Mack Brown's Legacy

[WBT 20411]

I would have fired him after 2003.  Shortly after that, he finally got the right combination of good assistants and badass recruits to overcome his and GDGD's shortcomings for a great run and then he went back to underachieving again.

Edited April 7, 2018 by WBT

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

2 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

I’m still a “Fuck Mack Brown” guy, and I likely be for the forseeable future. 

Having said that, this is the correct take. 

Count me in. Fuck FUPM, but go ahead and pay him for his Rotary Club luncheon appearances.

[SizzleChest 8275]

He’s our version of Phil Fulmer. I get up every day thanking sweet baby Jesus and his mother Mary that we did not end up like Tennessee with Mack as AD.

[Majorcholas 507]

Mack won a shit ton of games plain and simple. 

He did start slipping at the end and I think our o line situation since then is the biggest indicator of that.

im personally in the he’s a legend but damn I wish it wouldn’t have ended like it did. Say what you want, Mack was all class and made me proud to be a longhorn.

[ImissWallyPryor 9045]

Team “all of the above.”  He built it back up, then tore it down.

I’ve mentioned elsewhere that Mack Brown was hands-down the greatest clutch 4th quarter coach of his generation. More specifically, the last possession of big games when he wasn’t getting ripped a new one. The only one I recall losing on the last possession was Tech ‘08, but that would have fallen into the last possession win category if he and Colt had managed the clock properly (still pisses me off more than the Gideon and Thomas freshman blunders that followed).

For at least a decade, all I thought Texas needed was the ball and a little time on the clock and we’d win every tight game. I have to thank FUPM for that. 

[Armybrat 40710]

I posted this on the Conte thread:

Quote

 I was still a Mack fan up until the time he said on TV that Earl was "still welcome on our campus" (after Earl had said it might be time for some changes). That was as bad & unforgiveable as Kurt Bohls not voting VY for the Heisman, IMO.

Then he went on his embittered mission to torpedo the recruiting class to "help them if they wanted to go somewhere else". (the complete opposite what he told the Tarheel recruits when he left NC for Texas).

I've never heard him apologize for that unethical & presumptuous bullshit, so I have no desire to ever shake his hand again.

The Benedict Arnold of Texas Football is an apt description.... again, JMHO.

 

[tbone_ 14020]

Mack won a shit ton of games plain and simple.

Except it's not plain and simple.

Won a bunch of games, but often went fetal against ou with 4 awful blowout losses and one shutout with Vince fucking young on the field.

Nearly won the whole thing again in 09, but failed to have a back up qb (see Nick Saban this past year for the benefits of a serviceable back up) and then followed it up with 5 and fucking 7.

Did a great job bringing the former players back in the fold, but then had the audacity to tell Earl fucking Campbell he's still welcome on the 40.

Set a whole new bar for recruiting the likes of which we hadn't seen in decades, then went nearly a decade without recruiting a single QB or OL that could play worth two shits.

I'm not trying to tell you or anyone else what opinion to have of the man or his legacy. But it sure ain't plain and simple. In fact I'd argue it's the definition of complicated.

[Yesh 904]

When he got fired and fucking aggys and other teams fans were talking bad about him, I defended him because he accomplished a lot more than their shitty programs could ever hope for.  Amongst ourselves as Texas fans though we can admit that he underachieved.

[WJC88 97]

1 hour ago, WBT said:

I would have fired him after 2003.  Shortly after that, he finally got the right combination of good assistants and badass recruits to overcome his and GDGD's shortcomings for a great run and then he went back to underachieving again.

This right here. That run against OU in the early 2000's is his legacy for me. 

[Hank Chinaski 6310]

The thing I took for granted about Mack's teams during his tenure is that they were always really good on special teams and they were disciplined. His teams rarely beat themselves. They rarely did dumb shit (roughing the punter in the 01 B12 title game notwithstanding). The last 4 years have made me appreciate that about Mack, and that is good coaching. 

He was not perfect, but he put the program back on the map. Whatever you want to say about his teams "out-talenting" others or whatever - bottom line is they were the sum of his work. 

