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School shooting in California

Pancho

By Pancho
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YChang

YChang 3463

Posted
Posted
Just now, Pato del Muerto said:

Does California have gun restrictions for itself?  Seems like making high cap mags and bump stocks and such illegal would be the kinds of things already enacted in CA. 

The prior shooting in CA (Gilroy?)... gun was bought legally in Nevada. 

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clapclapclap

clapclapclap 9000

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

It's also very very important not to mention the killer's name and parade a boring series of profiles of the victims. Sad faces and consoling voices from all news anchors as a nation tries to heal. RomaVicta vomits.

Twitter has an unconfirmed name:  Oscar Pistorius  

Rumors that the medal detectors were out of service today.

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Helobious

Helobious 9477

Posted
Posted (edited)

These things tend to happen in bunches, and we were just in a lull for a few months. Reminds me of end of 2017/early 2018. Two kids killed in each of the shootings in New Mexico & then Kentucky. That’s what preceded the big shootings in Florida & Texas later that school year.  
 

Authorities also saying that today was the suspect’s 16th birthday.

Edited by Helobious
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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

You say this every time, and you're wrong every time, and it's pointed out to you every time, and you keep saying it.

Just be honest and say your right to own guns is more important than other people's kids.  Just own it.

Um, it's in the NPR article.  Stats are right there.  The odds of being shot and killed in school are about 1/3 of what they were 25-30 years ago.  That's a good thing.  Data should not make you mad.

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pyrohornIII

pyrohornIII 4824

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Cody2422 said:

See bolded part above.  No one wants to have a conversation.  You seemed to somewhat agree with what I was saying, but then promptly resorted to “but the republicans don’t want to do what we want”. No fuck that.  I can play that game too.  “But when you have one party who immediately says let’s confiscate all guns from law abiding citizens.  And lets solve the immigration issue by not having a border!”  Republicans suck. Democrats suck.  
 

term limits is a good start to solve most of our problems 

This seems to be the pervasive mindset of the right when it comes to these two issues.  Having watched debates and read many articles on both these topics (from sources other than Fox, Breitbart, etc), I don't get that those two approaches are planks in any Democratic platform.    I'm not arguing.  However, I would really be interested in your citations or sources for those two allegations. 

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Bigpoppapump

Bigpoppapump 532

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Um, it's in the NPR article.  Stats are right there.  The odds of being shot and killed in school are about 1/3 of what they were 25-30 years ago.  That's a good thing.  Data should not make you mad.

I don't know the solution, but it does help my understanding at least having statistics that are backed with context like that NPR article, good find.

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Foosters said:

The odds of dying in WWII were lower than in WW1.  

Not sure what people were complaining about in Bastogne.

No shootings are good.  But 99% of the population thinks schools are far more dangerous now than they were 25-30 years ago due to media reporting changing and social media.  It isn't so.  And that's a good thing.

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Cody2422

Cody2422 279

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, pyrohornIII said:

This seems to be the pervasive mindset of the right when it comes to these two issues.  Having watched debates and read many articles on both these topics (from sources other than Fox, Breitbart, etc), I don't get that those two approaches are planks in any Democratic platform.    I'm not arguing.  However, I would really be interested in your citations or sources for those two allegations. 

See Beto For one recent example. I’m not trying to argue either, one way or another.  My point is that neither party is acting in good faith to the people they serve.  I’d venture to guess that most all of America would be love to solve this problem.  But our politicians get into office and serve for 25-30 years, become beholden to their lobbyists and begin serving their own interests.  It’s been mentioned up thread, we haven’t had a shooting recently and no one was talking about it.  You think they were diligently working on coming up with a solution on capital hill?  Doubtful.  But now, you’ll see the usual players flock to the media to get their air time, self serving, and tug on everyone’s heart strings.  The usual republicans will begin talking about the slippery slope, misuse of red flag laws, better outlaw cars, etc.  Never let a good conflict go to waste.  Republicans do it every time there is a terrorist attack.  Better hurry up and strip some more civil liberties from everyone.  By the way, what happened to the children at the border who were being locked in cages?  What happened to the squad?  Our ADD population moved on and so did the media and politicians.  It’ll be the same fucking story this time.  

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 30039

Posted
Posted
41 minutes ago, clapclapclap said:

Twitter has an unconfirmed name:  Oscar Pistorius  

Rumors that the medal detectors were out of service today.

Pistorius? A Roman? Did he use a gladius?

I'm not being serious enough. This is a horrible event. Just another American day filled with horror.

