2020 astros offseason

[DaysOff 7947]

Man, if we had cheated last year we would've won way more than 107 games.

[Beau Vine 54212]

2 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:

We've officially entered silly season.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/nancy-armour/2020/02/10/mike-bolsinger-sues-houston-astros-says-cheating-changed-his-career/4712164002/

Pitched for TOR in 2017.  Has been in Japan ever since.  Not sure how he thinks this should be filed in LA. 

[Beau Vine 54212]

1 hour ago, Wild Bill said:

One inning in early august is why he is out of baseball. Ha ha..yeah right.

Think of the children, you heartless bastard!

Quote

“There’s a message to be sent to youth out there. Especially athletes, more specifically baseball players,” Bolsinger told USA TODAY Sports. “It was awesome to (grow up and) watch game played the right way. We’ve kind of drifted from that. It’s something we can really express to these kids: You don’t have to cheat to get to where you want to go.

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by Beau Vine

[UTexasFight 9432]

^^^
Sure...if the highest level you want to achieve in life is middle management

[Jacob McCandles 202]

1 hour ago, Beau Vine said:

Pitched for TOR in 2017.  Has been in Japan ever since.  Not sure how he thinks this should be filed in LA. 

he grew up in DFW, which explains a lot

[Chuckie Finster 22694]

2 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

Pitched for TOR in 2017.  Has been in Japan ever since.  Not sure how he thinks this should be filed in LA. 

Because Los Angeles is "where the defendant Astros fraudulently won the 2017 World Series."  

It's a publicity stunt tied to a hail mary that the judge is a bitter Dodger fan.

[Fondren & Main 6712]

What a tremendous pussy that guy is...

[RGBIII 22840]

FYI if someone says that “codebreaker” was cheating they should be completely ignored. Every single team in baseball has something similar, hell even a lot of players have it or some kind of journal.  If I really wanted to I could watch games at home and do the exact same shit. Stealing signs isn’t illegal in the slightest...it’s relaying the stolen signs electronically that’s illegal. Mother fuckers are up in arms over an excel spreadsheet with Info that’s readily available to the public via tv broadcast. This season needs to hurry up and start cause these dumbs mother fuckers are grasping at straws in a slow news cycle

[Beau Vine 54212]

1 minute ago, RGBIII said:

FYI if someone says that “codebreaker” was cheating they should be completely ignored. Every single team in baseball has something similar, hell even a lot of players have it or some kind of journal.  If I really wanted to I could watch games at home and do the exact same shit. Stealing signs isn’t illegal in the slightest...it’s relaying the stolen signs electronically that’s illegal. Mother fuckers are up in arms over an excel spreadsheet with Info that’s readily available to the public via tv broadcast. This season needs to hurry up and start cause these dumbs mother fuckers are grasping at straws in a slow news cycle

Exactly.   When I watch baseball on TV, I watch the catcher's signals and try to figure out what pitch is coming.  Always have.  It really fucking annoys me when they're showing the crowd or some other stupid shit instead.  

[McFly 606]

Thief!

[Chuckie Finster 22694]

Exactly.   When I watch baseball on TV, I watch the catcher's signals and try to figure out what pitch is coming.  Always have.  It really fucking annoys me when they're showing the crowd or some other stupid shit instead.  

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I’m pretty sure you’re now included in that scrub pitcher’s lawsuit.

[runthebone 7977]

Maybe the plaintiff shouldn't throw a fastball in the upper 80s.

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/mike-bolsinger/11137/graphs?position=P&pitchgraphs=true&statArr=279&legend=1,2&split=base&time=daily&start=2015&end=2017&rtype=mult&gt1=15&dStatArray=FC&ymin=&ymax=

[UTexasFight 9432]

FYI if someone says that “codebreaker” was cheating they should be completely ignored. Every single team in baseball has something similar, hell even a lot of players have it or some kind of journal.  If I really wanted to I could watch games at home and do the exact same shit. Stealing signs isn’t illegal in the slightest...it’s relaying the stolen signs electronically that’s illegal. Mother fuckers are up in arms over an excel spreadsheet with Info that’s readily available to the public via tv broadcast. This season needs to hurry up and start cause these dumbs mother fuckers are grasping at straws in a slow news cycle

Except that’s what we were doing... codebreaker spits out the pitch. Someone relays it to the dugout who relays it to the runner on base, all within the same game. That’s not legal

[RGBIII 22840]

8 minutes ago, UTexasFight said:

Except that’s what we were doing... codebreaker spits out the pitch. Someone relays it to the dugout who relays it to the runner on base, all within the same game. That’s not legal

The relaying of it is what’s illegal. The spreadsheet is not

[Planet Houston 4930]

In the “no shit” department, here’s some common sense from an old friend:

 

[Chuckie Finster 22694]

I would die for Joe Musgrove.

