Urban Meyer or bust

[BradInATX 9208]

I didn’t say no “top program” I said no “blue blood program”.  Learn to read, then you can come back and talk with the grownups.

Now you're trying to wiggle out of your terrible, self-contradicting argument with word games. That's desperation, Hail Mary stuff right there.

Florida is a blue blood, top program, whatever. Especially when you compare them to Texas circa 2019.

You made a bad, dumb argument. Admit it and move on.

[CooterBrown 18004]

All the blue blood talk is stupid. No recruit gives two fucks about ancient history. What you did today and what you will do tomorrow is all that matters. Right now we don’t win, we don’t develop players, and we don’t get players drafted. There’s not one recruit that gives a shit we were big swinging dicks when their grandparents were kids. The only people who care are old fat white guys.

Who gives a fuck if Urban is an asshole? You just described 90% of coaches at every level.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

8 hours ago, Hookah Horns said:

How are our expectations unrealistic? 

we expect to compete on the level of Oklahoma, Ohio State, Alabama, and we don't come close

Winning the Sugar Bowl to top off a four-loss season? Winning two conference titles in nineteen years? I could go on, but hopefully you already get the point.

Aspirations and expectations aren't the same thing. We expect things we can't even realistically aspire to.

[alincoln 2371]

32 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

Who gives a fuck if Urban is an asshole?

About half the fan base.  The morality of the football program is the Texas version of the aggy honor code.  Complete bullshit but its adherents will defend its legitimacy to the death.

Edited November 27, 2019 by alincoln

[Landomatic 3813]

37 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Now you're trying to wiggle out of your terrible, self-contradicting argument with word games. That's desperation, Hail Mary stuff right there.

Florida is a blue blood, top program, whatever. Especially when you compare them to Texas circa 2019.

You made a bad, dumb argument. Admit it and move on.

Not trying to wiggle out of anything, just stating facts.  You've already shown you can't read, now you've just shown you don't know what you're talking about.  Florida is not considered (by most that I've ever encountered) to be a "blue blood" college football program.  There are 8 of them (alabama, ousux, notre dame, ohio st, michigan, nebraska, usc and TEXAS).  When I said there hasn't been a blue blood that's won a national championship with a prospect, unproven coach since Mack did it for UT damn near 20 years ago, and that a lot has changed in college football since then, I was right.  Now, if you had wanted to add to that and say, "okay, maybe not a blue blood, but florida did it with Urban since then and clemson has done it with Dabo since then, you too would have been right.  But you didn't.  Instead, you twisted my words and went with childish "you're terrible and dumb" type arguments.  Act like an unintelligent, petulant child and you'll get treated as such.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

4 minutes ago, alincoln said:

About half the fan base.  The morality of the football program is the Texas version of the aggy honor code.  Complete bullshit but its adherents will defend its veracity to the death.

I think winning is more important to that half of the fan base than morality. But only by a 51/49 split. They really, really, really like being able to point out how our shit is less stinky and more pleasantly tapered than Alabama or Ohio State's. Having that moral superiority gives them a really warm glow, warm enough to make up for not winning shit for fifteen years.

Edited November 27, 2019 by SwanderedTalent

[Landomatic 3813]

35 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

All the blue blood talk is stupid. No recruit gives two fucks about ancient history. What you did today and what you will do tomorrow is all that matters. Right now we don’t win, we don’t develop players, and we don’t get players drafted. There’s not one recruit that gives a shit we were big swinging dicks when their grandparents were kids. The only people who care are old fat white guys.

Who gives a fuck if Urban is an asshole? You just described 90% of coaches at every level.

Completely agree with all of this when talking about recruiting.  However, I think the references to "blue blood" in this context pertain to 1) jobs Urban Meyer might take and 2) college football juggernaut programs which require a certain level of very unique head coaching experience to navigate.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

54 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Now you're trying to wiggle out of your terrible, self-contradicting argument with word games. That's desperation, Hail Mary stuff right there.

Florida is a blue blood, top program, whatever. Especially when you compare them to Texas circa 2019.

You made a bad, dumb argument. Admit it and move on.

I’m way too lazy to go back and follow the origin of this argument but lol Florida is NOT anywhere close to a blue blood program.

I think it’s debatable whether Texas is a true blue blood.

[alincoln 2371]

Posters on surly also earnestly argue that athletics aren't a priority at UT despite having the largest athletics budget of any educational institution in the world.  

 

[alincoln 2371]

2 minutes ago, Landomatic said:

However, I think the references to "blue blood" in this context pertain college football juggernaut programs which require a certain level of very unique head coaching experience to navigate.

The advantages afforded to the Texas HC by the unparalleled in-state recruiting base, joke of a conference and pushover local media certainly aren't outweighed by having to deal with the dreaded Texas BMDs that Mack Brown carried around in his pocket like so many nickels and dimes. 

[closetojumping 62565]

The reality is that anyone walking around at this point thinking that Texas has some moral high ground or needs to keep holding that is either incredibly uninformed or completely disingenuous. Texas allowed a head coach to bully the media, cover-up serial sexual harrassment, and run an unsupervised fiefdom for almost 20 years. So he didn’t buy players? Ok. Barnes and Shaka Smart have been buying players since the early 2000s. Does the school’s integrity only matter with football?

I have bad news if that is the case. Whatever the sins were of Mack Brown, which so many offline and in the higher booster ranks will defend, Tom Herman is worse and so was Chuckles. Chuckles was a philanderer and he had his assistants involved with academic scams and non-state-of-Texas money funneling. That’s nothing compared to Herman. Herman’s modeling his program after shit he learned from Meyer. He’s failing at it and whiffing on key parts that could make it elite (staff), but he’s taking other lessons to heart. He hired a rape-enabler without apology and has empowered the guy. He’s gotten numerous recruits and players out of legal harm (Mack Brown also did this with impunity). He’s magically landed top 5 recruiting classes surrounded by recruiting cheaters on all sides. He’s dealt with street agents willingly. What exactly is it that hasn’t been done within the program to this point outside of a slush fund, institutionalized rape enablement, hiding a serial child rapist, or having the starting qb busted for dealing coke while a starting defensive back fires off an uzi while swinging from a chandelier? How could things possibly get any worse? We’re standing at the threshold of hell with this guy. He’s a piece of shit who also isn’t winning. 

