Solar Panels for the house

[troph 24810]

Btw speaking of no math, the solar companies don’t seem to like being pinned down on power generation and use - for good reason.  
 

but yesterday - as favorable* as a winter day as we could have - we produced 73 kWh and consumed 31 kWh. The batteries had to be charged fully too so we sent a net 21 kWh to the grid. We did pull 6 kWh the night before because the batteries hadn’t had time to charge (came on line mid day).   Last night the batteries (fully charged) powered the whole house and we woke up with 45% power remaining, solar kicked in at 42%. We did run 3 mini split HVAC units over night some too but they didn’t have to run long. Pool pump was off for pool repairs and our car is in the shop for tires so no car charging either but still we appear to be even over powered, which is fine. Only variable is summer time draw, our max capacity is 60 amps at any time on battery power. I really do want to go legit neutral if not negative.  We don’t mind pulling some from the grid to use credits but I’d like to run without grid power and put clean energy back into it on these easy days so if we do pull later we can at least point to our clean addition to the grid. We will see the choke points in the coming months for sure.
 

*Favorable because full sun and mild temps. Summer will likely produce more power with longer days and a better angle for the sun, but the energy draw… o_O.

Edited February 22, 2023 by troph

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

1 hour ago, troph said:

Btw speaking of no math, the solar companies don’t seem to like being pinned down on power generation and use - for good reason.  
 

but yesterday - as favorable* as a winter day as we could have - we produced 73 kWh and consumed 31 kWh. The batteries had to be charged fully too so we sent a net 21 kWh to the grid. We did pull 6 kWh the night before because the batteries hadn’t had time to charge (came on line mid day).   Last night the batteries (fully charged) powered the whole house and we woke up with 45% power remaining, solar kicked in at 42%. We did run 3 mini split HVAC units over night some too but they didn’t have to run long. Pool pump was off for pool repairs and our car is in the shop for tires so no car charging either but still we appear to be even over powered, which is fine. Only variable is summer time draw, our max capacity is 60 amps at any time on battery power. I really do want to go legit neutral if not negative.  We don’t mind pulling some from the grid to use credits but I’d like to run without grid power and put clean energy back into it on these easy days so if we do pull later we can at least point to our clean addition to the grid. We will see the choke points in the coming months for sure.
 

*Favorable because full sun and mild temps. Summer will likely produce more power with longer days and a better angle for the sun, but the energy draw… o_O.

Now this is the kind of helpful info people need. Very interested to see how it goes for y’all. 

[Gil Bang 25960]

3 hours ago, Viper said:

I've had vivint come out like 3 times trying to do solar. they wanted to do a loan that I'd pay off instead of paying the electricity bill, but looking at the numbers the loan was costing an extra $10K or so compared to just paying for it. Once I told them I didn't want to do a loan, they stopped asking me, so it seems like they're just using solar to get into the loan financing business.

I wouldn't mind solar, but I have a gas heater and stove so don't have a super high electricity bill, and I'm never sure what company to trust to stick around for any warranty. Would it be worth it to do on a 10-15 year old roof?

I put solar on a 15 year old roof with no issues. 

[Dahobbs 17544]

18 hours ago, Doc Daneeka said:

I’ve looked into this multiple times and just can’t make it work. A lot of favorable roof space, but I have gas heat and water. The solar guys show up and swear I’ll be better off but then I break out the usage spreadsheets and they squint and frown and tap-tap-tap on their iPads and say, “I’ll do some research and text you the numbers.”

I’d do it if I could even ballpark break even all-in, but it seems unlikely any time soon. I doubt even an EV would tip the scales.

Is the cost of solar going to come down to make this viable, even with tax credits (which is another level of complication), or are power prices going to be the change that makes this a reasonable option?

Where do you live? Whether it makes sense financially or not depends upon your area, your electric rates, and risk appetite. Prices in the US are a lot higher than elsewhere. Until Covid and supply chain hell, residential prices per KW were consistently dropping. With continued supply chain issues AND our economic fight with China (which is an indispensable part of the solar supply chain right now), I doubt you see a major drop in prices anytime soon. 

3 hours ago, Viper said:

I've had vivint come out like 3 times trying to do solar. they wanted to do a loan that I'd pay off instead of paying the electricity bill, but looking at the numbers the loan was costing an extra $10K or so compared to just paying for it. Once I told them I didn't want to do a loan, they stopped asking me, so it seems like they're just using solar to get into the loan financing business.

