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2020 astros offseason

elfenix

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19536

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

The hilarious part to all of this, is MLB's decision to add instant replay was the conduit by which all teams have the technology to "cheat." The Astros went too far with the trash can banging, but there is no doubt every team in baseball is using the replay technology for an advantage.

Yep. 

https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2020/1/14/21066585/alex-cora-boston-red-sox-fired-manager-sign-stealing

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Eastwood
Eastwood

Here's the thing that makes me absolutely livid about this... Cheating happens all the time in baseball. At all levels. All levels. The MLB itself cheats the game by juicing the ball. Players juiced t

Asithappens
Asithappens

It's not the end, I agree. The Astros are still sacks of giant shit, though.  Shame on them.

Asithappens
Asithappens

Very sad to see that the Astros are basically dipshit cheaters from the top down. Hey, at least the Black Sox are happy that someone else is wearing their crown of infamy.    

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 34636

Posted
Posted

Everyone knows that cheating like this was widespread. The Astros were dumb enough to use the trash can. We don't know what the signals to the batter were for the Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers, Cubs, and others yet. But at this point only a fool would think that those teams weren't cheating.

Whether they admit it or not is a different story altogether.

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Fudge Nuggets

Fudge Nuggets 19455

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

cora out. 

We should hire him.  Sports are full of cases where coaches get busted for cheating at one or more places and still get more opportunities if they win enough.

 

11 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

cora is going to be on that Pete Rose mlb permaban list 

No he won't.  If he is then Hinch and Luhnow have to go on it as well.

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Seasick Sailor

Seasick Sailor 3747

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

No he won't.  If he is then Hinch and Luhnow have to go on it as well.

I'm not saying Cora will end up permabanned, but he was much more culpable than Hinch or Luhnow in the Astros' scheme and he allegedly did something similar in Boston. His punishment will likely be far worse than a one year ban. 

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13729

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Has it been reported when this started and stopped for the Astros? And if it didn't continue after 2017, why and how did it stop?  I had heard thru some personal sources that it may have last as short as 10 regular season home games in 2017 but there seems to be universal commentary that this continued into the 2017 WS and perhaps even later. But I didn't read either in the report.

 

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Seasick Sailor

Seasick Sailor 3747

Posted
Posted
Just now, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Has it been reported when this started and stopped for the Astros? And if it didn't continue after 2017, why and how did it stop?  I had heard thru some personal sources that it may have last as short as 10 regular season home games in 2017 but there seems to be universal commentary that this continued into the 2017 WS and perhaps even later. But I didn't read either in the report.

 

I read somewhere that a version of it continued into the early part of 2018. 

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Js1

Js1 87181

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Seasick Sailor said:

I'm not saying Cora will end up permabanned, but he was much more culpable than Hinch or Luhnow in the Astros' scheme and he allegedly did something similar in Boston. His punishment will likely be far worse than a one year ban. 

Yeah the architect of the scheme who then took it to Boston is not equivalent to Hinch/Lunhow doing nothing about what they didn’t create. 

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13729

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Seasick Sailor said:

I read somewhere that a version of it continued into the early part of 2018. 

The released report is such bs to provide such little information, but the purpose of it seems to be to protect Crane and the players at the expense of Luhnow and Hinch.  Crane gets to use his owner's privilege to blame Luhnow for everything that occurs within the scope of the entire organization but Crane gets to keep his trophy and take zero responsibility himself. Crane might end up being the best owner in Houston sports history but personally he comes across as a POS.

I also think a lot less of all of the players involved, even though MLB will completely protect their identities except for Beltran. They appear to state that they knew it was wrong but they looked to Hinch to be the moral leader. How about you as an adult take more responsibility for your own ethics or morals.  Even if your boss is looking the other way at your unethical behavior, it doesn't excuse what you did.

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Chuckie Finster

Chuckie Finster 23061

Posted
Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

The released report is such bs to provide such little information, but the purpose of it seems to be to protect Crane and the players at the expense of Luhnow and Hinch.  Crane gets to use his owner's privilege to blame Luhnow for everything that occurs within the scope of the entire organization but Crane gets to keep his trophy and take zero responsibility himself. Crane might end up being the best owner in Houston sports history but personally he comes across as a POS.

