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Florida State fires Willie Taggart

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closetojumping

closetojumping 65666

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

FSU 247 board has a list of names to watch....

Mark Richt 

Bob Stoops 

Fleck

Dave Clawson 

Venables 

Jeff Scott (Clemson CO-OC) 

The Pirate

Matt Campbell (Lulz) 

Mark Stoops (Lulz for a different reason) 

Mike Norvell 

 

 

 

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I've heard Bob Stoops for months. Since the summer. But that's from my asshole, know-nothing best friend who's been fantasizing about Bob Stoops returning to haunt Mack Brown since Mack Brown was hired back to UNC. The sonofabitch may wind up being nails on it. I'll laugh. 

I can't see Richt being a candidate, much less the guy. FSU fans couldn't wait to see him leave. They might have chartered his jet for him to go to the Georgia interview. Plus the dude has health issues. Plus he sucks. 

I've always liked Venables as a dude and as a coach. I used to fantasize about Texas poaching him and firing Carl Reese when BV was co-DC at OU. I've just assumed that the dude has settled into a Mickey Andrews/Bud Foster kind of view of the world. He's got a great gig in a great place and he likes the work. You'd know better, so enlighten us about the mental state of BV these days.

13 hours ago, Dbeasy said:


Especially Oregon where you will get full booster support.

Not that I disagree at all about support at Oregon, but FSU just uncoupled their booster vehicle from the school and AD, basically to reduce/remove visibility into most of their activities. I think both places have booster groups that will go all out in "support" when the product makes sense. 

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closetojumping

closetojumping 65666

Posted
Posted

I'm probably in a minority on this board and among CFB fans on this one. I think Taggart should have gotten 3 years. I'm not being some old school clown on that. Turnarounds are fucking hard. I've been involved with them in the business world and there are strong parallels to turning around a major sports program. There are case studies used across the segments to inform the other. I don't think Taggart became a shit coach overnight and he was left a mess to deal with, but yeah, I've also watched the games and man, FSU looks lost and undisciplined. 

Of course, even though I knew Watson was a mistake hire for Strong; even though I knew it was a mistake to bring Watson back; even though I knew the offense wouldn't be changing in the second year;  even though I watched the blowout at Notre Dame without even a hint of surprise; even though I left the sports bar and went to the movies in the second quarter of the TCU blowout later that year - I still felt sure Charlie Strong was going to get a 3rd year and understood when he got it. That said, I think we'd be better off as a football program had he been unceremoniously shitcanned during/after year 2. So I get the firing now of Taggart.

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Loco

Loco 3754

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

... I don't think Taggart became a shit coach overnight and he was left a mess to deal with, but yeah, I've also watched the games and man, FSU looks lost and undisciplined. 

 

If you have watched them play and felt like Taggart needed more time...  I have no words.  I just wanted him to stick around but that's because I'm a Gator, it's hilarious, and I have seen the Noles play.

 

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SwanderedTalent

SwanderedTalent 5761

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

That said, I think we'd be better off as a football program had he been unceremoniously shitcanned during/after year 2. So I get the firing now of Taggart.

I think the specific game timing was interesting. Charlie should have been fired the day after the TCU loss his second year and it took us all the way through the 2016 season to actually fucking fire him. We kept him AFTER the Kansas loss. 

Taggart-- I mean, was this Miami loss particularly unusual for them? It didn't seem like it, the ~12-15 minutes I watched. They're terrible, they've been terrible. It wasn't like it was 63-14. I know losing by 17 to one of your two arch-rivals sucks, being 4-5 sucks, etc. I'm not really sure where the impetus comes from here to do it mid-season and let the guy walk with $17m, unless they really think they're getting to be first in line for hiring the guy they want. 

Not arguing he should have been retained, just expressing surprise that his performance rose to the level of mid-season firing.

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Rhinotx

Rhinotx 506

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Landomatic said:

Plus in Tallahassee Florida, he can just ditch the under shirt altogether and go with the full sleeveless wife beater look.

1173869063.jpeg&

WTF is this smock that he wears. I'd rather have Gundy's mullet than wear whatever this thing is.

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Treefidy

Treefidy 1507

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

that's not how that works

I mean, strong took less than market salary and we paid the difference, have you seen jumbos contract?

