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elfenix

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txhorns

txhorns 2413

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

Oh please, not even close. This electronic surveillance "scandal" was employed by numerous teams across MLB, as previously reported by Verducci in 2018. This wasn't new, it was an open secret with a code of silence by every player in MLB. THEY ALL KNEW. So here's an idea for the opposition....CHANGE YOUR SIGNS!!!


Cheating is endemic in baseball and it's not the Big Deal this narrative has evolved into. This is a bunch of stupid fuckin pearl clutching by the media and butthurt fans of other teams who hate us because they ain't us. This gives them a participation ribbon and a dream of the World Series that they didn't win. 

This is only a big scandal because MLB allowed these circumstances with the implementation of instant replay and looked the other way when the Dodgers, Red Sox, and Yankees were doing it. Now the Astros are the convenient fall guy because 1) they had guys in the front office who played the smartest guys in the room role to the media instead of playing the likable insider role and 2) they kept beating the marquee franchises on the field and at their own game and 3) Mike Fiers didn't like being left off the playoff roster and not invited back and 4) Evan Drellich wanted revenge for the front office bullying him back in 2015 or so. 

I'm ready to start this season and cheer as the Astros take on the world.

 

 

 

This is all so stupid.  Nobody hates the Astros because they are jealous of them.  You are the fucking aggy of the MLB.  You've won 1 championship in your entire history.  That championship is the most tainted championship in the history of the sport.  You are equal to aggy sitting in a room crowing about your 1 championship to Alabama, Clemson, Texas, Ohio State and USC.

 

The reason everyone hates you is because you are the most tone deaf organization in the sport.  Your team has almost literally come out and said that winning is more important than the safety of women or even being a decent human being.  Your front office has lied repeatedly.  That's why you don't get the benefit of the doubt.

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Eastwood
Eastwood

Here's the thing that makes me absolutely livid about this... Cheating happens all the time in baseball. At all levels. All levels. The MLB itself cheats the game by juicing the ball. Players juiced t

Asithappens
Asithappens

It's not the end, I agree. The Astros are still sacks of giant shit, though.  Shame on them.

Asithappens
Asithappens

Very sad to see that the Astros are basically dipshit cheaters from the top down. Hey, at least the Black Sox are happy that someone else is wearing their crown of infamy.    

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18944

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, txhorns said:

This is all so stupid.  Nobody hates the Astros because they are jealous of them.  You are the fucking aggy of the MLB.  You've won 1 championship in your entire history.  That championship is the most tainted championship in the history of the sport.  You are equal to aggy sitting in a room crowing about your 1 championship to Alabama, Clemson, Texas, Ohio State and USC.

 

The reason everyone hates you is because you are the most tone deaf organization in the sport.  Your team has almost literally come out and said that winning is more important than the safety of women or even being a decent human being.  Your front office has lied repeatedly.  That's why you don't get the benefit of the doubt.

So what?

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Iceman

Iceman 2725

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, txhorns said:

This is all so stupid.  Nobody hates the Astros because they are jealous of them.  You are the fucking aggy of the MLB.  You've won 1 championship in your entire history.  That championship is the most tainted championship in the history of the sport.  You are equal to aggy sitting in a room crowing about your 1 championship to Alabama, Clemson, Texas, Ohio State and USC.

 

The reason everyone hates you is because you are the most tone deaf organization in the sport.  Your team has almost literally come out and said that winning is more important than the safety of women or even being a decent human being.  Your front office has lied repeatedly.  That's why you don't get the benefit of the doubt.

Not jealous of Astro culture, dumbass.  Not even sure that’s a thing.

The way the Astros amassed talent top to bottom and kcked ass bothered some folks.  The bluebloods were left scratching their heads wondering, ‘Why not us?”

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txhorns

txhorns 2413

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6 minutes ago, Iceman said:

Not jealous of Astro culture, dumbass.  Not even sure that’s a thing.

The way the Astros amassed talent top to bottom and kcked ass bothered some folks.  The bluebloods were left scratching their heads wondering, ‘Why not us?”

The same blue bloods who were winning while you had 3 straight 100 loss seasons and are still winning when you finally got good?  They aren't jealous of anything the Astros have done.

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WBT

WBT 20653

Posted
Posted
46 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

Oh please, not even close. This electronic surveillance "scandal" was employed by numerous teams across MLB, as previously reported by Verducci in 2018. This wasn't new, it was an open secret with a code of silence by every player in MLB. THEY ALL KNEW. So here's an idea for the opposition....CHANGE YOUR SIGNS!!!


Cheating is endemic in baseball and it's not the Big Deal this narrative has evolved into. This is a bunch of stupid fuckin pearl clutching by the media and butthurt fans of other teams who hate us because they ain't us. This gives them a participation ribbon and a dream of the World Series that they didn't win. 