I also think a lot less of all of the players involved, even though MLB will completely protect their identities except for Beltran. They appear to state that they knew it was wrong but they looked to Hinch to be the moral leader. How about you as an adult take more responsibility for your own ethics or morals.  Even if your boss is looking the other way at your unethical behavior, it doesn't excuse what you did.

Here's what the report said:

Most of the position players on the 2017 team either received sign information from the banging scheme or participated in the scheme by helping to decode signs or bang on the trash can.

Now, that "or" is carrying a hell of a lot of weight in that sentence.  "Helping to decode signs" is a pretty meaningless statement.  Is that the standard sign study before/after games that every single player in the league participates in?  If so, it's asinine and irresponsible to lump those guys in with the rest.  Again, this is where "yeah everyone breaks rules but they broke them worse!" argument falls apart.  

It's crazy that the report included vague references to these allegations, including words like "most" without additional detail.    

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 55863

Posted
Posted
43 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Has it been reported when this started and stopped for the Astros? And if it didn't continue after 2017, why and how did it stop?  I had heard thru some personal sources that it may have last as short as 10 regular season home games in 2017 but there seems to be universal commentary that this continued into the 2017 WS and perhaps even later. But I didn't read either in the report.

 

You must really suck at reading then.

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13729

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

You must really suck at reading then.

Not really.  The report doesn't mention whether the cheating occurred in the 2017 post season or not.  That is THE most important question.

 For 2018, they only reference that the video setup changed with all teams including the Astros and the Astros transmitted the pitch selection to the dugout only.  Then completely stopped when the Astros found the entire process worthless.

The holes in that story are a mile wide.  But I do understand that MLB will do anything to avoid having to take away the WS wins by the Astros and Red Sox. This must have been the most important outcome that was decided before the investigation.

 

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Seasick Sailor

Seasick Sailor 3747

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Posted

Breaking Down the Harshest Draft Penalties

By J.J. Cooper

When Major League Baseball handed down its sanctions punishing the Houston Astros for using technology to steal signs in 2017 and 2018, it included the harshest draft penalties in MLB history.

The Astros will lose their first- and second-round picks in both 2020 and 2021. If the Astros sign a free agent with compensation attached during those years, the punishment will be carried over to later years.

The penalty was worded that way because, in 2017, the Cardinals signed free agent Dexter Fowler almost immediately after they were stripped of their first and second round picks. The move allowed the Cardinals to lose a supplemental (compensatory) first-round pick rather than a first-round pick.

The Astros will have no such loophole. If they sign a free agent and lose their first-round pick in 2020 or 2021, they would simply be pushing part of their penalty to a later year.

Because the Astros received a pick for the loss of free agent Gerrit Cole (who signed with the Yankees), the club will have the No. 72 pick in the 2020 draft, as well as their picks in rounds 3-40.

The slot values for 2020 have not been released yet by MLB, but in 2019, those picks would have led to a total bonus pool of $3.083 million. (The number will be slightly higher this season.) Teams can spend up to 4.9 percent over their allotted pool without incurring draft penalties.

There have only been seven drafts since the current draft system was implemented in 2012 in which a team had less than $3.5 million to spend. To get a sense of the Astros' future, we looked at how those seven drafts worked out.

There were drafts before the 2012 Collective Bargaining Agreement when teams lacked first- and second-round picks, but under the previous system, teams could spent unlimited amounts on signing bonuses, so a club without first- or second-round picks could get around the problem by signing high-priced players who fell to later rounds due to bonus demands. Under the current system, such circumvention is not allowed because teams are strictly limited in how much they can spend.

 

2017 Cardinals

Spent: $2,248,100
Percentage of Total Draft Pool: 0.9 percent

Why They’re Here: Lost a supplemental first-round pick for signing free agent Dexter Fowler. Lost a first-round pick and second-round pick as the penalty for scouting director Chris Correa’s hacking of the Astros' internal database.