Edited by Treefidy
Not that I was being serious, but then again who would have imagined a $75MM guaranteed contract with no buyout?
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Landomatic

Landomatic 3813

Posted
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Rhinotx said:

WTF is this smock that he wears. I'd rather have Gundy's mullet than wear whatever this thing is.

It's like someone told him he needed a gimmick so he went through a list of head coach sideline wardrobe schtick and it was the only thing left.

Visor

Necktie

Hoody

Short Sleeve Hoody

Fedora

Mullet

Sweater Vest

Orange Pants

Top Button

Long sleeves all the time...even in August...in Texas

Wife Beater Smock Over a Thin Short Sleeve Hoody

Edited by Landomatic
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Catdaddyhorn

Catdaddyhorn 3468

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, closetojumping said:

I'm probably in a minority on this board and among CFB fans on this one. I think Taggart should have gotten 3 years. I'm not being some old school clown on that. Turnarounds are fucking hard. I've been involved with them in the business world and there are strong parallels to turning around a major sports program. There are case studies used across the segments to inform the other. I don't think Taggart became a shit coach overnight and he was left a mess to deal with, but yeah, I've also watched the games and man, FSU looks lost and undisciplined. 

Of course, even though I knew Watson was a mistake hire for Strong; even though I knew it was a mistake to bring Watson back; even though I knew the offense wouldn't be changing in the second year;  even though I watched the blowout at Notre Dame without even a hint of surprise; even though I left the sports bar and went to the movies in the second quarter of the TCU blowout later that year - I still felt sure Charlie Strong was going to get a 3rd year and understood when he got it. That said, I think we'd be better off as a football program had he been unceremoniously shitcanned during/after year 2. So I get the firing now of Taggart.

Compared to the staff Taggart brought to Oregon he brought a shit staff with him to Fla St. He had many of the same issues Strong had in bringing quality assistant coaches to Texas, albeit for different reasons. Taggart clearly put together his A1/first tier/I've got my ready made list of coaches I want to hire, when he got the Oregon job. The Fla St job came and he was left without the same prep time (ie his entire coaching life) to put together a quality staff. He had multiple assistant coaches on his Fla St staff who had duplicate roles on other staffs. And the results showed. His Fla St squads over the past 2 years were among the worst coached teams I've ever seen on the P5 level. He did himself a serious disservice leaving so early after getting his first P5 job. 

Edited by Catdaddyhorn
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Al_4_ISU

Al_4_ISU 12700

Posted
Posted

Campbell at 3 to 1.

I don't think he stays in Ames forever, but I definitely don't see him wading into this dumpster fire, especially when he has zero ties to that institution/part of the country.  He wants a Rust Belt blue blood.  

I'm curious if these odds are just based on the standard "no one wants to stay in Ames, Iowa" stuff or if Vegas knows something.

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ClubWhatever

ClubWhatever 12362

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Campbell at 3 to 1.

I don't think he stays in Ames forever, but I definitely don't see him wading into this dumpster fire, especially when he has zero ties to that institution/part of the country.  He wants a Rust Belt blue blood.  

I'm curious if these odds are just based on the standard "no one wants to stay in Ames, Iowa" stuff or if Vegas knows something.

I agree on him not wanting this.  It's really not his wheelhouse.  I think those odds are high because he's seen as the highest ratio of gettableness to goodness.

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Doc Sam Beckett

Doc Sam Beckett 5912

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, closetojumping said:

I've always liked Venables as a dude and as a coach. I used to fantasize about Texas poaching him and firing Carl Reese when BV was co-DC at OU. I've just assumed that the dude has settled into a Mickey Andrews/Bud Foster kind of view of the world. He's got a great gig in a great place and he likes the work. You'd know better, so enlighten us about the mental state of BV these days.

 

 

I agree with you about Venables, he's making bank in a good situation and having fun doing it. He pretty much has it made, but he's also pretty damn competitive. I think with the right situation, he would leave for a HC gig, but I'm not sure FSU is that situation. 

 

1 hour ago, SwanderedTalent said:

Taggart-- I mean, was this Miami loss particularly unusual for them? It didn't seem like it

Yeah, it wasn't particularly unusual for them, and that's the problem. Taggart was 0-5 against Clemson, Florida, and Miami. 

