TNF: Steelers @ Browns

[ulukinatme 1760]

 

18 minutes ago, JBJ said:

What retaliation? Yelling at him? Rudolph never through a punch or kick.

Have you watched the video?  After he's brought down and the play is done he instigates contact with Garrett by pulling on his helmet, and then as Garrett is pulled away he literally charges him.  If he walks away, he doesn't get hit in the head and nobody is talking about the scuffle today.  Not condoning what Garrett did, but Rudolph isn't blameless here.

13 minutes ago, Chad said:

You have to be a special kind of stupid to justify swinging a fucking helmet as "defense".

Consider this:  you're playing football in the NFL, you just got into a heated fight with another player.  A lineman picks you up off the ground and starts dragging you away, while the guy you had been fighting with gets up and starts shoving you and asking for more.  You can't tussle with him again as you're getting pushed away by the lineman, so you swing the helmet to get him to back off.  Again, not condoning it, but in the heat of moment and you've got someone coming at you I think a lot of people would react similarly.  

Edited November 15, 2019 by ulukinatme

[Underdog 28460]

After just coming off concussion protocol, I imagine that noggin is still a little mushy.  

OT: Is Olberman vying for a spot as the new Colonel for KFC? 

[honolulu horn 6157]

1 minute ago, ulukinatme said:

 

Have you watched the video?  After he's brought down and the play is done he instigates contact with Garrett by pulling on his helmet, and then as Garrett is pulled away he literally charges him.  If he walks away, he doesn't get hit in the head and nobody is talking about the scuffle today.  Not condoning what Garrett did, but Rudolph isn't blameless here.

Consider this:  you're playing football in the NFL, you just got into a heated fight with another player.  A lineman picks you up off the ground and starts dragging you away, while the guy you had been fighting with gets up and starts shoving you and asking for more.  You can't tussle with him again as you're getting pushed away by the lineman, so you swing the helmet to get him to back off.  Again, not condoning it, but in the heat of moment and you've got someone coming at you I think a lot of people would react similarly.  

Probably wise to back away from the keyboard for a while, man.

[Huckleberry 32710]

Metal baseball bats are also hollow and have some give. I think ulukinatme should let someone test that hollow instrument theory on his skull.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Huckleberry

[TexArcher 37541]

2 minutes ago, ulukinatme said:

Consider this:  you're playing football in the NFL, you just got into a heated fight with another player.  A lineman picks you up off the ground and starts dragging you away, while the guy you had been fighting with gets up and starts shoving you and asking for more.  You can't tussle with him again as you're getting pushed away by the lineman, so you swing the helmet to get him to back off.  Again, not condoning it, but in the heat of moment and you've got someone coming at you I think a lot of people would react similarly.  

Consider this: you're in a bar and you get into a heated tussle with another drunk.  A bouncer starts dragging you away and the guy you had been fighting with starts shoving you and asking for more.  So you pick up a chair and hit him in the head with it.  Are you going to jail?

[HornsOverIthaca 2333]

Man, that time I got shot it was OK.  Shook it off.  Only a hollow-point bullet.

[SHOOTER12 8789]

17 hours ago, spystud13 said:

hundred CLEARLY has a personal issue with Rudolph, he doesn’t have a single post about the game except for bitching about him. 

 

 

 

Then all the ones since Aggy brained him. 

Hundred is mentally defective

[NeverMarryAStripper 21783]

Of course not, the guy you hit in the head with a chair obviously started it

[Chad 1728]

1 minute ago, ulukinatme said:

Consider this:  you're playing football in the NFL, you just got into a heated fight with another player.  A lineman picks you up off the ground and starts dragging you away, while the guy you had been fighting with gets up and starts shoving you and asking for more.  You can't tussle with him again as you're getting pushed away by the lineman, so you swing the helmet to get him to back off.  Again, not condoning it, but in the heat of moment and you've got someone coming at you I think a lot of people would react similarly.  

You're literally condoning it by labeling it as defense, holy fuck. In what world does a juiced up 270+lb lineman need to use a helmet as "defense" against a 230lb QB? I'm sure Myles was fearing for his life and solely swung that helmet out of "defense" because he felt Rudolph was going to attack him and cause immense bodily harm while he's in pads wearing a helmet. I'm curious are you an aggy? You sure sound like a texags poster. 