Last few seasons were unfortunate, but as a whole, sign me up for another 16-year run like we had from '98-'13. 

[satyanash 14280]

I'll just leave this here.

Don' know how anyone can watch this and not appreciate how much of a godsend Mack was for this program.

 

Edited April 8, 2018 by satyanash

[kmac30 416]

Didn’t Mack’s legacy cause the birth of ShaggyBevo? For that, I applaud his performance at Texas

 

[TriStone 1724]

Yes, Mack did a lot of good, so let him come around if he wants.  That said, Mack also refused to face reality and step aside, and then he tried to sabotage the program on his way out the door.  For that I will always be firmly in the Fuck Mack Brown corner.  And major lulz at Mack being a legend.  If he was a legend he'd be coaching at a P5 school right now.  Sadly, he's not a legend, so he's currently spending his autumns in a broadcast booth ruining football telecasts.

[ImissWallyPryor 9045]

2 hours ago, kmac30 said:

Didn’t Mack’s legacy cause the birth of ShaggyBevo? For that, I applaud his performance at Texas

 

I thought it was the commie leadership at hornfans that caused the birth of Shaggy. 

[Born Burnt 6147]

10 minutes ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

I thought it was the commie leadership at hornfans that caused the birth of Shaggy. 

I thought it was pubic hairs.

 

[UDontKnow 10439]

I might be revising history here, but didn't Bob Stoops want the UT coaching job after John Mackovic was ousted? I seem to recall someone posting such on the Shag. Imagine what Mack's legacy would have been had he not come to Texas. And better yet, what of Stoops's legacy had he become the coach?

[Michael Knight 12878]

I might be revising history here, but didn't Bob Stoops want the UT coaching job after John Mackovic was ousted? I seem to recall someone posting such on the Shag. Imagine what Mack's legacy would have been had he not come to Texas. And better yet, what of Stoops's legacy had he become the coach?

We'd be bagofhorns.com

[Bone3421 716]

Fucking gold....^^^ 

 

[NameAlreadyInUse 5105]

On 4/6/2018 at 9:41 PM, Bullneck said:

Looks like we have exactly one legendary coach, then.  The Brown. Then Akers?

Yeah in football we only have one legendary coach. We have a few in the other sports though.

[kmac30 416]

I thought it was the commie leadership at hornfans that caused the birth of Shaggy. 

I could be getting some things confused.

[Ragnarok 103]

Sigh, very mixed feelings on Mack.  Did a great job when he got here, and I'll always remember that. Just lazy talent evaluation his last five years.  How many Heisman candidates can one man overlook?  Bradford goes unrecruited. Griffin and Manziel offered as db's. (ok, I'm not sorry about Manziel).  Andrew Luck cries when he doesn't get an offer.  And shit,  it's one thing to make some mistakes on your offensive line recruiting. But damn, we weren't even taking enough, and we are still trying to work our way through it.  Still, I respect the guy for what he accomplished.  He just should have left after 5 years earlier.

Edited April 8, 2018 by Ragnarok

[PRONG HORN 3109]

 

 

 

 

[RollLeft 5039]

He ended his run like a little bitch, but he's our little bitch and imo a legend who brought back pride to the 40.  He can sit at my table anytime.  

[SHOOTER12 8787]

On 4/6/2018 at 5:05 PM, Born Burnt said:

Added it as an option. It seems Mack is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enema, between two orange slices.

 

Sounds about right....

[orange dream 1240]

Mack did lots of good but stayed too long and left like a greedy whiner.  IMO he should have retired after the last victory over a&m at the end of 2011.  At that point he had been here for 14 years. Won 1 and been to 2 Championship games in the last 7 years. " Recovered"  from his first losing season (2010) and delivered a win for the ages over the ags.  Had he left then he would already have a statue outside DKR.  As it is, those last two years 2012-2013 are so bitter that it has obscured what should have been a great legacy.

[Slick16 75]

All of the above but I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire.