Don’t break your necks falling off of your high horses. It’s a steep drop once you get a grasp of the situation, no doubt. 

[Rockethorn1978 6072]

So long story short hire urban.

[CfRhTxStBobcats 600]

7 hours ago, GotThatFire said:

I’m 35 and nothing in my lifetime leads me to believe UT would ever make an “Urban Meyer / Nick Saban type” hire. 

 

Well come back in 7 years when you're a man. 

[alincoln 2371]

9 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

The reality is that anyone walking around at this point thinking that Texas has some moral high ground or needs to keep holding that is either incredibly uninformed or completely disingenuous. Texas allowed a head coach to bully the media, cover-up serial sexual harrassment, and run an unsupervised fiefdom for almost 20 years. So he didn’t buy players? Ok. Barnes and Shaka Smart have been buying players since the early 2000s. Does the school’s integrity only matter with football?

I have bad news if that is the case. Whatever the sins were of Mack Brown, which so many offline and in the higher booster ranks will defend, Tom Herman is worse and so was Chuckles. Chuckles was a philanderer and he had his assistants involved with academic scams and non-state-of-Texas money funneling. That’s nothing compared to Herman. Herman’s modeling his program after shit he learned from Meyer. He’s failing at it and whiffing on key parts that could make it elite (staff), but he’s taking other lessons to heart. He hired a rape-enabler without apology and has empowered the guy. He’s gotten numerous recruits and players out of legal harm (Mack Brown also did this with impunity). He’s magically landed top 5 recruiting classes surrounded by recruiting cheaters on all sides. He’s dealt with street agents willingly. What exactly is it that hasn’t been done within the program to this point outside of a slush fund, institutionalized rape enablement, hiding a serial child rapist, or having the starting qb busted for dealing coke while a starting defensive back fires off an uzi while swinging from a chandelier? How could things possibly get any worse? We’re standing at the threshold of hell with this guy. He’s a piece of shit who also isn’t winning. 

Don’t break your necks falling off of your high horses. It’s a steep drop once you get a grasp of the situation, no doubt. 

Yup.  We hired the homeless man's Urban Meyer but want to maintain the illusion that we are running an Ivy League program in Austin. 

[Landomatic 3813]

1 minute ago, alincoln said:

having to deal with the dreaded Texas BMDs that Mack Brown carried around in his pocket like so many nickels and dimes. 

I don't think Texas is much different in this regard than many of the other blue blood programs around the country.  They all have huge BMDs with huge egos who expect to have access to getting their asses kissed by the HFC in exchange for their donations.  It's part of the job at this level and a part that very few head coaches have the ability/experience/desire to be able to effectively navigate while balancing it with all of the other demands of the job, like recruiting and...you know...actual coaching.  It was Mack's strong-suit.

[alincoln 2371]

Just now, Landomatic said:

I don't think Texas is much different in this regard than many of the other blue blood programs around the country.  They all have huge BMDs with huge egos who expect to have access to getting their asses kissed by the HFC in exchange for their donations.  It's part of the job at this level and a part that very few head coaches have the ability/experience/desire to be able to effectively navigate while balancing it with all of the other demands of the job, like recruiting and...you know...actual coaching.  It was Mack's strong-suit.

There are several ways of dealing with BMDs.  Meyer and Saban placate them by winning big and having dedicated staffers create the illusion of access.  Mack placated them through actual access.  The boosters at Ohio State were much more of a problem for coaches who didn't beat Michigan every year.

[DaysOff 7947]

I think winning is more important to that half of the fan base than morality. But only by a 51/49 split. They really, really, really like being able to point out how our shit is less stinky and more pleasantly tapered than Alabama or Ohio State's. Having that moral superiority gives them a really warm glow, warm enough to make up for not winning shit for fifteen years.

Hold those craft beer farts just a few more years folks the Michigan series is coming soon. I don't do road games anymore, but this one will be too good to miss. The aromatic rosy smell of 108,000 as we laugh together at lesser institutions in Ohio and Oklahoma that play meaningful football in November, December, and January. 6-6 is where it's at.

[Landomatic 3813]

8 minutes ago, alincoln said:

There are several ways of dealing with BMDs.  Meyer and Saban placate them by winning big and having dedicated staffers create the illusion of access.  Mack placated them through actual access.  The boosters at Ohio State were much more of a problem for coaches who didn't beat Michigan every year.

No doubt.  And the point of this whole thing is that Urban Meyer, who is currently not coaching anywhere, ergo available to hire, has already proven that he can deal with it at this level and win while doing it.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Landomatic

[DaysOff 7947]

There are several ways of dealing with BMDs.  Meyer and Saban placate them by winning big and having dedicated staffers create the illusion of access.  Mack placated them through actual access.  The boosters at Ohio State were much more of a problem for coaches who didn't beat Michigan every year.

Does Riley have to deal with that shit? Are there bmds in Oklahoma besides toby keith? The institution exists singularly to serve the football program.

[Landomatic 3813]

23 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

or having the starting qb busted for dealing coke while a starting defensive back fires off an uzi while swinging from a chandelier?

this part deserves extra love

[Let 'Em Hang 27]

BMD's are a whole lot easier to deal with when you win.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

25 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

The reality is that anyone walking around at this point thinking that Texas has some moral high ground or needs to keep holding that is either incredibly uninformed or completely disingenuous. Texas allowed a head coach to bully the media, cover-up serial sexual harrassment, and run an unsupervised fiefdom for almost 20 years. So he didn’t buy players? Ok. Barnes and Shaka Smart have been buying players since the early 2000s. Does the school’s integrity only matter with football?

