power spread through.

I wish I could see who pancaked the Sooner.

[Hookah Horns 3083]

On 11/23/2019 at 6:53 PM, Laga4 said:

Watched the his presser after the game.  

I'm really,  really glad he explained the 10-80-10 rule. That cleared a lot of things up. 

I was grateful to learn the definition of "strain," as well. 

[Bill Lumbergh 7171]

Do y'all think that two coaches being launched so soon after the hire will have an effect on who will agree to come here? 
I mean, if you can't get three or four years to fix a dumpster fire before you're fired, who would go anywhere to fix a dumpster fire? - unless you get really stupid money to do it and can laugh at your golden parachute after two years.

Show them tape of Strong's and Herman's last years.

Tell them: you can lose in year three, but don't have it be the result of stubbornness or clear coaching incompetence.

If it's one of those two things, and you're losing in year three, yes you will be fired. Your paycheck is big enough for it not to be one of those two things causing you to lose in year three.

[David Dennison 18938]

5 minutes ago, Bill Lumbergh said:

Show them tape of Strong's and Herman's last years.

Tell them: you can lose in year three, but don't have it be the result of stubbornness or clear coaching incompetence.

If it's one of those two things, and you're losing in year three, yes you will be fired. Your paycheck is big enough for it not to be one of those two things causing you to lose in year three.

The worst part about this post is knowing that Tom Herman is in no danger of losing his job before next season.

[Loco 3753]

On 11/23/2019 at 10:30 PM, Caddox said:

2. Urban Meyer legitimately learned certain power spread concepts from Tom Herman, but more importantly Tom Herman learned Urban's whole philosophy and successfully forged the two together, resulting in national championship level success using two different QBs. 

 

I'm going to stop you right there chief...   

2a Are you saying Urbs didn't run the power spread before Herman?  or that Herman added some facet to Urban's spread. 

2b I'd like to hear more about Herman's maniacal focus on special teams.  Because if Urbs has a defining philosophy it's that you win on special teams

[NeverMarryAStripper 21909]

2 minutes ago, Loco said:

I'm going to stop you right there chief...   

2a Are you saying Urbs didn't run the power spread before Herman?  or that Herman added some facet to Urban's spread. 

2b I'd like to hear more about Herman's maniacal focus on special teams.  Because if Urbs has a defining philosophy it's that you win on special teams

Our special teams have certainly helped teams win games

[Getafix 28685]

19 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

Do y'all think that two coaches being launched so soon after the hire will have an effect on who will agree to come here? 

I mean, if you can't get three or four years to fix a dumpster fire before you're fired, who would go anywhere to fix a dumpster fire? - unless you get really stupid money to do it and can laugh at your golden parachute after two years.

I think the sequence of the seasons we've had - and the trend they suggest - is an important part of this.

If this season had been his first or second, and the 2018 season - ending with the B12 championship game and the win over Georgia - had been his third, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21909]

Just now, Getafix said:

If this season had been his first or second, and the 2018 season - ending with the B12 championship game and the win over Georgia - had been his third, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Of course not because we would still be back.

[oSuJeff97 3435]

22 hours ago, Goodman said:

JFC, the problem is not ATX. The problem is our Athletic Department and its influencers proving they have no methodology to success other than monetizing a product.

Take away the "remote" schools if you'd like, remove bama, ND and Clemson. Lots of distractions in Columbus, Ann Arbor/Detroit, ou players are always into okc shit, Athens/Atlanta is very enticing, SoCal, Seattle.....ATX has nothing to do with our AD hiring poor leaders, they are the ones failing. Every organization starts at the top and to me, CDC/Fenves have to prove they can get it done. The track and softball hires are homers, let's see how they solve FB/BB*2/Soccer.

Yeah the idea that college football players at other schools don't have "distractions" just because the cities/towns the schools are situated in aren't as big and nice as Austin doesn't really track.

You know what are "distractions" for college football players?  Hot-ass college trim. And that's something that is not in short supply at pretty much any school in the nation... certainly not at any of the big state schools that make up most of the college football powers.

You don't need Sixth or Rainey Street or South Congress or whatever to distract college football players.  Throw a bunch of hot trim at whatever the local bar/club scene is you have a whole shit ton of "distraction."

[Jebus 1314]

22 hours ago, Hagbard Celine said:

We're really starting to get somewhere with this.

Meatchicken PROVES you can win, clean, and still profit.