[RowdyVic 106]

His problem was lazy recruiting and failure to recognize strategies being implemented by other programs. Great at PR and did wonderful for the program.His time was up and he knew it-but wouldn't accept it which started the downward spiral of the program. I like the thought of bringing him back as an advisor/PR guy but he needs to let TH do his job.

[Bigbend1812 12884]

20 hours ago, orange dream said:

Mack did lots of good but stayed too long and left like a greedy whiner.  IMO he should have retired after the last victory over a&m at the end of 2011.  At that point he had been here for 14 years. Won 1 and been to 2 Championship games in the last 7 years. " Recovered"  from his first losing season (2010) and delivered a win for the ages over the ags.  Had he left then he would already have a statue outside DKR.  As it is, those last two years 2012-2013 are so bitter that it has obscured what should have been a great legacy.

This man right here.

[Tex Long 4342]

In the end, Mack's desire to surpass Saint Darrell kept him from walking away when the time was right. In the end, he had to be dragged out the door, kicking and blubbering like a petulant three-year-old. In the end, he lost most of the respect he had built up over the years.

In the end, fuck Mack Brown.

[Rynosauri 23]

I like the thought of bringing him back as an advisor/PR guy but he needs to let TH do his job.

Would he though?

[Tex Long 4342]

1 hour ago, Rynosauri said:

 

Would he though?

I'd think he'd try.

The question is, would MensaTom let him? What about CDC?

[Rynosauri 23]

TH probably wouldn't have any of it, but that'd be yet another distraction to have to deal with. So to echo Tex Long, fuck mack brown 

[Quasimofo 406]

I don't disagree with any post so far. I can see both sides. He was a bitch on the way out, but he'll never have to buy a beer around me.

That said, I'm thankful that I'm not part of a fanbase that worships Barry Fucking Switzer.

[Sidney Sherman 66]

I loved Mack. He let VY kick the shit out of USC. Sure he got a bit annoying at the end there, but he made the mistake of keeping GDGD and hiring manny _iaz. It wasn't all him, the recruiting got lazy, the coaches and players got lazy, it was just time. I can't really say he left Texas in shambles, since he brought a National Title, ans had us play for another. That shit is very tough to do. 

How many big12 teams have played in the title game or made the playoffs the past 30 years? Us and blowU? And they get fucking embarrassed in big games like that. Only time they won is because they played against the semiholes in a snoozebowl.

[Guest]

On 4/7/2018 at 10:26 PM, TriStone said:

Yes, Mack did a lot of good, so let him come around if he wants.  That said, Mack also refused to face reality and step aside, and then he tried to sabotage the program on his way out the door.  For that I will always be firmly in the Fuck Mack Brown corner.  And major lulz at Mack being a legend.  If he was a legend he'd be coaching at a P5 school right now.  Sadly, he's not a legend, so he's currently spending his autumns in a broadcast booth ruining football telecasts.

He’ll be 67 in a few months. He’s done and knew it when he left Texas. There are other examples of guys that age that did the same thing - some that were younger. He’s most certainly a legend. And most coaches wouldn’t “face reality”; they’d try to change reality. He did change things, it just wasn’t enough and the rot was too great.

 

[Hook1997 5270]

If anyone says they wouldn’t take a repeat of Mack’s tenure at UT right now, they are crazy...  But exchange Colt leaving the game and staying in and we end up with two titles and nine ten win seasons in a row.   That sounds like hevan right about now.   Only three seasons below nine wins in sixteen seasons, yes please.  

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

Mack inherited a stacked roster from Mackovic and left such shit behind, TH is still trying to dig out of it, four seasons later. Along the way he won an NC with a QB he had to persuaded to offer and then only let him play the way he was meant to play after a humiliating shutout to OU, yet another in a series of calamities suffered at the hands of our most hated rival. And he almost won another, but his apparent genetic aversion to having more than one viable QB on the roster at any one time -- a bad habit he picked up in the Simms vs Applewhite era -- doomed us vs Alabama. 