I wouldn't mind solar, but I have a gas heater and stove so don't have a super high electricity bill, and I'm never sure what company to trust to stick around for any warranty. Would it be worth it to do on a 10-15 year old roof?

See below on the "loans." With a 15 year old roof, you'd likely want to replace the thing anyway, but certainly before installing panels. I mean, you could install panels on it, it is just that you'll have to pay to take them down and put them back on again when the roof needs replacing. 

On 8/18/2022 at 10:01 PM, Dahobbs said:

My advice, don't finance through the solar companies. Get cash bids. In general, you'll find them to be 20% lower. If you need financing, do it through a separate financial institution (e.g., as part of a refi). 

As to batteries, it is best to think of them as a separate purchase. They aren't going to pay for themselves most likely (absent a few locations where you need them to shift to lower night time rates). They are quasi insurance, quasi consumable goods your purchase for the peace of mind. 

 

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

I’m in Fort Worth. I doubt the price will ever get low enough for me to justify it in this house. 

[Dahobbs 17544]

5 minutes ago, Doc Daneeka said:

I’m in Fort Worth. I doubt the price will ever get low enough for me to justify it in this house. 

I'm a bit surprised you're having trouble in Fort Worth. Is the roof layout or tree coverage problematic (e.g., mainly northern facing roofline or lots of shade)? Or are your current electric prices just really cheap?

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

I'm a bit surprised you're having trouble in Fort Worth. Is the roof layout or tree coverage problematic (e.g., mainly northern facing roofline or lots of shade)? Or are your current electric prices just really cheap?

Big south-facing roof. No shade. East and west exposure.

I have gas heat and water heater and that appears to be a deal killer. 

[Gil Bang 25960]

18 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Where do you live? Whether it makes sense financially or not depends upon your area, your electric rates, and risk appetite. Prices in the US are a lot higher than elsewhere. Until Covid and supply chain hell, residential prices per KW were consistently dropping. With continued supply chain issues AND our economic fight with China (which is an indispensable part of the solar supply chain right now), I doubt you see a major drop in prices anytime soon. 

See below on the "loans." With a 15 year old roof, you'd likely want to replace the thing anyway, but certainly before installing panels. I mean, you could install panels on it, it is just that you'll have to pay to take them down and put them back on again when the roof needs replacing. 

 

The roof part depends on the life expectancy of the roof.   I think you Texans have more roofing issues than people out here.  I expect my roof to last 25-30 years, so replacing it when it's  only 50% used up doesn't make any sense.  I'll pay the $1200 bucks to have the panels removed and re-installed when the time comes for a new roof. 

[Amos Moses 795]

Lol. Whole lotta feel good, back patting fart sniffing going on in here. Carry on all you carbon warriors.

[Gil Bang 25960]

6 minutes ago, Amos Moses said:

Lol. Whole lotta feel good, back patting fart sniffing going on in here. Carry on all you carbon warriors.

Go lay down under the tailpipe of a running car, and take deep breaths of that delicious smell that you love so much. 

[Dahobbs 17544]

29 minutes ago, Doc Daneeka said:

Big south-facing roof. No shade. East and west exposure.

I have gas heat and water heater and that appears to be a deal killer. 

I'm just not understanding how that could be a deal killer. It just means you buy less panels. If you're trying to make a loan from a solar company work in a way that will be cashflow positive, please again see my prior post on those loans. They literally build in a 20% markup if you get a loan. If you need a loan, get your own financing and get a cash bid. But, being in Fort Worth with a big south facing roof, there isn't any reason you couldn't get a system that would pay for itself in 7 years. Whether that is worthwhile for you or not is matter of personal preference. 

3 minutes ago, Amos Moses said:

Lol. Whole lotta feel good, back patting fart sniffing going on in here. Carry on all you carbon warriors.

Glad you could stop by with this pointless post. Personally, I like money. Something that saves me money is good. 

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

I'm just not understanding how that could be a deal killer. It just means you buy less panels. If you're trying to make a loan from a solar company work in a way that will be cashflow positive, please again see my prior post on those loans. They literally build in a 20% markup if you get a loan. If you need a loan, get your own financing and get a cash bid. But, being in Fort Worth with a big south facing roof, there isn't any reason you couldn't get a system that would pay for itself in 7 years. Whether that is worthwhile for you or not is matter of personal preference. 

