Trump and Obama

[Chad Fuck 18135]

6 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

That's not the strategy. Like Obama, you're speaking out of hurt feelings.

The left strategy is to motivate the young voters and working classes by promoting socially and economically equitable policies that redistribute wealth downward, where it belongs.

---------------------------------------------------------------

@GW Hayduke Do you plan on adding some commentary to those negs, bud? I'd be interested in hearing your arguments as to what I'm wrong about.

I have no hurt feelings at all, nor do I understand why you think I'd have them.  

I simply disagree that Obama is punching out at college students.  I don't think Obama saying "Hey, let's not alienate people.  There are other ways to win." is demotivating to them.  

  

[BradInATX 9208]

27 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Odd point because it was the complacency of the center and left that allowed Trump to happen in the first place.  People need to be more outraged at the current state of affairs, not less, and calling out the young people fighting hard for a better world is really rich.  The hard left has issues and I get that Obama is just trying to clean his own house so more democrats can win but we’re way past the whole “simmer down youngsters, we just need to come together and everything will be okay.”  Especially coming from Obama.

1) You completely missed my point, which is that you are getting bent out of shape at Obama for calling for more civility and thoughtfulness in an era where those things are lacking (see: Trump). Trump and his movement have created a lack of civility - Obama is calling for more civility, ergo you should agree with his statement. Unless of course you only expect people to call for civility from the right.

2) I do appreciate the self-control you used to not use "weird flex but ok" for the 500th time on this one. Thank you. That's really annoying. I'm pretty sure you aren't 19 years old.

Responding to your posts further down the thread 

3) People who voted for Hillary but aren't far left progressives didn't elect Trump. A bunch of shitheads in the rust belt and the fact that Hillary was an awful, awful candidate did. You got yourself so entrenched in the "Hillary is a victim" mentality that you still blame moderates (who voted for her) over Trump voters and Hillary herself. It's ridiculous.

4) So your contention is that anyone who is not far left and on Twitter being an asshole to people is enabling Trump to become Hitler?

 

Edited October 30, 2019 by BradInATX

[jimmyjazz 47208]

13 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Hitler came to power not because the Nazi Party was strong but because the German people were weak.   We are witnessing a similar thing here with the Trump movement.  

The Germans that quietly opposed and silently stood by while Hitler took over do not get to absolve themselves of responsibility.  Neither will the people you consider “fundamentally on the right side of history” today.

Hitler failed.  

I don't mean to be flip or minimize the atrocities he committed, but you have to acknowledge that eventually, at admittedly great cost, good triumphed over evil. 

Here's the deal:  as you indicate, we have the benefit of a road map from the near past which should clue us in on how to proceed.  Nobody is suggesting "don't act".  What people are advocating is that we do EXACTLY the opposite of what those "weak" Germans did -- that we bring ALL who will come into the fold on board and get this man out of office and then focus on his henchmen.  Now is not the time to be dividing the left as you and b_t want to do.  Your approach is wrong and it will doom this country (as long as we're pointing fingers).

[BradInATX 9208]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

Hitler failed.  

I don't mean to be flip or minimize the atrocities he committed, but you have to acknowledge that eventually, at admittedly great cost, good triumphed over evil. 

Here's the deal:  as you indicate, we have the benefit of a road map from the near past which should clue us in on how to proceed.  Nobody is suggesting "don't act".  What people are advocating is that we do EXACTLY the opposite of what those "weak" Germans did -- that we bring ALL who will come into the fold on board and get this man out of office and then focus on his henchmen.  Now is not the time to be dividing the left as you and b_t want to do.  Your approach is wrong and it will doom this country (as long as we're pointing fingers).

I wonder what Hugo is doing to "act" that the majority of this board isn't doing themselves. I don't know what he actually has time to do between posting on here and (presumably) working for a living.

[lemonlime 5503]

1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

1) You completely missed my point, which is that you are getting bent out of shape at Obama for calling for more civility and thoughtfulness in an era where those things are lacking (see: Trump). Trump and his movement have created a lack of civility - Obama is calling for more civility, ergo you should agree with his statement. Unless of course you only expect people to call for civility from the right.

2) I do appreciate the self-control you used to not use "weird flex but ok" for the 500th time on this one. Thank you. That's really annoying.

