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williamson county seizes nearly $300k after pulling over car for "following too closely"


hayden_horn

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https://www.statesman.com/news/20191024/detective-seizes-more-than-294000-in-georgetown-traffic-stop

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A Williamson County sheriff’s detective discovered more than $294,000 in cash hidden in bundles inside a car Tuesday after stopping the vehicle for a traffic violation, an order of seizure said.

Jose Valenzuela, 51, of Waco, was charged with money laundering, a second-degree felony punishable by up to 20 years in prison.

The detective stopped Valenzuela, who was driving a Honda sedan, for following too closely at 8 p.m. Tuesday in the 4900 block of Interstate 35 in Georgetown, the court document said.

Valenzuela told the detective he was driving from Waco to Mexico, and when the the detective asked him how often he went there, Valenzuela said the last time he was in Mexico was three months ago. The detective, however, found out that Valenzuela’s vehicle had crossed the border into Mexico on Oct. 15, according to the document.

After Valenzuela gave the detective permission to search his car, the detective found three bundles of cash underneath the center console, the affidavit said.

The detective also used a dog that pointed to two speaker boxes in the trunk of Valenzuela’s car, the document said. It said the detective found 24 bundles of cash inside the speaker boxes.

Valenzuela said there was $170,000 in cash inside the speakers that he had saved the over 10 years, according to the document.

In total, the officer found more than $294,000 hidden in the vehicle.


It said Valenzuela told the detective that he had a cabinet building business but was not sure he could provide any sort of documents from it that showed the cash in the car was from his business.


READ: More than $200,000 seized in Georgetown traffic stop

Valenzuela also said he was carrying the cash in hidden bundles inside his car because he thought he would be assaulted, robbed or killed if any drug cartel members stopped him in Mexico, the document said.

When the detective asked Valenzuela why he was not using a bank Valenzuela said he had never used banks and had always saved his money in his toolbox at his business, the order of seizure said.

It said the detective then asked Valenzuela why he didn’t allow a financial institution help him transfer money to Mexico if he was so concerned about cartel members.

Valenzuela just said “it was a risk,” the document said.

Valenzuela was being held at the Williamson County Jail Thursday with no bail yet set.

pulled over for following too closely. has cash, but nothing illegal.

cash itself is apparently illegal. charged with money laundering. 

what he actual fuck?

don't you have to prove something illegal happened? it's insane that cops can just seize cash. i don't care if this guy was a drug kingpin or mule. just having cash money should not be illegal

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Cops can take and keep pretty much anything they want.  Just have make up a reason and go get it.
Gotta feed the monkey, man.

Civil asset forfeiture sounds like a term made up in Soviet Russia to just steal whatever the State needed. The fact that it is used so liberally as a tool of law enforcement in this country only highlights how far down the path to tyranny we’ve allowed ourselves to stray.
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Jimmy, there’s $500,000 here. Call it in. 

Sarge, we got $425,000 over here!

Chief, we seized $375,000 at this stop. 

Mr mayor, this traffic stop resulted in a seizure of $320,000.

thank you for coming to this press conference. Today I’m announcing that thanks to the fine work of our outstanding officers, we collected $294,000 in illegal funds and took a dangerous criminal off the streets. 

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This isn't civil asset forfeiture.  He's been charged with a crime directly stemming from the possession of large amounts of cash under suspicious circumstances.

He consented to the search.

Presumably if he is acquitted, the cash will be returned.

Now, there may be something else brewing here, but based on the reports, this is pretty legit.

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1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

This isn't civil asset forfeiture.  He's been charged with a crime directly stemming from the possession of large amounts of cash under suspicious circumstances.

He consented to the search.

Presumably if he is acquitted, the cash will be returned.

Now, there may be something else brewing here, but based on the reports, this is pretty legit.

what is the cutoff for a charge?

how much cash am i allowed to legally carry? why would i need to explain why i have my property, in this case, cash?

i know you have to declare more than $10k to customs when entering the country.

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1 hour ago, hayden_horn said:

A Williamson County sheriff’s detective discovered more than $294,000 in cash hidden in bundles inside a car Tuesday after stopping the vehicle for a traffic violation, an order of seizure said.