 

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NotActuallyALonghorn

NotActuallyALonghorn 4979

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, Cody2422 said:

See Beto For one recent example. I’m not trying to argue either, one way or another.  My point is that neither party is acting in good faith to the people they serve.  I’d venture to guess that most all of America would be love to solve this problem.  But our politicians get into office and serve for 25-30 years, become beholden to their lobbyists and begin serving their own interests.  It’s been mentioned up thread, we haven’t had a shooting recently and no one was talking about it.  You think they were diligently working on coming up with a solution on capital hill?  Doubtful.  But now, you’ll see the usual players flock to the media to get their air time, self serving, and tug on everyone’s heart strings.  The usual republicans will begin talking about the slippery slope, misuse of red flag laws, better outlaw cars, etc.  Never let a good conflict go to waste.  Republicans do it every time there is a terrorist attack.  Better hurry up and strip some more civil liberties from everyone.  By the way, what happened to the children at the border who were being locked in cages?  What happened to the squad?  Our ADD population moved on and so did the media and politicians.  It’ll be the same fucking story this time.  

What criteria do we use to evaluate outlaws' cars? What exactly makes one a better outlaw car?

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BigHorn'13

BigHorn'13 3387

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, crash_davis said:

I have 2 shotguns and a ruger .22 rifle. i would turn them over in a second if it meant meaningful gun control which could help prevent just one mass school shooting.

No offense but go right on ahead. I just don't trust the general population anymore enough to blindly disarm myself. Nothing suggested has made me think that guns that aren't supposed to be on the street will not be. 

We only have ourselves to blame and everyone is in a pissing match to reassign liability. 

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TexArcher

TexArcher 38119

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Johnny Sack said:

Um, it's in the NPR article.  Stats are right there.  The odds of being shot and killed in school are about 1/3 of what they were 25-30 years ago.  That's a good thing.  Data should not make you mad.

Data doesn't make me mad.  Dead kids make me mad.

Your argument is basically: school shootings are happening about as often as they always have, and there are more kids now, so per capita it's actually better.

The first problem with that argument is that this shit doesn't happen anywhere else with anything close to this much regularity.  The second is that one dead kid is too many.  The third is that it would be really easy to make our school shooting numbers look like the rest of the world's, but y'all don't wanna give up your big dick toys.

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Capn81

Capn81 373

Posted
Posted
Data doesn't make me mad.  Dead kids make me mad.
Your argument is basically: school shootings are happening about as often as they always have, and there are more kids now, so per capita it's actually better.
The first problem with that argument is that this shit doesn't happen anywhere else with anything close to this much regularity.  The second is that one dead kid is too many.  The third is that it would be really easy to make our school shooting numbers look like the rest of the world's, but y'all don't wanna give up your big dick toys.


So, for the sake of this conversation. What is your realistic call to end gun violence in schools?
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pyrohornIII

pyrohornIII 4824

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Cody2422 said:

See Beto For one recent example. I’m not trying to argue either, one way or another.  My point is that neither party is acting in good faith to the people they serve.  I’d venture to guess that most all of America would be love to solve this problem.  But our politicians get into office and serve for 25-30 years, become beholden to their lobbyists and begin serving their own interests.  It’s been mentioned up thread, we haven’t had a shooting recently and no one was talking about it.  You think they were diligently working on coming up with a solution on capital hill?  Doubtful.  But now, you’ll see the usual players flock to the media to get their air time, self serving, and tug on everyone’s heart strings.  The usual republicans will begin talking about the slippery slope, misuse of red flag laws, better outlaw cars, etc.  Never let a good conflict go to waste.  Republicans do it every time there is a terrorist attack.  Better hurry up and strip some more civil liberties from everyone.  By the way, what happened to the children at the border who were being locked in cages?  What happened to the squad?  Our ADD population moved on and so did the media and politicians.  It’ll be the same fucking story this time.  

If I remember right, Beto only pushed for the buyback of assault rifles, which are quite distant from a shotgun or a snake pistol.   I don't ever remember him stating taking back ALL guns.  But yet, here we are, where that has been the talking point spread by the Rs.  It's pretty hard to have any type of constructive conversation when words are put in peoples' mouths.   Intentionally.  Over and over.  You are right, it is rinse and repeat, but Beto did not advocate outlawing ALL guns.  Nor for an open border.  Once the Rs stop using scare tactics to deflect from their not doing anything, then maybe we can proceed. 