Shit, we were relatively lucky in 2009-2010, because by that time Mack had recruited an actual QB he intended one day to give some snaps. Meaning ALL THE SNAPS. He fully expected to slot in Gilbert in Fall 2010 and not have to give the position another thought for at least three seasons, probably four. That was just the way he rolled then. He was shy of having more than one viable QB on the roster at once, and then VY's Iron Man tenure made him think he could get away with that. 

Imagine we had gone to the NC game in 2008, and McCoy had gone down early. Mack turns to his bench, and there's Chiles (should startz) and Sherrod Harris, who never threw a single pass in four or five years on the 40. 

His handling of that position was really, really dumb.

And his handling of OL for the last decade of his tenure was amazingly incompetent, and both of those factors led to Charlie's downfall -- he inherited Ash, who had no real back-ups behind him, and exactly one legit o-lineman who was not a headcase -- and Herman is still trying to fix that shit.  And I think the OL woes will still doom us to at best second-tier Big 12 status this coming year. In the end, that was his worst failing, because OL problems -- or at least a Mack-level fuck-up of the entire ten-man two-deep -- are extremely hard to fix. 

[Tex Long 4342]

What's Mack's official title at Texas? You know, the one we use to sorta kinda justify giving the little cocksucker five hundred large every goddamned year? I think the last time I looked, it was something like "Special Assistant to the President". 

 

If we're going to let him be associated more closely with the program, we oughta make that "Special Assistant to the AD". That way, it's Del Conte's problem if he starts flinging shit around - and then when the plasturf gets yanked and replaced with actual by-god grass, Mack might become a permanent part of what will probably wind up being renamed Royal-Brown Stadium, while we trademark and rename the color to be Royal Brown instead of Burnt Orange.

[Scholz 11933]

Love him for the championship.  Was ready to see him go after he panicked and destroyed our offense after '09 Bama and also got fat and lazy.  Feel he's found his spot on tv because he can talk a person to death.

[Tex Long 4342]

If you're gonna love someone for the championship, love Vince. Even with the Offense full of NFL-caliber players, giving Mack greater credit for a coaching job that consisted mainly of telling Vince to "make something happen" is disingenuous.

[Scholz 11933]

He did have to let "Vince be Vince" but to be fair he also assembled a man eating O Line and a pipe hitting D full of badasses in the secondary.

[Guest]

On 4/6/2018 at 4:37 PM, Call said:

He was a little bitch at the end of his run, but I don’t hate the man and respect what he did for the program all in all in the earlier years. 

 

Clap clap clap 

He was a bitch the whole time.

 

It was only at the end, that Horn fans came to the realization.

 

Fantastic recruiter and CEO type coach.  Not particularly innovative or dynamic on gameday.  Should have done more with the talent he garnered.

[hayden_horn 11360]

mack brown's legacy is a complicated matter. people get hung up on the championship, and rightfully so, but that ignores the shockingly inept coaching of the half-decade prior.

mack's biggest issue is that he was a reactive coach as opposed to a proactive one. he made changes oftentimes in a very tardy manner, after the goddamn plane crashed into the mountain.

some posters pointed out his strong special teams performance. he focused on this after the 1999 opener against nc state, where they blocked nearly every punt we attempted, giving nc state 16 points and a victory.

he could develop strengths out of weakness, as that displays, but it happened after the disaster. 

however, he could also develop weakness out of strength in a reactive manner, and that was displayed by the terrible handling of the simms-applewhite situation. he sabotaged both quarterbacks because of his inability (and his goddamn offensive coordinator's) to develop them both. his constant rick barnes style "fuck with their confidence" of coaching never works, and frequently grinds talent down. he basically made every wrong decision in that debacle, and chose to react in a manner to apparently never have a viable backup ready and rested on the bench. the reason he left simms in that disaster in dallas against colorado was because he took heat for pulling one or the other too soon in earlier games. again, that was a REACTION.

we never lost a game that i recall after being pantsed against ou in dallas in the early part of the century. frequently, our gameplan or personnel would change after ou fucked our mouths. reaction to adversity and assrape. cedric benson, vince young, the examples go on and on.