[honolulu horn 6157]

5 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

Consider this: you're in a bar and you get into a heated tussle with another drunk.  A bouncer starts dragging you away and the guy you had been fighting with starts shoving you and asking for more.  So you pick up a chair and hit him in the head with it.  Are you going to jail?

Was the chair hollow? Did it have some give?

[Huckleberry 32710]

I think he's a Baylor guy, right?

Which explains a whole lot about his takes on personal responsibility and physical assault offenses.

[ulukinatme 1760]

6 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

If the crown of that helmet had hit Mason in the forehead or temple, or the top of his head, it absolutely could have killed him.  Keep in mind that the guy swinging it is a steroid monster.

LOL at the helmet's hollow so it's not a deadly weapon.  You're out of your damned mind.

A football helmet is a thin, plastic shell with foam inside.  It's hard, and yeah it hurts, but it's fairly unlikely you kill a man just swinging it once.  Can it happen?  Maybe, but it's unlikely.  Again, Rudolph's first reaction is to throw his hands up in disbelief, not hold his head in pain.  If you haven't been hit with a helmet before you're just speculating.  The reason helmet to helmet hits are so dangerous has less to do with the composition of the helmet itself and more to do with the mass and velocity behind it.  Take a helmet to helmet shot with someone coming at you full speed in a football situation, then take an unprotected shot with someone swinging a helmet.  Both hurt, but one is going to be more damaging than the other.  There's far more mass and decent velocity behind the normal helmet to helmet hit.

[HornsOverIthaca 2333]

A wise man once said “Hi.  I’m Robert Lee.  A bouncer in Birmingham hit me five times in the face with a crescent wrench, then my wife’s boyfriend broke my jaw with a fence post.  So if you don’t buy a used trailer home from me, you ain’t gonna hurt my feelings.”

[Huckleberry 32710]

4 minutes ago, ulukinatme said:

A football helmet is a thin, plastic shell with foam inside.  It's hard, and yeah it hurts, but it's fairly unlikely you kill a man just swinging it once.  Can it happen?  Maybe, but it's unlikely.  Again, Rudolph's first reaction is to throw his hands up in disbelief, not hold his head in pain.  If you haven't been hit with a helmet before you're just speculating.  The reason helmet to helmet hits are so dangerous has less to do with the composition of the helmet itself and more to do with the mass and velocity behind it.  Take a helmet to helmet shot with someone coming at you full speed in a football situation, then take an unprotected shot with someone swinging a helmet.  Both hurt, but one is going to be more damaging than the other.  There's far more mass and decent velocity behind the normal helmet to helmet hit.

Yes, speculating.

Well, to be fair, also listening to the dozens and dozens of current NFL players who called it dangerous, disgusting, and unacceptable because of the potential damage it could do.

But you obviously understand better than NFL players what it's like to be hit with a helmet by an NFL player. We should trust you.

[ulukinatme 1760]

11 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Metal baseball bats are also hollow and have some give. I think ulukinatme should let someone test that hollow instrument theory on his skull.

I've been hit with a swinging helmet before.  I've also been pushed head first into the end of a dumpster while playing flag football:

Lets say I've got some experience with head injuries and I'll take the swinging helmet.

[Chad 1728]

2 minutes ago, ulukinatme said:

A football helmet is a thin, plastic shell with foam inside.  It's hard, and yeah it hurts, but it's fairly unlikely you kill a man just swinging it once.  Can it happen?  Maybe, but it's unlikely.  Again, Rudolph's first reaction is to throw his hands up in disbelief, not hold his head in pain.  If you haven't been hit with a helmet before you're just speculating.  The reason helmet to helmet hits are so dangerous has less to do with the composition of the helmet itself and more to do with the mass and velocity behind it.  Take a helmet to helmet shot with someone coming at you full speed in a football situation, then take an unprotected shot with someone swinging a helmet.  Both hurt, but one is going to be more damaging than the other.  There's far more mass and decent velocity behind the normal helmet to helmet hit.

 

I'm not a juiced up 270+ pounder, I'm only 195 but how about I smack you upside the head with a thin padded shell and you tell me how good it feels? Did you stray away from texags or what?