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staboner

staboner 4988

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Cody2422 said:

It’s fucking horrific, but my guns still haven’t killed anyone.  I’m sure everyone advocating for gun control laws on here habe voluntarily turned in all of their guns, if you owned any in the first place.  Rogan and Crenshaw has an interesting discussion on this, it’s so complicated that any one reaction is probably going to be an over reaction and not solve the problem.  I don’t know the answer.  I have one kid in 1st grade and a toddler.  It fucking turns my stomach to even think of this happening in our community, but I don’t know the answer and I’m not going to shout from the rooftop that “this one thing”, whatever it may be, is going to solve the problem.  Truthfully, until our politicians start acting like fucking human beings and not deciding policies on sound bytes nothing will be solved.  

read your last sentence...then read your first sentence. prob also your second sentence 

guns in the hands of the wrong people is dangerous and we as a society should be working to stop the prevalence of that. the problem is the US culture and government is broken at communication and can't find middle ground anywhere, rinse and repeat. its a disease that is seen pretty much across every major problem the country is facing, and has been facing for some time. and will continue to face cuz ain't nobody got time to find common ground.

pull out of the constant internet spin zone. good luck - we need you. 

 

Edited by staboner
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elfenix

elfenix 34364

Posted
Posted (edited)

here's enrollment in elementary/secondary schools, it's barely budged. gone up maybe 10% from the mid 1960s.  that's not enough to say that 28 killings in 1996 is equivalent to 14 killings in 1988.  johnny's figures are starting from when the death toll had already ramped up. from 1970 to 1991 there were no years with 15 or more deaths in a year.  from 1992 to 2019 there were only 10 years with 14 or fewer deaths in a year.

 

 

fig02.png

Edited by elfenix
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Neonmoon

Neonmoon 38130

Posted
Posted

Guns will be gone eventually. Maybe not in my lifetime, but they will. This new generation will not have the same rosy view of hunting with good old Dad. They grew up during mass school shootings. They will grow up and change the laws. It’s like anything. The old views are challenged, the new views are ridiculed, then rejected, then resisted violently, then change happens. 

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Guns will be gone eventually. Maybe not in my lifetime, but they will. This new generation will not have the same rosy view of hunting with good old Dad. They grew up during mass school shootings. They will grow up and change the laws. It’s like anything. The old views are challenged, the new views are ridiculed, then rejected, then resisted violently, then change happens. 

I don’t see that happening.  

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Coelenterate Fuccboi

Coelenterate Fuccboi 13132

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

Guns will be gone eventually. Maybe not in my lifetime, but they will. This new generation will not have the same rosy view of hunting with good old Dad. They grew up during mass school shootings. They will grow up and change the laws. It’s like anything. The old views are challenged, the new views are ridiculed, then rejected, then resisted violently, then change happens. 

I wonder what the plan would be for getting non-law abiding citizens to hand over their weapons? Or those that just want to hang on to guns to protect from these criminals?

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4639

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

Guns will be gone eventually. Maybe not in my lifetime, but they will. This new generation will not have the same rosy view of hunting with good old Dad. They grew up during mass school shootings. They will grow up and change the laws. It’s like anything. The old views are challenged, the new views are ridiculed, then rejected, then resisted violently, then change happens. 

I don’t disagree that their views may be different than ours, just like mine if different from my parents.  But kids that grow up hunting aren’t going to just stop, anymore than ones of the previous generation did.  The next school shooting that’s done by a kids with dads hunting rifle will be the first.  Guns will be around as long as there is a United States.  Very highly regulated, but that isn’t necessarily a bad thing (if common sense measures) 

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Neonmoon

Neonmoon 38130

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Johnny Sack said:

I don’t see that happening.  

That’s the beauty of the future. It doesn’t matter what you think. You will be dead 

13 minutes ago, Casual Encounter said:

I wonder what the plan would be for getting non-law abiding citizens to hand over their weapons? Or those that just want to hang on to guns to protect from these criminals?

I have no idea what the plan will be. I’m sure it will be a long transition. Years of buybacks and then years of deadlines for when penalties for possession would apply etc. penalties would increasing from a warning to a ticket to a fine to community service to jail over a 10 to 15 year period. that would make the most sense, but I’m sure the US will fuck it up
 

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ImissWallyPryor

ImissWallyPryor 9046

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Cody2422 said:

See bolded part above.  No one wants to have a conversation.  You seemed to somewhat agree with what I was saying, but then promptly resorted to “but the republicans don’t want to do what we want”. No fuck that.  I can play that game too.  “But when you have one party who immediately says let’s confiscate all guns from law abiding citizens.  And lets solve the immigration issue by not having a border!”  Republicans suck. Democrats suck.  
 

term limits is a good start to solve most of our problems 

I especially liked the parts where he said EVERYONE [all CAPS in one case].  I've heard precisely zero people say everyone.