hell, he had no respect of the big xii coaching fraternity, because of the stoops influence, and that was the result of stoops owning his ass, and also resulted in that 2008 bcs debacle.

the reaction, however, that figured most prominently in his being shown the door was to try and be alabama after alabama beat him. he completely changed his recruiting strategy to recruit players to a game style that went against nearly every offense in the state of texas. this, more than anything, was the harbinger of the end. the reason he got lazy recruiting was that he deluded himself that he was recruiting to a smashmouth football style, and that beef would beat speed. that wasn't texas high school football, though. that may be deep south sec football, but it wasn't here. the result was players being put in a position to fail too often. it resulted in a massive dip in oline recruiting, and that was that. 

the mack cultists that say we fired him despite being in contention for the big xii - yall crazy. there was no way we win the conference that year. and he should've been gone in 2011. 

his legacy is one of frustration and wasted potential in my opinion. he was a mediocre coach, at best. he definitely did not get the most out of the talent he managed to recruit to campus, and anyone who argues otherwise needs to remove their face from their own anus.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Mack inherited a stacked roster from Mackovic and left such shit behind, TH is still trying to dig out of it, four seasons later. Along the way he won an NC with a QB he had to persuaded to offer and then only let him play the way he was meant to play after a humiliating shutout to OU, yet another in a series of calamities suffered at the hands of our most hated rival. And he almost won another, but his apparent genetic aversion to having more than one viable QB on the roster at any one time -- a bad habit he picked up in the Simms vs Applewhite era -- doomed us vs Alabama. 

Shit, we were relatively lucky in 2009-2010, because by that time Mack had recruited an actual QB he intended one day to give some snaps. Meaning ALL THE SNAPS. He fully expected to slot in Gilbert in Fall 2010 and not have to give the position another thought for at least three seasons, probably four. That was just the way he rolled then. He was shy of having more than one viable QB on the roster at once, and then VY's Iron Man tenure made him think he could get away with that. 

Imagine we had gone to the NC game in 2008, and McCoy had gone down early. Mack turns to his bench, and there's Chiles (should startz) and Sherrod Harris, who never threw a single pass in four or five years on the 40. 

His handling of that position was really, really dumb.

And his handling of OL for the last decade of his tenure was amazingly incompetent, and both of those factors led to Charlie's downfall -- he inherited Ash, who had no real back-ups behind him, and exactly one legit o-lineman who was not a headcase -- and Herman is still trying to fix that shit.  And I think the OL woes will still doom us to at best second-tier Big 12 status this coming year. In the end, that was his worst failing, because OL problems -- or at least a Mack-level fuck-up of the entire ten-man two-deep -- are extremely hard to fix. 

Lulz. Charlie led to Charlie’s downfall. Nobody else. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

mack brown's legacy is a complicated matter. people get hung up on the championship, and rightfully so, but that ignores the shockingly inept coaching of the half-decade prior.

mack's biggest issue is that he was a reactive coach as opposed to a proactive one. he made changes oftentimes in a very tardy manner, after the goddamn plane crashed into the mountain.

some posters pointed out his strong special teams performance. he focused on this after the 1999 opener against nc state, where they blocked nearly every punt we attempted, giving nc state 16 points and a victory.

he could develop strengths out of weakness, as that displays, but it happened after the disaster. 

however, he could also develop weakness out of strength in a reactive manner, and that was displayed by the terrible handling of the simms-applewhite situation. he sabotaged both quarterbacks because of his inability (and his goddamn offensive coordinator's) to develop them both. his constant rick barnes style "fuck with their confidence" of coaching never works, and frequently grinds talent down. he basically made every wrong decision in that debacle, and chose to react in a manner to apparently never have a viable backup ready and rested on the bench. the reason he left simms in that disaster in dallas against colorado was because he took heat for pulling one or the other too soon in earlier games. again, that was a REACTION.

we never lost a game that i recall after being pantsed against ou in dallas in the early part of the century. frequently, our gameplan or personnel would change after ou fucked our mouths. reaction to adversity and assrape. cedric benson, vince young, the examples go on and on.