[Mez2 4023]

51 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

I would die for Joe Musgrove.

 

[Honeysucklerose 987]

Marwin apologizes

[UTexasFight 9432]

The relaying of it is what’s illegal. The spreadsheet is not

Right.
But we used the spreadsheet to relay signals..the spreadsheet was used to cheat


I agree if people are getting high and mighty about the use of a spreadsheet, in and of itself, they are idiots.

[WBT 20562]

26 minutes ago, UTexasFight said:

Right.
But we used the spreadsheet to relay signals..the spreadsheet was used to cheat
 

I thought that was a trash can?

Edited February 11, 2020 by WBT

[Beau Vine 54212]

Threw Beltran under the fucking bus...

Quote

You’re an accessory to a robbery, and now you’re in the backseat of the getaway car. You never intended to be part of a criminal act. But the doors are locked, the driver is speeding away, and you’re unable to escape.

One member of the 2017 World Series champion Astros uses that analogy to explain the feeling in the clubhouse as the team deployed a real-time sign-stealing scheme that season.

Carlos Beltrán, a highly respected veteran with a Hall-of-Fame resume, had helped create the system, and as the senior member of the team, his voice functionally prevailed over all others. Clubhouse dynamics are a powerful force, conditioning players to keep quiet and respect veterans, and ultimately played a role in the Astros’ snowballing scandal.

Few players voiced any objections at the time to Beltrán or anyone else in authority, and the Astros continued with a different form of illicit sign stealing the following season, after Beltrán had retired. Major League Baseball had failed to take enough action to prevent such activity in the seasons leading up to 2017.

In that context, Beltrán, along with former bench coach Alex Cora, became a driving force behind the trash-can banging system that marked a culmination of the Astros’ use of electronics to steal signs illegally.

And some Astros players, even manager A.J. Hinch, felt powerless to stop him.

Hinch, in his recent interview with MLB Network, did not make excuses for his failure to prevent the Astros’ illegal practices, which led to his suspension for the 2020 season and subsequent firing. Beltrán’s sway over the clubhouse, however, helps explain the inaction of Hinch and his other coaches and players, even as some who were there say they felt conflicted about the team’s misconduct. The reluctance of anyone in uniform to challenge Beltrán spoke to the power of the accomplished veteran in the sport’s political pecking order.

The Astros during home games would use a video monitor positioned near the dugout to decode signs from a center-field camera, then bang on a trash can to alert the hitter to which pitch was coming. They used a different system on the road, decoding signs during games from feeds to the video replay room, then relaying the sequences from the replay room to the dugout to a runner at second base to the hitter.

“I was in my first year, man,” former Astros pitcher Joe Musgrove, now with the Pirates, said in a Jan. 24 interview on MLB Network. “Along with (Alex) Bregman and a lot of those guys, and in your first year in the big leagues you’re around guys like Beltrán and (Brian) McCann, some big names. And I’m not going to be the pitcher to walk up and tell ‘em to knock it off.”

Both McCann and Beltrán played for the Yankees during the 2014, ’15 and ’16 seasons before joining the Astros in ’17. But it was Beltrán who, according to multiple sources, told the Astros that their sign-stealing methods were “behind the times.”

During the season, small groups of Astros discussed their misgivings. McCann at one point approached Beltrán and asked him to stop, two members of the 2017 team said.

“He disregarded it and steamrolled everybody,” one of the team members said. “Where do you go if you’re a young, impressionable player with the Astros and this guy says, ‘We’re doing this’? What do you do?”

Beltrán did not respond to a request for comment. Half a dozen members of the 2017 team interviewed by The Athletic for this story spoke on the condition of anonymity.

---

Recently, commissioner Rob Manfred’s designation of the Astros’ cheating system as player-driven came into question.