This is only a big scandal because MLB allowed these circumstances with the implementation of instant replay and looked the other way when the Dodgers, Red Sox, and Yankees were doing it. Now the Astros are the convenient fall guy because 1) they had guys in the front office who played the smartest guys in the room role to the media instead of playing the likable insider role and 2) they kept beating the marquee franchises on the field and at their own game and 3) Mike Fiers didn't like being left off the playoff roster and not invited back and 4) Evan Drellich wanted revenge for the front office bullying him back in 2015 or so. 

I'm ready to start this season and cheer as the Astros take on the world.

 

 

 

Great post.  This was very widespread.  It was right there in the headline of the first Athletic article: "The Astros stole signs electronically in 2017 - part of a much broader issue for Major League Baseball."

The reason the Astros became the poster boys was that Crane and the front office had no interest in playing nice with the media and old school "baseball men."  The media has hated this regime from day 1 and finally found a way to take them down.  Never pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel.

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Iceman

Iceman 2725

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5 minutes ago, txhorns said:

The same blue bloods who were winning while you had 3 straight 100 loss seasons and are still winning when you finally got good?  They aren't jealous of anything the Astros have done.

 They sure do cry like little bitches then...

Whatever you wanna think, brah...

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Iceman

Iceman 2725

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Go Pokes said:

 


I don’t know what’s more pathetic. The fact that they’re going full aggy and making up ridiculous excuses or the fact that they can’t even see that they’re going full aggy.

 

Might be true if we remotely gave a fuck  whether somebody likeD us or not.  Yeah, here you are posting on the Astros thread, stirring shit for no reason.  When we start bragging about the seventh-inning stretch, how capable we as fans might be as players, or how impressive our culture is; yu might have a leg to stand on.

 

You can fuck right off and take the loss like all the others are going to in 2020.

Edited by Iceman
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runthebone

runthebone 8029

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Posted

What the fuck do you expect here, a bunch of diehard Astros fans to apologize?  What did people expect today from the Astros, "our wins are bullshit, we couldn't have won the World Series without cheating, take away our rings"?

If the Astros don't maintain their standard this year, then fine, I'll accept that the sign stealing system made a significant difference.  If they remain one of the best few teams, then fuck off because I'm pretty sure a large percentage of the league was doing something similar.

 

 

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utxmike05

utxmike05 1828

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Posted

Man Im fukin tired of the people who have blown this up.  We shot ourselves in the foot a few times, but damn...everyone wants fuking blood for some stupid sign stealing that probably barely worked.  Maybe Stros should whip up some analytics to show effectiveness of the method and probably how poor it was. Yes they want too far with tech to try and gain an advantage, but jeezus all the MLB "saints" that are speaking up on how bad it is.

Agree with that tweet above how we can't just say "everyone does it, sucks we got caught (told on)"...haters have to have a sincere apology where everyone falls on the sword.

All the cry baby Yank hypocrites need to stfu.  You lost in 2017 to us because our pitching shut you down.  You guys are probably as dirty as anyone.

I'm sure only a few players used this method to help. I can imagine that Reddick got the signal to know that a curve was coming and still whiffed 90% of the time.  Most these guys are really talented, you can't just crucify them all.

And to drop the whole "one person ruins it for everyone" bit sucks for any players who maybe didn't take part and have this stink on them.  I heard Verlander was booed and heckled while playing golf at Pebble Beach recently.  Buncha hypocrites out there.  What about steroids?  Did those players ruin anyone's career? Did any pitchers cry about having shit stats bc steroids?

 

/rant

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txhorns

txhorns 2413

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, runthebone said:

What the fuck do you expect here, a bunch of diehard Astros fans to apologize?  What did people expect today from the Astros, "our wins are bullshit, we couldn't have won the World Series without cheating, take away our rings"?

If the Astros don't maintain their standard this year, then fine, I'll accept that the sign stealing system made a significant difference.  If they remain one of the best few teams, then fuck off because I'm pretty sure a large percentage of the league was doing something similar.

 

 

10+ teams filed complaints on the Astros for it.  I doubt they're all filing a complaint if they are doing the same thing.

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 33071

Posted
Posted

lulz this thing is so silly.

Did y'all know that the first time a baseball team was stealing signals from the opposing catcher and used technology/electronics to relay those signals to the batter was in the 1900 season?

Look up Pearce Chiles.

Willie Mays did it in 1951 when he won Rookie of the Year. The Giants won the NL pennant doing it.

But now it's a travesty and a mockery of the sport. No, that's incorrect. Cheating has been part of baseball since baseball started.

What happened to Pearce Chiles and the 1900 Phillies when they were caught doing this? Chiles was told to move from above the electrical box that was feeding him signals in the third base coaches box. That's it. The Reds literally pulled the box and wires out during a game but there was no punishment.