I have bad news if that is the case. Whatever the sins were of Mack Brown, which so many offline and in the higher booster ranks will defend, Tom Herman is worse and so was Chuckles. Chuckles was a philanderer and he had his assistants involved with academic scams and non-state-of-Texas money funneling. That’s nothing compared to Herman. Herman’s modeling his program after shit he learned from Meyer. He’s failing at it and whiffing on key parts that could make it elite (staff), but he’s taking other lessons to heart. He hired a rape-enabler without apology and has empowered the guy. He’s gotten numerous recruits and players out of legal harm (Mack Brown also did this with impunity). He’s magically landed top 5 recruiting classes surrounded by recruiting cheaters on all sides. He’s dealt with street agents willingly. What exactly is it that hasn’t been done within the program to this point outside of a slush fund, institutionalized rape enablement, hiding a serial child rapist, or having the starting qb busted for dealing coke while a starting defensive back fires off an uzi while swinging from a chandelier? How could things possibly get any worse? We’re standing at the threshold of hell with this guy. He’s a piece of shit who also isn’t winning. 

Don’t break your necks falling off of your high horses. It’s a steep drop once you get a grasp of the situation, no doubt. 

Counterpoint: Aaron Hernandez played at Florida.

plenty of daylight between Herman and satan himself, Urban Meyer. 

[SurlyORama 164]

21 hours ago, Landomatic said:

What is your conviction?

My conviction is that Urban is by far the best available option for turning UT football around and it's not even close.  
 

...

Don't see how you could possibly argue with any of that.

(Not directed at you specifically, Lando)

How many of you who share this opinion were outraged during UM’s scandal at OSU, and believed at the time that he should be fired for what happened under him? For those that did, what changed to make you then want him at UT? Was it a long game, where getting fired made him available? Didn’t seem like the sentiment at the time, at least overall. 

[Landomatic 3813]

6 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

15 minutes ago, alincoln said:

There are several ways of dealing with BMDs.  Meyer and Saban placate them by winning big and having dedicated staffers create the illusion of access.  Mack placated them through actual access.  The boosters at Ohio State were much more of a problem for coaches who didn't beat Michigan every year.

Does Riley have to deal with that shit? Are there bmds in Oklahoma besides toby keith? The institution exists singularly to serve the football program.

Yeah, Riley has to deal with that shit.  Maybe not quite to the level of UT, but that shit exists at every big program.  And there are much bigger fish at ousux than Toby Keith.  I don't know all the people involved and ins-and-outs specifically, but the Gaylord family comes to mind.  Toby Keith is probably more like Matthew McConaughey.  Yeah, they've got a famous face and a large presence around the program, but when it comes to actual donations and expecting personal access/input in exchange, I don't think they rank very high.  Guessing they can both trade their fame straight up for all the access they want.  Probably both more along the lines of "yeah man just get me on the sideline and into some practices and feel free to use my likeness to help promote the program all you want and I'm cool"

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

10 minutes ago, SurlyORama said:

(Not directed at you specifically, Lando)

How many of you who share this opinion were outraged during UM’s scandal at OSU, and believed at the time that he should be fired for what happened under him? For those that did, what changed to make you then want him at UT? Was it a long game, where getting fired made him available? Didn’t seem like the sentiment at the time, at least overall. 

As my buddy said to me:

Fuck Urban. Unless he’s our coach.

[Surlybastard 65]

9 hours ago, Augustus said:

Never ceases to amaze me how fans are so confident about what's going on in the mind of a person they've never met.  For some reason, this particular poster has incredible insight as to where Urban Meyer would/wouldn't be willing to live, in exchange for tens of millions of dollars and an opportunity to do the thing he loves doing, is clearly one of the best ever at doing, at a school with blue blood status and everything he needs to win more rings.

For the record, I have to side with the Surly contingent who believe that UT should never hire Urban Meyer.  Ever.

 

 

He can make tens of millions of dollars coaching anywhere he wants to. Nothing I wrote requires having incredible insight into anyone's mind either. Its a simple matter of comparing Norman, Oklahoma and the surrounding areas to most any other place a guy worth millions and his wife might want to spend 7-10 years of their lives in. So for the record, fuck off with your pompous bullshit.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Surlybastard

[jet black 203]

As my buddy said to me:
Fuck Urban. Unless he’s our coach.

Exactly. And everyone already hates Texas anyway so who gives a shit if people say bad things when we hire him.

[BradInATX 9208]

2 hours ago, Landomatic said:

Not trying to wiggle out of anything, just stating facts.  You've already shown you can't read, now you've just shown you don't know what you're talking about.  Florida is not considered (by most that I've ever encountered) to be a "blue blood" college football program.  There are 8 of them (alabama, ousux, notre dame, ohio st, michigan, nebraska, usc and TEXAS).  When I said there hasn't been a blue blood that's won a national championship with a prospect, unproven coach since Mack did it for UT damn near 20 years ago, and that a lot has changed in college football since then, I was right.  Now, if you had wanted to add to that and say, "okay, maybe not a blue blood, but florida did it with Urban since then and clemson has done it with Dabo since then, you too would have been right.  But you didn't.  Instead, you twisted my words and went with childish "you're terrible and dumb" type arguments.  Act like an unintelligent, petulant child and you'll get treated as such.

I'm not acting in any way other than pointing out that you're wrong. Making the argument of "you said 'top programs' and I said 'blue bloods' so you're wrong!" is the only childish thing happening here.

Either way, let's look at your eight "blue bloods" that you've somehow arbitrarily defined as such, and your 20 year time period, which you arbitrarily chose. Even using your silly parameters, your argument is still laughably terrible.

- Bob Stoops won in 2000, two years removed from being a defensive coordinator at non-blueblood Florida. 
- Pete Carroll won in 2004, and was the definition of "prospect, unproven coach". Prior to USC, he hadn't coached in college football in nearly 20 years, and was only a defensive coordinator in college. He was also largely unsuccessful in the NFL.
- Jim Tressel won in 2002, two years removed from Youngstown State.

- And of course Mack

The only other coaches of your "blue blood" group that have won it are Saban and Meyer. 

So a full four out of the six coaches that have won championships by the standards defined by you were unproven when they were hired. You are wrong. 

Look forward to seeing how you move the goalposts next.