The Wall Street Journal reported last week on a letter MLB sent Astros general manager Jeff Luhnow as part of its disciplinary process. In the letter, the league described efforts of lower-level Astros front office members, including director of advance information Tom Koch-Weser and director of team operations Derek Vigoa, in one segment of the sign-stealing process. Vigoa had developed an algorithm called “Codebreaker” in Excel that helped decode signs more quickly.

The introduction of Codebreaker was ultimately part of an attempt by the Astros to steal signs using their video replay room — something other teams were known to have been doing at the time, in various forms. During the 2017 season, the video replay room systems had been largely unchecked until the commissioner punished two teams, the Red Sox and Yankees, that September.

(As The Athletic previously reported, the Yankees used the video replay room to decode signs as early as 2015, Beltrán’s second season with the club. At the time, MLB’s rules for electronic sign stealing were broader and largely unenforced. Following the 2017 season, and again after 2018, MLB put more detailed and stricter measures in place to try to prevent real-time electronic sign-stealing.)

The Astros’ development of an algorithm to decode signs from video was legal as an advance scouting tool, and the use of that algorithm would have remained legal if it had not been deployed live during games — a practice the Astros eventually adopted. However, it was their other sign-stealing effort, involving the trash-can banging to signal pitches in real time, which Beltrán and Cora helped direct, that MLB found most egregious.

“What happened was Cora and Beltrán decided that this video room stuff Koch-Weser was doing (with Codebreaker) was just not working, inefficient, too slow,” a person with direct knowledge of the investigation said. “They just had some lower-level guy put up this monitor and did it themselves.”

“But it was two different things,” that person continued. “The real kind of crime here was they didn’t stop (in September) and the banging on the trash can was over the top compared to what happened before.”

The front-office clearly had a role in developing the Astros’ rule-breaking methods, and the environment in which those flourished. But the trash-can banging — the sign-stealing main event — originated with uniformed personnel.

---

Members of the 2017 Astros use various terms to describe Beltrán — El Jefe, the Godfather, the king, the alpha male in the building. Beltrán was 40 that season, capping off a 20-year career, seeking to add to his Hall of Fame resumé. No other person in the Astros’ clubhouse carried the same stature, including McCann, who was 33 that season and a less accomplished player.

In the culture of a major-league clubhouse, players adhere ritualistically to longtime codes. To at least some, former Astros pitcher Mike Fiers broke one of those codes — what happens in the clubhouse stays in the clubhouse — when he confirmed the Astros’ trash-can system to The Athletic. Deference to accomplished veterans is another enduring clubhouse dynamic.

Astros second baseman José Altuve was not yet an MVP. Future Hall of Fame pitcher Justin Verlander did not join the team until Aug. 31. Hinch, who had averaged 85 wins in his first two years with the Astros after a failed stint with the Diamondbacks, was not yet a World Series-winning manager.

Manfred’s report states that Hinch attempted to signal his disapproval of the Astros’ scheme by twice physically damaging a monitor that team members used to decode signs from the center-field feed, necessitating its replacement. But Hinch evidently feared he would lose credibility in his clubhouse by taking further steps.

“It’s complicated when you’re talking about a team and all the inner workings of a team,” Hinch told MLB Network, without referring specifically to Beltrán and Cora — the latter of whom remains under investigation by MLB for his roles both with the 2017 Astros and ’18 Red Sox. “But I just feel like I could have done more, looking back, especially the leader I feel like I am in 2019 versus where I was in 2017.

“I’m much more confident today than I was in 2017. Where I fell short is that I didn’t believe that at the time. Otherwise, I probably would have handled it differently. And I should have.”

Even for the Astros’ players, things are clearer in hindsight.

Nearly three years after the fact, some say they were uncomfortable with the trash-can banging system. Some members of the 2017 team, however, do not recall players dissenting at the time.

“No one ever said anything about how they didn’t agree with the system,” one team member said. “They loved hitting with the system.”

The players also continued their rule-breaking in 2018, after Beltrán had retired and Cora had left to become manager of the Red Sox. While The Athletic and MLB’s investigation found no evidence of the Astros using the trash-can banging system in ’18, Manfred’s report said, “the team’ replay review room staff continued, at least for part of the 2018 season, to decode signs using the live center field camera feed, and to transmit the signs to the dugout through in-person communication.”