Glad you could stop by with this pointless post. Personally, I like money. Something that saves me money is good. 

I mean, I can try to dig up the quotes. I don’t use enough electricity to justify the necessary infrastructure to make the panels work. 

My average electricity bill is $98. Seven years of bills is $8232. How much is a system that pays for itself in seven years going to cost me?

[Amos Moses 795]

9 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

Go lay down under the tailpipe of a running car, and take deep breaths of that delicious smell that you love so much. 

Sure. Wake me up when all your batteries, panels, and EVs are actually carbon neutral. I’ll still be here … or maybe I won’t.

[Dahobbs 17544]

1 minute ago, Amos Moses said:

Sure. Wake me up when all your batteries, panels, and EVs are actually carbon neutral. I’ll still be here … or maybe I won’t.

No human production activity on its own is going to be completely carbon neutral at this point. However, as the grid and transportation gets greener, the associated carbon releases with other activities will lessen. Even before that, something a passenger EV is going to reach the carbon breakeven point a few years into existence. So, overall releases will be substantially reduced. Truly getting to net-zero releases will require some form of carbon capture, preferably one that itself can be used for other economic activity. An example of this is using captured CO2 with concrete, reducing the need for other material that would release CO2 and storing the captured CO2 in the concrete itself. 

[Amos Moses 795]

I appreciate the good faith response and I’m well aware of the timelines. I’ll make a motion to excuse you from the fart sniffers flock.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10249]

Are you guys adding battery systems as well? What's the approximate increased payback period when doing so?  Obviously lots of variables... trying to get feel for is it worth doing without battery system and/or how much longer I might need to stay put for it to payback if adding one.

[Upgrayedd 5812]

18 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

No human production activity on its own is going to be completely carbon neutral at this point. However, as the grid and transportation gets greener, the associated carbon releases with other activities will lessen. Even before that, something a passenger EV is going to reach the carbon breakeven point a few years into existence. So, overall releases will be substantially reduced. Truly getting to net-zero releases will require some form of carbon capture, preferably one that itself can be used for other economic activity. An example of this is using captured CO2 with concrete, reducing the need for other material that would release CO2 and storing the captured CO2 in the concrete itself. 

I think you have the carbon capture of concrete backwards 

[Gil Bang 25960]

15 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Are you guys adding battery systems as well? What's the approximate increased payback period when doing so?  Obviously lots of variables... trying to get feel for is it worth doing without battery system and/or how much longer I might need to stay put for it to payback if adding one.

I did not.  It probably would have made sense eventually, but I wasn't willing to make the investment. 

[troph 24810]

1 hour ago, Amos Moses said:

Lol. Whole lotta feel good, back patting fart sniffing going on in here. Carry on all you carbon warriors.

EABOD! 

 

yes that’s my diesel truck with ranch hand grill guard and bumper and lifted just the right amount with big wheels. We can love our solar and still out fish, out shoot and out man truck your ass. Vroom vroom. 

Edited February 22, 2023 by troph

[Upgrayedd 5812]

4 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

I did not.  It probably would have made sense eventually, but I wasn't willing to make the investment. 

Nor did I.  Might have if I was in an area with higher probabilities of power interruptions, but that’s rare in my part of San Diego.

[troph 24810]

28 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Are you guys adding battery systems as well? What's the approximate increased payback period when doing so?  Obviously lots of variables... trying to get feel for is it worth doing without battery system and/or how much longer I might need to stay put for it to payback if adding one.

We did. We have two powerwalls. They are already 100% charged and we are running AC for about 2000 sq feet with power back to the grid. Hoping we can run the night shift again with no grid power. These sunny days hopefully will make up for the cloudy ones when we need the grid.

25 years like $350/mo for us, hoping for a near zero bill monthly after credits.  We routinely had $500/month bills in smaller houses so we expect $150/month in savings. Wildcards for us are ICF build and 9 ducted mini splits so we can target cooling or heating over night in select rooms instead of 2 large traditional HVAC systems that warm or cool unused spaces.

I think batteries start to make sense on the economics when your bill gets high enough. And of course as a grid failure back up. 