Edited November 27, 2019 by BradInATX

[Landomatic 3813]

13 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I'm not acting in any way other than pointing out that you're wrong. Making the argument of "you said 'top programs' and I said 'blue bloods' so you're wrong!" is the only childish thing happening here.

Either way, let's look at your eight "blue bloods" that you've somehow arbitrarily defined as such, and your 20 year time period, which you arbitrarily chose. Even using your silly parameters, your argument is still laughably terrible.

- Bob Stoops won in 2000, two years removed from being a defensive coordinator at non-blueblood Florida. 
- Pete Carroll won in 2004, and was the definition of "prospect, unproven coach". Prior to USC, he hadn't coached in college football in nearly 20 years, and was only a defensive coordinator in college. He was also largely unsuccessful in the NFL.
- Jim Tressel won in 2002, two years removed from Youngstown State.

- And of course Mack

The only other coaches of your "blue blood" group that have won it are Saban and Meyer. 

So a full four out of the six coaches that have won championships by the standards defined by you were unproven when they were hired. You are wrong. 

Look forward to seeing how you move the goalposts next.

I'm not moving the goal posts at all.  Very simply, I stated that a blue blood program hasn't won a national championship without a previously proven coach since Mack, which was almost 20 years ago and a lot has changed since then.

Eight blue blood programs weren't arbitrarily chosen by me, they are very commonly defined and accepted as such by anyone who knows anything about college football.  And the last 20 years wasn't arbitrarily chosen by me, as my point was that it hasn't been done in the last 20 years.

My original point stands and I haven't wavered from that.  You have since...

1. Tried claiming I said "top" program, not "blue blood" program in a failed attempt at making your point
2. Tried claiming Florida is a blue blood program in a failed attempt at making your point
3. Decided to add 3 more coaches prior to Mack in a failed attempt at making your point

You may want to look up the meaning of "move the goalposts".  You may also want to look up the meaning of "arbitrarily" while you're at it.

I don't usually waste time arguing on the internet with people of such low intellect, but this one has just been too damn easy.

Again, run along now and let the grownups talk.

[closetojumping 62565]

39 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I'm not acting in any way other than pointing out that you're wrong. Making the argument of "you said 'top programs' and I said 'blue bloods' so you're wrong!" is the only childish thing happening here.

Either way, let's look at your eight "blue bloods" that you've somehow arbitrarily defined as such, and your 20 year time period, which you arbitrarily chose. Even using your silly parameters, your argument is still laughably terrible.

- Bob Stoops won in 2000, two years removed from being a defensive coordinator at non-blueblood Florida. 
- Pete Carroll won in 2004, and was the definition of "prospect, unproven coach". Prior to USC, he hadn't coached in college football in nearly 20 years, and was only a defensive coordinator in college. He was also largely unsuccessful in the NFL.
- Jim Tressel won in 2002, two years removed from Youngstown State.

- And of course Mack

The only other coaches of your "blue blood" group that have won it are Saban and Meyer. 

So a full four out of the six coaches that have won championships by the standards defined by you were unproven when they were hired. You are wrong. 

Look forward to seeing how you move the goalposts next.

All you have to do is a simple google search to figure out what a fucking idiot you’re making of yourself on this thread. You are a college football retard if you can’t figure out that the other guy wasn’t being arbitrary at all, clownface. Stop muddying up this thread with your willful ignorance. Fuck. 

[Let 'Em Hang 27]

I don't know about you guys, but I feel a lot of love in this room

[Old Freak Nasty 821]

1 hour ago, SurlyORama said:

How many of you who share this opinion were outraged during UM’s scandal at OSU, and believed at the time that he should be fired for what happened under him? For those that did, what changed to make you then want him at UT? Was it a long game, where getting fired made him available? Didn’t seem like the sentiment at the time, at least overall.

I think Meyer is a POS human and under normal circumstances would never want him as coach here either, but we are already employing a JV version of him who can't win.  By tolerating Herman, the admin doesn't stand on an ethical platform that allows them to eliminate Meyer from consideration.  That's my reasoning for being okay with a Meyer hire.

That said, I'd much prefer a likable, empathetic, mediocre HC like Strong who's cheating isn't all that bad.  Win 8-9 games most years, throw in an occasional 10-11 win season, beat OU every three years and I'll sleep better than winning championships with Meyer and rapists.

Herman gives you the worst of Strong and Meyer.

[G650 14243]

2 hours ago, closetojumping said:

The reality is that anyone walking around at this point thinking that Texas has some moral high ground or needs to keep holding that is either incredibly uninformed or completely disingenuous. Texas allowed a head coach to bully the media, cover-up serial sexual harrassment, and run an unsupervised fiefdom for almost 20 years. So he didn’t buy players? Ok. Barnes and Shaka Smart have been buying players since the early 2000s. Does the school’s integrity only matter with football?

I have bad news if that is the case. Whatever the sins were of Mack Brown, which so many offline and in the higher booster ranks will defend, Tom Herman is worse and so was Chuckles. Chuckles was a philanderer and he had his assistants involved with academic scams and non-state-of-Texas money funneling. That’s nothing compared to Herman. Herman’s modeling his program after shit he learned from Meyer. He’s failing at it and whiffing on key parts that could make it elite (staff), but he’s taking other lessons to heart. He hired a rape-enabler without apology and has empowered the guy. He’s gotten numerous recruits and players out of legal harm (Mack Brown also did this with impunity). He’s magically landed top 5 recruiting classes surrounded by recruiting cheaters on all sides. He’s dealt with street agents willingly. What exactly is it that hasn’t been done within the program to this point outside of a slush fund, institutionalized rape enablement, hiding a serial child rapist, or having the starting qb busted for dealing coke while a starting defensive back fires off an uzi while swinging from a chandelier? How could things possibly get any worse? We’re standing at the threshold of hell with this guy. He’s a piece of shit who also isn’t winning. 

Don’t break your necks falling off of your high horses. It’s a steep drop once you get a grasp of the situation, no doubt. 

Troof.

