Not easy being a man in this country

[Fozzz 152]

Quote

American men are dying younger and younger.

Their life expectancy has dropped for the third straight year, according to a new report from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The newly released data shows that in 2017, the average male lifespan dropped to 76.1 years, down from 76.2 in 2016 and 76.5 just in 2014.

The lifespan for women, meanwhile, held steady at 81.1 years — the exact same as it was in 2016 and 2015.

There’s no one reason life expectancy for men is falling, but part of the decline is due to so-called deaths of despair, such as drug overdoses. From 2007 to 2017, the death rate from drug overdoses nearly doubled, from 11.9 to 21.7 deaths per 100,000. The data showed that men die by overdose at about twice the rate women do, and that it is especially a problem for young men. Among men between 25 and 34, the death rate for drug overdoses was 54.3 per 100,000, the highest figure for any age group.

Americans are dying younger even as the U.S. spends more on health care than any other country. That’s partially because outcomes for the rich and the poor are vastly different, CBS reported: wealthy Americans are far more likely to make it into their 70s and 80s.

Overall, American men can still expect to live a bit longer than the average man worldwide. The average man across the world lives to be 69.8, while the average woman lives to 74.2, according to the World Health Organization.

While deaths from overdoses and suicide are up, there were some hopeful notes in the CDC report. Death rates from heart disease and cancer — the two most common causes of death — have dropped by about 15 percent over the last decade.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/vb5nw4/the-latest-stats-on-mens-lifespan-are-alarming

Link to the full report: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/hus18.pdf

Why are men in this country killing themselves off?  Isn't the economy supposed to be great?  A third year of decreased life expectancy and a doubling of the rate of "deaths of despair" across the past decade seem like big news, but this topic doesn't seem to get much traction. 

[David Dennison 19,538]

It's even harder being white.

[DixonHur 11,959]

[Pescado_Rojo 19,587]

8 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/vb5nw4/the-latest-stats-on-mens-lifespan-are-alarming

Link to the full report: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/hus18.pdf

Why are men in this country killing themselves off?  Isn't the economy supposed to be great?  A third year of decreased life expectancy and a doubling of the rate of "deaths of despair" across the past decade seem like big news, but this topic doesn't seem to get much traction. 

Have you checked out the "wives and the stupid shit they do" thread? I'm not saying it's right, but I understand. 

[Celery Man 21,098]

Men suffer from addiction at a higher rate than women. Albeit based on flawed statistics. But characterizing addiction related deaths as deaths of despair I think both accurately describes them and misunderstands them.

[Aqua Buddha 14,806]

Despair and disappointment are caused by the difference between expectations and reality.  White men have been used to having everything easy for centuries and that's changing now.  That's why the suicide rate for middle aged white men in particular is going up while every other group is flat to down.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

17 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/vb5nw4/the-latest-stats-on-mens-lifespan-are-alarming

Link to the full report: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/hus18.pdf

Why are men in this country killing themselves off?  Isn't the economy supposed to be great?  A third year of decreased life expectancy and a doubling of the rate of "deaths of despair" across the past decade seem like big news, but this topic doesn't seem to get much traction. 

Meth and opioids, the 21st. Century crack epidemic of the white man.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Onboard 2.0

[tantric superman 4,668]

Pork chops taste good.  Bacon tastes good.

[David Dennison 19,538]

3 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Despair and disappointment are caused by the difference between expectations and reality.  White men have been used to having everything easy for centuries and that's changing now.  That's why the suicide rate for middle aged white men in particular is going up while every other group is flat to down.

It might also have something to do with the daily humiliation of selling your labor.

[Dnaguy 12,628]

An indication of the decline of an empire.

[workswithseed 2,204]

5 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Despair and disappointment are caused by the difference between expectations and reality.  White men have been used to having everything easy for centuries and that's changing now.  That's why the suicide rate for middle aged white men in particular is going up while every other group is flat to down.

A friend's husband killed himself just a week ago cause he felt alone since he didn't know his battle buddies. We just like killing ourselves.

[tantric superman 4,668]

What is a battle buddy? 

And why/how didn't he know them?

[TwiceHorn 32,078]

For suicide/depression and addiction-related deaths, you are making a mistake to conflate external circumstances with the diseases in question in most instances.