Edited February 22, 2023 by troph

[Gil Bang 25960]

5 minutes ago, Upgrayedd said:

Nor did I.  Might have if I was in an area with higher probabilities of power interruptions, but that’s rare in my part of San Diego.

Yeah, SDGE fucking sucks rate-wise, but the power tends to stay on.   We had a brief outage last week, and I can't remember the one before that. 

[Dahobbs 17544]

23 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Are you guys adding battery systems as well? What's the approximate increased payback period when doing so?  Obviously lots of variables... trying to get feel for is it worth doing without battery system and/or how much longer I might need to stay put for it to payback if adding one.

I added battery storage after the winter storm. Because I have a net metering plan, the battery backup doesn't provide any source of regular economic return. I view it more of an insurance policy/luxury in the event of significant power outages (and, being in Houston, hurricanes would count among those reasons). 

17 minutes ago, Upgrayedd said:

I think you have the carbon capture of concrete backwards 

Not exactly. Currently, creating cement results in the release of a lot of CO2. However, by utilizing captured CO2 it should be possible to reduce the amount of CO2 released when creating cement. The captured CO2 is effectively stored in the final concrete (slowing being released back over time). 

Here is a story on one company working on this that explains in more detail. 

https://www.dezeen.com/2021/06/15/carbon-capturing-concrete-carbicrete/

Quote

 

To make cement, calcium carbonate (usually in the form of limestone) is heated to around 1,480 degrees Celsius to extract calcium oxide.

This process releases carbon dioxide, which accounts for 40 per cent of limestone's mass, into the atmosphere. The energy-intensive process is usually powered by fossil fuels, creating additional emissions.

Carbicrete's method circumvents these emissions, cutting out approximately two kilograms of CO2 for every concrete masonry unit.

As a substitute, the company uses a waste byproduct from the steel-making process called slag, which contains calcium oxide.

In traditional concrete production, cement is cured with water, causing the calcium to react with the CO2 in the surrounding air and turning it back into strengthened calcium carbonate.

The company is currently scaling up its processes to produce 25,000 CMUs per day

But in Carbicrete's system, the calcium oxide is instead injected with CO2 captured from industrial sites. This curing process creates calcium carbonate, which helps to fortify the concrete.

"It's effectively doing the same job as hydration in a regular concrete product," Stern explained. "The chemical composition of a concrete block that we make is exactly the same as a regular concrete block but we take a different road to get there."

This curing process takes 24 hours and stores away three kilograms of CO2 per CMU by converting them into a stable mineral, alongside an additional kilogram of CO2 that is pulled from the surrounding air during the curing process.

"The only way CO2 will escape one of our concrete blocks is if somebody burns the block," Sten said. "And nobody does that on purpose."

 

 

[troph 24810]

I’ll reiterate there is no money making here, but there can be saving money.  We installed a huge system and double batteries. We still save. I look at it as $150/month saved on our bill plus our cost of energy is now locked in at $350/month.  I can’t imagine energy costs dropping much at all and I can see it going much higher. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

5 hours ago, Viper said:

 so it seems like they're just using solar to get into the loan financing business.

 

 

[Dahobbs 17544]

1 hour ago, Doc Daneeka said:

I mean, I can try to dig up the quotes. I don’t use enough electricity to justify the necessary infrastructure to make the panels work. 

My average electricity bill is $98. Seven years of bills is $8232. How much is a system that pays for itself in seven years going to cost me?

Not trying to sell you at all, I just like looking at the math. Assuming you're paying something close to average in the state for your electricity (~15 cents per kwh), that would mean monthly usage of ~650 kwh. Yearly use would be 7,740 kwh. 

I have a 7.37 KW system in Houston installed 3 years ago + an additional 4.32 KW installed after that.

The 7.37 KW system cost $22,869.11 before tax credits. After tax credits + a ~2,000 rebate from my electric provider, it cost $14,116.33. IOver the last 12 months it has produced 8,443.79 kwh (just the original panels). At 15 cents per kwh, that is $1,266.57 per year. Assuming an average of 3% inflation, it'll pay for itself year 10. And that is assuming 0 equity added to the house by panels, which is really pessimistic. 