The belief among many Astros that opponents also were skirting rules to gain a competitive advantage contributed to the players’ mixed feelings; one member of the 2017 team referred to electronic sign stealing during that time as an “epidemic.”

“Did we know for sure? No, but there was so much BS in the air about what to believe other teams were doing and not doing,” another team member said. “And so it got really muddled.”

---

Beltrán retired after the 2017 season, a World Series champion for the first time. Less than two months later, he returned to one of his former teams, the Yankees, as a special advisor to general manager Brian Cashman.

By that point, paranoia about illegal sign stealing had reached a fever pitch around the league. A good portion of that paranoia was directed at the Astros, and the Yankees already held suspicions about their seven-game loss to Houston in the 2017 American League Championship Series. Manfred’s report later made clear that the Astros used both the video replay room and the monitor next to the dugout to decode signs during the 2017 postseason.

One Yankees official said whenever he would ask what the Astros “were doing down there,” Beltrán would chuckle and say, “Nothing no one else is doing.” Two other former Yankees with the Astros, McCann and Joe Espada, who took over for Cora as bench coach in ’18, essentially would say the same in casual conversations with their former club. But Beltrán, according to one team source, divulged particulars of the Astros’ scheme to certain low-level Yankees officials, providing confirmation the team was justified in ramping up its efforts to combat sign stealing.

True to his reputation as a savvy observer of the game, Beltrán also astonished the Yankees with his ability to determine through video — legally — which of their prospects were tipping pitches. While his information proved useful, his overall impact was minimal, some with the team say.

Cora, on the other hand, had risen to stardom as the Red Sox manager, winning the World Series in 2018, his first season. In 2019, he and Beltrán were on opposite sides of the game’s biggest rivalry. And that June, without prompting, Cora made Beltrán’s role a surprising topic of discussion in a news conference after the Red Sox gave up 29 runs in two losses to the Yankees in the London Series.

“I was joking with someone that (the Yankees’) biggest free-agent acquisition was Carlos Beltrán,” Cora said, with a big wink. “I know how it works, you know? He’s helping a lot. They’re paying attention to details and we have to clean our details.”

“It was eye-opening the last few days, from top to bottom,” Cora continued. “And I’m not saying devices and all that stuff, it’s just stuff that the game will dictate and will scream at people and is right there. Throughout the evening, I was looking and I saw it, you know? And right now, they’re a lot better than us, so we need to get better.”

Even at the time — months before anyone learned of Cora’s and Beltrán’s role in rule-breaking with the 2017 Astros — the Yankees’ coaches found Cora’s comments curious. Beltrán was on the trip, but the coaches rarely saw him otherwise, and he had not been part of their preparation for the series. One player recalled clubhouse chatter in London about Beltrán’s relationship with Cora, and — in another example of the widespread paranoia throughout the industry — questions about whether Beltrán could be trusted with the Yankees’ secrets.

The Yankees again lost to the Astros in the ALCS, this time in six games. For Beltrán, the sting of José Altuve’s walk-off homer off Aroldis Chapman lasted only so long. On Nov. 1, he was named the new manager of another of his former teams, the Mets.

On Nov. 12, The Athletic reported that the Astros had stolen signs illegally in 2017, following with a story the next day identifying Beltrán and Cora as playing key roles in the system. Beltrán, in statements to The Athletic and New York Post, said he was not aware of the camera in center field, and said the Astros only stole signs legally.

Manfred announced the Astros’ punishment on Jan. 13, prompting the dismissals of Hinch and Luhnow. No players were suspended, but Manfred’s report confirmed Beltrán’s involvement in the Astros’ scheme.

The Red Sox fired Cora the next day.

The Mets parted ways with Beltrán two days after that.

“Over my 20 years in the game, I’ve always taken pride in being a leader and doing things the right way, and in this situation, I failed,” Beltrán said in a statement he released to media outlets. “As a veteran player on the team, I should’ve recognized the severity of the issue and truly regret the actions that were taken.

“I am a man of faith and integrity and what took place did not demonstrate those characteristics that are so very important to me and my family. I’m very sorry.”

Nearly a month has passed. Beltrán has not commented since.

As the Astros begin spring training this week, they will face numerous questions about their conduct in 2017 and ’18. Baseball is considering a series of changes to further clamp down on illegal sign stealing. Increased scrutiny and attention may prevent a system like the Astros’ from ever sprouting again, but the enduring lesson is that, if unchecked, teams will always seek an edge. And clubhouse dynamics generally do not prepare players to say, “enough.”