As logical as it may seem, those diseases do not follow logic.

I am of the developing opinion that there is something about modern life that is more conducive to mental illness.  Because there is a strong genetic correlation, I think something is altering the genes.  Chemtrails or some shit.

Edited November 5, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Irwin F Fletcher 3,555]

My story

 

 

[bolverk 30,323]

It's probably more useful to look at these data on a state-by-case basis, because it certainly isn't uniform. I think a general comparison of the continental US versus Europe starts to provide us clues into living standards and where "deaths of despair" might be most prevalent (it also gives us a bit of insight into the political leanings of these places).

These color schemes don't exactly match, but just look at the overall patterns.

There's something deeply wrong going on in both Eastern Europe and our own Deep South/Appalachia. Decline of Iron Curtain (loss of everything that went with that) versus the decline of ??? in those areas of the US. In our case, it can't all be related to the loss of manufacturing, because there are former manufacturing powerhouse states doing much better than the emerging ones.

I don't think this is really a blame-the-victim thing, but there's something very wrong going on. A couple of years ago, the book "Hillbilly Elegy: A Memoir of a Family and Culture in Crisis" came out and made a pretty big splash trying to explain the appeal of Trump to those in desperation. I've read several excerpts and a few reviews, and it looks like it provides some good explanatory insight.

[bolverk 30,323]

6 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

For suicide/depression and addiction-related deaths, you are making a mistake to conflate external circumstances with the diseases in question in most instances.

As logical as it may seem, those diseases do not follow logic.

I am of the developing opinion that there is something about modern life that is more conducive to mental illness.  Because there is a strong genetic correlation, I think something is altering the genes.  Chemtrails or some shit.

Don't fully disagree or agree, but there's a strong geographic correlation to drug overdoses and early deaths tied to drinking.

[workswithseed 2,204]

8 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

What is a battle buddy? 

And why/how didn't he know them?

Military term for a person you go into battle with. Cause he went from Alaska over to a different base across the pond. 

[tantric superman 4,668]

4 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I don't think this is really a blame-the-victim thing, but there's something very wrong going on. A couple of years ago, the book "Hillbilly Elegy: A Memoir of a Family and Culture in Crisis" came out and made a pretty big splash trying to explain the appeal of Trump to those in desperation. I've read several excerpts and a few reviews, and it looks like it provides some good explanatory insight.

I thought of reading this but then I thought if I ever understood the appeal of Trump I'd kill myself.

[Dnaguy 12,628]

4 minutes ago, bolverk said:

 

 

Is Florida the only state where the average age AND the life expectancy are the exact same number?

[gmr548 16,698]

For suicide/depression and addiction-related deaths, you are making a mistake to conflate external circumstances with the diseases in question in most instances.
As logical as it may seem, those diseases do not follow logic.
I am of the developing opinion that there is something about modern life that is more conducive to mental illness.  Because there is a strong genetic correlation, I think something is altering the genes.  Chemtrails or some shit.

It isn't genetic, but lack of exercise, diets filled with processed food, increasing screen time, decreasing human connection, more time inside, less sleep, long commutes and sprawling/drive everywhere built environments, lack of job opportunities that pay a living wage and lack of work/life balance for the ones that do all have been shown to have a negative impact on both mental and physical health. All modern phenomenons.

America has created a society tailor made for bad health outcomes.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Jester 382]

18 minutes ago, bolverk said:

It's probably more useful to look at these data on a state-by-case basis, because it certainly isn't uniform. I think a general comparison of the continental US versus Europe starts to provide us clues into living standards and where "deaths of despair" might be most prevalent (it also gives us a bit of insight into the political leanings of these places).

These color schemes don't exactly match, but just look at the overall patterns.

There's something deeply wrong going on in both Eastern Europe and our own Deep South/Appalachia. Decline of Iron Curtain (loss of everything that went with that) versus the decline of ??? in those areas of the US. In our case, it can't all be related to the loss of manufacturing, because there are former manufacturing powerhouse states doing much better than the emerging ones.