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Parliament

Parliament 14645

Posted
Posted
50 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Campbell at 3 to 1.

I don't think he stays in Ames forever, but I definitely don't see him wading into this dumpster fire, especially when he has zero ties to that institution/part of the country.  He wants a Rust Belt blue blood.  

I'm curious if these odds are just based on the standard "no one wants to stay in Ames, Iowa" stuff or if Vegas knows something.

Campbell is the next Michigan coach (whenever that happens).  

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Bill Lumbergh

Bill Lumbergh 7351

Posted
Posted
I think the specific game timing was interesting. Charlie should have been fired the day after the TCU loss his second year and it took us all the way through the 2016 season to actually fucking fire him. We kept him AFTER the Kansas loss. 
Taggart-- I mean, was this Miami loss particularly unusual for them? It didn't seem like it, the ~12-15 minutes I watched. They're terrible, they've been terrible. It wasn't like it was 63-14. I know losing by 17 to one of your two arch-rivals sucks, being 4-5 sucks, etc. I'm not really sure where the impetus comes from here to do it mid-season and let the guy walk with $17m, unless they really think they're getting to be first in line for hiring the guy they want. 
Not arguing he should have been retained, just expressing surprise that his performance rose to the level of mid-season firing.
Timing makes me wonder if this has been decided for a while and terms are agreed to with the replacement. That's the only reason I could see for announcing right now vs earlier or later.
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BornOrange1955

BornOrange1955 77

Posted
Posted

I think there is more to it than the quality of football. Behind the scenes, I'm guessing he just didn't put forth the vibe that he was the right guy. That was my impression of Charlie Strong here also, but I wanted him to succeed so I ignored my gut. Firing a coach in the middle of the season of his second year doesn't make it look like a great situation to step into. When you think of yourself as being a top tier job, but no one else does, you end up being forced to offer a "name" coach a ten year contract at $7.5MM per year, way over market value. Not that I'm naming any names.

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Loco

Loco 3754

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Bill Lumbergh said:
1 hour ago, SwanderedTalent said:
I think the specific game timing was interesting. Charlie should have been fired the day after the TCU loss his second year and it took us all the way through the 2016 season to actually fucking fire him. We kept him AFTER the Kansas loss. 
Taggart-- I mean, was this Miami loss particularly unusual for them? It didn't seem like it, the ~12-15 minutes I watched. They're terrible, they've been terrible. It wasn't like it was 63-14. I know losing by 17 to one of your two arch-rivals sucks, being 4-5 sucks, etc. I'm not really sure where the impetus comes from here to do it mid-season and let the guy walk with $17m, unless they really think they're getting to be first in line for hiring the guy they want. 
Not arguing he should have been retained, just expressing surprise that his performance rose to the level of mid-season firing.

Timing makes me wonder if this has been decided for a while and terms are agreed to with the replacement. That's the only reason I could see for announcing right now vs earlier or later.

or they are trying to get first inline.  I am sure fsu feels like they are a premium position (and as far as football goes, that's probably true)  I think that:

  1. They couldn't just watch the program dissolve and lose more support (see 3)
  2. They knew they were going to make a change
  3. Boosters had the money ready to go 
  4. They didn't want anybody making a move without giving them a look
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TXSG8R

TXSG8R 3362

Posted
Posted
57 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Compared to the staff Taggart brought to Oregon he brought a shit staff with him to Fla St. He had many of the same issues Strong had in bringing quality assistant coaches to Texas, albeit for different reasons. Taggart clearly put together his A1/first tier/I've got my ready made list of coaches I want to hire, when he got the Oregon job. The Fla St job came and he was left without the same prep time (ie his entire coaching life) to put together a quality staff. He had multiple assistant coaches on his Fla St staff who had duplicate roles on other staffs. And the results showed. His Fla St squads over the past 2 years were among the worst coached teams I've ever seen on the P5 level. He did himself a serious disservice leaving so early after getting his first P5 job. 

He went 10-2 once, at USF, with the following schedule.