Responding to your posts further down the thread 

3) People who voted for Hillary but aren't far left progressives didn't elect Trump. A bunch of shitheads in the rust belt and the fact that Hillary was an awful, awful candidate did. You got yourself so entrenched in the "Hillary is a victim" mentality that you still blame moderates (who voted for her) over Trump voters and Hillary herself. It's ridiculous.

4) So your contention is that anyone who is not far left and on Twitter being an asshole to people is enabling Trump to become Hitler?

 

Last time I checked, trump also won Texas, and by a greater margin than in the rust belt states.  I don't get the blaming of the rust belt for this mess.

[BradInATX 9208]

1 minute ago, lemonlime said:

Last time I checked, trump also won Texas, and by a greater margin than in the rust belt states.  I don't get the blaming of the rust belt for this mess.

Fair enough and you're right.

[softlynow 1894]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

Hitler failed.  

I don't mean to be flip or minimize the atrocities he committed, but you have to acknowledge that eventually, at admittedly great cost, good triumphed over evil. 

Here's the deal:  as you indicate, we have the benefit of a road map from the near past which should clue us in on how to proceed.  Nobody is suggesting "don't act".  What people are advocating is that we do EXACTLY the opposite of what those "weak" Germans did -- that we bring ALL who will come into the fold on board and get this man out of office and then focus on his henchmen.  Now is not the time to be dividing the left as you and b_t want to do.  Your approach is wrong and it will doom this country (as long as we're pointing fingers).

It's amazing this has to be stated. But everyday there's b_t reminding me of all the people who advocate for necessary policy changes but have no damn clue how to get the power necessary to enact them.

[bad_teammate 13524]

2 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

I have no hurt feelings at all, nor do I understand why you think I'd have them.  

Because you ignored the content of the post you were responding to, which leads me to believe that you were not able to respond to the actual point (that Obama's strategy here is a proven loser for everything but getting a single politician elected) but still felt the need to respond with a mischaracterization of my worldview as an attack.

Quote

 I don't think Obama saying "Hey, let's not alienate people.  There are other ways to win." is demotivating to them.  

Then why didn't Obama say that? Why single out the left/college kids and completely ignore how the exact same thing is done in the center and center-right?

 

[jimmyjazz 47208]

1 minute ago, softlynow said:

 But everyday there's b_t reminding me of all the people who advocate for necessary policy changes but have no damn clue how to get the power necessary to enact them.

That's a very good point.  The far left's all or nothing approach to policy virtually ensures they will never see their pet policies enacted.  They might as well be 3rd party.  Compromise is off the table, to their own detriment.

[jimmyjazz 47208]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Then why didn't Obama say that? Why single out the left/college kids and completely ignore how the exact same thing is done in the center and center-right?

 

Because he wasn't talking to center and center-right audience?  Is this really that hard?

[Chad Fuck 18135]

4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Because you ignored the content of the post you were responding to, which leads me to believe that you were not able to respond to the actual point (that Obama's strategy here is a proven loser for everything but getting a single politician elected) but still felt the need to respond with a mischaracterization of my worldview as an attack.

Then why didn't Obama say that? Why single out the left/college kids and completely ignore how the exact same thing is done in the center and center-right?

 

First, Obama's strategy wasn't a proven loser because at least he had the Senate the first two years.  Did he fail to adjust successfully in the later years?  For sure, but that's a whole separate thread worthy topic there.

Second, I wasn't trying to attack you.  However, based on your many comments on this board aimed at the center/moderate left, I think my characterization of your world view is accurate and I stand by it.  

Third, what JJ said.  

[hobbes2702 13478]

35 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Hitler came to power not because the Nazi Party was strong but because the German people were weak.   We are witnessing a similar thing here with the Trump movement.  

The Germans that quietly opposed and silently stood by while Hitler took over do not get to absolve themselves of responsibility.  Neither will the people you consider “fundamentally on the right side of history” today.

This is absolutely bullshit. 

[GW Hayduke 1957]

53 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Odd point because it was the complacency of the center and left that allowed Trump to happen in the first place.  People need to be more outraged at the current state of affairs, not less, and calling out the young people fighting hard for a better world is really rich.  The hard left has issues and I get that Obama is just trying to clean his own house so more democrats can win but we’re way past the whole “simmer down youngsters, we just need to come together and everything will be okay.”  Especially coming from Obama.

bad_teammate is consistent with division of the left as the best path forward. No surprise there. Dividing the left is a goal of right-wing politics. He carries that pail like a good trumpkin.