[TexArcher 37541]

1 minute ago, ulukinatme said:

Lets say I've got some experience with head injuries

Ya don't say...

[gecko 1104]

I don’t know...part of me thinks hitting a guy over the head WITH HIS OWN HELMET is a HOF worthy effort...

 

[ulukinatme 1760]

3 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

Ya don't say...

Hey, I probably have some brain damage, that's a given.  You guys are the ones arguing with someone who has first hand experience though 😏

Edited November 15, 2019 by ulukinatme

[Underdog 28460]

1 minute ago, ulukinatme said:

Hey, I didn't say I probably don't have some dain bramage.  You guys are the ones arguing with someone who has first hand experience though 😏

….

[Jshep34 2304]

Aggy: miles had sec speed on that swing.

[SHOOTER12 8789]

10 hours ago, Pancho said:

Should be suspended for a full 16 games plus any playoff games this season.

 

The rest of the season and all next season, 500k fine.

[TexArcher 37541]

2 minutes ago, ulukinatme said:

Hey, I didn't say I probably don't have some brain damage.  You guys are the ones arguing with someone who has first hand experience though 😏

Here's what I don't get: you're talking about how much more force is generated during a helmet-to-helmet hit while simultaneously saying that the gear designed to protect people from those hits isn't that solid?

And I'm not even sure you're right about the difference in force.  A guy who benches over 400 pounds swinging that thing in an overhand arc is generating a tremendous amount of force at an unprotected human skull.

But maybe you're right.  Maybe a direct hit wouldn't have killed him.  Maybe it would've just broken his nose and blinded him in one eye or just given him a minor skull fracture.   

[Deej 76585]

How about just not swinging the helmet at someone's head and never finding out how much damage it may cause?

[ulukinatme 1760]

1 minute ago, TexArcher said:

Here's what I don't get: you're talking about how much more force is generated during a helmet-to-helmet hit while simultaneously saying that the gear designed to protect people from those hits isn't that solid?

And I'm not even sure you're right about the difference in force.  A guy who benches over 400 pounds swinging that thing in an overhand arc is generating a tremendous amount of force at an unprotected human skull.

But maybe you're right.  Maybe a direct hit wouldn't have killed him.  Maybe it would've just broken his nose and blinded him in one eye or just given him a minor skull fracture.   

A helmet is hard, for sure, but the plastic shell is thin and has some give to it.  More so on the sides and definitely less so on the crown, but it was the side or edge of the helmet that hit Rudolph and not the top of it.  Science says power = mass x velocity.  Garrett can certainly generate a lot of velocity with the helmet, but there's far more mass with velocity behind a player coming full speed with a helmet to helmet hit.  He's putting his whole body into it, and there can be no give with the helmet while the head is inside.  

Garrett can certainly hurt a man with a helmet, of that there can be no doubt, especially if he had used the top of it.  I'm still advocating he miss the entire season as well as games next season, which would be more than what Haynesworth got for cleats to the unprotected head of Guronde.  I just think it's unlikely that death would have resulted from one swing, especially given Rudolph's reaction to it and the fact I've taken a swing like that.

[Sejjr 3246]

Believe it or not, you can kill a person with one punch. Liam Neeson’s wife died hitting her head on the fucking snow. You never know what the result of a blow to the head will be. 

[Deej 76585]

That hit didn't kill Rudolph, thus someone can't be killed by being struck in the head with a helmet. Logic seems solid 

[Disco Missile 456]

54 minutes ago, ulukinatme said:

Consider this:  you're playing football in the NFL, you just got into a heated fight with another player.  A lineman picks you up off the ground and starts dragging you away, while the guy you had been fighting with gets up and starts shoving you and asking for more.  You can't tussle with him again as you're getting pushed away by the lineman, so you swing the helmet to get him to back off.  Again, not condoning it, but in the heat of moment and you've got someone coming at you I think a lot of people would react similarly.  

Oh man, I actually laughed out loud at this one. This thread did not let me down even a little bit.

Myles Garrett having to defend himself from Mason Rudolph! I'm dying over here!

[Zavala 1384]

Lulz just heard about this. First attempted murder with a deadly weapon on the field?