hell, he had no respect of the big xii coaching fraternity, because of the stoops influence, and that was the result of stoops owning his ass, and also resulted in that 2008 bcs debacle.

the reaction, however, that figured most prominently in his being shown the door was to try and be alabama after alabama beat him. he completely changed his recruiting strategy to recruit players to a game style that went against nearly every offense in the state of texas. this, more than anything, was the harbinger of the end. the reason he got lazy recruiting was that he deluded himself that he was recruiting to a smashmouth football style, and that beef would beat speed. that wasn't texas high school football, though. that may be deep south sec football, but it wasn't here. the result was players being put in a position to fail too often. it resulted in a massive dip in oline recruiting, and that was that. 

the mack cultists that say we fired him despite being in contention for the big xii - yall crazy. there was no way we win the conference that year. and he should've been gone in 2011. 

his legacy is one of frustration and wasted potential in my opinion. he was a mediocre coach, at best. he definitely did not get the most out of the talent he managed to recruit to campus, and anyone who argues otherwise needs to remove their face from their own anus.

If I have to go paragraph by paragraph I will, but the above is largely a load of shit tinged with truth. 

I haven’t read too much in support of Mack here, so I think you erected a straw man, because I don’t know anyone who seriously thinks we were contenders in ‘13. 

[TriStone 1724]

19 hours ago, Rex Kramer said:

He’ll be 67 in a few months. He’s done and knew it when he left Texas.

"There is no doubt that if the right situation came up, I would coach again," Brown said. "I have a few good years left."

"Only if they would call me,” Brown said, according to Arizona Sports. “If Ray doesn’t find what he wants and he would like to talk I would love to talk to him about it.”

Hard to believe that ASU went with Herm Edwards when a living legend like Mack was signaling interest in the job.

 

Quote

Lulz. Charlie led to Charlie’s downfall. Nobody else. 

This is just insane.  Are you doing a bit or something?

 

Edited April 11, 2018 by TriStone

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

2 hours ago, TriStone said:

"There is no doubt that if the right situation came up, I would coach again," Brown said. "I have a few good years left."

"Only if they would call me,” Brown said, according to Arizona Sports. “If Ray doesn’t find what he wants and he would like to talk I would love to talk to him about it.”

Hard to believe that ASU went with Herm Edwards when a living legend like Mack was signaling interest in the job.

 

This is just insane.  Are you doing a bit or something?

 

Yeah, Charlie snuck in David Ash's dorm room and whacked him in the head with a hammer and snapped Dom Espinosa's knee and planted drugs in the piss of all those lineman all so he could roll with Tyrone Swoopes and a bunch of glorified walk-ons at QB and on the OL for two years. 

 

There is this school of Charlie haters on here who would like us to believe that his tenure existed in a vacuum, and that all of his problems came from his alleged stupidity and lack of acumen rather than the fact that he was dealt shitty hand after shitty hand and failed to perform miracles with them. 

 

Yes, after Kansas he had to go, but to act like his failures were all on him and him alone is patent bullshit. 

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Yeah, Charlie snuck in David Ash's dorm room and whacked him in the head with a hammer and snapped Dom Espinosa's knee and planted drugs in the piss of all those lineman all so he could roll with Tyrone Swoopes and a bunch of glorified walk-ons at QB and on the OL for two years. 

 

There is this school of Charlie haters on here who would like us to believe that his tenure existed in a vacuum, and that all of his problems came from his alleged stupidity and lack of acumen rather than the fact that he was dealt shitty hand after shitty hand and failed to perform miracles with them. 

 

Yes, after Kansas he had to go, but to act like his failures were all on him and him alone is patent bullshit. 

After 3 seasons, it’s on him. It’s not on Mack, or even 1% on Mack. 

[Machinator 32097]

The only thing worse than a Mack Brown thread is a Charlie Strong thread.

[Wally Pryor 5243]

246- 15.   Four Black Saturdays in Dallas.  

The worst losses in the history of Texas football.   Brown did some good things but those unbridled cluster fucks will never go away.