Hugo should know better.  Wtf dude.

Obama’s points were:

”work with those that have flaws”

”find common ground”

”acknowledge the world is messy”

”acknowledge political opponents are actual people”

”casting stones, judgements on social media IS NOT ENOUGH”

These are all hugely important points. We are in primary season and after that the general election. Taking issue with or being offended by Obama's positions is rather amazing imo

Edited October 30, 2019 by GW Hayduke

[softlynow 1894]

5 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

That's a very good point.  The far left's all or nothing approach to policy virtually ensures they will never see their pet policies enacted.  They might as well be 3rd party.  Compromise is off the table, to their own detriment.

On the flip side, the center, center-left also needs to learn to quiet their far left facing guns when it's silly season. Guys like Maher and his constant drum beat against PC culture/wokeness should declare a truce when general elections are nigh, or once a nominee is selected/inevitable. Obama needs to stay away from telling this particular truth once Ms. Warren is the nominee. There really are odd folks out there who can be persuaded. Stop giving the other side ammunition in that fight. Additionally, enthusiasm can be a fragile thing, especially for the young, for whom voting hasn't become a habit.

Of course this goes for all lanes of the Dem constituency.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

The question I have is what motivated Obama to say what he said?  There isn't a better time then right now for the democrats to fight it out, settle their differences, and re-discover what they really stand for by challenging each other to be their better selves.  Obama seems to disagree because it might cost some votes?  And he says this as the moderate democratic presidential candidates relentlessly attack the progressive candidates for advocating for universal health care without the specifics they can pick apart?  Sorry if I get a "Whose side are you on?" vibe from Obama. 

[hobbes2702 13478]

15 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Because he wasn't talking to center and center-right audience?  Is this really that hard?

It’s not but some choose to make it that way

[bad_teammate 13524]

10 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

The far left's all or nothing approach to policy virtually ensures they will never see their pet policies enacted.

The far left doesn't have an all-or-nothing approach to policy. This is a right-wing smear.

9 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Because he wasn't talking to center and center-right audience?

It was at the Obama Foundation Summit.

Do you seriously think this was an audience or left-wing activists and college kids?

And even if it was, which it was not, is the best way to motivate and inspire people to shame them with caricatures built by the people who hate them?

2 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

First, Obama's strategy wasn't a proven loser because at least he had the Senate the first two years.  Did he fail to adjust successfully in the later years?  For sure, but that's a whole separate thread worthy topic there.

lol ok

"At least his facade of progressivism got him personal power and then his abandonment of it cost the Democratic Party every lever of power they had and destroyed their national and state-level organizations and led to them losing the most lay-up election in history. GET OWNED, LEFTY!"

 

[formermav43 4630]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The question I have is what motivated Obama to say what he said?  There isn't a better time then right now for the democrats to fight it out, settle their differences, and re-discover what they really stand for by challenging each other to be their better selves.  Obama seems to disagree because it might cost some votes?  And he says this as the moderate democratic presidential candidates relentlessly attack the progressive candidates for advocating for universal health care without the specifics they can pick apart?  Sorry if I get a "Whose side are you on?" vibe from Obama. 

As always in cases like this, it’s because he’s a Russian asset.

[Tom 2960]

2 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

 

Obama’s points were:

”work with those that have flaws”

”find common ground”

”acknowledge the world is messy”

”acknowledge political opponents are actual people”

”casting stones, judgements on social media IS NOT ENOUGH”

These are all hugely important points. 

 

Nice try.  You almost had me thinking Obama actually isn't the most divisive president in history.  Then I remembered he was black.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

42 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Hitler failed.  

I don't mean to be flip or minimize the atrocities he committed, but you have to acknowledge that eventually, at admittedly great cost, good triumphed over evil. 

Here's the deal:  as you indicate, we have the benefit of a road map from the near past which should clue us in on how to proceed.  Nobody is suggesting "don't act".  What people are advocating is that we do EXACTLY the opposite of what those "weak" Germans did -- that we bring ALL who will come into the fold on board and get this man out of office and then focus on his henchmen.  Now is not the time to be dividing the left as you and b_t want to do.  Your approach is wrong and it will doom this country (as long as we're pointing fingers).