Given your usage, you would probably be looking a slightly smaller system. Your roof layout sounds superior to mine, but you're in Fort Worth, so it may be a bit of a wash. The ITC put the solar tax credit back at 30%, so you'd get that advantage. Prices dropped quite a bit after I built my system, but they may have risen back to where they were due to the supply chain issues. Some sources I see suggest Texas is currently a bit cheaper than my price at $2.76 per W (https://www.energysage.com/local-data/solar-panel-cost/tx/). For reference, I paid $3.10 per W. At that price you could build a 6.5 KW system for ~$18,000 before tax credits that would cover pretty much all of your usage, particularly if you have access to a net metering plan. Assuming inflation rate above, you'd be at breakeven between year 9 and 10, assuming no value added to the house and no provider rebate. 

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

30 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Not trying to sell you at all, I just like looking at the math. Assuming you're paying something close to average in the state for your electricity (~15 cents per kwh), that would mean monthly usage of ~650 kwh. Yearly use would be 7,740 kwh. 

I have a 7.37 KW system in Houston installed 3 years ago + an additional 4.32 KW installed after that.

The 7.37 KW system cost $22,869.11 before tax credits. After tax credits + a ~2,000 rebate from my electric provider, it cost $14,116.33. IOver the last 12 months it has produced 8,443.79 kwh (just the original panels). At 15 cents per kwh, that is $1,266.57 per year. Assuming an average of 3% inflation, it'll pay for itself year 10. And that is assuming 0 equity added to the house by panels, which is really pessimistic. 

Given your usage, you would probably be looking a slightly smaller system. Your roof layout sounds superior to mine, but you're in Fort Worth, so it may be a bit of a wash. The ITC put the solar tax credit back at 30%, so you'd get that advantage. Prices dropped quite a bit after I built my system, but they may have risen back to where they were due to the supply chain issues. Some sources I see suggest Texas is currently a bit cheaper than my price at $2.76 per W (https://www.energysage.com/local-data/solar-panel-cost/tx/). For reference, I paid $3.10 per W. At that price you could build a 6.5 KW system for ~$18,000 before tax credits that would cover pretty much all of your usage, particularly if you have access to a net metering plan. Assuming inflation rate above, you'd be at breakeven between year 9 and 10, assuming no value added to the house and no provider rebate. 

I don’t mind being sold, I’ve been looking for a way to make it work. 

I pay about 9¢ per kWh, depending on usage, but that’s only for two more years. 

[troph 24810]

Our system for the math experts. 
 

 

it is generating about 70 kWh per day on sunny days so that math is right. Backup is reduced by 10% in terms of usable power. So more like 24-25 kWh. I think they are 12 kWh usable each. 

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by troph

[Dahobbs 17544]

39 minutes ago, Doc Daneeka said:

I don’t mind being sold, I’ve been looking for a way to make it work. 

I pay about 9¢ per kWh, depending on usage, but that’s only for two more years. 

That's an extremely good rate if is your effective rate as opposed to the listed rate (which is pretty much never accurate). Average in Fort Worth is 14.7 cents. You'll be unlikely to be able to make solar make economic sense at that rate except with a very long term outlook absent a drastic drop in prices. 

Edited February 22, 2023 by Dahobbs

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

That's an extremely good rate if is your effective rate as opposed to the listed rate (which is pretty much never accurate). Average in Fort Worth is 14.7 cents. 

Like I said, it depends on my usage because there are fixed base and delivery charges no matter how little I use and that get diluted the more I use. It’s in the ballpark, but it’s a bit higher per kWh in, say, October and April when I’m not using much AC or much electricity to move heater air. It’s a bit lower in August when I use the most kWh. 

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

8 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

You'll be unlikely to be able to make solar make economic sense at that rate except with a very long term outlook absent a drastic drop in prices. 

And this is what I meant when all the solar guys go tap-tap-tap on their iPads, frown, look at my spreadsheet, tap-tap-tap some more and say they’ll get back to me. 

I only have about two years on this contract and I expect not to be able to duplicate it. The upside to getting old is that I will soon be able to draw from my IRAs. The tax credits, if they still exist, would allow me to draw down my traditional IRA essentially like a Roth, I think, which would be nice. 

Who has the best net metering/solar buyback in Texas?