Whatever happened to the 1951 Giants and Willie Mays, even after their identical cheating method was publicized? Absolutely nothing.

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Go Pokes

Go Pokes 979

Posted
Posted
37 minutes ago, WBT said:

Great post.  This was very widespread.  It was right there in the headline of the first Athletic article: "The Astros stole signs electronically in 2017 - part of a much broader issue for Major League Baseball."

The reason the Astros became the poster boys was that Crane and the front office had no interest in playing nice with the media and old school "baseball men."  The media has hated this regime from day 1 and finally found a way to take them down.  Never pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel.

Great post because you interpret it to back up your lame ass excuses.  I interpret that as teams watching video of games not in progress trying to pick up tendencies and tells from pitchers and catchers to use in a future game.   That seems perfectly within the rules and a long way from what the Astros were doing.  

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Go Pokes

Go Pokes 979

Posted
Posted
34 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

The fact that you're worried about it is more pathetic than either of those things.

No.  No it's not.  So me being "worried" about the fact that aggy mindset has infested Surly is more pathetic than going full aggy?  Don't tell RD.  He's based his entire lift on calling that shit out.  That may be the most aggy thing you've said yet and that's a pretty high bar.  

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Go Pokes

Go Pokes 979

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, runthebone said:

What the fuck do you expect here, a bunch of diehard Astros fans to apologize?  What did people expect today from the Astros, "our wins are bullshit, we couldn't have won the World Series without cheating, take away our rings"?

If the Astros don't maintain their standard this year, then fine, I'll accept that the sign stealing system made a significant difference.  If they remain one of the best few teams, then fuck off because I'm pretty sure a large percentage of the league was doing something similar.

You guys keep saying shit like this, but where's the proof of this?   And please, bring out the Red Sox as your example.  

 

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Gourmand

Gourmand 7774

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Posted
Great post because you interpret it to back up your lame ass excuses.  I interpret that as teams watching video of games not in progress trying to pick up tendencies and tells from pitchers and catchers to use in a future game.   That seems perfectly within the rules and a long way from what the Astros were doing.  
Your head is in the sand if you really believe that. Carlos Beltran knew it was going on elsewhere NYY cough cough and brought it with him. You're delusional if you think teams weren't finding ways to use that information in real time. The only difference between the Astros and them is Mike Fiers. I guarantee that if this doesn't go away, more teams will be implicated as more guys break the code of silence.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

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Go Pokes

Go Pokes 979

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Posted
Your head is in the sand if you really believe that. Carlos Beltran knew it was going on elsewhere NYY cough cough and brought it with him. You're delusional if you think teams weren't finding ways to use that information in real time. The only difference between the Astros and them is Mike Fiers. I guarantee that if this doesn't go away, more teams will be implicated as more guys break the code of silence.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk


I’m delusional. You guarantee. No facts that have come to light support anything you’re saying.
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Gourmand

Gourmand 7774

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Go Pokes said:


I’m delusional. You guarantee. No facts that have come to light support anything you’re saying.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/05/sports/baseball/boston-red-sox-stealing-signs-yankees.html

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/15/mlb-fines-red-sox-and-yankees-for-use-of-apple-watch-and-phones.html

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GHOSTUSER

GHOSTUSER 361

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Does the Athletic cover any non-Astros stories anymore?  Seems like only a matter of time until "Astros" is added to their banner next to NFL/MLB/NBA/etc. at the top of the page.

I fucking canceled my subscription because of their anti-Astros bias. I hate that I gave them $36 for a 1 year subscription. I have never clicked on that site after this shit came out. Mike Fiers and Evan Drellich can burn in hell.

Edited by Iconoclast Texan
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Chuckie Finster

Chuckie Finster 22725

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Posted

Cameron Maybin is regarded as one of the best all around guys in the sport.  He joined the Astros on September 2nd, 2017 and IMMEDIATELY (like literally game 1) became one of the most frequent users of the trash can scheme.  That doesn't happen if what the Astros were doing was as rare and out of bounds as most people are implying.

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WBT

WBT 20653

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Go Pokes said:

Great post because you interpret it to back up your lame ass excuses.  I interpret that as teams watching video of games not in progress trying to pick up tendencies and tells from pitchers and catchers to use in a future game.   That seems perfectly within the rules and a long way from what the Astros were doing.  

Allow to me to quote the first 4 paragraphs from the Athletic article that launched this whole affair:

Quote

There is a broad story about this era of baseball that has yet to be told.

To this point, the public’s understanding of sign stealing mostly rests on anonymous second-hand conjecture and finger-pointing. But inside the game, there is a belief that is treated by players and staff as fact: That illegal sign stealing, particularly through advanced technology, is everywhere.