Hitler was wildly successful until he failed.  He was winning until we, on the other side of the world, had to build our military industrial complex to defeat him.  It should have never come to that.  Also, Hitler's ideology of white supremacy and Nazi fascism is still very much alive today.  My point here is removing Trump is not going to fix much unless we come together for something beyond removing him.  The democrats have to have a purpose they really believe in beyond merely winning elections and stopping the fascists in our own back yard from taking over.  Otherwise, we're just delaying the inevitable here.  Instead of Obama opining on things to fight against, I wish he would advocate for more things to fight for right now.  That's what irked me. 

Edited October 30, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[GW Hayduke 1957]

17 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The question I have is what motivated Obama to say what he said?  There isn't a better time then right now for the democrats to fight it out, settle their differences, and re-discover what they really stand for by challenging each other to be their better selves.  Obama seems to disagree because it might cost some votes?  And he says this as the moderate democratic presidential candidates relentlessly attack the progressive candidates for advocating for universal health care without the specifics they can pick apart?  Sorry if I get a "Whose side are you on?" vibe from Obama. 

He isn’t saying anything that you think he is. My recommendation is to take a break, loosen up, and then listen to Obama again. We all carry baggage and it influences how we process stuff.

Maybe take a jog or stare into a small dime-sized mirror. 

[BradInATX 9208]

 

 

 

Instead of Obama opining on things to fight against, I wish he would advocate for more things to fight for right now.  That's what irked me. 

 

If he advocated for Buttigieg style public option or extension of the ACA (but short of M4A), you'd be having an even bigger episode right now.

 

You don't want him to advocate for things. You want him to advocate for your things, which he isn't going to do. At least not until we have a candidate.

 

Relax.

 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

49 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Hitler failed.  

I don't mean to be flip or minimize the atrocities he committed, but you have to acknowledge that eventually, at admittedly great cost, good triumphed over evil. 

Here's the deal:  as you indicate, we have the benefit of a road map from the near past which should clue us in on how to proceed.  Nobody is suggesting "don't act".  What people are advocating is that we do EXACTLY the opposite of what those "weak" Germans did -- that we bring ALL who will come into the fold on board and get this man out of office and then focus on his henchmen.  Now is not the time to be dividing the left as you and b_t want to do.  Your approach is wrong and it will doom this country (as long as we're pointing fingers).

Hitler failed because of bungling outward expansion, not because of internal dissent. Had he honored the non-aggression pact with the Soviet Union, he could have negotiated a ceasefire with England, and talked the Japanese out of attacking Hawaii. We would have never entered the war either. Then he could have easily taken care of what little internal dissent was left in Germany and it's already occupied territories in the 40s.

Good vs evil is history writing. Japan attacked us. Germany declared war on us as a result. We went to war with both. We didn't really give much of a shit about atrocities until after it was over. Even our economic "attack" efforts prior to the war were largely about protecting England in Europe and containment in the Pacific. Both of those things could have been taken care of via treaty and we would have let Germany continue the holocaust and let Japan do the equivalent in Asia. 

We went to war because expansionist empires usually end up trying to expand through you at some point. 

Edited October 30, 2019 by FondrenRoad

[BradInATX 9208]

Hitler failed because of bungling outward expansion, not because of internal dissent.

Sorry, but wrong. Hitler failed because anti-Hitler radicals got on Twitter and insulted anti-Hitler moderates for being basically Hitler. True story.

[bad_teammate 13524]

A centrist yelling at leftists on social media about how leftists yell at centrists on social media.

We truly do live in a society.

[elfenix 34752]

1 hour ago, Chad Fuck said:

And not exclude potential allies because of some personal notion of intellectual purity.  It's the left's version of the Tea Party screaming "RINO!!!" at moderates.  It's not a good way to build the coalitions needed to win and effect actual progress.

which is why democrats have been winning elections left and right, not those tea party guys. 

Edited October 30, 2019 by elfenix

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

19 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

 

 

 

 

 

If he advocated for Buttigieg style public option or extension of the ACA (but short of M4A), you'd be having an even bigger episode right now.

 

You don't want him to advocate for things. You want him to advocate for your things, which he isn't going to do. At least not until we have a candidate.

 

Relax.

 

This brings up a good point and no, I don't want him advocating for any particular policy.  I want him advocating for things like civil rights, freedom of religion and the press, the rule of law, you know, the things that we take for granted that are evaporating right before our eyes right now? 