Edited by ImissWallyPryor
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Neonmoon

Neonmoon 38130

Posted
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I don’t disagree that their views may be different than ours, just like mine if different from my parents.  But kids that grow up hunting aren’t going to just stop, anymore than ones of the previous generation did.  The next school shooting that’s done by a kids with dads hunting rifle will be the first.  Guns will be around as long as there is a United States.  Very highly regulated, but that isn’t necessarily a bad thing (if common sense measures) 

Look I get it. There will always be people who grow up with a healthy respectful safe view of gun ownership. But there will always be people who don’t. Maybe you’re right, maybe guns will be around forever, but I don’t believe they will be. I just look at our history and see all the thousands of people that started protesting, demanding change for something, and they usually get the change they seek. It may take 20, 50, 100 years, but it happens. Civil Rights, Womens Rights, Gay Rights, Legalization of Marijuana, The decline of cigarettes, the protection of the environment. Now I know you will say, guns are different because of X, Y, Z. Again, you could be right, I don’t know. I’ve just seen this movie before, and the people who want change usually don’t stop until they get that change 

Edited by Neonmoon
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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

Posted
Posted
36 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

That’s the beauty of the future. It doesn’t matter what you think. You will be dead 

I have no idea what the plan will be. I’m sure it will be a long transition. Years of buybacks and then years of deadlines for when penalties for possession would apply etc. penalties would increasing from a warning to a ticket to a fine to community service to jail over a 10 to 15 year period. that would make the most sense, but I’m sure the US will fuck it up
 

Also the beauty about making predictions about things you hope will happen after you die.  

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

Posted
Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Look I get it. There will always be people who grow up with a healthy respectful safe view of gun ownership. But there will always be people who don’t. Maybe you’re right, maybe guns will be around forever, but I don’t believe they will be. I just look at our history and see all the thousands of people that started protesting, demanding change for something, and they usually get the change they seek. It may take 20, 50, 100 years, but it happens. Civil Rights, Womens Rights, Gay Rights, Legalization of Marijuana, The decline of cigarettes, the protection of the environment. Now I know you will say, guns are different because of X, Y, Z. Again, you could be right, I don’t know. I’ve just seen this movie before, and the people who want change usually don’t stop until they get that change 

The trend in my life has been the ability to buy guns has gotten easier.  And military style weapons with high capacity are way, way more common.  I’m 43.  I don’t recall even seeing an AR in private hands until maybe 2000 or so.  And that was rare.  You’d see maybe a few Ruger mini 14s.  I’ve spent a lot of time in the field hunting   At a very large ranch where our guests are typically top 1 percent types   And Ive also spent a lot of time hunting at normal middle class leases all over the state   

In the last ten years ARs have absolutely exploded.  They are very common.  From the c level guys to the $50k a year guys.  

I don’t even care about ARs that much.  I like them. I am just saying that their ownership has exploded in the last 15 years.  

Ban them.  Band high cap mags.  At best it drops our gun homicide rate a fraction of a point.  

Edited by Johnny Sack
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austingirl

austingirl 2192

Posted
Posted

I cannot imagine how someone's first reaction to news like this is "well, statistically, it's very unlikely for a kid to get shot at school." The odds may be low, but the stakes are about as high as they can get. That "fraction of a point" is people. I DGAF if y'all keep your hunting rifles and your pistols and whatnot, but for the love of Christ can we at least implement universal background checks and close the gun show loophole? I mean sure, maybe it won't solve the problem, but it won't hurt anyone and best case scenario, it could save a few lives. Those lives could be my children, or someone else's loved ones. How is that not worth the effort? 

 

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TexArcher

TexArcher 38119

Posted
Posted (edited)

Here's a fun set of stats:

The combined population of England and Wales in 2018 was almost 60 million.

The population of America in 2018 was 327 million.

In 2018, there were 732 homicides in England and Wales.

In 2018, there were 15,498 homicides in America.

So there were a little over 5 times as many people in America as in England/Wales.  And there were over 21 times as many homicides.

They watch the same movies, listen to the same music, and play the same video games over there.

So what could possibly account for the difference in murder rate?

You're gonna say mental health issues in America, aren't you?  Because that's the party line.

Except...

Approximately 1 in 5 people in America experience a mental health issue each year.  https://www.nami.org/learn-more/mental-health-by-the-numbers

Approximately 1 in 4 people in the UK experience a mental health issue each year.  https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/statistics-and-facts-about-mental-health/how-common-are-mental-health-problems/#.Xc4Wr7dMHqs

So now what?  What's your next bullshit explanation other than the one that's plainly obvious to anyone who takes an honest look?

Good luck...

Edited by TexArcher
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