[C-Man 27191]

3 hours ago, Landomatic said:

Not trying to wiggle out of anything, just stating facts.  You've already shown you can't read, now you've just shown you don't know what you're talking about.  Florida is not considered (by most that I've ever encountered) to be a "blue blood" college football program.  There are 8 of them (alabama, ousux, notre dame, ohio st, michigan, nebraska, usc and TEXAS).  When I said there hasn't been a blue blood that's won a national championship with a prospect, unproven coach since Mack did it for UT damn near 20 years ago, and that a lot has changed in college football since then, I was right.  Now, if you had wanted to add to that and say, "okay, maybe not a blue blood, but florida did it with Urban since then and clemson has done it with Dabo since then, you too would have been right.  But you didn't.  Instead, you twisted my words and went with childish "you're terrible and dumb" type arguments.  Act like an unintelligent, petulant child and you'll get treated as such.

 

2 hours ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

I’m way too lazy to go back and follow the origin of this argument but lol Florida is NOT anywhere close to a blue blood program.

I think it’s debatable whether Texas is a true blue blood.

I don't want to get into the blue/non-blue blood pissing match at this point but let's look at a hypothetical situation. Successful coach -- G5, P5, coming back from NFL, whatever -- is looking at jobs. Nebraska and Florida are both open. Our hypothetical coach can land either job. There isn't a coach in America who would take the Nebraska job over Florida. Not one.

[BradInATX 9208]

38 minutes ago, Landomatic said:

I'm not moving the goal posts at all.  Very simply, I stated that a blue blood program hasn't won a national championship without a previously proven coach since Mack, which was almost 20 years ago and a lot has changed since then.

Eight blue blood programs weren't arbitrarily chosen by me, they are very commonly defined and accepted as such by anyone who knows anything about college football.  And the last 20 years wasn't arbitrarily chosen by me, as my point was that it hasn't been done in the last 20 years.

My original point stands and I haven't wavered from that.  You have since...

1. Tried claiming I said "top" program, not "blue blood" program in a failed attempt at making your point
2. Tried claiming Florida is a blue blood program in a failed attempt at making your point
3. Decided to add 3 more coaches prior to Mack in a failed attempt at making your point

You may want to look up the meaning of "move the goalposts".  You may also want to look up the meaning of "arbitrarily" while you're at it.

I don't usually waste time arguing on the internet with people of such low intellect, but this one has just been too damn easy.

Again, run along now and let the grownups talk.

Do you have anything to say about the fact that four of the six blueblood coaches that have won championships in the past 20 years (which was your original timeframe) were unproven when they started?

Or are you conceding that your original point was wrong and that you're just here to play semantic games?

As predicted, goalposts moved. First you said 20 years. Now you're saying "since Mack", which was 13 years ago, not 20. Keep trying, son.

Edited November 27, 2019 by BradInATX

[ShowMeALoss 143]

Holy cow, almost everyone in this board and other boards not associated with OSU wanted Urban fired for covering up the domestic abuse by Zach Smith. Did we just want him out of OSU so that we could hire him? Yikes!

[Steelers Roll Left 1167]

10 hours ago, GotThatFire said:

I’m 35 and nothing in my lifetime leads me to believe UT would ever make an “Urban Meyer / Nick Saban type” hire. 

 

I'm 43, and there's much truth to what you say, though there's a lot of evidence that UT was about to hire Saban before Mack mucked up the move on the way out.  Doesn't mean UT is right on this one though.  You simply can't tell me you're doing everything in your power to win if you pass on opportunities at hiring the most proven coaches in the biz on the chance that your current coach "might" one day reach their levels.   

[C-Man 27191]

2 hours ago, closetojumping said:

The reality is that anyone walking around at this point thinking that Texas has some moral high ground or needs to keep holding that is either incredibly uninformed or completely disingenuous. Texas allowed a head coach to bully the media, cover-up serial sexual harrassment, and run an unsupervised fiefdom for almost 20 years. So he didn’t buy players? Ok. Barnes and Shaka Smart have been buying players since the early 2000s. Does the school’s integrity only matter with football?

I have bad news if that is the case. Whatever the sins were of Mack Brown, which so many offline and in the higher booster ranks will defend, Tom Herman is worse and so was Chuckles. Chuckles was a philanderer and he had his assistants involved with academic scams and non-state-of-Texas money funneling. That’s nothing compared to Herman. Herman’s modeling his program after shit he learned from Meyer. He’s failing at it and whiffing on key parts that could make it elite (staff), but he’s taking other lessons to heart. He hired a rape-enabler without apology and has empowered the guy. He’s gotten numerous recruits and players out of legal harm (Mack Brown also did this with impunity). He’s magically landed top 5 recruiting classes surrounded by recruiting cheaters on all sides. He’s dealt with street agents willingly. What exactly is it that hasn’t been done within the program to this point outside of a slush fund, institutionalized rape enablement, hiding a serial child rapist, or having the starting qb busted for dealing coke while a starting defensive back fires off an uzi while swinging from a chandelier? How could things possibly get any worse? We’re standing at the threshold of hell with this guy. He’s a piece of shit who also isn’t winning. 

Don’t break your necks falling off of your high horses. It’s a steep drop once you get a grasp of the situation, no doubt. 

[wood 11225]

5 hours ago, Bevo VIII said:

Do you not live in Texas?

Yeah, for 40+ years. Outside of being at a game, I think I can remember one time some toofless aggy talked some shit like that. He got the expected response and slithered off. 

[BERT 4358]

3 hours ago, closetojumping said:

The reality is that anyone walking around at this point thinking that Texas has some moral high ground or needs to keep holding that is either incredibly uninformed or completely disingenuous. Texas allowed a head coach to bully the media, cover-up serial sexual harrassment, and run an unsupervised fiefdom for almost 20 years. So he didn’t buy players? Ok. Barnes and Shaka Smart have been buying players since the early 2000s. Does the school’s integrity only matter with football?

