2020 astros offseason

[pepper brooks 579]

10 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

I concede the point.  And you are probably right.  The Astros are looking at something more serious than the Red Sox in form of punishment.  But that has more to do with the fact that the Taubman situation focused Sauron’s eye on the Astros and made them open to any and all scrutiny.  Yeah, “everybody does it”, but the Astros got caught because they made some stupid PR moves and pissed off the wrong people.  

this is 100% true.  

Edited November 15, 2019 by pepper brooks

[Beau Vine 53978]

Also included in that Commish statement:

Quote

"In assessing the significance of this violation, the investigation established three relevant points. First, the violation in question occurred without the knowledge of ownership or front office personnel. Second, when the Red Sox learned of the Yankees' complaint, they immediately halted the conduct in question and then cooperated completely in my investigation.

Based on past behavior, I'm guessing the Astros won't get the benefit of either of those.

[Guadaloopy 10917]

Man... the last two weeks have sucked as an Astros fan.  March 26th can’t get here soon enough.  
 

JV vs. Cole on Opening Day.  

[texashorne 1177]

So what new team are we going to follow when they shut down the Astros?

[David Dennison 18646]

41 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

Man... the last two weeks have sucked as an Astros fan.  March 26th can’t get here soon enough.  
 

JV vs. Cole on Opening Day.  

Losing those draft picks is gonna sting.

 

[Guadaloopy 10917]

I can’t believe no one has photoshopped Orbit onto Oscar the Grouch yet.  

[Pimphand 5592]

On 11/14/2019 at 4:12 PM, David Dennison said:

This right here is why I'm inclined to think the front office might look for a scapegoat. AJ Hinch appears to be neck deep in this.

Yes please!

Edited November 16, 2019 by Pimphand

[Mo Horn 8807]

6 hours ago, Pimphand said:

Yes please!

What, you want Hinch gone? Shocking. 

[Pimphand 5592]

8 outs

5 runs

[Seasick Sailor 3747]

Astros Executive Asked Scouts for Help Stealing Signs and Suggested Using Cameras, Email Shows

By Ken Rosenthal and Evan Drellich 

 

An Astros front-office executive wrote about the team’s desire to steal signs in an August 2017 email that was obtained by The Athletic. As the club discussed its advance scouting plans ahead of the playoffs, the executive asked the team’s scouts to pursue sign stealing from the stands, and suggested cameras could be used to do so.

“One thing in specific we are looking for is picking up signs coming out of the dugout,” the email’s sender wrote in a message from August of 2017. “What we are looking for is how much we can see, how we would log things, if we need cameras/binoculars, etc. So go to game, see what you can (or can’t) do and report back your findings.”

The email was sent to multiple people and provided to The Athletic on the condition that both its sender and recipients remain unnamed.

Major League Baseball declined to comment on the legality of scouts using cameras, which would require a public interpretation of a broadly written rule from 2017 that is applicable to an ongoing investigation. The rule prohibited electronic equipment from being used “for the purpose of stealing signs or conveying information designed to give a Club an advantage.”

The Astros declined to comment.

The email at least reflects the mindset of the team’s front office in 2017, when another sign-stealing effort was already underway.  Last week, The Athletic published a story detailing a scheme the Astros used involving a center-field camera at Minute Maid Park that was fixed on the catcher signs.

Scouts discussed sign stealing with the executive outside of email as well, on phone calls and in a group Slack channel. Multiple Astros scouts said they were appalled by the possibility they would be asked to use a camera — and said that some scouts indeed voiced as much to management. Another scout noted a generally confounded feeling amongst the group by the overall request.

“Nobody wanted to do that, and take a chance of getting caught and ruining their reputation, not only as a scout but then even further damage what the Astros had going,” one person directly involved in the conversations said.

What Astros’ management did with any information learned through the project, or how they intended it to evolve, is unclear.

“It just goes to the story, for 2017, we were asked to electronically cheat in the playoffs,” one scout said of the long-term intent as he perceived it.

MLB rules made it permissible then and today for scouts to steal signs in the stands — so long as the signs are not being communicated during that same game, and so long as those signs are stolen with one’s own eyes or binoculars, a source familiar with the rules said.

The potential use of the camera, however, could have been a rule violation in 2017.

The rule is written broadly. But that does not mean commissioner Rob Manfred would necessarily interpret its application the same across usages. For instance, were the Astros intending to review the footage only after the game — and not use the footage during the game to signal signs in realtime — it’s possible Manfred would see a grey area in the rule as written then. Or, he could see a blanket clause rendering the use of the camera illegal. The rules have been updated since that year.

A longtime scout outside of the Astros organization said that, across the sport, asking advance scouts to attempt to track signs is not uncommon. A general manager confirmed the same. But the potential use of a camera stood out to both.