What They Got: Righthander Kodi Whitley, the team’s 27th-round pick, is the only player from the class that ranks in the 2020 Baseball America Prospect Handbook.

Draft Class Summary: This will likely be remembered as one of the worst drafts of the 2010s and has a chance to produce zero players who have an MLB career of any significance.

2016 Cubs

Spent: $2,959,900
Percentage of Total Draft Pool: 1.1 percent

Why They’re Here: Lost first- and second-round picks due to free agent compensation. First pick was their third-round pick (No. 104 overall).

What They Got: No player from the Cubs’ 2016 draft has reached the majors yet. Righthander Tyson Miller, the club’s fourth-round pick, ranks 12th on the Cubs Top 30 Prospect list heading into 2020. Shortstop Zack Short, the club’s 17th-round pick, ranks 28th. Righthander Thomas Hatch, the club’s third-round pick, was traded to the Blue Jays for righthander David Phelps.

Draft Class Summary: This is the worst return the Cubs received from any draft in the 2010s.

2014 Orioles

Spent: $3,410,600
Percentage of Total Draft Pool: 1.5 percent

Why They’re Here: Lost first- and second-round picks due to free agent compensation. First pick was their third-round pick (No. 90 overall).

What They Got: Lefthander John Means had an excellent rookie season in 2019, going 12-11, 3.60 as a starter and finishing second in the AL Rookie of the Year race. Righthander David Hess, lefthander Tanner Scott and utilityman Steve Wilkerson made the majors, although none has had much success yet.

Draft Class Summary: Landing one impact player from a draft without a first- or second-round pick is about as good a result as can be expected.

2013 Angels

Spent: $3,168,200
Percentage of Total Draft Pool: 1.44 percent

Why They’re Here: The Angels did not spend $1 million on any player in the 2013 draft and lost their first-round pick as free-agent compensation.

What They Got: Second-round pick Hunter Green had one of the shortest careers of a prominent pick this decade (he retired after 16.2 innings), but third-round righthander Keynan Middleton had a solid rookie season. His 2018 season was cut short by Tommy John surgery but he returned to the mound in August 2019. Righthander Alan Busenitz (25th round) was traded to the Twins and pitched parts of two years as a low-leverage reliever before being released. Two other players (Michael Hermosillo and Kyle McGowin) have had seen big league time.

Draft Class Summary: The Angels landed one useful reliever who has had injury issues so far.

2013 Nationals

Spent: $3,176,200
Percentage of Total Draft Pool: 1.45 percent

Why They’re Here: After forfeiting their first-round pick due to free-agent compensation, the Nationals did not have a $1 million player in the class. The two players who received more than $500,000 (Jake Johansen and Drew Ward) never reached the majors.

What They Got: Righthander Nick Pivetta (fourth round) was traded to the Phillies for Jonathan Papelbon in 2015. He's spent three seasons in Philadelphia, sandwiching two rough seasons around a solid 2018 campaign. Righthander Austin Voth (fifth round) has been a useful spot starter for the Nationals.

Draft Class Summary: The Nationals signed only six of their picks from rounds 25-40, which explains why only two players from the draft class reached the majors.

2012 Angels

Spent: $2,289,800
Percentage of Total Draft Pool: 1.1 percent

Why They’re Here: Lost first- and second-round picks due to free-agent compensation. First pick was their third-round pick (No. 114 overall).

What They Got: Nine different players made the majors, but none made much impact. The three position players who reached the majors combined for 105 total at-bats. RHP Mike Morin (13th round) is the only of the six pitchers to throw more than 50 innings.

Draft Class Summary: As barren drafts go, this was a pretty good effort, but the Angels received some up-and-down relievers and role players. The entire draft class has produced -3.0 bWAR so far.

2012 Tigers

Spent: $2,477,800
Percentage of Total Draft Pool: 1.52 percent

Why They’re Here: The Tigers first pick was in the second round at No. 91 (there were many more compensatory picks in 2012 due to the final year of the old free-agent compensation system).

