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The Roger Stone Trial

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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hpslugga

hpslugga 4,096

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On 11/12/2019 at 3:27 PM, Mdhorn said:

You can't whip them in a debate with logic. 

Well for one, I use the term “whip” more objectively. Whether they were to acknowledge such a hypothetical asswhipping isn’t relevant: the asswhipping occurred regardless of what their little feelings tell them to believe. 

But that’s not even the point. The point is that they do not possess the skill, nor I (merely an average person) the vulnerability, to ever be even remotely driven to the point where I question my own sanity after engaging those idiots.

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sidis
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i do find it amusing that the dipshit brigade started to rear its head in the thread finally when the topic became about the personal biases of a juror after pages and pages of avoiding the topic of a

SydneyCarton
SydneyCarton

It matters to me. A lot. As other posters have correctly said, you make that motherfucker pardon him. Make him sign his name and be held accountable in the general and the annals of history, assuming

Chad Fuck
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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 18,096

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15 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, they've gotten ignore-horsefucked by #bothsides.  That was part of Trump's evil genius.  He spoke to them for once.  It's like talking to a fat chick, doesn't matter what you say to her, you're probably going to get some.

What no one realized is how well that fat-chick whispering worked with a bunch of the rest of the dumbshits.  

Especially when it was right in our faces.  

1920px-Adult_female_obesity_in_the_Unite

RGVBW7KAQVPADVZEEJKAOIDQIY.jpg

<<Insert Vic Mackey thread here>>

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bolverk

bolverk 30,247

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1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

This trial hasn’t gotten nearly the attention it deserves considering it involved the president of the United States back channeling and coordinating via the defendant with a Russian military intelligence conspiracy to undermine the 2016 election.  . 

No shit. If they Get Me Roger Stone on these charges, it pretty much validates everything that was discussed for two years in the "nothingburger" Mueller investigation threads on here and the other site. I guess we'll see whether it's true that absolutely nothing matters anymore.

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Bama Chick

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This trial hasn’t gotten nearly the attention it deserves considering it involved the president of the United States back channeling and coordinating via the defendant with a Russian military intelligence conspiracy to undermine the 2016 election.  . 


Well it happening at the same time as the opening of the public impeachment hearings probably has something to do with the lack of attention.
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Doc Sam Beckett

Doc Sam Beckett 5,854

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6 minutes ago, bolverk said:

No shit. If they Get Me Roger Stone on these charges, it pretty much validates everything that was discussed for two years in the "nothingburger" Mueller investigation threads on here and the other site. I guess we'll see whether it's true that absolutely nothing matters anymore.

Yep, nothing matters and fuck face  Mueller has a mega fuck ton to do with that. How many rube opinions would be different if Mueller dropped the hammer like he should have? Fuck that guy I hope he chokes on Barr's nuts

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Hugo Stiglitz

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5 minutes ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

Yep, nothing matters and fuck face  Mueller has a mega fuck ton to do with that. How many rube opinions would be different if Mueller dropped the hammer like he should have? Fuck that guy I hope he chokes on Barr's nuts

How do you think it would have played out differently if Mueller did exactly what you wanted? 

I’m not sure we’d be in a better situation if you really think about it.  The failure was on Congress in my opinion throughout the Russia investigation.  Trump should have been impeached and removed in May of 2017 just based on his public statements and actions. 

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Doc Sam Beckett

Doc Sam Beckett 5,854

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4 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

How do you think it would have played out differently if Mueller did exactly what you wanted? 

I’m not sure we’d be in a better situation if you really think about it.  The failure was on Congress in my opinion throughout the Russia investigation.  Trump should have been impeached and removed in May of 2017 just based on his public statements and actions. 