“That’s (b.s.),” the scout outside the organization said. “When you start bringing in help, that’s when it crosses the line and is unacceptable. … Other guys would call them out. If you’re sitting there with a camera trying to steal signs and somebody saw it, you get ratted out quickly.”

Said another scout unaffiliated with the Astros: “There’s a gray area. But I think cameras are past the line. It’s cheating, basically. I don’t know if it’s ‘cheating-cheating.’ But it’s over the line.”

During the 2018 playoffs, the Indians and Red Sox separately discovered a person connected to the Astros named Kyle McLaughlin taking pictures near the dugout. MLB investigated and said it found no wrongdoing.

The Astros’ front office will be looked at closely as MLB investigates the center-field camera system the team used to steal pitchers’ signs during the 2017 season.

“Obviously, following the rules is crucial to the competition on the field; any time there’s this sort of allegation, we take it very seriously,” commissioner Rob Manfred told Yahoo Finance at the Paley International Council Summit on Thursday. “We’re in the midst of gathering the facts. We want to make sure we understand everything that went on, who was involved, how far up in the organization it went. And at that point in time, we’ll make a decision as to what, if any, discipline is appropriate.”

When a team was last publicly disciplined for a sign-stealing effort, in 2017, Manfred’s statement explaining punishment for the Red Sox began by pointing out the violation “occurred without the knowledge of ownership or front office personnel.”

Edited November 17, 2019 by Seasick Sailor

[tx 3 putt 76296]

if there's a credible paper/email trail, they are toast and deserve whatever punishment mlb hands down

[runthebone 7931]

It would be better at least to have won 2 titles if we were going to cheat.

[Fat Bastard 593]

Finally, one of the teams I support wins a fucking championship, but cheats its way to it (getting caught is the part I actually give a shit about), giving this city another fucking asterisk on its only major championships. 

[YChang 3430]

Maybe this is the universe’s way of saying... time to stop caring about sports for awhile. 

[David Dennison 18646]

3 hours ago, YChang said:

Maybe this is the universe’s way of saying... time to stop caring about sports for awhile. 

Or stop caring if they cheat because of course they do.

[Murfdogg21 4412]

Sorry commissioner. All video and records were destroyed by Harvey. 

[Honeysucklerose 957]

What a cluster of an off-season this will be. They Bronze Age of Astros baseball is behind us now, fellas. And Hinch screwed us out of a second championship during that time

[UTexasFight 9375]

Been out of the country for 9 days

Did I miss anything?

[WBT 20411]

Bunch of pearl clutching that won't amount to much.

[David Dennison 18646]

1 hour ago, UTexasFight said:

Been out of the country for 9 days

Did I miss anything?

Yankee fans are super pissed.

It's really funny.

[tx 3 putt 76296]

Just a reminder, the Astros have high speed cameras all over the stadium for the pitching staff. I thought I read somewhere 70 of these cameras. Same for their minor league parks 

[Beau Vine 53978]

1 hour ago, tx 3 putt said:

Just a reminder, the Astros have high speed cameras all over the stadium for the pitching staff. I thought I read somewhere 70 of these cameras. Same for their minor league parks 

I thought I read in the MVP Machine that the organization bought 70.  Not all of them are in Minute Maid, and IIRC, it didn't break down the location of them.

[tx 3 putt 76296]

That makes more sense 

[Mack Tripper 696]

1 hour ago, tx 3 putt said:

Just a reminder, the Astros have high speed cameras all over the stadium for the pitching staff. I thought I read somewhere 70 of these cameras. Same for their minor league parks 

Ok, so we were using a shitload of cameras to steal signs? Not sure that really helps matters.

[Seasick Sailor 3747]

In other news:

 

[runthebone 7931]

Is it our fault that we were the only organization to put every single person who speaks Navajo on the payroll?

[WBT 20411]

The high speed Edgertronic cameras talked about in the MVP Machine take 1000 frames per second.  They're primarily used to see how the pitcher's fingers come off the ball and impart spin.  You wouldn't need those to steal signs although I guess that could be a cover.  The Edgertronics should only be filming the pitcher.

https://www.mlb.com/news/rapsodo-and-edgertronic-are-changing-baseball

 

Edited November 18, 2019 by WBT

[Lat22 3994]

Jomboy sure ain't letting it go.

[TonyTexas 10481]

37 minutes ago, Lat22 said:

Jomboy sure ain't letting it go.

I had to quit following him. He’s usually pretty even handed for a Yankees fan but he’s taking this to Helobious level bitterness. 

[Seasick Sailor 3747]

Lulz. Shit gets more ridiculous with each tweet:

 

[DaysOff 7843]

Oh for fuck's sake.

[TexArcher 37506]

Jomboy seems like he can fuck all the way off.

