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2020 astros offseason

elfenix

By elfenix
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Eastwood
Eastwood

Here's the thing that makes me absolutely livid about this... Cheating happens all the time in baseball. At all levels. All levels. The MLB itself cheats the game by juicing the ball. Players juiced t

Asithappens
Asithappens

It's not the end, I agree. The Astros are still sacks of giant shit, though.  Shame on them.

Asithappens
Asithappens

Very sad to see that the Astros are basically dipshit cheaters from the top down. Hey, at least the Black Sox are happy that someone else is wearing their crown of infamy.    

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Mileslong

Mileslong 4728

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Posted
Good for us. I have no problem with sign stealing in any form whatsoever. It's part of baseball. If you don't like it, hide your shit better.

So should the Texans bug the locker rooms of the opposing teams? Intercept the coaches transmissions of the other team during a game? You’re a moron
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Mileslong

Mileslong 4728

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I’m cool with that.
Disturbing the establishment’s comfort zone is just fine...
I guess Mike Fiers won’t be getting any CFM or Gerrit Cole ovations at MMP.   Even if it’s true, why now?  Now’s the time to be that bitch?  Fuck him...

You call outright cheating “disturbing the establishments comfort zone”?
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Iceman

Iceman 2693

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18 minutes ago, Mileslong said:


You call outright cheating “disturbing the establishments comfort zone”?

I call the notion that the Astros are the only team doing it insanely convenient. 
 

The outrage us selective as hell, and the results don’t necessarily support how much advantage they achieved with their wretched dastardly deeds.

I didn’t care about the air in Tom’s balls and I don’t care about this.  We don’t throw the book at anyone when they really cheat their asses off.  Now this.  It’s crazy. 

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clapclapclap

clapclapclap 9000

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, WBT said:

Congrats to JV!  17 to 13...they almost were co winners.

I think this result now guarantees that Cole will choose to move on.  Probably increases the Yankees chances, maybe the Dodgers.  Its likely that if he had played for the Yankees this year he would have won it.

Both McTaggert and Footer voted for JV.  Had they reversed it would have been a tie.

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TexArcher

TexArcher 37764

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Posted
10 hours ago, pepper brooks said:

lets be clear here, on "cheating". The policy on the use of video was put into place in 2019.  The era in question for the astros was 2017.  now, they may have used video to violate the spirit of sign stealing, but it does not appear they were in violation of any official policy.  Frankly, I would guess the majority of teams were doing something similar. Doesn't make it right, but sign stealing has always been, and will always be part of baseball.  Granted its usually the job of coaches and players in the dugout.  THey probably took this one step ahead, but if there was nothing banning the practice why would you not be using it?  Sign stealing is sign stealing.  it's just part of the game.  Now that there is an official policy on the use of video to steal signs, that is a whole other equation.  Get caught doing that now, you should fry.  Bringing this up from 2017?  pound sand.  its nothing more than a media driven nonissue because they have an axe to grind against the organization who pushed back on the tuabman thing.  

All of this is correct.

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Mack Tripper

Mack Tripper 696

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This is a really good theory.


Major League Baseball’s investigation into the Astros and sign stealing is virtually certain to include interviews with three current managers — the Astros’ AJ Hinch, the Red Sox’s Alex Cora and the Mets’ Carlos Beltrán.

Hinch was the Astros’ manager in 2017, and sources said both Cora and Beltrán played a key role in devising the sign-stealing system the team used that season. The Astros stole signs electronically, according to pitcher Mike Fiers and three other sources inside the organization at the time, violating major league rules. The Athletic reported the news of the Astros’ rule-breaking on Tuesday.

Cora was the team’s bench coach in ’17; Beltrán was a designated hitter and outfielder in the final season of a 20-year career that might result in his election to the Hall of Fame. Multiple sources said they were not the only members of the team who participated in the Astros’ scheme that season.

The Astros’ system involved a camera in center field and a television monitor that was placed on a wall steps from the team’s home dugout at Minute Maid Park. Team employees and players would sit opposite the screen, watch a realtime feed fixed on the opposing catcher’s signs and then — if they decoded the signs successfully — reveal the expected pitch to hitters by banging on a trash can.

Not every Astros hitter wanted the help. “There were guys who didn’t like it,” said Fiers, who was with the Astros from 2015 to ‘17.

Cora and Hinch declined to comment. Beltrán, in a text message, said the Astros did nothing wrong.

“We took a lot of pride studying pitchers in the computer – that is the only technology that I use and I understand,” Beltrán said. “It was fun seeing guys get to the ballpark to look for little details.

“(In) the game of baseball, guys for years have given location and if the catchers get lazy and the pitcher doesn’t cover the signs from second base, of course players are going to take advantage.

“I don’t call that cheating. I call that using the small details to take advantage. I think baseball is doing a great job adding new technology to make sure the game is even for both teams.”

