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elfenix

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elfenix

elfenix 34385

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moving to texas: just another bad decision that can leave you homeless

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/She-was-a-nurse-for-20-years-Now-she-s-14573941.php

 

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Stovall, 46, did not ever expect to end up living in a red-and-grey tent under Houston’s U.S.-59 overpass near downtown. She completed college and raised three children, mostly on her own, and had a successful career. Then she got unlucky.

Stovall didn’t realize how easy it was to become homeless until it happened to her. She fled an abusive boyfriend in Galveston, hitchhiking her way to Houston. When she was dropped off by a corner store in Third Ward, she pulled out her phone and wallet to orient herself. Someone swiped both out of her hand.

 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13299

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We have to combat homelessness at a federal level. People get shuttled around from place to place and it just exacerbates the problem. We need a federal housing program to just build the units we need to house these people experiencing homelessness (a more accurate way of saying "homeless people", I think).

And then, just as importantly, we need medical/mental healthcare guaranteed and a job guarantee for those people so they don't fall back.

We need the entire structure.

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11686

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We have to combat homelessness at a federal level. People get shuttled around from place to place and it just exacerbates the problem. We need a federal housing program to just build the units we need to house these people experiencing homelessness (a more accurate way of saying "homeless people", I think).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pruitt–Igoe

 

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DixonHur

DixonHur 11596

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4 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

We have to combat homelessness at a federal level. People get shuttled around from place to place and it just exacerbates the problem. We need a federal housing program to just build the units we need to house these people experiencing homelessness (a more accurate way of saying "homeless people", I think).

And then, just as importantly, we need medical/mental healthcare guaranteed and a job guarantee for those people so they don't fall back.

We need the entire structure.

So you're saying we need communism to combat homelessness?

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11686

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37 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Shelters are often dens of drugs, violence, trauma, and theft.

Many homeless will tell you they would prefer to sleep on the street.

super anecdote.

many will also tell you they don't want to follow the rules of the shelter(drugs/alcohol) and would prefer to sleep on the street.

 

"somebody needs to do something!"  "not that!!!"

 

 

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4639

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I don’t understand how choosing to be homeless and live in a tent with a strange man is a better decision than “burdenIng” your grown children for enough cash to get into a motel/apt.   
 

ETA: maybe that was just a poorly worded part of the story. But that’s the way it read to me. 

Edited by fattyflattie
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wildcat09

wildcat09 29453

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3 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

super anecdote.

many will also tell you they don't want to follow the rules of the shelter(drugs/alcohol) and would prefer to sleep on the street.

 

"somebody needs to do something!"  "not that!!!"

 

 

Is it cool to live your life as someone completely devoid of anything remotely resembling empathy?

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

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17 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I don’t understand how choosing to be homeless and live in a tent with a strange man is a better decision than “burdenIng” your grown children for enough cash to get into a motel/apt.   
 

ETA: maybe that was just a poorly worded part of the story. But that’s the way it read to me. 

Yeah, me either.  Especially since a large part of her problem was waiting to get identification.  Go to Michigan, crash on your kids couch, order a copy of your birth certificate, and go get a new license.  And if you're already licensed as a nurse in Michigan, then get a job as a nurse in Michigan for awhile.  Can probably even get licensed in Texas while you're working in Michigan.

I'm firmly against those who say homelessness is always a choice, and believe we should have a safety net to end homelessness.  However, this woman seems like she actively made a choice to be homeless.

Its like there is a completely missing part of the story.  Leave the abusive ex-boyfriend in Galveston, get robbed of your ID and money in Houston, and then just move under a bridge rather than go back to a place where you can work and have support connections.  Seems to me she is running from something much bigger in Michigan that is intentionally left out.

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

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1 hour ago, Foosters said:

Shelters are often dens of drugs, violence, trauma, and theft.

Many homeless will tell you they would prefer to sleep on the street.

That is true of men's shelters.  Women's shelters, especially battered women's shelters, are pretty good.  They are also in entirely separate locations from men's shelters.  Family shelters are even safer than that.  Up here in NYC, at least.  No idea what passes for a shelter in Texas these days.

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4639

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My understanding is battered women’s shelters are safe and secure, and sometimes even difficult to get into.  
 

Something seems amiss here. Either way, hope she finds her way shortly.  A greyhound from Houston to Detroit leaving tomorrow is $191.  I find it hard to believe she couldn’t get that panhandling or at a church. $116 is she can wait a week.  

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Gatorubet

Gatorubet 30391

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Stovall, 46, did not ever expect to end up living in a tent . She fled an abusive boyfriend in Galveston, hitchhiking her way to Houston.
 


Stoval came from Michigan with one “a”.
Hitchhiked her way across the USA
Lost her wallet along the way, phone got stole and all she could say was,
“Hey Babe. Take a walk on the homeless side....”
And GOP say, Derp da derp da derp derp derp, Derp da derp, da derp derp derp....



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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tantric superman

tantric superman 4668

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42 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I can hear the NIMBY folks gathering as I read this 

They need to convert those schools to parks and "town centers", stat.

Seriously, most of those schools have ready made classrooms, and play areas.  Convert some of the classrooms into living spaces and you are set.