[Guadaloopy 10917]

Jomboy makes his cash from Yankee fan views of his videos.  They have an insatiable appetite for anything that explains why Yankee magic keeps failing against the Astros.  It just so happens that this is an issue that a lot more baseball fans have an interest in at the moment.  He has a lot of experience “analyzing” MLB video.  He is uniquely positioned for this situation.   It’s a gold mine for him.  
 

He’ll probably never have anything else like this in his “career”, so I don’t begrudge him trying to milk it for everything he can get.   

[Beau Vine 53978]

28 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

Jomboy makes his cash from Yankee fan views of his videos.  They have an insatiable appetite for anything that explains why Yankee magic keeps failing against the Astros.  It just so happens that this is an issue that a lot more baseball fans have an interest in at the moment.  He has a lot of experience “analyzing” MLB video.  He is uniquely positioned for this situation.   It’s a gold mine for him.  
 

He’ll probably never have anything else like this in his “career”, so I don’t begrudge him trying to milk it for everything he can get.   

Never go full Liucci, Jomboy.

[Updawg 2261]

Maybe this is the universe’s way of saying... time to stop caring about sports for awhile. 

I've been thinking this as well lately

[Chuckie Finster 22598]

I brought this up in the MLB thread, but I find it interesting that the only players to speak out about this have been pitchers. The hitters across the league have been mysteriously silent. And then today, in the middle of one of Jomboy’s Randolph Duke-ian rants, Michael Morse chimes in with some common sense:

I don’t think hitters want this investigated across the league.

[HtownHorn 14468]

Jomboy taking this on a conspiracy theory wet dream is helping the Astros.

[UTHornFan014 710]

Unnamed Yankee sources have said the Astros stole signs by shoving vibrators up their ass

[Asithappens 974]

Very sad to see that the Astros are basically dipshit cheaters from the top down.

Hey, at least the Black Sox are happy that someone else is wearing their crown of infamy.

 

 

[Asithappens 974]

AJ and anybody else in the front office who had a role in this need to be banned from all things baseball for at least a year. 

[David Dennison 18646]

Some people realize this isn't the end of the world and that the pearl clutching is a little overwrought. 

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/11/the-houston-astros-cheating-scandal-is-fun.html#comments

 

[Asithappens 974]

2 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Some people realize this isn't the end of the world and that the pearl clutching is a little overwrought. 

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/11/the-houston-astros-cheating-scandal-is-fun.html#comments

 

It's not the end, I agree.

The Astros are still sacks of giant shit, though. 

Shame on them.

[LebongJames 1782]

Red Sox used Apple watches in 2017. This shit just needs to go away.

[Fudge Nuggets 19144]

Have we done anything to desecrate the game so far this week?

[Beau Vine 53978]

ARLINGTON, Texas -- Major League Baseball commissioner Rob Manfred said he believes the sign-stealing scandal that has engulfed the sport involves only the Houston Astros and that he can mete out discipline beyond the standard fine and draft pick penalties if necessary.

Speaking as the owners meetings began Tuesday, Manfred called the allegations of technology-driven sign-stealing by the Astros "the most serious matter." He said "it relates to the integrity of the sport" and promised "a really, really thorough investigation."

[Jshep34 2303]

Now we tried to use buzzers attached to players. If its proven astros cheated this blatantly then itll be severe punishment. Strongly believe more teams have done sign stealing with technology than what manfred would like to believe. Astros will be made a scapegoat. Cause we arent NY, LA or Bos. Proves how hard it is to actually hit a major league pitcher. Hitters may have known whats coming and still werent hitting over 350.

[David Dennison 18646]

7 minutes ago, Jshep34 said:

Now we tried to use buzzers attached to players. If its proven astros cheated this blatantly then itll be severe punishment. Strongly believe more teams have done sign stealing with technology than what manfred would like to believe. Astros will be made a scapegoat. Cause we arent NY, LA or Bos. Proves how hard it is to actually hit a major league pitcher. Hitters may have known whats coming and still werent hitting over 350.

The only severe punishment that matters is taking away a championship.

That's not going to happen, so play ball.

[UTexasFight 9375]

So you’re telling me Altuve’s wife wasn’t the real reason he wanted to keep his jersey on?

[UTexasFight 9375]

The only severe punishment that matters is taking away a championship.
That's not going to happen, so play ball.

No... but depending how it all shakes out, this very much could take away another one or two from the future.

[Mack Tripper 696]

10 minutes ago, Jshep34 said:

Now we tried to use buzzers attached to players. If its proven astros cheated this blatantly then itll be severe punishment. Strongly believe more teams have done sign stealing with technology than what manfred would like to believe. Astros will be made a scapegoat. Cause we arent NY, LA or Bos. Proves how hard it is to actually hit a major league pitcher. Hitters may have known whats coming and still werent hitting over 350.

Jomboy's buzzer theory ended up being a MLB authentication sticker.