[Dahobbs 17544]

48 minutes ago, Doc Daneeka said:

And this is what I meant when all the solar guys go tap-tap-tap on their iPads, frown, look at my spreadsheet, tap-tap-tap some more and say they’ll get back to me. 

I only have about two years on this contract and I expect not to be able to duplicate it. The upside to getting old is that I will soon be able to draw from my IRAs. The tax credits, if they still exist, would allow me to draw down my traditional IRA essentially like a Roth, I think, which would be nice. 

Who has the best net metering/solar buyback in Texas?

I have Green Mountain, which is true net metering (credit is 1-1, and rolls over month-month). 

Under the IRA, the tax credit is 30% until 2033 when it lowers to 26%. 

[HOOKEM4 5037]

5 hours ago, Amos Moses said:

Lol. Whole lotta feel good, back patting fart sniffing going on in here. Carry on all you carbon warriors.

1) Worthless threadshitting post

5 hours ago, Amos Moses said:

Sure. Wake me up when all your batteries, panels, and EVs are actually carbon neutral. I’ll still be here … or maybe I won’t.

2) completely missing the point post.

5 hours ago, Amos Moses said:

I appreciate the good faith response and I’m well aware of the timelines. I’ll make a motion to excuse you from the fart sniffers flock.

You didn't deserve that response and it was a waste for your simple brain. Go take a long walk on a short pier (with your arm floaties on so you don't drown). 

My only question is, did you finish after you posted that first post?  I bet you did you naughty boy.

[Quagmire 2147]

I wouldn’t mind having solar but do find it funny when people use the highest possible rates to justify their pay back . 15 cents ? U can easily find a plan for 10/11 these days

[Dahobbs 17544]

20 minutes ago, Quagmire said:

I wouldn’t mind having solar but do find it funny when people use the highest possible rates to justify their pay back . 15 cents ? U can easily find a plan for 10/11 these days

A little under 15 cents is average according to ERCOT. 

[Amos Moses 795]

You didn't deserve that response and it was a waste for your simple brain. Go take a long walk on a short pier (with your arm floaties on so you don't drown). 
My only question is, did you finish after you posted that first post?  I bet you did you naughty boy.

I guess this means you’re not going to sell your Airstream to me?

[UT_OB1 2223]

7 hours ago, troph said:

 Wildcards for us are ICF build and 9 ducted mini splits so we can target cooling or heating over night in select rooms instead of 2 large traditional HVAC systems that warm or cool unused spaces.

Do you have a wife or kids?  If so, how often do you go around turning off the lights in rooms people haven’t been in for 8 hours?  No imagine that with the mini splits. That is your wildcard 😃

eta -  I do love mini splits. But if I ever install them in my house they will all be controlled only on my phone 

Edited February 23, 2023 by UT_OB1

[Texas Jeff 1945]

On 7/19/2022 at 5:28 PM, troph said:

16kW system with 28kWh total battery storage with two tesla powerwalls.

Congrats on that system!  I think as prices come down more of us will be doing this.

Just curious (if you are willing to share), what is the ballpark total price of a system like that, including installation?  Or half of a system that size? I've been a GreenChoice subscriber for 20 years and liked the idea of pooling money to buy wind or build solar arrays, where they could be moved with the sun.  Then Austin Energy left me in the dark for a week.  Now I don't trust the grid because of 2021 and I don't trust AE because of 2023.

I'm don't need a system as big as yours, but I could get by on half of it.  That would allow me to limp along on battery/solar during a power outage.  Not power everything, but enough to heat or cool part of the house, keep the lights on, keep the fridge going, etc.

[troph 24810]

1 hour ago, UT_OB1 said:

Do you have a wife or kids?  If so, how often do you go around turning off the lights in rooms people haven’t been in for 8 hours?  No imagine that with the mini splits. That is your wildcard 😃

eta -  I do love mini splits. But if I ever install them in my house they will all be controlled only on my phone 

Well with two wives there’s a battle for who is the worst. We both have the “close the refrigerator, we aren’t cooling the whole house” dad rant in us tho.

 

[troph 24810]

57 minutes ago, Texas Jeff said:

Congrats on that system!  I think as prices come down more of us will be doing this.