What They Got: Righthander Jake Thompson (second round) was traded to the Rangers in a 2014 deal for Joakim Soria. He pitched sporadically for the Phillies (after being traded again) from 2016-2018. Righthander Drew VerHagen has thrown 199 innings for the Tigers over six seasons, posting a 5.11 ERA and a 4.76 FIP. Second baseman Devon Travis was traded to the Blue Jays for Anthony Gose. Travis had an excellent season and a half with the Blue Jays before injuries sidetracked him. He’s posted a 6.6 bWAR over four seasons.

Draft Class Summary: The Tigers had more to spend as a percentage of the total draft pool than most of the teams in this study, and they made it count. Travis is one of the better players picked by a team with so little money to spend.

 

In summary, the Astros face significant hurdles in restocking a thinning farm system. The club will have back-to-back drafts where they will have to be extremely astute at bargain hunting. While there have been a few useful players plucked from these low-cost drafts (John Means, Devon Travis, Keynan Middleton and Austin Voth), the results of these draft classes have been generally poor.

Houston showed the ability to turn late-round, low-cost picks into useful players last decade, but the club’s scouting and player development will be taxed to overcome a significant hurdle the next two draft classes.

The History Of Draft Pick Penalties

The penalties handed to the Astros means that the 2020 and 2021 drafts will be the third and fourth of the past five drafts where a team forfeited one or more draft picks for rules violations.

The Cardinals were stripped of their first and second round picks in the 2017 draft for Correa's hacking. The Braves forfeited their third-round pick in the 2018 draft for violating signing rules as part of a wide-sweeping investigation into the team’s wrongdoing.

This run of draft pick penalties is extremely unusual. No team lost a draft pick due to malfeasance from 1981-2017. But in the first years of free agency in the late 1970s, there was a similar run of draft pick penalties.

With the help of Allan Simpson’s indispensable Baseball America’s Ultimate Draft Book, here is a look at the previous draft penalties.

In 1977 the Braves were found to have contacted soon-to-be free agent Gary Matthews while he was still playing for the Giants. The penalty was the forfeiture of their first-round picks in the January and June phases of the draft. The Braves went to court and the penalty was eventually reduced to just the January pick (which was the less talented of the two drafts).

In 1979, the Angels, picking fourth in the January draft, worked to try to land Southern California star pitcher Bill Bordley. Bordley had made it clear he wanted to play on the West Coast. The Reds ended up picking Bordley with the third pick and he refused to sign. MLB’s executive council vetoed a trade in which the Angels would have sent Dickie Thon and $75,000 to the Reds for Bordley.

Commissioner Bowie Kuhn ended up voiding the Reds pick of Bordley. The Angels were found to have tampered with Bordley and as punishment, the Angels were forced to give the Reds three future draft picks. The Reds received the Angels second round pick in the 1979 June regular phase as well as the Angels first and second round picks in the 1979 June secondary draft. The Reds drafted LHP Bob Buchanan with the June regular draft compensation and RHP’s Mark Pederson and Robert Elliott with the secondary phase picks.

Kuhn then set up a special lottery for Bordley. The Giants won his rights and signed him to a $200,000 bonus (then a draft era bonus record for an amateur). He had elbow problems soon thereafter and pitched only eight games in the majors.

In 1980, the Yankees wanted to sign Billy Cannon Jr., the son of 1959 Heisman Trophy winner Billy Cannon. The younger Cannon was a two-sport star who was projected as a first-round pick. The Yankees did not have a first- or second-round pick that year.

As such, Cannon threw out a massive number ($250,000) to forgo college, which would have been a draft bonus record. He went unpicked until the Yankees drafted him in the third round. Four teams quickly accused the Yankees of tampering and Kuhn soon voided the pick, saying that a telegram from Cannon's father to clubs stating that his son would not play professional baseball and go to college instead was misleading. Kuhn ruled Cannon would never be allowed to sign with the Yankees. His rights were awarded to the Indians in another special lottery. He opted to go to Texas A&M instead. As a linebacker he became a first-round pick of the Dallas Cowboys in 1984 but played only one season before suffering a career-ending neck injury.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19536

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This whole thing is ridiculous. Major League Baseball bending over backward to "protect the integrity of the sport" is only bringing to light, once again, just how much cheating is ingrained in the culture of baseball itself. This goes on all over the league, everyone knows it, but no one really wants to do anything about it. They want to scapegoat, slap wrists, and pretend it goes away. It won't though, because cheating leads to a more entertaining product on the field and a more entertaining product on the field leads to more revenue.