So let's get a 3rd party to do the search the right way, and go get ourselves a 49ers head coach.

so your whole deal in this thread seems to be all "let's get introspective, break things down and analyze what's gone wrong and how we can fix it in a realistic way."

and then your conclusion is "let's go hire a young rising star of an NFL coach away from one of the most storied franchises in the league, the day after they absolutely destroyed another of the leagues most storied franchises on national TV to move to 10-1 on the season, a season which is looking increasingly likely to end in the super bowl"

One thing's for sure, you're certainly right about some of us going full aggy.

[WBT 20635]

On 11/23/2019 at 9:30 PM, Caddox said:

I still believe he was a good hire, in that the information available to the college football world pointed to the very reasonable possibility for big success. Here was the thinking as I understood it by the men that were arguably most responsible for hiring him (Mike Perrin and his support system of donors, many from Houston):

1. He (in our eyes) successfully translated Urban Meyer's program to his first job at U of H. 

2. Urban Meyer legitimately learned certain power spread concepts from Tom Herman, but more importantly Tom Herman learned Urban's whole philosophy and successfully forged the two together, resulting in national championship level success using two different QBs. 

3. Tom Herman showed a deep understanding of the modern recruiting landscape, especially in the field of engaging 7 on 7 teams and creating unique and impressive environments for recruit visits but especially official visits. 

4. Herman had clear and very positive ties to both the state and the school. 

5. Herman communicated very specific program changes he felt were needed at Texas to interested alums while at U of H. He basically told us well before he got hired that we were wayyy behind in the facilities and infrastructure race. He had the same type of communication with U of H and Fertitta that was well received before he was hired there. By all accounts, Herman implemented the changes he suggested at U if H successfully. He backed his talk up when he told Fertitta they're wasting their time unless they do certain things. 

6. The timing was very good for it all to come together. We had trouble hiring someone during the previous search and it was a rough spot to be in. As a result, we got bent over by Charlie fucking Strong on the contract. 

7. D/FW donors weren't as influential during that period, as they were largely responsible for both the debacle with Mack at the end and the Steve Patterson. They basically had to sit that round out and just support the decision. Those two groups don't play that nice and the D/FW crowd had recently blown it big time in multiple ways. Fwiw, I don't really know where other areas of the state fall into this dynamic (I'm getting all of this from the houston side, and a tiny amount from the dallas side.) Also, I'm not saying D/FW folks didnt want Herman, a FW guy was super involved in the whole process. Just saying I think it's relevant that Houston was kind of on serve. 

8. I've realized this is way too long and Im just trying to make myself feel better, and no one is going to read this. 

 

It was pretty apparent at the time that this is how it went down and it raised huge red flags about our hiring process, especially #5 and #7.  We didn't conduct a search.  We didn't interview promising coaches that succeeded beyond what would be expected of them based on their program/conference.  Our Houston donors were sucked in by ego-stroking (your donations to fix facilities are all we need!) and the idea of access.  Herman's lobbying for the job while still employed at cougar high rubbed me the wrong way and should have been a red flag.

[G650 14268]

23 hours ago, Hagbard Celine said:

Meatchicken PROVES you can win, clean, and still profit.

Since when?

[mdmost 43008]

Take a look at Michigan and Texas this decade. Michigan is light years ahead of us. They, like us, just have to live in the same conference as a team that's light years better than them. 

[G650 14268]

I guess good on them for being a taller midget?

[Hagbard Celine 10884]

1 hour ago, Jebus said:

so your whole deal in this thread seems to be all "let's get introspective, break things down and analyze what's gone wrong and how we can fix it in a realistic way."

and then your conclusion is "let's go hire a young rising star of an NFL coach away from one of the most storied franchises in the league, the day after they absolutely destroyed another of the leagues most storied franchises on national TV to move to 10-1 on the season, a season which is looking increasingly likely to end in the super bowl"

One thing's for sure, you're certainly right about some of us going full aggy.

sorry if the sarcasm font wasn't on re: shanahan and deloitte.

however, full steam ahead on full aggy.  we're spiraling down at terminal velocity.

[Caddox 952]

4 hours ago, Loco said:

I'm going to stop you right there chief...   

2a Are you saying Urbs didn't run the power spread before Herman?  or that Herman added some facet to Urban's spread. 

2b I'd like to hear more about Herman's maniacal focus on special teams.  Because if Urbs has a defining philosophy it's that you win on special teams

Yea Herman was using HUNH concepts that Meyer coveted. 
 

No clue on special teams. Tom must’ve been in the film room with the qbs during that stuff.