I have bad news if that is the case. Whatever the sins were of Mack Brown, which so many offline and in the higher booster ranks will defend, Tom Herman is worse and so was Chuckles. Chuckles was a philanderer and he had his assistants involved with academic scams and non-state-of-Texas money funneling. That’s nothing compared to Herman. Herman’s modeling his program after shit he learned from Meyer. He’s failing at it and whiffing on key parts that could make it elite (staff), but he’s taking other lessons to heart. He hired a rape-enabler without apology and has empowered the guy. He’s gotten numerous recruits and players out of legal harm (Mack Brown also did this with impunity). He’s magically landed top 5 recruiting classes surrounded by recruiting cheaters on all sides. He’s dealt with street agents willingly. What exactly is it that hasn’t been done within the program to this point outside of a slush fund, institutionalized rape enablement, hiding a serial child rapist, or having the starting qb busted for dealing coke while a starting defensive back fires off an uzi while swinging from a chandelier? How could things possibly get any worse? We’re standing at the threshold of hell with this guy. He’s a piece of shit who also isn’t winning. 

Don’t break your necks falling off of your high horses. It’s a steep drop once you get a grasp of the situation, no doubt. 

 

"Worse? How can this get any worse? Look around you, Ellen! We're at the threshold of hell!!!" 

[Junior Miller 1502]

23 hours ago, ShowMeALoss said:

 I remember Dick Thaler telling our MBA class at Chicago never to have hypothetical arguments because even if you win the argument, there is no real reward.

Good thing Einstein, Newton, Turing, and every other influential thinker from the last 10000 years didn't follow stupid ass advice from Dick Thaler or else we'd all be still living on prairies breaking rocks with stone tools and foraging for berries. 

[alincoln 2371]

4 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

Good thing Einstein, Newton, Turing, and every other influential thinker from the last 10000 years didn't follow stupid ass advice from Dick Thaler or else we'd all be still living on prairies breaking rocks with stone tools and foraging for berries. 

You're missing the point of his post . . . informing the Board he went to Booth

[Junior Miller 1502]

3 minutes ago, alincoln said:

You're missing the point of his post . . . informing the Board he went to Booth

I caught that, but if dumb shit advice like that is what they teach he needs to ask for a refund on his daddy's money. 

[closetojumping 62565]

16 minutes ago, BERT said:

 

"Worse? How can this get any worse? Look around you, Ellen! We're at the threshold of hell!!!" 

Hahahaha. I can never tell whether it is funnier to me when the easter egg is appreciated or when it is totally missed/ignored. I feel I do it almost every post and need to go find some original material, but it’s fun. 

[C-Man 27191]

8 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

First you said 20 years. Now you're saying "since Mack", which was 13 years ago, not 20. Keep trying, son.

I think he actually said "nearly 20 years ago" and he's not that far off. It was 15 seasons ago that Texas won the NC.

And let's look at Lando's eight blue-blood programs and when they won their last titles:

• Alabama 2017 (Nick Saban)
• Ohio State 2014 (Urban Meyer)
• Texas 2005 (Mack Brown)
• USC 2004 (Pete Carroll)
• Oklahoma 2000 (Bob Stoops)
• Notre Dame 1988 (Lou Holtz)
• Michigan 1997 (Lloyd Carr)
• Nebraska 1997 (Tom Osborne)

Here's a chart of the NC winners going back to Notre Dame's last title (with my comments about the HC in bold):

Year	National Champion	Heisman Trophy
2019
2018	Clemson (AP, CFP) DABO SWINNEY (promoted from asst coach, wasn't even coordinator when Terry Bowden was fired; interim HC for one season)	Kyler Murray
2017	Alabama (AP, CFP) NICK SABAN (came from Miami Dolphins, previous NC winner at LSU and coached Mich St and DC for Belichick @ Browns)	Baker Mayfield
2016	Clemson (AP, CFP) SWINNEY	Lamar Jackson
2015	Alabama (AP, CFP) SABAN	Derrick Henry
2014	Ohio State (AP, CFP) URBAN MEYER (came from Florida)	Marcus Mariota
2013	Florida State (AP, BCS, FWAA, NFF, USA) JIMBO FISHER (HCIW for Bowden, NC winning OC to Saban at LSU)	Jameis Winston
2012	Alabama (AP, BCS, FWAA, NFF, USA) SABAN	Johnny Manziel
2011	Alabama (AP, BCS, FWAA, NFF, USA) SABAN	Robert Griffin III
2010	Auburn (AP, BCS, FWAA, NFF, USA) GENE CHIZIK (thank you, Cam Newton; short stint as DC at UT, 5-19 as HC at Iowa St, 22-36 career other than '10 season)	Cam Newton
2009	Alabama (AP, BCS, FWAA, NFF, USA) SABAN	Mark Ingram
2008	Florida (AP, BCS, FWAA, NFF, USA) MEYER	Sam Bradford
2007	LSU (AP, BCS, FWAA, NFF, USA) LES MILES (2-loss champ; replaced Saban after going 28-21 at OkSt)	Tim Tebow
2006	Florida (AP, BCS, FWAA, NFF, USA) MEYER (first MNC, successful HC at Bowling Green and undefeated year at Utah)	Troy Smith
2005	Texas (AP, BCS, FWAA, NFF, USA) MACK BROWN (came from successful North Carolina, HC at Tulane; most feel he underachieved slightly at UT)	Reggie Bush
2004	USC (AP, BCS, FWAA, NFF, USA-ESPN) PETE CARROLL (Bill Walsh disciple, semi-failed NFL coach; future SB-winning HC)	Matt Leinart
2003	LSU (BCS, NFF, USA-ESPN), USC (AP, FWAA) SABAN	Jason White
2002	Ohio State (AP, BCS, FWAA, NFF, USA-ESPN) JIM TRESSEL (won 4 D1-AA titles in 7 yrs at Youngstown)	Carson Palmer
2001	Miami (FL) (AP, BCS, FWAA, NFF, USA-ESPN) LARRY COKER (asst to Butch Davis; stayed on when Butch left for Brown; OC for powerful OkSt OFF 83-89)	Eric Crouch
2000	Oklahoma (AP, BCS, FWAA, NFF, USA-ESPN) BOB STOOPS (wunderkind, 1-year DC for Spurrier; Bill Snyder protege)	Chris Weinke
1999	Florida State (AP, BCS, FWAA, NFF, USA-ESPN) BOBBY BOWDEN (built FSU juggernaut after 42-26 run as WVU HC)	Ron Dayne
1998	Tennessee (AP, BCS, FWAA, NFF, USA-ESPN) PHIL FULMER (basically Tennessee lifer; promoted from OC for Majors)	Ricky Williams
1997	Michigan (AP, FWAA, NFF), Nebraska (USA-ESPN) LLOYD CARR (15-YR Michigan asst coach, last as DC for Bo)	Charles Woodson
1996	Florida (AP, FWAA, NFF, USA-CNN) STEVE SPURRIER (won Heisman at UF, asst CFB coach, USFL HC, Duke HC then UF HC)	Danny Wuerffel
1995	Nebraska (AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI, USA-CNN) TOM OSBORNE (never coached anywhere else; was OC under Devaney 69-72)	Eddie George
1994	Nebraska (AP, FWAA, UPI, USA-CNN, USA-NFF) OSBORNE	Rashaan Salaam
1993	Florida State (AP, FWAA, UPI, USA-CNN, USA-NFF) BOWDEN	Charlie Ward
1992	Alabama (AP, FWAA, UPI-NFF, USA-CNN) GENE STALLINGS (minimal success as aggy HC, longtime Cowboys asst, loser NFL HC b4 Bama)	Gino Torretta
1991	Washington (FWAA, UPI-NFF, USA-CNN), Miami (FL) (AP) DON JAMES (short stint as DC of Mich/Colo, 4-5 run as HC at Kent; 18 YRS at UW) and ERICKSON	Desmond Howard
1990	Colorado (AP, FWAA, NFF, USA-CNN), Georgia Tech (UPI) BILL McCARTNEY (Mich asst coach, Colo HC from 82-94) and BOBBY ROSS (decent run as Maryland HC)	Ty Detmer
Year	National Champion	Heisman Trophy
1989	Miami (FL) (AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI, USA-CNN) DENNIS ERICKSON (hired to replace Jimmy; 18-16-1 in three seasons as HC at WYO and Wazzu (9-3 last YR)	Andre Ware
1988	Notre Dame (AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI, USA-CNN) LOU HOLTZ (hired after some middling seasons at MINN but a very good run at Arkansas previously)	Barry Sand