Just curious (if you are willing to share), what is the ballpark total price of a system like that, including installation?  Or half of a system that size? I've been a GreenChoice subscriber for 20 years and liked the idea of pooling money to buy wind or build solar arrays, where they could be moved with the sun.  Then Austin Energy left me in the dark for a week.  Now I don't trust the grid because of 2021 and I don't trust AE because of 2023.

I'm don't need a system as big as yours, but I could get by on half of it.  That would allow me to limp along on battery/solar during a power outage.  Not power everything, but enough to heat or cool part of the house, keep the lights on, keep the fridge going, etc.

Thank you. It’s super fun to watch the app. The price for us is in the powerwalls they are not cheap. Those come in around $30-35k for 2 installed. We are only on day 3 of use but for a spring or fall day we do seem over powered. I’d be shocked if we don’t net out at zero or even negative on a calendar year basis. 

I think our exposure is extreme cold or ice and lots of cloud cover. Without sun, the batteries are probably 2-3 days of power with extreme conservation.  Unreal that this system still might not be enough for the ice storm this year or the winter blast a few years back.  For that we are just going to have to see what happens. 
 

Edited February 23, 2023 by troph

[DalTxHornFan 3102]

IDK, but these guys may sneak up on your power usage.

[troph 24810]

5 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

IDK, but these guys may sneak up on your power usage.

I actually have one of those.  

[DalTxHornFan 3102]

1 minute ago, troph said:

I actually have one of those.  

Good to know that you have planned for contingencies!

[Upgrayedd 5812]

3 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

A little under 15 cents is average according to ERCOT. 

$0.15? That’s cute.

[troph 24810]

7 hours ago, Upgrayedd said:

$0.15? That’s cute.

according to our bill, PEC currently sells for $0.10 (rounded up) and credits for $0.06 (starting March 1 rounded down). 

[Upgrayedd 5812]

7 minutes ago, troph said:

according to our bill, PEC currently sells for $0.10 (rounded up) and credits for $0.06 (starting March 1 rounded down). 

Sure as shit beats $0.41.  I had no issues getting solar to pencil.

[fattyflattie 4639]

16 hours ago, Doc Daneeka said:

I pay about 9¢ per kWh, depending on usage, but that’s only for two more years. 

Same. I’m at .09, and couldn’t make the math work.   Add in the fact I’d want to throw on a new roof first (11yo), and don’t see the advantage without a battery pack, and it gets further away.    
 

16 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

Assuming an average of 3% inflation, it'll pay for itself year 10.

Were coming up on almost 20% of your 10 year example at considerably higher inflation. I understand why you used the #, but it’s been a very cheery basis for the last 18 months. 
 

12 minutes ago, Upgrayedd said:

Sure as shit beats $0.41.

Holy shit.  Assuming the fantastic Wx brings yours consumption way down. But damn. 

[Dahobbs 17544]

11 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Were coming up on almost 20% of your 10 year example at considerably higher inflation. I understand why you used the #, but it’s been a very cheery basis for the last 18 months. 

I've tried and failed to understand what you're saying here. 20% of what? I can't tell if you're talking about the rate, inflation, or something else. Sorry, just being dense at the moment apparently. 

[troph 24810]

1 hour ago, Upgrayedd said:

Sure as shit beats $0.41.  I had no issues getting solar to pencil.

I'm expecting the co-ops and municipal utilities that insulate customers from the vultures to inch up over the coming years. I would fully expect PEC to be $0.12 and then even higher after that soon.  I did pick that number out of the sky - I know nothing about PEC's contracts - but the point is, no way power costs are going down from $0.10 and we are now baked in at our self-produced rates for 20+ years. PEC also has an enormous geographical foot print with sparesly populated areas which I would assume makes their infrastructure costs at times, quite a bit higher than other utilities in more densely populated areas.  but I'm just guessing.

Edited February 23, 2023 by troph

[fattyflattie 4639]

52 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I've tried and failed to understand what you're saying here. 20% of what? I can't tell if you're talking about the rate, inflation, or something else. Sorry, just being dense at the moment apparently. 

Your 10 year timeline at 3%.   The last ~18 months have been considerably higher, up to twice that.    So, nearly 20% of your example payback period (10 years) doesn’t track at all with 3%.  Would be akin to me mentioning do it on a HELOC at 2.375 because that’s what we did 18 months ago. Similar to 3% inflation, that’s not the # anymore. 

Edited February 23, 2023 by fattyflattie