[hornhorn 100]

1 hour ago, mdmost said:

Take a look at Michigan and Texas this decade. Michigan is light years ahead of us. They, like us, just have to live in the same conference as a team that's light years better than them. 

At least by that metric UT is doing slightly better at 7-14 vs OU whereas UM is 4-15 vs tOSU since the year 2000.

But yes the records are quite similar.

[Hagbard Celine 10884]

On 11/24/2019 at 2:33 PM, BradInATX said:

On 11/24/2019 at 12:38 PM, Hagbard Celine said:

BS no one is going to read this.  This is the type of deep introspection we here on the surl need to be out in front with because this is literally the only "neutral ground" where it can be discussed.  We have a systemic problem that is a mix of The Tower, Bellmont and the BMDs.  We have very little insight in to it.  Only those involved on a need-to-know basis are privvy to the mechanics and mechanisms, as is par for the course for command and control in any closed system.
At this point, we need to hire Deloitte or McKinsey etc. to do a full scope assessment and needs analysis so we can get a true agnostic neutral view of what ails us and what we need to do about it going forward.

Didn't Deloitte recommend Charlie Strong?

yes and i apologize to everyone for not using sarcasm font

[Hagbard Celine 10884]

2 hours ago, G650 said:

meatchicken /Since when?

/sarc

[Jebus 1314]

2 hours ago, Hagbard Celine said:

sorry if the sarcasm font wasn't on re: shanahan and deloitte.

however, full steam ahead on full aggy.  we're spiraling down at terminal velocity.

Figured either it was sarcasm or you had lost your last marble, wouldn’t be surprising after watching this season (these last however many seasons)

[Treefidy 1469]

On 11/24/2019 at 1:48 PM, Gatorubet said:

Do y'all think that two coaches being launched so soon after the hire will have an effect on who will agree to come here? 

I mean, if you can't get three or four years to fix a dumpster fire before you're fired, who would go anywhere to fix a dumpster fire? - unless you get really stupid money to do it and can laugh at your golden parachute after two years.

247 team composite shows UT at 7 on talent at hand.  Overall it's indicative of where a team should be ranked, with a few under and over achievers.  UT is by far the biggest underachiever followed by USC.  Overachievers include usual suspect Wisconsin and then Minnesota and Baylor. 

Theres talent here and a machine that can recruit in the middle of the most fertile recruiting bed to keep it going and improve, there has been a criminal lack of development and actual coaching based on dollars paid and results going on a decade.  

Do you consider yourself to be at the top of your field, or at least very fucking good at what you do?  If I were a football coach, UT would be on my very short list of places I would want to go and whip people's asses.  

Edited November 26, 2019 by Treefidy
And I like money

[BigOrange1 6442]

bump.

[Bullneck 19184]

On 11/24/2019 at 1:38 PM, Hagbard Celine said:

BS no one is going to read this.  This is the type of deep introspection we here on the surl need to be out in front with because this is literally the only "neutral ground" where it can be discussed.  We have a systemic problem that is a mix of The Tower, Bellmont and the BMDs.  We have very little insight in to it.  Only those involved on a need-to-know basis are privvy to the mechanics and mechanisms, as is par for the course for command and control in any closed system.

At this point, we need to hire Deloitte or McKinsey etc. to do a full scope assessment and needs analysis so we can get a true agnostic neutral view of what ails us and what we need to do about it going forward.

We need the Ambassador to Luxembourg on the job.

[satyanash 14562]

[Guest Lobo]

49 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

We need the Ambassador to Luxembourg on the job.

You talking bout Pam W?

[LTtxfan 49304]

46 minutes ago, satyanash said:

 

[alphahorn 1637]

On 11/24/2019 at 1:33 PM, BradInATX said:

Didn't Deloitte recommend Charlis Strong?

No we used a search firm Korn Ferry and they suck at what they do.  But I guess all that money we were paying Steve to be AD didn't include the expertise to hire a fucking football coach, so he had UT write a check for $267,000 to have Korn Ferry do it for him.

Edited December 17, 2019 by alphahorn

[Minor Orangeblack 112]

Other programs use Korn Ferry. It’s obvious we use the Corncob Fairy. 

[Bullneck 19184]

12 hours ago, Lobo said:

You talking bout Pam W?

Whoever it was from the search committee that picked Charlie Strong.  They had impressive credentials for launching a new line of baby products or a new regional airline but somehow ended up selecting the leader for a bunch of sweaty guys smashing into each other.  

[runthebone 8020]

I disagree with the entire premise for this thread.  Dumpster fires have the benefit of providing hobos warmth, but this program just fucking sucks.