Look, I'm all for getting the pitchforks out and heading to the police station on most issues, but let's not pretend everything was hunky dory here. He had 300K hidden in his car. Now that might sound normal to you, but for most people, the old drug money alarm bells are going off. Is Civil Asset Forfeiture a bunch of bullshit? Yes, especially when it incentivizes the police to take your shit. It needs reform if not aboliiton (like in New Mexico), but let's not pretend this is like the Cops taking 10K on the front seat of your car in Vegas after you left a casino. 

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1 minute ago, Neonmoon said:

Look, I'm all for getting the pitchforks out and heading to the police station on most issues, but let's not pretend everything was hunky dory here. He had 300K hidden in his car. Now that might sound normal to you, but for most people, the old drug money alarm bells are going off. Is Civil Asset Forfeiture a bunch of bullshit? Yes, especially when it incentivizes the police to take your shit. It needs reform if not aboliiton (like in New Mexico), but let's not pretend this is like the Cops taking 10K on the front seat of your car in Vegas after you left a casino. 

no i get that, and i understand that the old drug money alarms are going to go off.

and i realize this is an extreme case of a large sum of money. i'm just wondering where the line is drawn for normals like me.  how much responsibility do we have as citizens to explain why we have what we have on our person? how can they prove he was laundering money? why does he have to prove why he's got the money instead of the state proving he was committing a crime?

this is kind of up there with a person being charged with a single charge of "resisting arrest." you shouldn't be able to arrest someone for resisting arrest by itself. "unless you can prove why you have this cash, we are going to charge you with money laundering."

and yes, i also understand that I35 is a corridor for cash and drugs. i'm just sort of trying to explore the space.

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26 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

what is the cutoff for a charge?

how much cash am i allowed to legally carry? why would i need to explain why i have my property, in this case, cash?

i know you have to declare more than $10k to customs when entering the country.

AFAIK, people can potentally get in trouble for any amount over 10k, when it appears that there may be some transacting going on, as in transporting it, or some other circumstance that indicates that it may be being surreptitiously exchanged without the use of banks or financial authorities.  The idea being that you are avoiding disclosure requirements.

The prosecution may well be on shaky ground on these facts alone.  I would hope that if the defendant and his lawyer can show that it is simply bank deposits without the bank, then charges are dismissed.  He's definitely got some splainin to do.  Not sure quite how I feel about that, though with the burden of proof and all.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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22 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Look, I'm all for getting the pitchforks out and heading to the police station on most issues, but let's not pretend everything was hunky dory here. He had 300K hidden in his car. Now that might sound normal to you, but for most people, the old drug money alarm bells are going off. Is Civil Asset Forfeiture a bunch of bullshit? Yes, especially when it incentivizes the police to take your shit. It needs reform if not aboliiton (like in New Mexico), but let's not pretend this is like the Cops taking 10K on the front seat of your car in Vegas after you left a casino. 

of course it was hidden.  If it was let out in the open the cops some some criminals will just break into his car and take it.

The problem with this, and civil forfeiture, is that they are completely shifting the burden of prove until it is guilty until proven innocent.  I don't care how many alarm bells are going off, that is unconstitutional.

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Ah, yes, lets make you prove your innocence, rather than the state having to prove you guilty of a crime.

Having cash should not be a crime. 

There are dozens of cases that people have had their life savings confiscated by police, and even after showing tax returns and bank statements the police still make them sue to get it back, often making people spend more on lawyers that what they've had confiscated.

I don't really care if it's drug money. The prosecution should have to prove it in a set period of time or it should go back to the owner. 

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9 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

AFAIK, people can potentally get in trouble for any amount over 10k, when it appears that there may be some transacting going on, as in transporting it, or some other circumstance that indicates that it may be being surreptitiously exchanged without the use of banks or financial authorities.  The idea being that you are avoiding disclosure requirements.

The prosecution may well be on shaky ground on these facts alone.  I would hope that if the defendant and his lawyer can show that it is simply bank deposits without the bank, then charges are dismissed.  He's definitely got some splainin to do.  Not sure quite how I feel about that, though with the burden of proof and all.

Since the issue of civil asset forfeiture has been brought up and HH is worried that he is rolling with too much cash, I thought it might be worth while to point out that a large portion of civil asset seizures involve less than $3000.  Civil forfeiture in Texas

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44 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

This isn't civil asset forfeiture.  He's been charged with a crime directly stemming from the possession of large amounts of cash under suspicious circumstances.

He consented to the search.