I don't think this is really a blame-the-victim thing, but there's something very wrong going on. A couple of years ago, the book "Hillbilly Elegy: A Memoir of a Family and Culture in Crisis" came out and made a pretty big splash trying to explain the appeal of Trump to those in desperation. I've read several excerpts and a few reviews, and it looks like it provides some good explanatory insight.

Poor vs. Rich brah.

[Dnaguy 12,628]

1 minute ago, Jester said:

Poor vs. Rich brah.

Note to self:

Don’t be poor.

Got it.

[workswithseed 2,204]

4 minutes ago, Jester said:

Poor vs. Rich brah.

New Mexico is kinda of an out lier 

[Bama Chick 28,596]

Fuck em.

[workswithseed 2,204]

2 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Fuck em.

That would make a lot of men happy.

Edited November 5, 2019 by workswithseed

[Nivek 17,409]

46 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Despair and disappointment are caused by the difference between expectations and reality.  White men have been used to having everything easy for centuries and that's changing now.  That's why the suicide rate for middle aged white men in particular is going up while every other group is flat to down.

The erosion of the middle class, decrease in job stability, and perpetual wars are more likely sources than some fictitious "He is white and so he thinks he is entitled to everything" strawman argument I see dipshits post on here.  

[Nivek 17,409]

8 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Fuck em.

<raises hand>

[bolverk 30,323]

No doubt poverty plays a very strong role, but I'd argue there's a reason why poverty in those areas is so prevalent. New Mexico and Puerto Rico are interesting outliers for life expectancy and, again, make me wonder if there's a cultural component involved. Both are among the poorest places, but their life expectancies are much higher than you'd think they ought to.

Having no data to back it up, I'd venture a guess that not meeting the previous societal promise of being successful if you were a white male -- even if you don't posses the skills and education required to climb the ladder -- is one of the causes of this crisis. That disappointment leads to embarrassment and isolation from community/family begets depression, despondency, and despair, which leads substance abuse, overdoses, and suicides.

[Jiggy-Z 3,509]

4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

For suicide/depression and addiction-related deaths, you are making a mistake to conflate external circumstances with the diseases in question in most instances.

As logical as it may seem, those diseases do not follow logic.

I am of the developing opinion that there is something about modern life that is more conducive to mental illness.

So long as we are in the politics thread with this, my unscientific observations:

There are newer threats that are vectoring through the population as a whole.  New drugs, new stress, desk jobs, cell phones, HFCS, among others. Some of these are offset by improved health conditions, and in the case of women, offset entirely, possibly due to their more regular medical check ups.  I would bet some of these threats are slipping through to the male population or females have been slower to adapt worse behavior or some are so new that they have not been documented reliably such that they could been observed in females as a whole.

As far as desperation goes, one contributing factor could be the access to information.  Not that this would necessarily show up differently in males and females.  Consider the glimpses we get of others lives through social media.  In most cases its the best staged presentation of that persons life or pursuit.  Where once we could work on something and get pretty good at it and be happy with our place relative to others on a local level and not know anything about it beyond our own experiences save for perhaps a few legendary types that gained national attention, now we have access to the seemingly endless number of participants who, if we look for them, will demonstrate to us our own perceived inadequacy.  Logic is throw out the window as all we see is the superior end result which seemingly happens instantly without consideration for years of work, clever editing, or regard for starting circumstances. Hence we end up with a distorted view of our own self worth.

I call this the fishing show phenomenon.

This summer I was hunting around Youtube for some diet and exercise tweaks and came across this Dutch guy -Wim Hoff.  The gist of his spiel was that modern western culture has deprived us certain threats and rewards such that our natural "feel goods" have become dormant.  His solution was a combination of deep breathing/breath holding exercises(really more like hyperventilation) and cold water or ice immersion-not at the same time.  I dabbled in it for a few days this last summer and it felt pretty awesome.  I would do the deep breathing first on a given day, then take a walk in heat of the afternoon followed by a cold shower.  The shower was invigorating but the breathing was incredible.  I went from only being able to hold my breath for about 1:15 minutes on the first day to over 4:30 minutes by the 4th day.  The notion with this stuff was to "wake up" the mind and body and restore it back towards a more natural state though "healthy" stress.  It worked for me as far as I took it. Just thought I would share, seemed relevant somehow.