The only coaches on this list of national champs had won a title at a previous stop are Saban and Meyer.

[ShowMeALoss 143]

17 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

Good thing Einstein, Newton, Turing, and every other influential thinker from the last 10000 years didn't follow stupid ass advice from Dick Thaler or else we'd all be still living on prairies breaking rocks with stone tools and foraging for berries. 

I think you are missing the point here. A hypothetical argument about what you would do if a certain thing were to happen is pointless because most times you end up pissing each other off. Thaler's advice was related to what he called "keys to marital bliss." I find many of those advice apply to real life decision making as well. 

[ShowMeALoss 143]

14 minutes ago, alincoln said:

You're missing the point of his post . . . informing the Board he went to Booth

Was that wrong? Should I not have done that? 

[BradInATX 9208]

5 minutes ago, C-Man said:

I think he actually said "nearly 20 years ago" and he's not that far off. It was 15 seasons ago that Texas won the NC.

And let's look at Lando's eight blue-blood programs and when they won their last titles:

• Alabama 2017 (Nick Saban)
• Ohio State 2014 (Urban Meyer)
• Texas 2005 (Mack Brown)
• USC 2004 (Pete Carroll)
• Oklahoma 2000 (Bob Stoops)
• Notre Dame 1988 (Lou Holtz)
• Michigan 1997 (Lloyd Carr)
• Nebraska 1997 (Tom Osborne)

Here's a chart of the NC winners going back to Notre Dame's last title (with my comments about the HC in bold):