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 55863

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Not really.  The report doesn't mention whether the cheating occurred in the 2017 post season or not.  That is THE most important question.

 

Quote

Notwithstanding the publicity surrounding the Red Sox incident, and the September
15th memorandum that I sent to all Clubs, the Astros continued to both utilize the replay
review room and the monitor located next to the dugout to decode signs for the remainder
of the regular season and throughout the Postseason.

 

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runthebone

runthebone 8376

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

This whole thing is ridiculous. Major League Baseball bending over backward to "protect the integrity of the sport" is only bringing to light, once again, just how much cheating is ingrained in the culture of baseball itself. This goes on all over the league, everyone knows it, but no one really wants to do anything about it. They want to scapegoat, slap wrists, and pretend it goes away. It won't though, because cheating leads to a more entertaining product on the field and a more entertaining product on the field leads to more revenue.

I mean, Gaylord Perry is in the hall of fame.

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 55863

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, runthebone said:

I know, it won't be the same.  WuhSox?

woo.png?w=439

The logo, a smiley face with red socks swinging the bat like Ortiz and Williams, is in ode to the birthplace of the original Smiley Face (drawn in 1963 by the late Worcester advertising executive Harvey Ball)

Edited by Beau Vine
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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 34636

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

woo.png?w=439

The logo, a smiley face with red socks swinging the bat like Ortiz and Williams, is in ode to the birthplace of the original Smiley Face (drawn in 1963 by the late Worcester advertising executive Harvey Ball)

Uh, that's a bunch of bullshit. The smiley face was originated when Forrest Gump wiped his face on a yellow t-shirt. Everyone knows that.

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13729

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Notwithstanding the publicity surrounding the Red Sox incident, and the September
15th memorandum that I sent to all Clubs, the Astros continued to both utilize the replay
review room and the monitor located next to the dugout to decode signs for the remainder
of the regular season and throughout the Postseason.

The missing info is whether they used the decoded signs and transmitted them to the batter. That's the entire violation. MLB doesn't really care that much if you want to decode signals all day if that info isn't send to the batter. 

But why isn't MLB pulling the WS champs for both if this is so egregious? Tells me that they agree that it meant nothing to the outcome to any game. And if it didn't impact any game, why is anyone being punished at this level. 

I know the answer, it's to protect Crane.

 

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

The missing info is whether they used the decoded signs and transmitted them to the batter. That's the entire violation. MLB doesn't really care that much if you want to decode signals all day if that info isn't send to the batter. 

But why isn't MLB pulling the WS champs for both if this is so egregious? Tells me that they agree that it meant nothing to the outcome to any game. And if it didn't impact any game, why is anyone being punished at this level. 

I know the answer, it's to protect Crane.

 

It shouldn't be hard to determine if the Astros continued banging the trash can in the postseason. We have video and audio of every game from multiple sources. I'm inclined to believe they didn't. ESPN and every sports casting team across the nation have surely listened to the tapes of every postseason game by now. There's no way it wouldn't be all over the news if it had been found. 

Plus, SI sources say the investigation determined it wasn't used in the playoffs. Whoever those sources happen to be. 

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runthebone

runthebone 8376

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Posted
12 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Go look at the Astros 2007 draft. That's what the next 2 years are going to look like. The 2 best guys they drafted didn't sign. I'm not sure what the strategy will be. Either max out 1-2 guys, or look to sign a bunch of projects.

Can we go way over spot in the third round for a guy who dropped because of signability?

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 55863

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Posted
13 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

The missing info is whether they used the decoded signs and transmitted them to the batter. That's the entire violation. MLB doesn't really care that much if you want to decode signals all day if that info isn't send to the batter. 