“It’s an issue that permeates through the whole league,” one major league manager said. “The league has done a very poor job of policing or discouraging it.”

Electronic sign stealing is not a single-team issue. Major League Baseball rules prohibit clubs from using electronic equipment to steal catchers’ signs and convey information. Still, the commissioner’s office hears complaints about many different organizations — everything from mysterious people in white shirts sending signals from center field to elaborate systems involving television cameras and tablets. But MLB has not punished any club, at least publicly, for violating sign-stealing rules since 2017, when the Red Sox were disciplined.

bolded emphasis mine

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 33071

Posted
Posted (edited)

“It’s an issue that permeates through the whole league,” one major league manager said. “The league has done a very poor job of policing or discouraging it.”

Well, yeah, but what does a major league manager know about what's going on in the major leagues?

Edited by Huckleberry
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Gourmand

Gourmand 7774

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Posted

Stfu Pokes and go fucking read the early reporting before you try to tell us what we already all know. 

This is a media narrative driven by anti-Astros reporters with an axe to grind. While there's definitely truth to their reporting, the scope of this electronic surveillance is not limited to one clubhouse but the narrative of "cheating" is very much limited to the Astros. MLB is complicit in this and Rob Manfred is going to regret his handling of this. I can't wait for the whole thing to get blown open PED style. 

 

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54380

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Posted
28 minutes ago, Go Pokes said:

You guys keep saying shit like this, but where's the proof of this?   And please, bring out the Red Sox as your example. 

I'd be absolutely stunned if a large percentage of the league wasn't using the video room to decode catchers' signals and relaying that to the dugout so that baserunners could use that info to signal when they got to 2nd.  

I'd also be really surprised if a couple of other teams weren't doing something similar but a lot more subtle than the trash can banging.  If details of that come out, then it's time to spread the rage to other teams.  

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Go Pokes

Go Pokes 979

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Posted
Go Pokes et al... what do you want? That some of us aren't showing enough contrition? 
Well, this fan is fucking pissed that the team cheated. There, happy? 


Yes actually. That’s exactly what I want because that’s exactly the attitude this board preaches when discussing programs like Ou, Baylor, and Penn State. So thank you for being the first Houston fan to say that.
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Go Pokes

Go Pokes 979

Posted
Posted
Stfu Pokes and go fucking read the early reporting before you try to tell us what we already all know. 
This is a media narrative driven by anti-Astros reporters with an axe to grind. While there's definitely truth to their reporting, the scope of this electronic surveillance is not limited to one clubhouse but the narrative of "cheating" is very much limited to the Astros. MLB is complicit in this and Rob Manfred is going to regret his handling of this. I can't wait for the whole thing to get blown open PED style. 
 

Fuck off and return to your circle jerk where the only people buying your load of shit is fellow Astro fans going full aggy.
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TonyTexas

TonyTexas 10524

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Go Pokes said:


Fuck off and return to your circle jerk where the only people buying your load of shit is fellow Astro fans going full aggy.

You’re here just to stir shit up. This is an Astros fan thread. Of course you’re going to get push back. You’re welcome to your opinions but the General MLB thread is a more appropriate place to express them. 

Edited by TonyTexas
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Chuckie Finster

Chuckie Finster 22725

Posted
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

I'd be absolutely stunned if a large percentage of the league wasn't using the video room to decode catchers' signals and relaying that to the dugout so that baserunners could use that info to signal when they got to 2nd.  

I'd also be really surprised if a couple of other teams weren't doing something similar but a lot more subtle than the trash can banging.  If details of that come out, then it's time to spread the rage to other teams.  

Just this week, Beltran was quoted as saying that the Astros were "behind the times" when it came to sign stealing prior to the 2017 season, and there has barely been a peep in the national media.

That is why we don't give a fuck anymore.  There's no national appetite to look at anyone else.  There are clues everywhere (for gopokes: Beltran quote, the Maybin thing I pointed out earlier, the damn near universal silence on this issue from hitters not on the Dodgers, the fact that other teams claim to have known we were doing this for years yet still rush to hire Cora and Beltran) that this stuff was widespread, yet the media and baseball fanbase would rather hold onto debunked claims from a catfish Twitter account.

Cheating is wrong, but this is not about stopping cheating.  The daily articles where the only thing new is some random pitcher's quotes on the topic make it clear that it's about burying the Astros.  I hate that I can't watch highlights from 2017 without thinking about this, but pardon me if I don't partake in the current faux outrage.

Edited by Chuckie Finster
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formermav43

formermav43 4606

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Go Pokes said:

 


Yes actually. That’s exactly what I want because that’s exactly the attitude this board preaches when discussing programs like Ou, Baylor, and Penn State. So thank you for being the first Houston fan to say that.

 

Did you seriously just compare stealing signs to institutionalized rape?

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