I'm also assuming we could convert military bases to effectively become Education Bases where we could train and house people as well.

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elfenix

elfenix 34385

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7 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Can somebody spoiler tag the full article. 

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&sxsrf=ACYBGNTfWSP_fwGXgZ_mQmTlfTADKP8kRg%3A1572554815718&ei=P0i7Xa6-K8vGsAW1hIO4Cg&q=liz+stovall+houston&oq=liz+stovall+houston&gs_l=psy-ab.3..35i39l2.4789.4789..4960...0.0..0.56.56.1......0....1..gws-wiz.4dBXB3cDD9A&ved=0ahUKEwju2biZr8flAhVLI6wKHTXCAKcQ4dUDCAo&uact=5

 

click the first link

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DixonHur

DixonHur 11596

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3 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

A jobs guarantee is communism?

what?

Um, yes...that's exactly what it is.  You can't have guaranteed jobs without the government taking over the means of production.

With advances in technology and efficiency, we will have fewer job openings, not more so you're suggesting that the government simply create jobs that aren't needed.

A universal basic income would be far more effective.

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DixonHur

DixonHur 11596

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3 hours ago, FondrenRoad said:

That is true of men's shelters.  Women's shelters, especially battered women's shelters, are pretty good.  They are also in entirely separate locations from men's shelters.  Family shelters are even safer than that.  Up here in NYC, at least.  No idea what passes for a shelter in Texas these days.

lead_720_405.jpg?mod=1533691458

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13299

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36 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Um, yes...that's exactly what it is.  You can't have guaranteed jobs without the government taking over the means of production.

Yes you can. I'm not saying we should, but we absolutely could.

There are a ton of things we could be paying people to do now that are simply not done. Pass a federal law limiting public school class sizes to a maximum of 12 and then fund it. Pay people to clean waterways. Pay people to patch potholes and fix bridges. Pay people to pick up trash in parks. We could create millions of jobs doing public works before we even had to think about looking at the private sector.

I'm not against a dictatorship of the proletariat controlling the means of production, but it's possible to guarantee everyone gainful employment without one.

Quote

With advances in technology and efficiency, we will have fewer job openings, not more so you're suggesting that the government simply create jobs that aren't needed.

What does "needed" mean? Not profitable or not important?

Quote

A universal basic income would be far more effective.

Jobs guarantee and UBI are not mutually exclusive concepts.

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DixonHur

DixonHur 11596

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1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

What does "needed" mean? Not profitable or not important?

Yes, and yes

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

Yes you can. I'm not saying we should, but we absolutely could.

Explain to me how that would work?  How does the government guarantee employment to 7 million currently unemployed people, and roughly 500k homeless without (A) forcing companies to hire people they don't need and/or put them in jobs they're not qualified for, or (B) having them go on the federal payroll?

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13299

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18 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Yes, and yes

Explain to me how that would work?  How does the government guarantee employment to 7 million currently unemployed people, and roughly 500k homeless without (A) forcing companies to hire people they don't need and/or put them in jobs they're not qualified for, or (B) having them go on the federal payroll?

Having federal employees is not Communism.

lol get a hold of yourself

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hornhorn

hornhorn 100

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9 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Having federal employees is not Communism.

lol get a hold of yourself

This isn't a bad or an expensive idea. 500,000, all given jobs even at $15/hour is $15 billion/year. They could also be given housing for the first few months but start paying subsidized rent ASAP. And then find a place of their own within six months. 

We could certainly afford it, the challenge is whether these people would show up to work sober, on time and repeatedly. Not because they are lazy but because a very high percentage of homeless suffer from mental issues which prevents them from holding jobs, staying sober etc.

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11686

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There is currently a 3.7% unemployment rate.  Why the fuck do we need a federal job guarantee program?

Specifically, to this thread there absolutely has to be something willfully omitted.  The whole thing reads like the wheelchair vetern at the Orioles game story from The Wire.

 

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23498

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11 hours ago, Incredulity said:

There is currently a 3.7% unemployment rate.  Why the fuck do we need a federal job guarantee program?

Seriously.  Any able bodied and minded person who wants a job can get a job in this country. 

11 hours ago, hornhorn said:

We could certainly afford it, the challenge is whether these people would show up to work sober, on time and repeatedly. Not because they are lazy but because a very high percentage of homeless suffer from mental issues which prevents them from holding jobs, staying sober etc.

We need to fix our approach to the mental health care system in this country. There has to be some middle ground that we can occupy as a society between the abuses of institutionalization in the past and the current approach.  

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11686

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1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Seriously.  Any able bodied and minded person who wants a job can get a job in this country. 

We need to fix our approach to the mental health care system in this country. There has to be some middle ground that we can occupy as a society between the abuses of institutionalization in the past and the current approach.  

fucking this.

It's not humane/enlightened/empathetic/woke to tolerate tent cities.  It's a public health hazard.

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GSU&UT

GSU&UT 1798

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13 hours ago, hornhorn said:

This isn't a bad or an expensive idea. 500,000, all given jobs even at $15/hour is $15 billion/year. They could also be given housing for the first few months but start paying subsidized rent ASAP. And then find a place of their own within six months. 