 

 

 

[Bateshorn 9,991]

I don't know about you gents, but I find it to be incredibly easy to be a man in this country. Dice still seem to be heavily loaded in my favor.

[TwiceHorn 32,078]

38 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

It isn't genetic, but lack of exercise, diets filled with processed food, increasing screen time, decreasing human connection, more time inside, less sleep, long commutes and sprawling/drive everywhere built environments, lack of job opportunities that pay a living wage and lack of work/life balance for the ones that do all have been shown to have a negative impact on both mental and physical health. All modern phenomenons.

America has created a society tailor made for bad health outcomes.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 

I don't disagree.  But my post was limited to deaths caused by depression leading to suicide and addiction-related deaths.  There are definitely some environmental contributors, but I think at some point we are going to discover that some aspect(s) of modern life actually alter biochemical processes (brain chemistry) in a way previously only attributed to genetics or congenital conditions.  Or that the congenital conditions are more prevalent for some reason.

It's not just deaths among the poor and despairing.  You see it in young people, you see it in mass shooters.  Deteriorating mental health is everywhere.

Edited November 5, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[tantric superman 4,668]

 

[SmokeyTheBear 5,569]

[Chad Fuck 18,134]

 

[Aqua Buddha 14,806]

31 minutes ago, Nivek said:

The erosion of the middle class, decrease in job stability, and perpetual wars are more likely sources than some fictitious "He is white and so he thinks he is entitled to everything" strawman argument I see dipshits post on here.  

Then why do whites show a large suicide increase?

[F250 29,200]

26 minutes ago, Jiggy-Z said:

 

This summer I was hunting around Youtube for some diet and exercise tweaks and came across this Dutch guy -Wim Hoff.  The gist of his spiel was that modern western culture has deprived us certain threats and rewards such that our natural "feel goods" have become dormant.  His solution was a combination of deep breathing/breath holding exercises(really more like hyperventilation) and cold water or ice immersion-not at the same time.  I dabbled in it for a few days this last summer and it felt pretty awesome.  I would do the deep breathing first on a given day, then take a walk in heat of the afternoon followed by a cold shower.  The shower was invigorating but the breathing was incredible.  I went from only being able to hold my breath for about 1:15 minutes on the first day to over 4:30 minutes by the 4th day.  The notion with this stuff was to "wake up" the mind and body and restore it back towards a more natural state though "healthy" stress.  It worked for me as far as I took it. Just thought I would share, seemed relevant somehow.

[Doc Reeves 6,434]

My mom worked with the DOD on the suicide issue that has faced the military for the past 12 or so years and there are lots of causes for people to attempt, but reality of why it is increasing is well known and it’s that no one gives a shit.

It has been shown time and time again thru longitudinal studies that Americans do not feel sorry for others if there is any indication that the victim got themselves into the mess themselves, somehow.
 

It’s why people blame the victim in rape cases, why people don’t have sympathy for prisoners (even when they are innocent), why people don’t want to pay for national healthcare and overwhelming why people don’t care when stranger countrymen kill themselves. 
 

The cold reality is that the actual structure of our society is causing severe drug abuse and suicide and has been for 40+ years. 
 

don’t ask why it’s happening, ask why we are letting it get worse.

[yoladu 4,191]

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13,434]

13 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Then why do whites show a large suicide increase?

High expectations does not equal entitlement. Putting forth effort and expecting to do well is not the same as expecting something to be handed to you.

[gmr548 16,698]

I don't disagree.  But my post was limited to deaths caused by depression leading to suicide and addiction-related deaths.  There are definitely some environmental contributors, but I think at some point we are going to discover that some aspect(s) of modern life actually alter biochemical processes (brain chemistry) in a way previously only attributed to genetics or congenital conditions.  Or that the congenital conditions are more prevalent for some reason.

It's not just deaths among the poor and despairing.  You see it in young people, you see it in mass shooters.  Deteriorating mental health is everywhere.

 

I mean, that's pure speculation so I can't really say anything to that, hah. It's possible I guess. Actually, I'm no expert on the brain so I have no idea if it is.