What the fuck are you talking about? Mueller played the absolute middle of the road bullshit and deferred to Barr. How much of the GOP nonsense is because he acted like a pussy? To this very second they are saying "well they tried to get him with Mueller and it failed, so now they are trying with Ukraine....eye roll" 

Congress fucking needed him to say what fucking happened and put an exclamation point on it. Do you get how many people were waiting for that shit? His report was a big wet fart, because he thinks he's living in the 50s when people could actually think instead of asking Fox News what to believe. They are doing the same shit now that they did when Mueller got overwhelmed with the prospect of having to stand up and do his fucking duty. Jordan and Nunes are able to scream and play games because dipshits like Mueller don't call a spade a spade. 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23,367

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13 minutes ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

What the fuck are you talking about? Mueller played the absolute middle of the road bullshit and deferred to Barr. How much of the GOP nonsense is because he acted like a pussy? To this very second they are saying "well they tried to get him with Mueller and it failed, so now they are trying with Ukraine....eye roll" 

Congress fucking needed him to say what fucking happened and put an exclamation point on it. Do you get how many people were waiting for that shit? His report was a big wet fart, because he thinks he's living in the 50s when people could actually think instead of asking Fox News what to believe. They are doing the same shit now that they did when Mueller got overwhelmed with the prospect of having to stand up and do his fucking duty. Jordan and Nunes are able to scream and play games because dipshits like Mueller don't call a spade a spade. 

The Mueller Report has Trump on multiple felonies that Mueller says he could prosecute once Trump leaves office.  

I mean, even if Mueller outright indicted Trump on obstruction of justice with overwhelming evidence, do you think the senate would convict? 

Mueller had a fucked up situation because he was also reporting on the Russian interference in the election.  If Mueller charged Trump the Republicans would likely try to discredit the whole report, including the Russian interference part.  

There are enough facts and evidence in the Mueller Report to put Trump away for years.  It’s wasn’t Mueller’s job to spin those facts. Congress dropped the ball much more than Mueller.

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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bolverk

bolverk 30,247

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Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

If Mueller charged Trump the Republicans would likely try to discredit the whole report, including the Russian interference part.

They already are, and I agree that Mueller should've been more forceful in his testimony rather than just repeatedly saying "refer to the report" that they willfully refused to read.

What's especially galling is that this all this Ukraine shit is just an extension of all that Russia shit. It's all one giant shit, and everyone should be screaming it from the rooftops.

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TwiceHorn

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Mueller is a prosecutor.  Prosecutors don't make claims about guilt or innocence, they indict and prove guilt if they can.

He never was going to "call a spade a spade."

One thing the Dems could have done was hire real lawyers like the ones they have now to take the Mueller Report and do what was needed to make an impeachment out of it.

Instead they left it to flapping cunts like Jerry Nadler and Schiff.  Yes, Schiff was a US attorney for six year.  That's not enough time to know anything.  He gives a nice speech.  He's useless as a lawyer.

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Hugo Stiglitz

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15 minutes ago, bolverk said:

They already are, and I agree that Mueller should've been more forceful in his testimony rather than just repeatedly saying "refer to the report" that they willfully refused to read.

What's especially galling is that this all this Ukraine shit is just an extension of all that Russia shit. It's all one giant shit, and everyone should be screaming it from the rooftops.

Barr fucked Mueller over more than anything.  If the Mueller Report just dropped without Barr running a three week long disinformation campaign with his memo, it would have been a bigger deal.

Barr sabotaged the Russia investigation and the Mueller Report.  

Barr was confirmed by the Senate by campaigning for the job on the platform of, “I know how to obstruct justice and get away with it!” 

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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Doc Sam Beckett

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21 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The Mueller Report has Trump on multiple felonies that Mueller says he could prosecute once Trump leaves office.  

I mean, even if Mueller outright indicted Trump on obstruction of justice with overwhelming evidence, do you think the senate would convict? 

Mueller had a fucked up situation because he was also reporting on the Russian interference in the election.  If Mueller charged Trump the Republicans would likely try to discredit the whole report, including the Russian interference part.  

There are enough facts and evidence in the Mueller Report to put Trump away for years.  It’s wasn’t Mueller’s job to spin those facts. Congress dropped the ball much more than Mueller.

Bullshit. All Mueller needed to do was say YES Donald committed a shit ton of crimes and should be indicted for xyz.....instead he bitched out and said "read the report" 

When he did that, it was all the GOP needed to run with it. If he dropped the hammer and said matter of factly that Donald should be charged with crimes it would have been it. The senate absolutely would have convicted because the fallout of Mueller saying that would have been massive.