Well, you could literally read that to say that the Astros were just decoding signs for the fun of it once the postseason rolled around, or you could read it in the context of being in a section entitled "Rules Violations in the 2017 Season," wherein it was previously stated that "employees in the Astros’ video replay review room began using the live game feed from the center field camera to attempt to decode and transmit opposing teams’ sign sequences," so "continued to utilize the replay review room and monitor" implies that were doing what was described earlier, in which case all but the gravest dullards would conclude they were sending the info to the batter. 

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Seasick Sailor

Seasick Sailor 3747

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Posted
Just now, runthebone said:

Can we go way over spot in the third round for a guy who dropped because of signability?

My understanding is that we also lose the slot values for the top two picks, but I suppose we could use all of our available funds on one guy. We'll just have less to spend to make it happen. 

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 55863

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Posted
12 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

It shouldn't be hard to determine if the Astros continued banging the trash can in the postseason. We have video and audio of every game from multiple sources. I'm inclined to believe they didn't. ESPN and every sports casting team across the nation have surely listened to the tapes of every postseason game by now. There's no way it wouldn't be all over the news if it had been found. 

Plus, SI sources say the investigation determined it wasn't used in the playoffs. Whoever those sources happen to be. 

I was under the impression that the Fahrquar incident freaked the team out so much that the trash can banging pretty much ended right there, which IIRC was 9/22.

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 55863

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Quote

When the Houston Astros hoisted high that World Series trophy in 2017, they lifted an entire city. Now that the shining symbol of resilience is scuttled by scandal, we are all laid low.

Faith is often an endeavor, but Houston in 2017 was in particular need of believing. We were primed to see poetry and heroism in the mastery of athletes who remade a failing team into victors. We eagerly bought into the narrative. We sported jerseys, painted murals, baked cakes believed to bring good luck. Ravaged by Hurricane Harvey, baseball fans across the Gulf Coast who lost livelihoods and living rooms found solace in rooting for the home team. And the home team didn’t let us down.

Until now.

All across the nation’s fourth largest city, Astros fans are contemplating a shameful revelation: the most successful team in franchise history will now be remembered as something far worse than a failure: a fraud. For all the players’ many accomplishments on the field, the men exalted as heroes failed to live up to basic standards of sportsmanship, honesty and integrity.

 

The Astros cheated.

It doesn’t matter that the almost juvenile-like scheme — using a video camera to decode signs from opposing catchers and transmit signals to Houston batters by banging on a dugout trashcan — likely had little to do with the team’s 101 wins, division championship and thrilling playoff victories that year. It doesn’t matter that other teams had done the same or that baseball has a history of scandals, minor and major.

It only matters that the Astros players knew what they were doing was wrong and did it anyway. That became clear Monday when Major League Baseball released a report that confirms that the cheating did occur, even after teams were informed that such actions were wrong and would be punished.

 

A team that was more than talented enough to win without subterfuge or seeking unfair advantage chose instead to skirt the rules, break faith with the fans and disrespect the integrity of the game. Although it appears that none of the players will face official punishment, they will have to live with the tainted legacy they created.

Team owner Jim Crane, who says he knew nothing of the sign-stealing scam, should be credited with cooperating fully with Major League Baseball’s investigation of the scandal and making the hard choices of firing general manager Jeff Luhnow and field manager A.J. Hinch, who were responsible for enforcing the standards that the team failed to meet.

Luhnow’s personnel decisions are seen as the reason for the Astros’ turnaround while Hinch won respect for handling the talented roster. Both will likely be back in baseball when they complete one-year suspensions handed down by the league. But it won’t be with the Astros.

“I have higher standards for the city and the franchise,” Crane said while promising Astros fans “that we’ll always do the right thing and will not have this happen again on my watch.”

 

To do that, the owner must address a team culture that baseball commissioner Rob Manfred said “valued and rewarded results over other considerations,” the heart of what knocked the Astros from their pedestal.