 

[WBT 20562]

6 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Both McCann and Beltrán played for the Yankees during the 2014, ’15 and ’16 seasons before joining the Astros in ’17. But it was Beltrán who, according to multiple sources, told the Astros that their sign-stealing methods were “behind the times.”

Such horseshit that it's looking like the Astros are the only team that is going to face serious punishment for this.

[Chuckie Finster 22694]

4 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Both McCann and Beltrán played for the Yankees during the 2014, ’15 and ’16 seasons before joining the Astros in ’17. But it was Beltrán who, according to multiple sources, told the Astros that their sign-stealing methods were “behind the times.”

 

[TonyTexas 10510]

41 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Threw Beltran under the fucking bus...

 

Who gives a fuck about Beltran. Let him and the Yankees take some heat. 

Edited February 11, 2020 by TonyTexas

[Beau Vine 54212]

3 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:

I would die for Joe Musgrove.

Does the revelation that the Astros cheated destroy what they accomplished that season?

“I don’t want to say it’s tainted,” Musgrove said, “but I think it is.”

[tx 3 putt 76908]

Hinch will have zero issues getting hired again

beltran and Cora are done

astro players need to issue a Martin type apology, ASAP 

[Chuckie Finster 22694]

6 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Does the revelation that the Astros cheated destroy what they accomplished that season?

“I don’t want to say it’s tainted,” Musgrove said, “but I think it is.”

I mean... yeah?  The "tainted" question is such a stupid one.  Part of winning a championship is the acknowledgement that you were the best that season.  If public perception has shifted and that feat is now in question, then by definition the title is now "tainted."  This lazy question serves no purpose other than to fuel the rage of fans of other teams.

Edited February 11, 2020 by Chuckie Finster

[Beau Vine 54212]

1 minute ago, Chuckie Finster said:

I mean... yeah?  The "tainted" question is such a stupid one.  Part of winning a championship is the acknowledgement that you were the best that season.  If public perception has shifted and that feat is now in question, which it absolutely has, then by definition the title is now "tainted."  This lazy question serves no purpose other than to fuel the rage of fans of other teams.

Sorry if that killed your boner, though.

Nah, I just need a scorecard of where everyone in this thread is on the subject of "tainted."  I mistakenly thought you were one of the people railing on Hinch earlier -- had you and cabowabo mixed up.

[Chuckie Finster 22694]

5 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Nah, I just need a scorecard of where everyone in this thread is on the subject of "tainted."  I mistakenly thought you were one of the people railing on Hinch earlier -- had you and cabowabo mixed up.

I mean, it's just such a stupid question.

If my wife hears a rumor that I'm cheating on her and divorces me and posts a long diatribe on Facebook about how I'm a scumbag... nobody would ask "is the relationship tainted now?" 

The answer is obviously yes, and that has no bearing on whether the allegations are true or what my thoughts are about them.  I'm not denying the Astros cheated, simply trying to point out that asking the players a question where the answer is 100% dependent on perception is so fucking dumb.  

Edited February 11, 2020 by Chuckie Finster

[NeverMarryAStripper 21899]

13 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

 "is the relationship tainted now?" 

Only if she pegged you

[IDIOTsavant 8483]

50 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

Only if she pegged you

And missed.

[clapclapclap 9000]

I wouldn't say it is more tainted then a lot of titles.  For example, I count 4 known Roiders on the 1998 Yankees, 7 in 1999, and 10 in 2000:

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Yankees-implicated-in-performance-enhancing-drug-3295306.php

Seems like 2 of the biggest differences are:

1. Mike Fiers

2. The Syracuse University School of Broadcast Journalism

Unfortunately about half the sports media grew up Yankees, Mets, or Red Sox fans or jumped on the bandwagon in college.

Edited February 12, 2020 by clapclapclap
I guess Mike Stanton probably won't be standing up to the hypocritical "I don't want to hear about steroids" lyin' dog-faced pony soldier Jim Memolo.  

[Lat22 4010]

I can’t believe that most of y’all are OK with this stuff. It’s going to get way worse before it gets better. The ONLY way to put it behind us is to win the whole thing this coming season. 