Instead we are here debating absolute bullshit like "Mueller is a prosecutor and can't make claims about guilt or innocence, they indict and prove guilt if they can." It's insane, he should have "indicted" then. Donald bullied Ukraine days after the Mueller testified, because that was the most empowering thing that has happened in Donald's presidency. 

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Doc Sam Beckett

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17 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Barr fucked Mueller over more than anything.  If the Mueller Report just dropped without Barr running a three week long disinformation campaign with his memo, it would have been a bigger deal.

Barr sabotaged the Russia investigation and the Mueller Report.  

Barr was confirmed by the Senate who was basically campaigning for the job on the platform of, “I know how to obstruct justice and get away with it!” 

Yeah exactly. Mueller knew what Barr was doing was a travesty and his response was to defer to that piece of shit. Ah well, chain of duty and all....Barr, would you like to pleasure my wife or can I tonight? 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 32,001

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8 minutes ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

Bullshit. All Mueller needed to do was say YES Donald committed a shit ton of crimes and should be indicted for xyz.....instead he bitched out and said "read the report" 

When he did that, it was all the GOP needed to run with it. If he dropped the hammer and said matter of factly that Donald should be charged with crimes it would have been it. The senate absolutely would have convicted because the fallout of Mueller saying that would have been massive.

Instead we are here debating absolute bullshit like "Mueller is a prosecutor and can't make claims about guilt or innocence, they indict and prove guilt if they can." It's insane, he should have "indicted" then. Donald bullied Ukraine days after the Mueller testified, because that was the most empowering thing that has happened in Donald's presidency. 

You haven't been paying attention.

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suddenly shaggy

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13 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Barr fucked Mueller over more than anything.  If the Mueller Report just dropped without Barr running a three week long disinformation campaign with his memo, it would have been a bigger deal.

Barr sabotaged the Russia investigation and the Mueller Report.  

Barr was confirmed by the Senate by campaigning for the job on the platform of, “I know how to obstruct justice and get away with it!” 

He also had a track record of obstructing justice and getting away with it in prior administrations.

https://www.justsecurity.org/63635/barrs-playbook-he-misled-congress-when-omitting-parts-of-justice-dept-memo-in-1989/

 

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Hugo Stiglitz

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Mueller is an easy scapegoat and I wish he would have been more declarative but putting all the blame on him is giving way too many other people responsible a pass...which I think is kind of the point.  Congress is the instrument that failed when they chose not to act after being presented overwhelming evidence of Trump’s national security crimes from a nonpartisan investigation.

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TwiceHorn

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It is interesting to compare Starr's conclusions in his report to those of Mueller.  Mueller's remit was much, much broader and the crimes he confronted more complex.  There was also more judicial testimony under oath to rely on.

I was expecting more Starr-like conclusions, e.g.  There is substantial and credible information that President Clinton lied under oath to the grand jury about his sexual relationship with Monica Lewinsky.

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13,712

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According to reliable source, Alex Jones, Stone is asking for a pardon: https://www.newsweek.com/roger-stone-reportedly-pleads-trump-through-alex-jones-jury-deliberates-his-fate-please-pardon-1471905

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"And he said to me, 'Alex, barring a miracle, I appeal to God and I appeal to your listeners for prayer, and I appeal to the president to pardon me because to do so would be an action that would show these corrupt courts that they're not going to get away with persecuting people for their free speech or for the crime of getting the president elected,'" Jones continued, adding that Stone asserted, "If we don't do that, it will embolden their criminal activity."

While I fully expect trump to ultimately pardon people like Stone, it seems doubtful trump will do so in the middle of an impeachment hearing or trial. 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23,367

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Just now, TwiceHorn said:

I haven't specifically looked, but I think all counts are five years max.  It is conceivable, but unlikely, that the judge "stacks" some or all of the counts to run consecutively instead of concurrently.

The most likely outcome is something less than five years.

I was thinking more than one year but less than five.  I base this on how Manafort and Cohen went down.

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