W - Towson - final record of 4-7

W - Northern Illinois - 5-7

W - Syracuse - 4-8

L - FSU - 10-3

W - Cincinnati - 4-8

W - ECU - 3-9

W - Uconn - 3-9

L - Temple - 10-4

W - Navy - 9-5

W - Memphis - 8-5

W - SMU - 5-8

W - UCF - 6-7

W - SCar - 6-7

 

So 2 wins over teams with a winning record in his one good season.  Outside of that hes been around a .500 coach, and never stays anywhere long enough to show he can run a program, just pull them from bottom feeder to average.  

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dcar00

dcar00 15059

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Loco said:

or they are trying to get first inline.  I am sure fsu feels like they are a premium position (and as far as football goes, that's probably true)  I think that:

  1. They couldn't just watch the program dissolve and lose more support (see 3)
  2. They knew they were going to make a change
  3. Boosters had the money ready to go 
  4. They didn't want anybody making a move without giving them a look

yes, boosters had the money ready to go might as well be first in line.

FSU doesn't care about a bad look. they want to win and aggy took care of their mack brown for them, they hired taggart and it is obvious after 2 years it is a mistake. 

Edited by dcar00
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Apex73

Apex73 313

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Nueces River Rat said:

an....   

And you obviously didn't see the sarcasm  in my post.  

Idiot on along......

Touché.  Looks like I am the idiot here.  Drinking too much isn’t good for grammar or apparently reading context in my case yesterday.

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Al_4_ISU

Al_4_ISU 12700

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Parliament said:

I agree with that.  Campbell is good people, and not just because he is from Ohio.  

ETA

How is harvest going for you?  Is it a shit show?

We're in the area that's completely out of LP.  So we're completely ground to a halt with about 4 weeks of corn left.

On the the plus side, I might get to watch OU take their aggression out on us on Saturday night, so I got that going for me.

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Sbbruin

Sbbruin 22196

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

Florida State is a rebuilding mess right now. They're not going to get a big-name head coach, because who'd want to put up with that kind of shit for a second-tier job? It will either be an up-and-comer or a coordinator. James Franklin? Urban Meyer? Not a chance. 

Not sure I agree with the assessment that FSU is a 2nd tier job.

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Al_4_ISU

Al_4_ISU 12700

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Parliament said:

Are you wet?  Is your ground freezing up?  Beans are almost done here, and it's froze and dry.  Sadly, that's a positive.

The ground isn't wet, but the corn moisture is still high.  Ground isn't frozen, but they're talking some serious cold over the weekend that might do it.  Our tillage is caught up to what's actually been harvested, so that's a bigger problem than getting froze out at this juncture.

We've been done with beans for over a week, but we never had to deal with a fucking blizzard like you guys did.

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Catdaddyhorn

Catdaddyhorn 3468

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

He went 10-2 once, at USF, with the following schedule.

W - Towson - final record of 4-7

W - Northern Illinois - 5-7

W - Syracuse - 4-8

L - FSU - 10-3

W - Cincinnati - 4-8

W - ECU - 3-9

W - Uconn - 3-9

L - Temple - 10-4

W - Navy - 9-5

W - Memphis - 8-5

W - SMU - 5-8

W - UCF - 6-7

W - SCar - 6-7

 

So 2 wins over teams with a winning record in his one good season.  Outside of that hes been around a .500 coach, and never stays anywhere long enough to show he can run a program, just pull them from bottom feeder to average.  

All this is true, but adding a garbage staff onto it all exacerbates his endemic issues.  As for why they got rid of him now I think there's an easy answer for that. They didn't want to deal with any potential for a miraculous finish. Get rid of him after a shitty loss just in case he finds a way to finish out on a 3 or 4 game win streak which would justifiably make it more difficult to fire him when you've already determined that he's not the man for the job. 

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Nueces River Rat

Nueces River Rat 5828

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Apex73 said:

Touché.  Looks like I am the idiot here.  Drinking too much isn’t good for grammar or apparently reading context in my case yesterday.

No problem man.   We all DWP (Drinking While Posting)  once in a while and miss a few things and wish we could revise and extend our remarks.