Stealing signs is not cheating when players receive and convey information the old-fashioned way: using their eyes, ears and hands. MLB rules, however, prohibit the relaying of signs and information through electronic means, and baseball established more comprehensive measures in 2019 to clamp down on such behavior.

The league’s Department of Investigation (DOI) will speak with current and former Astros employees, including players, sources said. To interview players, MLB first must notify the players’ union. Union officials routinely sit in on such interviews, acting as representatives for the players. The league has already begun reaching out to people connected to the 2017 Astros, sources said.

Before deciding on any potential penalties, baseball would need to determine if the Astros violated major league rules and whether the on-field personnel who stole signs acted with the knowledge and approval of the front office or operated on their own.

Commissioner Rob Manfred would determine any discipline for the Astros as a team as well as any individuals based upon the DOI’s findings. Manfred fined the Red Sox an undisclosed amount in 2017 after the league found the team had stolen signs through instant-replay monitoring and the use of Apple watches.

In his statement at the time, Manfred said, “future violations of this type will be subject to more serious sanctions, including the possible loss of draft picks.”

On a separate front, the league and clubs discussed possible ways to prevent sign stealing in the future at the general managers meetings this week in Arizona. One possibility, a source said, is that new technology could be introduced as soon as the 2020 season somewhere in the minor leagues.

Additional rule changes addressing sign stealing at the major league level are expected in 2020 as well, as the league attempts to keep pace with the issue.
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pepper brooks

pepper brooks 580

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

Well yeah, except for the part that I already corrected about it not being a violation in 2017.  

I saw that, and saw the quote, but the statement from the commissioner doesn't add up.  If it was against the rules and there was policy in 2017 then why was it "updated to include video", etc in 2019?  does that make sense?  seems a bit fishy to me.  

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Iceman

Iceman 2693

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Posted

The article fails( neglects) to mention if other teams are suspected of the same conduct.

 

It also remains a huge question, “ If multiple people/ former coaches/ players knew about the practice, why did teams not counter it better and why blow it up now, 2 years later?” Their conscience must have been killing them...

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Mack Tripper

Mack Tripper 696

Posted
Posted
The article fails( neglects) to mention if other teams are suspected of the same conduct.
 
It also remains a huge question, “ If multiple people/ former coaches/ players knew about the practice, why did teams not counter it better and why blow it up now, 2 years later?” Their conscience must have been killing them...

The first two articles from the Athletic did say it’s a league wide problem.
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YChang

YChang 3443

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Mack Tripper said:


The first two articles from the Athletic did say it’s a league wide problem.

Yeah, after the sensationalistic titles (for us at least), seems like the recent articles now are going more towards... it's a league wide problem. 

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, pepper brooks said:

I saw that, and saw the quote, but the statement from the commissioner doesn't add up.  If it was against the rules and there was policy in 2017 then why was it "updated to include video", etc in 2019?  does that make sense?  seems a bit fishy to me.  

I suspect it was like steroids.  It had always been against MLB rules to take any controlled substance not prescribed by a doctor.  But they were not specifically singled out until Faye Vincent sent a memo reminding of that policy in early 90s.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18849

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26 minutes ago, pepper brooks said:

Hinch isn't getting fired over this.  The Astros should probably get the same punishment the Red Sox received for the same thing.  

So far the evidence of camera use is he said, he said. Banging on a trash can doesn't prove use of technology. If the league finds evidence of camera use beyond the evidence we currently know about, I think they are going to want to make an example of the Astros, especially since we won the World Series for the year in question.

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thetruth

thetruth 149

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My biggest problem with the whole thing is that those titles read as "The Astros are using technology to steal signs.... and so is everyone else." But everyone seems to stop reading at Astros stealing signs, and are trying to hang them for it. Fiers is out there being Fiers telling everyone the Astros are the fucking satan, while other players across the league are saying "hey man, everyone does that shit."

 

https://twitter.com/theaceofspaeder/status/1195060364230242304?s=20

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54207

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3 hours ago, pepper brooks said:

The Astros should probably get the same punishment the Red Sox received for the same thing.  

lol...

Quote

“All 30 clubs have been notified that future violations of this type will be subject to more serious sanctions, including the possible loss of draft picks,” Manfred said in a statement.

 

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54207

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Just now, Guadaloopy said:

Go ahead and show us the 2018 and 2019 videos.  The 2017 stuff that is coming out now is contemporary with the Red Sox situation, not a “future violation.”

The Commish statement was made 9/15/2017.  The Farqhar game was 9/22/2017, so that was a future violation.

 

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Guadaloopy

Guadaloopy 10960

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I concede the point.  And you are probably right.  The Astros are looking at something more serious than the Red Sox in form of punishment.  But that has more to do with the fact that the Taubman situation focused Sauron’s eye on the Astros and made them open to any and all scrutiny.  Yeah, “everybody does it”, but the Astros got caught because they made some stupid PR moves and pissed off the wrong people.  

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