He should get locked up for that shit and never play again. What an aggy

[Trey3216 15325]

1 hour ago, ulukinatme said:

 

Have you watched the video?  After he's brought down and the play is done he instigates contact with Garrett by pulling on his helmet, and then as Garrett is pulled away he literally charges him.  If he walks away, he doesn't get hit in the head and nobody is talking about the scuffle today.  Not condoning what Garrett did, but Rudolph isn't blameless here.

Consider this:  you're playing football in the NFL, you just got into a heated fight with another player.  A lineman picks you up off the ground and starts dragging you away, while the guy you had been fighting with gets up and starts shoving you and asking for more.  You can't tussle with him again as you're getting pushed away by the lineman, so you swing the helmet to get him to back off.  Again, not condoning it, but in the heat of moment and you've got someone coming at you I think a lot of people would react similarly.  

Consider you’re married.  Your wife finds text messages to another woman.  She sees that y’all have been having an affair.  But the other woman initiated the conversation.  You’re getting a divorce because of your idiocy, not the other woman’s. 

[honolulu horn 6157]

26 minutes ago, ulukinatme said:

 I just think it's unlikely that death would have resulted from one swing, especially given Rudolph's reaction to it and the fact I've taken a swing like that.

Steve Irwin thought the same thing about stingrays. Of course that helmet could've killed him. Next time you take the crown of a helmet to your dome being swung by a juiced up 280-pound NFL DB, let us know. It might just be worse than running into a dumpster, as crazy as that sounds.

But my original point was that the lack of injury to Rudolph doesn't take away Garrett's culpability in his intent to cause harm, which I think we agree on.

[Deej 76585]

aggy cracks me up.

"Probably used a racial slur. He deserved it."

Johnny Football uses a racial slur against a black man:

"He deserved it. Johnny is a hero."

[GTX Horn 1707]

After Rudolph’s performance last night I’m not sure what would be a bigger punishment for the Steelers: Rudolph not being suspended and still playing or him actually being suspended and missing a game.

[Trey3216 15325]

59 minutes ago, ulukinatme said:

Hey, I probably have some brain damage, that's a given.  You guys are the ones arguing with someone who has first hand experience though 😏

The lunatic is on the grass.  The lunatic is on the grass.  Remembering games, and Daisy Chains and laughs.  Gotta keep the loonies on the path.  

[Zavala 1384]

19 hours ago, Drew said:

Crap I just saw what aggy boy did.

Bet TexAgs us having a field day, defending him.

Oh wait:

Lulz aggy assuming the n word is peak small brain

[ulukinatme 1760]

14 minutes ago, honolulu horn said:

Steve Irwin thought the same thing about stingrays. Of course that helmet could've killed him. Next time you take the crown of a helmet to your dome being swung by a juiced up 280-pound NFL DB, let us know. It might just be worse than running into a dumpster, as crazy as that sounds.

But my original point was that the lack of injury to Rudolph doesn't take away Garrett's culpability in his intent to cause harm, which I think we agree on.

He didn't take a hit with the crown of the helmet though, he was hit with the side of the helmet, the part of the helmet with the most give.  I haven't taken a hit from Miles Garrett, but I have taken a hit with a helmet.  Hurt like hell, but it wasn't anything like taking a shot to the forehead from the end of a dumpster.  The helmet left a small bruise, the dumpster created a giant goose egg that left me concussed and sipping broth for a few days afterwards.  Again, Rudolph was not doubled over in pain after the shot, he was throwing his hands up in disbelief.

I agree, the injury doesn't take away from Garrett's guiltiness, and I think he shouldn't be back on a field until 2020 at the earliest, I'm just arguing that a lot of people are throwing around death as a strong possibility when it's more likely a freak chance with one hit.  The Haynesworth cleat stomp was more dangerous, and yet he too should have been suspended more games.

[Iceman 2648]

1 hour ago, ulukinatme said:

I've been hit with a swinging helmet before.  I've also been pushed head first into the end of a dumpster because of my posts.

Lets say I've got some experience with head injuries 

Thank you, Captain Obvious.

[ulukinatme 1760]

17 minutes ago, Iceman said:

Thank you, Captain Obvious.

I'm glad you didn't miss that softball I tossed up for some levity, especially since two other posters already swung at it.  Bless your heart.