I want to see Obama using his influence and platform to get more people politically engaged and off the sidelines instead of publicly criticizing a few that aren't doing it the right way. 

[BradInATX 9208]

12 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

This brings up a good point and no, I don't want him advocating for any particular policy.  I want him advocating for things like civil rights, freedom of religion and the press, the rule of law, you know, the things that we take for granted that are evaporating right before our eyes right now? 

I want to see Obama using his influence and platform to get more people politically engaged and off the sidelines instead of publicly criticizing a few that aren't doing it the right way. 

I think he does more than his share of that. Pretty much every time I see him speak he's talking about civility, civil rights, etc. This is one instance. I'm not going to do it, but I bet if you sat and watched the entire speech or conversation that the clip was cherry picked from, 99% of  it would be him advocating for things that all left-of-center folks, whether me, you, or Fozzz can agree with. You're talking about one tiny sound bite from countless post-presidency speeches.

In fact the whole thing is microcosmic of the point he's making. He sat down for a conversation or speech (or whatever it was) and probably talked about hundreds of things, and what happens? He gets called out for one tiny soundbite. I wanted to see where the clip was from so I started typing Obama into google, and it suggested "Obama callout culture". Clicked that, and the first search result is some link calling him Barack O'MAGA. That's exactly the kind of counter productive nonsense that he's talking about. The reaction that you and others are having to his point (OMG Obama is basically a Republican) is exactly his point. It's just that people are too deep in the weeds to see it. He brings up a good point that a lot of people are so obsessed with pouncing on one thing that someone says, "calling them out", that they miss the bigger picture - and of course people pounce on the one thing he says and "call him out".

Regardless of what you think about his presidency, Obama is an ally to your cause and my cause and most causes on the morally correct side of the spectrum. Settle down.

 

Edited October 30, 2019 by BradInATX

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Yeah, Obama is fighting hard as fuck right now.  I was way out of line. 

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13435]

Scrolled down to see how many people missed Obama’s point. Great job guys! I see a majority used it as a catapult to throw more stones.

[BradInATX 9208]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Yeah, Obama is fighting hard as fuck right now.  I was way out of line. 

I think you're being serious here, so all good. The other thing to consider is that right now he probably feels the need to maintain a relatively low and "neutral" profile. The right thing to do seems to be to let the primary play out, and then jump on board. Don't overshadow anyone right now, etc. He's got such a natural charisma and draw that he steals the spotlight wherever he goes. He's probably very cognizant of that.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

6 minutes ago, Casual Encounter said:

Scrolled down to see how many people missed Obama’s point. Great job guys! I see a majority used it as a catapult to throw more stones.

It's Obama magic.  He throws stones at people that are throwing stones at other people for not throwing enough stones at the people that need more stones thrown at them, and we thank him by throwing more stones. 

It's a vicious cycle of stone throwing.  Meanwhile, the Republicans run over all us with tanks. 

[bad_teammate 13524]

Obama has spent a decade being the moral scold of blacks and the left so he could "maintain a relatively low and neutral profile".

It's very tiring.

Go watch the speech in Flint where he pretends to drink the water then cracks cute about eating paint chips as a kid.

[jimmyjazz 47208]

31 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I want to see Obama using his influence and platform to get more people politically engaged and off the sidelines instead of publicly criticizing a few that aren't doing it the right way. 

It was one talk.  Even so, it's probably just now time to start the grass roots movement towards the summer run for POTUS.  You have no idea what Obama plans to do with regard to engaging the electorate.  Too soon, and his effectiveness could tail off.  Too late, well, we know how that would play out.

[bad_teammate 13524]

Do you think mocking your desired voting base with right-wing caricatures is the way to get them motivated?

Edited October 30, 2019 by bad_teammate

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

4 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

It was one talk.  Even so, it's probably just now time to start the grass roots movement towards the summer run for POTUS.  You have no idea what Obama plans to do with regard to engaging the electorate.  Too soon, and his effectiveness could tail off.  Too late, well, we know how that would play out.

Overthinking things is the democrats biggest flaw. They want to fight back but they don’t want to fight back too hard or too fast for fear of backfire.  It’s a self-paralyzing mentality in my opinion.  They republicans don’t have this problem, which is why they often win.  They are all offense all the time. 