 

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8350

Posted
Posted (edited)

Bud Elliott of the Banner Society is an FSU guy and one of his main points was that Taggart created an untenable situation for himself by refusing to admit what a shitshow Jimbo left behind. He was telling the boosters that the turnaround would be quick, that there was a lot of talent on the roster, etc., which left the big cigars with two options regarding Taggart's abilities: either he was terrible at developing talent and in-game management, or he couldn't recognize talent for shit. Option C -- that Taggart might have been, I honestly don't know, just trying not to make waves by pointing the finger at Jimbo, or something along those lines, did not figure into the thinking in Tallahassee. 

Edited by MaybeACoordinator
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TBGFL

TBGFL 397

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Bud Elliott of the Banner Society is an FSU guy and one of his main points was that Taggart created an untenable situation for himself by refusing to admit what a shitshow Jimbo left behind. He was telling the boosters that the turnaround would be quick, that there was a lot of talent on the roster, etc., which left the big cigars with two options regarding Taggart's abilities: either he was terrible at developing talent and in-game management, or he couldn't recognize talent for shit. Option C -- that Taggart might have been, I honestly don't know, just trying not to make waves by pointing the finger at Jimbo, or something along those lines, did not figure into the thinking in Tallahassee. 

Correct. He oversold the condition the program was in and how long it would take to fix to the boosters. LLetting Taggart go before the end of his 2nd season with $20M of raised donor money doesn't look good but FSU is a top tier job, certainly more top shelf than Aggy, and it will attract interest from good candidates.

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Sbbruin

Sbbruin 22196

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Bud Elliott of the Banner Society is an FSU guy and one of his main points was that Taggart created an untenable situation for himself by refusing to admit what a shitshow Jimbo left behind. He was telling the boosters that the turnaround would be quick, that there was a lot of talent on the roster, etc., which left the big cigars with two options regarding Taggart's abilities: either he was terrible at developing talent and in-game management, or he couldn't recognize talent for shit. Option C -- that Taggart might have been, I honestly don't know, just trying not to make waves by pointing the finger at Jimbo, or something along those lines, did not figure into the thinking in Tallahassee. 

Yeah, one thing Chip Kelly has continued to point out was what a lack of talent Mora left him.  Not in so many words, but he has made sure to make that clear.  

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TXSG8R

TXSG8R 3362

Posted
Posted
41 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

All this is true, but adding a garbage staff onto it all exacerbates his endemic issues.  As for why they got rid of him now I think there's an easy answer for that. They didn't want to deal with any potential for a miraculous finish. Get rid of him after a shitty loss just in case he finds a way to finish out on a 3 or 4 game win streak which would justifiably make it more difficult to fire him when you've already determined that he's not the man for the job. 

True to some degree I guess.  I think their biggest thing was appeasing boosters, and getting a jump on the coaching search.  Waiting until the end of the year wrecks recruiting, and could leave you holding the bag because a different program hired the guy you wanted.  

My point was more to your "he didnt have the right staff" and posts like CTJ thinking he needed more time.  When has he shown that he can put together a program, much less sustain it?  He took teams from bottom feeders to .500, and took the money and ran when someone else came calling.  Him getting fired now is the best case scenario for him.  He got 17 million to walk away, and he can say he didn't get enough time and find some other program to buy into his sales pitch.  If he stuck around and they failed to make a bowl game again, it only hurts his stock going forward.  

 

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TXSG8R

TXSG8R 3362

Posted
Posted
Just now, Sbbruin said:

So as I understand it, Taggert gets $17 mil, but FSU is on the hook to Oregon for $3 mil and South Florida for $1.3.  And then there's like $8 mil in assistant buyouts.  What a colossal shitshow.

yea, like 40 million when its all said and done.  

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TXSG8R

TXSG8R 3362

Posted
Posted
Just now, Sbbruin said:

spacer.png

 

But honestly, doesn't Florida State University exist for no other reason than its football team?  It's not really a school, is it?

They have been making a push to improve since the legislature forced them to.  I think they are a top 20 public university now.  I do know they are deeply in debt because of trying to keep up with the football haves, hence having to have boosters entirely fund getting rid of Taggart.  

https://www.tampabay.com/sports/fsu-seminoles/2019/07/01/another-reason-why-fsus-willie-taggart-isnt-on-the-hot-seat-money/

 

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