[Js1 85313]

 

[RGBIII 22840]

Not sure if out yet but the players are flying in tomorrow to make a big ole apology tour even the ones that haven’t reported yet. Crane wants to stop the bleeding and address it head on

Edited February 12, 2020 by RGBIII

[Scraps 13561]

Great can't wait for the same bs over and over

[Lat22 4010]

Players will get to use their team issued apologies/explanations starting today.

[texasdago 7572]

I love the "stealing signs is not illegal, transmitting them is illegal" or "the spreadsheet is not illegal"

OR

"the pile of cocaine isn't illegal, snorting it is illegal"  

Every team has a pile of coke.  Some have bigger straws than others.

[Storm the Field 5294]

12 hours ago, RGBIII said:

Crane wants to stop the bleeding and address it head on

Bleeding ain't gonna stop until some bigger story comes along.

Reporters looking to make a name will keep filing articles with deeper and deeper dives into all facets of the scandal. 

Among Yankees/Dodgers fans and the mental giants of r/baseball, every win this season will be evidence that we're still cheating, and every loss will be evidence that we only won due to cheating....etc. 

[Planet Houston 4930]

26 minutes ago, Storm the Field said:

Among Yankees/Dodgers fans and the mental giants of r/baseball, every win this season will be evidence that we're still cheating, and every loss will be evidence that we only won due to cheating....etc. 

[Mack Tripper 696]

Da fuck

[HtownHorn 14677]

1 hour ago, Mack Tripper said:

Da fuck

 

It's a joke. The whole fucking buzzer thing was concocted by a unknown twitter user with like 12 followers and further advanced by a Yankee fanboi. It's fucking ridiculous that actual journalists are running with it like it was confirmed from reputable sources.

[henrygandorf 29189]

4 hours ago, texasdago said:

I love the "stealing signs is not illegal, transmitting them is illegal" or "the spreadsheet is not illegal"

OR

"the pile of cocaine isn't illegal, snorting it is illegal"  

Every team has a pile of coke.  Some have bigger straws than others.

except possession of cocaine is illegal. possession of video of signs for scouting purposes (or the codebreaker spreadsheet) is not. real-time use of the info was the problem.

its actually backwards, as i don’t think the act of ingesting cocaine is illegal, other than the possession aspect.

but what do i know, my coke charge was changed to racketeering. 

 

[DaysOff 7947]

I love the "stealing signs is not illegal, transmitting them is illegal" or "the spreadsheet is not illegal"
OR
"the pile of cocaine isn't illegal, snorting it is illegal"  
Every team has a pile of coke.  Some have bigger straws than others.

Look to the internet when unsure

[tx 3 putt 76908]

I’m beginning to believe mlb vacates the 2017 WS 

[UTexasFight 9432]

It's a joke. The whole fucking buzzer thing was concocted by a unknown twitter user with like 12 followers and further advanced by a Yankee fanboi. It's fucking ridiculous that actual journalists are running with it like it was confirmed from reputable sources.

I don’t disagree but it would have been real fucking nice if Hinch had simply said “we did not use buzzers to my knowledge”

[texasdago 7572]

So the dealer shouldn't leave the coke out on the table but if someone walks by and snorts it, that's OK.  Just don't use a scale to weigh it.  THEN that's illegal.

 

[UTexasFight 9432]

I’m beginning to believe mlb vacates the 2017 WS 

 

A part of me is starting to feel this way too... but still don’t see how if the smoke leads to fire on all the speculation on other teams... and if that happens for 2017, not sure how they can’t vacate 2018 too

 

I think the final result will be everything stands and this ends up being the “sign stealing era” with asterisks for those that so choose to put that on things. This is just like the steroid era in so many ways. MLB fucked up then and they fucked up now.

Good effort trying it keep it under wraps but the cover is blown.

We were the worst offenders it would appear, but there will be no way to tease out definitively who cheated/benefited, and by how much, so let the results stand however “tainted” they may or may not be

[tx 3 putt 76908]

I’ll always have my 2017 WS caps and T-shirts !

[henrygandorf 29189]

12 minutes ago, texasdago said:

So the dealer shouldn't leave the coke out on the table but if someone walks by and snorts it, that's OK.  Just don't use a scale to weigh it.  THEN that's illegal.

 

i believe anyone near the blow can be charged with possession. depends on when the cops come in.