 

It included an ugly scene in which then-assistant general manager Brandon Taubman shouted at three female reporters in the team locker room, apparently taunting them with the on-field success of Roberto Osuna, a pitcher the team had acquired while he was serving a 75-game suspension for violating the league’s domestic violence policy.

“Thank God we got Osuna! I’m so glad we got Osuna!” Taubman shouted as the Astros celebrated a pennant-clinching victory. He was later fired.

Crane said Monday that he saw the events as “two separate incidents,” but in hindsight, it’s evidence of an organization that saw itself above the rules.

 

They didn’t need to lie or cheat but they did so anyway. That will be the legacy of the 2017 Astros.

And where does that leave a city that believed, a city that skipped work and closed schools to pack downtown streets by the thousands to cheer a parade of heroes?

Shaken, but still standing. And still deserving of a home team that comes through with a win — but comes by it honestly. This storm, too, shall pass. They always do.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/opinion/editorials/article/Astros-never-let-us-down-Until-now-Editorial-14975364.php

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Foosters

Foosters 18279

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3 hours ago, HtownHorn said:

The hilarious part to all of this, is MLB's decision to add instant replay was the conduit by which all teams have the technology to "cheat." The Astros went too far with the trash can banging, but there is no doubt every team in baseball is using the replay technology for an advantage.

You may be right, but there was picture floating around last week from Mike Scott's autobiography where he claimed that when he was on the Mets in the early 1980s, they used the exact same scheme. Bullpen pitchers would watch a monitor that had a zoomed in view of the catcher. They would then signal to the hitter what pitch was coming.

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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 15234

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1 hour ago, Guadaloopy said:

Nope.  We lose first and second round slot money, too. 

Yes, but they still have the rest of the slot values from the compensation pick and rounds 3-10. Of course losing around $3M from the top 2 picks is going to hurt, but we can still use the rest of the slot money + nearly 5% and not incur anymore penalties. I think if a kid drops due to signing concerns, you take him and throw your pool at him. You can't have 2 consecutive 2007 drafts.

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cabowabo

cabowabo 4689

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Glad I didn't buy a lot of World Series gear celebrating this fraudulent championship.  I did frame a Houston Chronicle front page along with the Sports Illustrated cover from 2014 announcing them as 2017 champions.  I'll probably take a bat to those and throw them away.  Hope at some point in my lifetime we'll win a legitimate World Series.  I still remember sitting on my sofa on November 1, 2017 and watching the last out.  Man, what a feeling that was, and it was all for naught.  In closing I'd like to give big FUCK YOU to AJ Hinch, Jeff Luhnow, Alex Cora, Carlos Beltran and all the players who cheated and/or did nothing to stop it. 

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DaysOff

DaysOff 8207

Posted
Posted
Glad I didn't buy a lot of World Series gear celebrating this fraudulent championship.  I did frame a Houston Chronicle front page along with the Sports Illustrated cover from 2014 announcing them as 2017 champions.  I'll probably take a bat to those and throw them away.  Hope at some point in my lifetime we'll win a legitimate World Series.  I still remember sitting on my sofa on November 1, 2017 and watching the last out.  Man, what a feeling that was, and it was all for naught.  In closing I'd like to give big FUCK YOU to AJ Hinch, Jeff Luhnow, Alex Cora, Carlos Beltran and all the players who cheated and/or did nothing to stop it. 
Lol
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cabowabo

cabowabo 4689

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9 minutes ago, DaysOff said:
18 minutes ago, cabowabo said:
Glad I didn't buy a lot of World Series gear celebrating this fraudulent championship.  I did frame a Houston Chronicle front page along with the Sports Illustrated cover from 2014 announcing them as 2017 champions.  I'll probably take a bat to those and throw them away.  Hope at some point in my lifetime we'll win a legitimate World Series.  I still remember sitting on my sofa on November 1, 2017 and watching the last out.  Man, what a feeling that was, and it was all for naught.  In closing I'd like to give big FUCK YOU to AJ Hinch, Jeff Luhnow, Alex Cora, Carlos Beltran and all the players who cheated and/or did nothing to stop it. 

Lol

It ain't funny.....

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