[BradInATX 9208]

4 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Overthinking things is the democrats biggest flaw. They want to fight back but they don’t want to fight back too hard or too fast for fear of backfire.  It’s a self-paralyzing mentality in my opinion.  They republicans don’t have this problem, which is why they often win.  They are all offense all the time. 

Their constituents are stupid as fuck, though. It's an easier game.

Edited October 30, 2019 by BradInATX

[jimmyjazz 47208]

5 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Do you think mocking your desired voting base with right-wing caricatures is the way to get them motivated?

The fact that you think he was "mocking" anyone is telling.  Grow some thicker skin, dude.

[bad_teammate 13524]

7 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

The fact that you think he was "mocking" anyone is telling.  Grow some thicker skin, dude.

 

What would you call the little stand-up routine he did, then? I hate to use the improper verbiage.

Whatever you call it, do you think it's a good-faith attempt to motivate those people to participate and vote? Do you think it's an effective tactic?

[jimmyjazz 47208]

Just now, bad_teammate said:

 

What would you call the little stand-up routine he did, then? I hate to use the improper verbiage.

Whatever you call it, do you think it's a good-faith attempt to motivate those people to participate and vote? Do you think it's an effective tactic?

YES.  Of course it is.  What kind of sheltered home for wayward incels did you grow up in?  For fuck's sake, it's the role of the adults in the room to -- every once in awhile -- remind the youth that they didn't invent everything, that their perspective is simplistically idealistic, that compromise and inclusion can be good things, that they aren't the be all and end all.'

You never learned these lessons.  It's quite literally why you are dangerous.  You are so libertarian you're a conservative.  Cut it out.

[bad_teammate 13524]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

YES.  Of course it is.  What kind of sheltered home for wayward incels did you grow up in?  For fuck's sake, it's the role of the adults in the room to -- every once in awhile -- remind the youth that they didn't invent everything, that their perspective is simplistically idealistic, that compromise and inclusion can be good things, that they aren't the be all and end all.'

B_T: "Here old man Obama goes again mocking and scolding the young people and the left like he always does."
JJ: "Whatever, snowflake, we're all on the same team."
B_T: "So you're saying he's NOT mocking and scolding?"
JJ: "Grow thicker skin."
B_T: "Did Obama mock and scold?"

It's pathetic that you people can't just see what's in front of you and have to pretend it's not there until you get so upset you have to explode it out. Obama, yet again, is taking upon himself the mantle of scold. Not everyone thinks he's "the adult in the room" and that the left and college kids are idiots.

You do. You think the left and college kids are idiots who need to be chided and scolded and brought into line.

I don't. And even if I did, Barack Obama isn't the messenger I'd respect with that message.

So when yet another Boomer/GenXer who has compromised away everything that made him useful condescendingly tells the youth to pull up their gosh darned pants and go to a VOTING booth instead of a TWERKING booth, I call it out as BS and you cheer like a yokel seeing the railroad reel for the first time.

The left compromises constantly. To say otherwise is to promote a right-wing smear.
The youth are engaging at higher and higher levels. To say otherwise is to promote a right-wing smear.
People who are on social media are very active politically. (Even in the 2012 election the plurality of voters were social media users.) To say otherwise is just an obvious and stupid lie.

And you might want to promote right-wing smears and lies. That's your right. And it's my right to notice what is plainly in front of me.

#Freedom

[jimmyjazz 47208]

7 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

B_T: "Here old man Obama goes again mocking and scolding the young people and the left like he always does."
JJ: "Whatever, snowflake, we're all on the same team."
B_T: "So you're saying he's NOT mocking and scolding?"
JJ: "Grow thicker skin."
B_T: "Did Obama mock and scold?"

I literally denounced the idea that his tone was mocking, so the rest of your post is pretty much garbage.

 

Quote

So when yet another Boomer/GenXer who has compromised away everything that made him useful condescendingly tells the youth to pull up their gosh darned pants and go to a VOTING booth instead of a TWERKING booth, I call it out as BS and you cheer like a yokel seeing the railroad reel for the first time.

You're a deranged fool.  Fuck you.  Kudos for helping continue the Trump dynasty -- it's no doubt your goal, Komrade.

Edited October 30, 2019 by jimmyjazz

[bad_teammate 13524]

14 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I literally denounced the idea that his tone was mocking, so the rest of your post is pretty much garbage.