Presumably if he is acquitted, the cash will be returned.

Now, there may be something else brewing here, but based on the reports, this is pretty legit.

He ded.

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While researching a fiction novel I have had occasion to wonder about which ways to move various objects north or south across the border.

I seldom got searched going into Mexico, but it has happened. And they always have a few cars pulled over right there at the bridge, with the Mexican law going through them. Dude had to have known that.

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10 minutes ago, blacklab said:

Ah, yes, lets make you prove your innocence, rather than the state having to prove you guilty of a crime.

Having cash should not be a crime. 

There are dozens of cases that people have had their life savings confiscated by police, and even after showing tax returns and bank statements the police still make them sue to get it back, often making people spend more on lawyers that what they've had confiscated.

I don't really care if it's drug money. The prosecution should have to prove it in a set period of time or it should go back to the owner. 

Well, in this case, because they have indicted or at least charged him with money laundering, it appears that the state will have to meet its burden of proof.

If they drop all the charges, or all but a traffic violation, and try to keep the money, then we have a serious problem.

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11 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

While researching a fiction novel I have had occasion to wonder about which ways to move various objects north or south across the border.

I seldom got searched going into Mexico, but it has happened. And they always have a few cars pulled over right there at the bridge, with the Mexican law going through them. Dude had to have known that.

Dude laundering money for the cartel ain’t gonna be touched by cops crossing the border into Mexico

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5 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

If they drop all the charges, or all but a traffic violation, and try to keep the money, then we have a serious problem.

Isn't part of the key shittiness that they're technically charging the money with a crime - not him, and the burden of proof is on the defendant to prove their innocence? Which typically leads to police departments leaning on CAF to get more cash for sweet-ass chargers n' shit? And IF they finally release the wrongfully-taken property, they still shower the innocent and uncharged citizen with fees and "storage" charges to still get theirs.

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12 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

While researching a fiction novel I have had occasion to wonder about which ways to move various objects north or south across the border.

I seldom got searched going into Mexico, but it has happened. And they always have a few cars pulled over right there at the bridge, with the Mexican law going through them. Dude had to have known that.

You know thinking about it. I don't think I've ever been searched or had to have my things gone through by customs entering Mexico. Of course I usually only enter at CUN or MEX and those two places are more worried about just getting the masses out.

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CAF is a joke. You know it is because the cops whine so much about reigning it in.


There are instances when CAF has been used to shut down drug dealers and arms smugglers. Unfortunately it has also ensnared lots of regular people. Reason magazine has a whole series on this, cops have used CAF on immigrants (legal and illegal) trying to support their families, on small business owners, and even once stole money that a church was moving between states to build homes for the homeless.

There are lots of problems with CAF but the biggest is that cops are not incentivized to care about how it’s used, and there are not penalties for misuse. The reason why most CAFs are only a few thousand dollars is that in the CAF system, they’re not charging YOU with a crime, they’re charging your money with a CIVIL violation. You have to prove that the money isn’t in violation to get it back, and that means paying a lawyer. For a Few thousand, it’s a losing proposition. The cops know that. So the money sits in evidence until they win the “case” by default.

If you really want to make your blood boil, google “equitable sharing.” The feds have looser rules around CAF than most states, so they let local popo’s act as their enforcement arm to bring bs CAF cases, and cut a deal where they split the proceeds. Some jurisdictions make a significant percentage of their revenues from CAF now.

Even if someone fights and wins a CAF case, they will often find their money or property has disappeared into the bureaucracy and it no longer there. Guess what?! Sovereign immunity, bitch!

Going down this rabbit hole will turn you into a civil libertarian real quick. Check out reason.com for more. CAF is completely, hopelessly broken and needs to be dug out to the roots.

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10 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Isn't part of the key shittiness that they're technically charging the money with a crime - not him, and the burden of proof is on the defendant to prove their innocence? Which typically leads to police departments leaning on CAF to get more cash for sweet-ass chargers n' shit? And IF they finally release the wrongfully-taken property, they still shower the innocent and uncharged citizen with fees and "storage" charges to still get theirs.

With CAF yes that's a problem.

As noted, though, at least as reported, this isn't CAF.  He's being charged with money laundering.  If they go to trial on it, win, and keep the money as ill-gotten gains ("criminal forfeiture"), that's a different deal.