We could certainly afford it, the challenge is whether these people would show up to work sober, on time and repeatedly. Not because they are lazy but because a very high percentage of homeless suffer from mental issues which prevents them from holding jobs, staying sober etc.

Getting them stabilized is the most important step, specifically with housing. There's been research lately that shows people can get back on their feet a lot quicker when they don't have to worry about housing, even if they're battling addiction and metal issues.

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tantric superman

tantric superman 4668

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1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

We need to fix our approach to the mental health care system in this country. There has to be some middle ground that we can occupy as a society between the abuses of institutionalization in the past and the current approach.  

It's pretty simple.  Draining our mental institutions of patients guarantees a homelessness problem.  Any sort of solution which involves housing should involve a clinic to serve the folks who were formerly homeless as well as job training opportunities for those who want them and can take advantage of them. 

My approach wouldn't involve any "job guarantees".  It would involve housing, mental and substance abuse care, and vocational training.  The vocational training programs could be linked to the "public school vocational programs" in our public school system.

You can separate the challenges.

Housing:  provide the space

Security in the housing area:  provide the security

Recidivism to homelessness:  job training/mental health/drug rehab

Federal job guarantee/universal basic income:  separate issue altogether.

 

We recently passed the bipartisan criminal justice reform bill, and that involved training.  Should use that as a stepping stone.  Homeless people are trapped in their own prisons - real or imagined -- so we should put some effort in figuring out ways to fix the problem. 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31677

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, FondrenRoad said:

Yeah, me either.  Especially since a large part of her problem was waiting to get identification.  Go to Michigan, crash on your kids couch, order a copy of your birth certificate, and go get a new license.  And if you're already licensed as a nurse in Michigan, then get a job as a nurse in Michigan for awhile.  Can probably even get licensed in Texas while you're working in Michigan.

I'm firmly against those who say homelessness is always a choice, and believe we should have a safety net to end homelessness.  However, this woman seems like she actively made a choice to be homeless.

Its like there is a completely missing part of the story.  Leave the abusive ex-boyfriend in Galveston, get robbed of your ID and money in Houston, and then just move under a bridge rather than go back to a place where you can work and have support connections.  Seems to me she is running from something much bigger in Michigan that is intentionally left out.

Yeah, I gotta say I think there's some big chunks of that story missing.

Strangely, I think I'd have more sym/empathy if they came out and said she got strung out on booze/drugs, moved to Galveston based on an online relationship and now here she is.  Instead, after reading that story, I feel like I have been bullshitted.

I'm not sure it does anyone much good to be spared the harsh realities of the situation.  Same is true of criminal justice reform.  Part of it is going to involve being "nicer" to "bad" people.

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DixonHur

DixonHur 11596

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13 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

Having federal employees is not Communism.

lol get a hold of yourself

Well, it's certainly not a market driven economy...

What federal jobs do you have these guys slotted for?  FBI?  IRS? USPS?

6a00d8341c630a53ef011571287f39970c-500wi

854081161001_5779583617001_5779545747001

shutterstock_1118269664.jpg

As Anastasia alluded to earlier, lack of jobs is not the main issue.

We need social services like universal healthcare, residential mental health facilities, drug and alcohol treatment centers, and job training programs. 

The government should provide the tools necessary to get people off the streets, but we shouldn't become a nanny state where everyone is guaranteed a job and a house.  Let the NGOs and religious institutions handle that part.

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4639

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1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Strangely, I think I'd have more sym/empathy if they came out and said she got strung out on booze/drugs, moved to Galveston based on an online relationship and now here she is.  Instead, after reading that story, I feel like I have been bullshitted.

Exactly. All that I got from the story is it’s hard to get the proper documents in a timely manner (DL, birth certificate, etc). I’m sure we can improve there, not certain it’s going to fix anything tho. 
 

45 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

Why is he having a smart phone a problem for you?

Because his cost to run it, assuming he’s got a data plan and is posting on Texags, is about 1/5-1/10th of a monthly rent.  And if he can sit around and browse all day, then he is mentally functional enough to go get a menial job and get back on his feet.  It’s also a bad look to beg someone for money so you can *eat, then plop your ass down on a corner and internet all day. 
 

*pay for data plan 

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GSU&UT

GSU&UT 1798

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23 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Because his cost to run it, assuming he’s got a data plan and is posting on Texags, is about 1/5-1/10th of a monthly rent.  And if he can sit around and browse all day, then he is mentally functional enough to go get a menial job and get back on his feet.  It’s also a bad look to beg someone for money so you can *eat, then plop your ass down on a corner and internet all day. 

You heard it folks, if you have a smartphone then you shouldn't be homeless. That is some Ronald Reagan esque garbage criticism.

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4639

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1 minute ago, GSU&UT said:

You heard it folks, if you have a smartphone then you shouldn't be homeless. That is some Ronald Reagan esque garbage criticism.

Exactly what I said.  But he’s very obviously not doing everything he can to get off the streets, either.  Which leads me to believe he doesn’t really have a problem being homeless. So yeah, he’s part of the problem. 

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