Year	National Champion	Heisman Trophy
2019
2018	Clemson (AP, CFP) DABO SWINNEY (promoted from asst coach, wasn't even coordinator when Terry Bowden was fired; interim HC for one season)	Kyler Murray
2017	Alabama (AP, CFP) NICK SABAN (came from Miami Dolphins, previous NC winner at LSU and coached Mich St and DC for Belichick @ Browns)	Baker Mayfield
2016	Clemson (AP, CFP) SWINNEY	Lamar Jackson
2015	Alabama (AP, CFP) SABAN	Derrick Henry
2014	Ohio State (AP, CFP) URBAN MEYER (came from Florida)	Marcus Mariota
2013	Florida State (AP, BCS, FWAA, NFF, USA) JIMBO FISHER (HCIW for Bowden, NC winning OC to Saban at LSU)	Jameis Winston
2012	Alabama (AP, BCS, FWAA, NFF, USA) SABAN	Johnny Manziel
2011	Alabama (AP, BCS, FWAA, NFF, USA) SABAN	Robert Griffin III
2010	Auburn (AP, BCS, FWAA, NFF, USA) GENE CHIZIK (thank you, Cam Newton; short stint as DC at UT, 5-19 as HC at Iowa St, 22-36 career other than '10 season)	Cam Newton
2009	Alabama (AP, BCS, FWAA, NFF, USA) SABAN	Mark Ingram
2008	Florida (AP, BCS, FWAA, NFF, USA) MEYER	Sam Bradford
2007	LSU (AP, BCS, FWAA, NFF, USA) LES MILES (2-loss champ; replaced Saban after going 28-21 at OkSt)	Tim Tebow
2006	Florida (AP, BCS, FWAA, NFF, USA) MEYER (first MNC, successful HC at Bowling Green and undefeated year at Utah)	Troy Smith
2005	Texas (AP, BCS, FWAA, NFF, USA) MACK BROWN (came from successful North Carolina, HC at Tulane; most feel he underachieved slightly at UT)	Reggie Bush
2004	USC (AP, BCS, FWAA, NFF, USA-ESPN) PETE CARROLL (Bill Walsh disciple, semi-failed NFL coach; future SB-winning HC)	Matt Leinart
2003	LSU (BCS, NFF, USA-ESPN), USC (AP, FWAA) SABAN	Jason White
2002	Ohio State (AP, BCS, FWAA, NFF, USA-ESPN) JIM TRESSEL (won 4 D1-AA titles in 7 yrs at Youngstown)	Carson Palmer
2001	Miami (FL) (AP, BCS, FWAA, NFF, USA-ESPN) LARRY COKER (asst to Butch Davis; stayed on when Butch left for Brown; OC for powerful OkSt OFF 83-89)	Eric Crouch
2000	Oklahoma (AP, BCS, FWAA, NFF, USA-ESPN) BOB STOOPS (wunderkind, 1-year DC for Spurrier; Bill Snyder protege)	Chris Weinke
1999	Florida State (AP, BCS, FWAA, NFF, USA-ESPN) BOBBY BOWDEN (built FSU juggernaut after 42-26 run as WVU HC)	Ron Dayne
1998	Tennessee (AP, BCS, FWAA, NFF, USA-ESPN) PHIL FULMER (basically Tennessee lifer; promoted from OC for Majors)	Ricky Williams
1997	Michigan (AP, FWAA, NFF), Nebraska (USA-ESPN) LLOYD CARR (15-YR Michigan asst coach, last as DC for Bo)	Charles Woodson
1996	Florida (AP, FWAA, NFF, USA-CNN) STEVE SPURRIER (won Heisman at UF, asst CFB coach, USFL HC, Duke HC then UF HC)	Danny Wuerffel
1995	Nebraska (AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI, USA-CNN) TOM OSBORNE (never coached anywhere else; was OC under Devaney 69-72)	Eddie George
1994	Nebraska (AP, FWAA, UPI, USA-CNN, USA-NFF) OSBORNE	Rashaan Salaam
1993	Florida State (AP, FWAA, UPI, USA-CNN, USA-NFF) BOWDEN	Charlie Ward
1992	Alabama (AP, FWAA, UPI-NFF, USA-CNN) GENE STALLINGS (minimal success as aggy HC, longtime Cowboys asst, loser NFL HC b4 Bama)	Gino Torretta
1991	Washington (FWAA, UPI-NFF, USA-CNN), Miami (FL) (AP) DON JAMES (short stint as DC of Mich/Colo, 4-5 run as HC at Kent; 18 YRS at UW) and ERICKSON	Desmond Howard
1990	Colorado (AP, FWAA, NFF, USA-CNN), Georgia Tech (UPI) BILL McCARTNEY (Mich asst coach, Colo HC from 82-94) and BOBBY ROSS (decent run as Maryland HC)	Ty Detmer
Year	National Champion	Heisman Trophy
1989	Miami (FL) (AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI, USA-CNN) DENNIS ERICKSON (hired to replace Jimmy; 18-16-1 in three seasons as HC at WYO and Wazzu (9-3 last YR)	Andre Ware
1988	Notre Dame (AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI, USA-CNN) LOU HOLTZ (hired after some middling seasons at MINN but a very good run at Arkansas previously)	Barry Sand

The only coaches on this list of national champs had won a title at a previous stop are Saban and Meyer.

I realize you're making my point for me, but just for clarification, Texas won the title less than 14 years ago, which is nowhere near the same thing as 20 years. So either Lando was being disingenuous on purpose, or he's too stupid to understand that 2019 - 2006 does not equal 20. 

But yeah, his argument that "unproven coaches don't win championships at blue bloods" is of course wrong. 

All that said, I'm all for Meyer. I just want a coaching search that's intelligently run with purpose and due-diligence. Whether that ends up with Urban, Whittingham, Fleck, or whoever, I just want to know that the process was run thoroughly and not based off of stupid notions like "Herman is our guy without even looking at other guys" or "blue bloods can't win without someone who has won a natty before!11". Do it right, I don't want to go through another four years of this crap.

 

Edited November 27, 2019 by BradInATX

[Landomatic 3813]

1 hour ago, C-Man said:

I don't want to get into the blue/non-blue blood pissing match at this point but let's look at a hypothetical situation. Successful coach -- G5, P5, coming back from NFL, whatever -- is looking at jobs. Nebraska and Florida are both open. Our hypothetical coach can land either job. There isn't a coach in America who would take the Nebraska job over Florida. Not one.

Yeah, no doubt.  And if Texas doesn't do something soon, they may become Nebraska in that hypothetical.  Yikes.

[Spawn of Cthulhu 2241]

3 hours ago, closetojumping said:

The reality is that anyone walking around at this point thinking that Texas has some moral high ground or needs to keep holding that is either incredibly uninformed or completely disingenuous. Texas allowed a head coach to bully the media, cover-up serial sexual harrassment, and run an unsupervised fiefdom for almost 20 years. So he didn’t buy players? Ok. Barnes and Shaka Smart have been buying players since the early 2000s. Does the school’s integrity only matter with football?

I have bad news if that is the case. Whatever the sins were of Mack Brown, which so many offline and in the higher booster ranks will defend, Tom Herman is worse and so was Chuckles. Chuckles was a philanderer and he had his assistants involved with academic scams and non-state-of-Texas money funneling. That’s nothing compared to Herman. Herman’s modeling his program after shit he learned from Meyer. He’s failing at it and whiffing on key parts that could make it elite (staff), but he’s taking other lessons to heart. He hired a rape-enabler without apology and has empowered the guy. He’s gotten numerous recruits and players out of legal harm (Mack Brown also did this with impunity). He’s magically landed top 5 recruiting classes surrounded by recruiting cheaters on all sides. He’s dealt with street agents willingly. What exactly is it that hasn’t been done within the program to this point outside of a slush fund, institutionalized rape enablement, hiding a serial child rapist, or having the starting qb busted for dealing coke while a starting defensive back fires off an uzi while swinging from a chandelier? How could things possibly get any worse? We’re standing at the threshold of hell with this guy. He’s a piece of shit who also isn’t winning. 

Don’t break your necks falling off of your high horses. It’s a steep drop once you get a grasp of the situation, no doubt. 

Does the swinging submachinegunner have any kids? Might be worth a look for us.