While it still APPEARS that (and practically speaking) Jose will have to explain the origins of the money and why he was transporting it as he was, I'm not sure the state can secure a conviction for money laundering solely on the fact that he was apprehended with large amounts hidden in his car.

This is not, as yet, or as reported, a civil asset forfeiture case where the defendant is charged with an unrelated crime or no crime at all, yet the money is forfeited subject to a civil suit to recover it.  THAT remains indefensible bullshit.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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2 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

You know thinking about it. I don't think I've ever been searched or had to have my things gone through by customs entering Mexico. Of course I usually only enter at CUN or MEX and those two places are more worried about just getting the masses out.

I'm usually walking, sometimes driving into various border towns. Only once did a soldier ask me to completely open a bag, but as I said, a soldier, ie one of the umpteen times they fired all the cops and brought in the army. Dude was very polite.

I vaguely remember some half-assed questioning back in the 90s, and a cop in Acuna acting like he was scoping out my car, but not really.

As a rule I'll catch ten times the attention coming back to the US.

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12 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

 

I'm usually walking, sometimes driving into various border towns. Only once did a soldier ask me to completely open a bag, but as I said, a soldier, ie one of the umpteen times they fired all the cops and brought in the army. Dude was very polite.

I vaguely remember some half-assed questioning back in the 90s, and a cop in Acuna acting like he was scoping out my car, but not really.

As a rule I'll catch ten times the attention coming back to the US.

My grandmother in law always takes the bus to Acuna to see family and pick up supplies. She probably crossed the border with more contraband than any drug runner ever has and that was all in marihuana hand cream before this latest craze took off. For some reason she always brings back about 10lbs worth of pepitas and cacahuates. I tell her that they sell that here, but she always brushes me off. 

Edited by SimonBolivar
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1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

This isn't civil asset forfeiture.  He's been charged with a crime directly stemming from the possession of large amounts of cash under suspicious circumstances.

He consented to the search.

Presumably if he is acquitted, the cash will be returned.

Now, there may be something else brewing here, but based on the reports, this is pretty legit.

Get outta here with that legal shit!!!!!

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Back in the early 70's a couple of 15 year old boys got pulled over in Waco in a brand new T-Bird. Cops found a couple hundred grand in the car. The kids had paid cash for the car in Dallas. I don't recall the whole story but do remember the story they were telling is that they'd found the money buried on a farm in south Texas and just went nuts. Hispanic kids. Everything got confiscated of course and I think the kids were released with no charges. The car ended up sitting in storage for lots and lots of years and was eventually sold at auction. I just tried the google machine and can't find anything about it. Think that was in '73, maybe '74. 

 

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Sounds like they took a page out of Wise County's playbook.

More than 300 pounds of THC and 7 pounds of marijuana were seized during a traffic stop Tuesday near Alvord.

Spoiler

 

Wise County Sheriff Lane Akin said a deputy stopped a southbound full-sized SUV on U.S. 81/287 at County Road 1280 a few miles south of Alvord on a traffic violation around noon.

“There were two guys in there, and they got really nervous and started giving conflicting stories,” Akin said.

A nearby Department of Public Safety K9 unit was called to the scene, and the dog alerted on the vehicle, giving officers probable cause to search the vehicle.

“They were driving a rental SUV and had boxes in the back. They were full of THC. It was quite an impressive load,” Akin said.

Officers discovered 332.2 pounds of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and 7.25 pounds of marijuana. It included marijuana and marijuana buds that had been dipped in liquid THC. Several vials were marked that the contents were 89 percent THC.

“That compares to marijuana coming from Mexico that is usually around 7 or 8 percent, so that’s a really high content of THC, the active ingredient in marijuana,” Akin said.

The driver of the vehicle, Ruben Ernesto Escobar, 28, of Miami, claimed responsibility for all the drugs, Akin said, and was arrested. He was charged with a first degree felony offense of possession of a controlled substance in penalty group 2 more than 400 grams for the THC and a third degree felony offense of possession of marijuana 5 to 50 pounds.

Akin said Escobar told officers they were driving from California to Florida.

This marks at least the second time this year a vehicle has been stopped and found to be carrying more than 100 pounds of THC. On Feb. 7, a vehicle stop resulted in the discovery of 118 pounds of THC-related products, mostly gummies, and 3.5 pounds of marijuana. The person arrested in that case pleaded guilty last month and received five years of community service.