[Deej 76585]

26 minutes ago, ulukinatme said:

He didn't take a hit with the crown of the helmet though, he was hit with the side of the helmet, the part of the helmet with the most give.  I haven't taken a hit from Miles Garrett, but I have taken a hit with a helmet.  Hurt like hell, but it wasn't anything like taking a shot to the forehead from the end of a dumpster.  The helmet left a small bruise, the dumpster created a giant goose egg that left me concussed and sipping broth for a few days afterwards.  Again, Rudolph was not doubled over in pain after the shot, he was throwing his hands up in disbelief.

I agree, the injury doesn't take away from Garrett's guiltiness, and I think he shouldn't be back on a field until 2020 at the earliest, I'm just arguing that a lot of people are throwing around death as a strong possibility when it's more likely a freak chance with one hit.  The Haynesworth cleat stomp was more dangerous, and yet he too should have been suspended more games.

Garrett really seemed to be paying attention to what part of the helmet he was hitting him with. 

[InkaUtexas 25538]

3 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

It’s very clear none of you have been hit in the head with an empty football helmet.  All of your arguments are specious at best.

Or maybe they have and it impacts their ability to remember. 

[Zavala 1384]

38 minutes ago, ulukinatme said:

He didn't take a hit with the crown of the helmet though, he was hit with the side of the helmet, the part of the helmet with the most give.  I haven't taken a hit from Miles Garrett, but I have taken a hit with a helmet.  Hurt like hell, but it wasn't anything like taking a shot to the forehead from the end of a dumpster.  The helmet left a small bruise, the dumpster created a giant goose egg that left me concussed and sipping broth for a few days afterwards.  Again, Rudolph was not doubled over in pain after the shot, he was throwing his hands up in disbelief.

I agree, the injury doesn't take away from Garrett's guiltiness, and I think he shouldn't be back on a field until 2020 at the earliest, I'm just arguing that a lot of people are throwing around death as a strong possibility when it's more likely a freak chance with one hit.  The Haynesworth cleat stomp was more dangerous, and yet he too should have been suspended more games.

Blunt force trauma to the head can be lights out forever. I don't think you see how lucky Okie lite QB got when he didn't catch a direct blow from the helmet.

Whipping a 5 lb helmet at the top of someone's head can generate the forces required to kill. Think of swinging a hammer. Sure some of the force dissipates back into the helmet, but depending on the angle, it's not going to be much. There's a wide range of stiffness in plastic, just because it's plastic doesn't mean it's like swinging a water bottle.

Anyway, horrible take, just because his attempt to horribly injure the guy was unsuccessful doesn't take away from the attempt. This is worse than Ron Artest fighting fans in the stands. He should never play again.

 

Edited November 16, 2019 by Zavala

[ulukinatme 1760]

2 minutes ago, Zavala said:

Blunt force trauma to the head can be lights out forever. I don't think you see how lucky Okie lite QB got when he didn't catch a direct blow from the helmet.

Whipping a 5 lb helmet at the top of someone's head can generate the forces required to kill. Think of swinging a hammer. Sure some of the force dissipates back into the helmet, but depending on the angle, it's not going to be much. There's a wide range of stiffness in plastic, just because it's plastic doesn't mean it's like swinging a water bottle.

Anyway, horrible take.

 

If Garrett connects with Rudolph's head while swinging a hammer with a solid, steel head he's going to get a major contusion and some serious damage.  Instead he's hit with a hard plastic helmet and he's throwing his hands up in disbelief instead of being knocked out on the ground.  The two aren't comparable.  While I haven't taken a hit from a hammer, the steel rod at the end of a dumpster would be pretty close and I've experienced that.  I've experienced the helmet hit too, and the result isn't remotely the same.

[Zavala 1384]

1 minute ago, ulukinatme said:

If Garrett connects with Rudolph's head while swinging a hammer with a solid, steel head he's going to get a major contusion and some serious damage.  Instead he's hit with a hard plastic helmet and he's throwing his hands up in disbelief instead of being knocked out on the ground.  The two aren't comparable.  While I haven't taken a hit from a hammer, the steel rod at the end of a dumpster would be pretty close and I've experienced that.  I've experienced the helmet hit too, and the result isn't remotely the same.