Yes, but then you said it was the job of adults (i.e., Obama) to... "remind the youth that they didn't invent everything, that their perspective is simplistically idealistic, that compromise and inclusion can be good things, that they aren't the be all and end all".

So here you're saying that the youth..
- think they invented everything
- are simplistic in their idealism
- think compromise and inclusion (!!) are bad things
- think they are the "be all and end all"

And this isn't scornful and mocking? What would you characterize it as? Affectionate? Encouraging? Validating?

If I have disdain for a population, they know when my JUST JOKES BRO are actually masked hostility.

Quote

You're a deranged fool.  Fuck you.  Kudos for helping continue the Trump dynasty -- it's no doubt your goal, Komrade.

Normal Brain Mode: Engaged

What do you call someone who thinks people left of center are idealistic idiots who hate compromise? A conservative.

[jimmyjazz 47208]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

So here you're saying that the youth..
- think they invented everything
- are simplistic in their idealism
- think compromise and inclusion (!!) are bad things
- think they are the "be all and end all"

Not all youth, but that kind of hubris is pretty common.  I've raised 4 kids and am now the de facto father of a 5th.  I think I've had at least a glimpse into the mindset, not to mention I was actually young once.

You apparently never grew out of that hubris.

 

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What do you call someone who thinks people left of center are idealistic idiots who hate compromise? A conservative.

Awesomely stupid take.  I'm left of center -- I didn't call myself or progressives or anybody an "idealistic idiot who hates compromise".

You continue to suck at this, but you're too fucking stubborn to see the damage you and yours do.  Or maybe it's intentional . . . gosh, that couldn't be it, could it?

[bad_teammate 13524]

19 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Not all youth, but that kind of hubris is pretty common.  I've raised 4 kids and am now the de facto father of a 5th.  I think I've had at least a glimpse into the mindset, not to mention I was actually young once.

Cool so we have different ideas about young people and the left (and the old and the center and right).

You have the typical conservative view that young people are stupid ideologues who grow out of having strong beliefs and values and become smart pragmatic mature people. There's even a dumb Churchill quote about it that right-wingers adore.

Congratulations, I guess.

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Awesomely stupid take.  I'm left of center -- I didn't call myself or progressives or anybody an "idealistic idiot who hates compromise".

You just think young people...
- think they invented everything
- are simplistic in their idealism
- think compromise and inclusion (!!) are bad things
- think they are the "be all and end all"

Right?

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You continue to suck at this, but you're too fucking stubborn to see the damage you and yours do.

Please explain what you imagine this actually means. I see this constantly from you guys but you never spell out what is happening.

[bad_teammate 13524]

"YOU BERNIE BROS ARE ONLY MAKING US HATE YOU!" *moving left*
"YOU WILL RUE THE DAY!" *still moving left*
"YOU HAVE NO IDEA THE MISTAKES YOU ARE MAKING!" *still moving left*

[jimmyjazz 47208]

8 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Cool so we have different ideas about young people and the left (and the old and the center and right).You have the typical conservative view that young people are stupid ideologues who grow out of having strong beliefs and values and become smart pragmatic mature people. There's even a dumb Churchill quote about it that right-wingers adore.

No, I don't have that view at all.  I invite you to show me where I've said that.  I also invite you to stop mischaracterizing me, because it doesn't advance the discussion.

[jimmyjazz 47208]

20 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Please explain what you imagine this actually means. I see this constantly from you guys but you never spell out what is happening.

You are actively dividing the left, and in my estimation, there is a good chance you are doing so intentionally.

[GW Hayduke 1957]

41 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

You have the typical conservative view that young people are stupid ideologues who grow out of having strong beliefs and values and become smart pragmatic mature people. There's even a dumb Churchill quote about it that right-wingers adore.

Congratulations, I guess.

You just think young people...
- think they invented everything
- are simplistic in their idealism
- think compromise and inclusion (!!) are bad things
- think they are the "be all and end all"

 

Holy Strawman Batman!!

Fallacies are the sign of a weak position. It’s best to change positions when you find yourself using them. Except when using them to divide the left. In those cases, you should apologize to everyone and delete your account

[Bama Chick 28596]

I see BT has pulled down his droopy boomer drawers and pissed all over another thread and turned it into another “y’all aren’t progressive enough so let me piss in your face to persuade you” thread.

Yay.