At the time of the previous arrest, Akin said that was the largest amount of THC he had seen from a traffic stop in Wise County.

 

 

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He’ll be fine. He’ll have receipts and tools that he can show for the wood purchase and the location of his workshop.

He can also easily produce the most recent tax returns showing that he’s paid his dues to use that roadway and the taxes that support our wonderful law enforcement.

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1 hour ago, RPM said:

Sounds like they took a page out of Wise County's playbook.

More than 300 pounds of THC and 7 pounds of marijuana were seized during a traffic stop Tuesday near Alvord.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Wise County Sheriff Lane Akin said a deputy stopped a southbound full-sized SUV on U.S. 81/287 at County Road 1280 a few miles south of Alvord on a traffic violation around noon.

“There were two guys in there, and they got really nervous and started giving conflicting stories,” Akin said.

A nearby Department of Public Safety K9 unit was called to the scene, and the dog alerted on the vehicle, giving officers probable cause to search the vehicle.

“They were driving a rental SUV and had boxes in the back. They were full of THC. It was quite an impressive load,” Akin said.

Officers discovered 332.2 pounds of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and 7.25 pounds of marijuana. It included marijuana and marijuana buds that had been dipped in liquid THC. Several vials were marked that the contents were 89 percent THC.

“That compares to marijuana coming from Mexico that is usually around 7 or 8 percent, so that’s a really high content of THC, the active ingredient in marijuana,” Akin said.

The driver of the vehicle, Ruben Ernesto Escobar, 28, of Miami, claimed responsibility for all the drugs, Akin said, and was arrested. He was charged with a first degree felony offense of possession of a controlled substance in penalty group 2 more than 400 grams for the THC and a third degree felony offense of possession of marijuana 5 to 50 pounds.

Akin said Escobar told officers they were driving from California to Florida.

This marks at least the second time this year a vehicle has been stopped and found to be carrying more than 100 pounds of THC. On Feb. 7, a vehicle stop resulted in the discovery of 118 pounds of THC-related products, mostly gummies, and 3.5 pounds of marijuana. The person arrested in that case pleaded guilty last month and received five years of community service.

At the time of the previous arrest, Akin said that was the largest amount of THC he had seen from a traffic stop in Wise County.

 

 

This one’s bullshit as well. 

Thank god I’m white, or I’d be pissed off all the time. 

These cartels and whatnot really ought to make an effort to have white people be the mules. Would cut down on the “there’s a couple a messicans in a nice suv, we better pull em over” stops. 

Edited by Pato del Muerto
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KXAN story tonight claimed he voluntarily stated the last time he crossed the border was around a few months ago, yet they contacted la migra and they told them otherwise. 

 

I travel to and fro through WC daily and dont get fucked with. At all. 

 

 

Must be some kinda privilege or something 

Edited by SurlyBDR
NOCR
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9 minutes ago, SurlyBDR said:

KXAN story tonight claimed he voluntarily stated the last time he crossed the border was around a few months ago, yet they contacted la migra and they told them otherwise. 

 

I travel to and fro through WC daily and dont get fucked with. At all. 

 

 

Must be some kinda privilege or something 

Avatar does not check out.

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4 hours ago, RDCanecutter said:

 

I vaguely remember some half-assed questioning back in the 90s, and a cop in Acuna acting like he was scoping out my car, but not really.

Visiting the Mexican blackbird I see...

Oh, let's drive that old Chrysler down to Mexico, boy.
Said, keep your hands on the wheel there.
Oh, it sure is fine, ain't it?
Now, ya got it! Hand me another one of them brews from back there.
Oh, this is gonna be so good.

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6 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

With CAF yes that's a problem.

As noted, though, at least as reported, this isn't CAF.  He's being charged with money laundering.  If they go to trial on it, win, and keep the money as ill-gotten gains ("criminal forfeiture"), that's a different deal.

While it still APPEARS that (and practically speaking) Jose will have to explain the origins of the money and why he was transporting it as he was, I'm not sure the state can secure a conviction for money laundering solely on the fact that he was apprehended with large amounts hidden in his car.

This is not, as yet, or as reported, a civil asset forfeiture case where the defendant is charged with an unrelated crime or no crime at all, yet the money is forfeited subject to a civil suit to recover it.  THAT remains indefensible bullshit.

Do you even Williamson County bro?

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