The weight of the object and the stiffness = the force of impact.

The material doesn't matter. Mason got lucky he was hit by a part of the helmet that doesn't have as much stiffness, and that it was a glancing blow. Either way, the attempt was there. 

 

[Zavala 1384]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

How about you stop holding your penis. I was in a brawl in an intramural game. It was bad. Nobody went to jail. Lots of people technically could have gone to jail, particularly some Jamaicans from the track team. But it’s sports. Is it acceptable?  No. Did Garrett get really lucky he didn’t injure Rudolph?  Yes. Should he have been suspended the remainder of the season?  Sure. Felony assault?  Come the fuck on. 

The rule of law isn't suspended on the field during a football game dude. All the facts are there. 

All these personal anecodes as arguements are retarded. 

Uh dude I smashed my head on a steel dumpster worse it's WAY worse than the time I got hit in the head with a helmet. Ok?

Uh bro I got into a fight in pee wee football nobody got arrested. 🤣

[Deej 76585]

Myles had SEC accuracy with the blow. SEC talent knows exactly how to swing a helmet 

[Sejjr 3246]

There are many incidents of people getting arrested and charged with felony assault for striking people with a motorcycle helmet. I have no doubt that Ulukinatme, Attorney at Law, would field a strong defense using the "hollow plastic, not a dumpster" defense. 

[Pato del Muerto 52356]

James Harrison should stfu about how to behave on a football field. 
 

one of you guys should tell him. 

[ulukinatme 1760]

26 minutes ago, Zavala said:

 

The weight of the object and the stiffness = the force of impact.

 

Force = mass x acceleration, not stiffness.  The force can be more damaging depending on the object though and how that force is applied/concentrated into a small area.  Get a gelatin ballistics head, hit it with a hammer, then hit it with the side of a helmet and tell me which does more damage.  Even if the same person is swinging both items  with the same strength you're going to have more damage from the hammer for a variety of reasons. For one the molecules/mass in the hammer is packed in more densely which results in less air resistance and greater velocity.  Another reason would be that the force of the hammer is being focused to a small point to maximize it's energy transfer, while a helmet is broader and the force is spread out more evenly. 

Think of it as a slap vs. a punch.  The hand's mass doesn't change, but the velocity changes because of wind resistance of the open palm and arm vs. a punch coming like a tightly packed cylinder straight ahead.  You wind up with more force from the punch.

[hundredTT 576]

20 hours ago, elguapo said:

Tough guy, why don’t you stand still and let Myles Garrett take a full swing at you with a helmet, then you can come tell everyone how much they are overreacting.

Fucking dumbass

I’m sure you’re someone who has never been hit; you vagina bitch. But yes I’ve been cheap shot in fucking high school football under the pile that required eye surgery...in 2006 much less. STFU pussy, you obviously aren’t a man, please clean up your tampon blood trail as well bitch.

 

if Rudolph presses charges, his small horrible career will be over. Get real. 

Edited November 16, 2019 by hundredTT

[Pato del Muerto 52356]

13 minutes ago, ulukinatme said:

Force = mass x acceleration, not stiffness.  The force can be more damaging depending on the object though and how that force is applied/concentrated into a small area.  Get a gelatin ballistics head, hit it with a hammer, then hit it with the side of a helmet and tell me which does more damage.  Even if the same person is swinging both items  with the same strength you're going to have more damage from the hammer for a variety of reasons. For one the molecules/mass in the hammer is packed in more densely which results in less air resistance and greater velocity.  Another reason would be that the force of the hammer is being focused to a small point to maximize it's energy transfer, while a helmet is broader and the force is spread out more evenly. 

Think of it as a slap vs. a punch.  The hand's mass doesn't change, but the velocity changes because of wind resistance of the open palm and arm vs. a punch coming like a tightly packed cylinder straight ahead.  You wind up with more force from the punch.

He didn’t hit him with the side of the helmet, he hit him with the edge at the ear hole. 
which means:

1) more rigidity. Helmets are not designed to absorb energy in that direction. Like getting hit with the edge of a frisbee vs the middle. 
2) smaller impact area which means the force/area is increased

or something like brass knuckles in your slap/punch analogy. 

Edited November 16, 2019 by Pato del Muerto