 

I do know that now factors like not enough exposure to sun/nature, not enough exercise, poor diet, etc. that are just day to day things in modern life (for some anyway) are linked to depression. Chronic stress is also known to have impacts on mental health. I'm not sure if clinical depression is the kind of altering of the mind you're referring to, though.

 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

 

 

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

In addition, access to health care is an obstacle. Even though men are not necessarily inclined to be regular with health maintenance, even those that are have difficulty finding providers. The stats for Mississippi that rank them so low (education, financial opportunity, etc?) also includes health and they rank #50 for both health care quality and health care access. Contrast that with Alaska which is ranked #2 in health care quality but #49 for access.

I am not looking forward to the GOP plan(?) to repeal the ACA or whatever modification it is they want to put in place. Things are bad but they are going to get a lot lot worse.

 

Edit- I should have explained that I selected Alaska because it does make a least some sense that access is an issue there. Extremely large expansive wilderness state with remote populations.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Mrs Whiggins
Clarification

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

1 hour ago, Bateshorn said:

I don't know about you gents, but I find it to be incredibly easy to be a man in this country. Dice still seem to be heavily loaded in my favor.

Sure for the white male who has the wherewithal, and can maneuver thru life successfully. The deck is still heavily stacked in our favor.

[qwertyu1234 497]

I like being a man and strongly recommend it. 

[Pato del Muerto 53,490]

As far as the drop in life expectancy, the veteran suicide rate has to start having an affect. All the TBIs and PTSD over the past 30 years are taking vets in their 30s and 40s via suicide, and that demo is presumably heavily slanted male. 

[DDD Dad 14,648]

2 hours ago, gmr548 said:

It isn't genetic, but lack of exercise, diets filled with processed food, increasing screen time, decreasing human connection, more time inside, less sleep, long commutes and sprawling/drive everywhere built environments, lack of job opportunities that pay a living wage and lack of work/life balance for the ones that do all have been shown to have a negative impact on both mental and physical health. All modern phenomenons.

America has created a society tailor made for bad health outcomes.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 

Este.

And our current healthcare system is a significant factor in this equation.  In that regard we've got everything backwards, pouring money and resources into bad outcomes (end of life, expensive treatments) and pharmaceuticals rather than preventative medicine and a safety net for those most vulnerable.  

[Pato del Muerto 53,490]

5 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Este.

And our current healthcare system is a significant factor in this equation.  In that regard we've got everything backwards, pouring money and resources into bad outcomes (end of life, expensive treatments) and pharmaceuticals rather than preventative medicine and a safety net for those most vulnerable.  

I read you loud and clear. Obamacare = death panels

[DDD Dad 14,648]

1 minute ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I read you loud and clear. Obamacare = death panels

[TwiceHorn 32,078]

1 hour ago, gmr548 said:

 

I mean, that's pure speculation so I can't really say anything to that, hah. It's possible I guess. Actually, I'm no expert on the brain so I have no idea if it is.

 

I do know that now factors like not enough exposure to sun/nature, not enough exercise, poor diet, etc. that are just day to day things in modern life (for some anyway) are linked to depression. Chronic stress is also known to have impacts on mental health. I'm not sure if clinical depression is the kind of altering of the mind you're referring to, though.

 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

 

 

I never said it wasn't speculation.  We don't even understand the origins of profound (clinical) depression or addiction, but the brains of sufferers behave differently than people who don't suffer.  But observational evidence seems to be that mental health issues are more prevalent than ever.  Something is going on there.

I also think that more minor (non-lethal) mental health issues affect many social ills, such as poverty, at an increasing rate.

People aren't profoundly depressed because their life sucks, quite the contrary, usually.  Same with addicts.  More often, their life sucks because they're profoundly depressed or addicted to something, where it was fine before.

My point was that connecting dots linearly between sucky lives and death by suicide, overdose, or other addiction-related causes is facile.

Edited November 5, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Telegraph_it 3,379]

I postulate it is the decline in marriage rates. Somehow, even though it seems completely counterintuitive, men that are married live longer than single men. Also, money is a barrier to entry for marriage, and those that stay married have more money than those who do not. And we are back to the poor vs. rich comparison. 

[tantric superman 4,668]

2 hours ago, workswithseed said:

New Mexico is kinda of an out lier