Demarvion Overshown makes plays

[Horn Dog 9674]

It may be time for UT to abruptly defund the B12, invoke,  sovereign immunity, and say see you bitches in court.  Tie the B12 up in court for a decade or more and enjoy the discovery portion where our lawyers get to sift through B12 admin and refs internal emails for the last decade or so.

[Chuckie Finster 22600]

Sark needs to begin every Monday press conference with a compilation video of the bad calls from the previous game and then list off the names of the crew.

This is now impacting the health and potential livelihood of our players at the next level. Need to make the refs think twice about the obviously preplanned screw jobs.

[Pato del Muerto 52342]

7 hours ago, stork642 said:

What the hell did Overshown do to the big 12 refs?  That’s 2 out of three games they’ve called him for false targeting.  

Both on third and long sacks in the second half of close games

[Pam Cummings 9582]

Incompetence just doesn't explain it anymore. I watch other games too, and this type of thing just doesn't happen to anyone else, let alone two games in a row. It is malicious.

Edited September 22, 2022 by Pam Cummings

[immamac 42519]

1 minute ago, Pam Cummings said:

Incompetence just doesn't explain it anymore. I watch other games too, and this type of thing just doesn't happen to anyone else, let alone two games in a row. It is malicious.

I'm starting to believe this. This is twice that national media has been straight on the WTF side and even fans that hate Texas are admitting Texas is getting jobbed. What an absolute disgrace. 

[UncleBuck 6446]

I am sick and tired of these dumbass internet/twitter refs rushing to tell me how it was the right call. "First off he leads with his helmet." WHAT OTHER BODY PART DO YOU EXPECT TO BE LEADING? Your head will always be out front unless you're standing straight up, and no one stands straight up to make a tackle, or with their head angled back so that it is not out front. These kids can't change the order their body parts are stacked in. These dweebs need to get away from our game, they're fucking it up. 

[Pam Cummings 9582]

1 minute ago, UncleBuck said:

I am sick and tired of these dumbass internet/twitter refs rushing to tell me how it was the right call. "First off he leads with his helmet." WHAT OTHER BODY PART DO YOU EXPECT TO BE LEADING? Your head will always be out front unless you're standing straight up, and no one stands straight up to make a tackle, or with their head angled back so that it is not out front. These kids can't change the order their body parts are stacked in. These dweebs need to get away from our game, they're fucking it up. 

Seriously. "I'm a ref and these other refs are definitely correct" isn't the look that they think it is.

[Pam Cummings 9582]

1 minute ago, UncleBuck said:

I am sick and tired of these dumbass internet/twitter refs rushing to tell me how it was the right call. "First off he leads with his helmet." WHAT OTHER BODY PART DO YOU EXPECT TO BE LEADING? Your head will always be out front unless you're standing straight up, and no one stands straight up to make a tackle, or with their head angled back so that it is not out front. These kids can't change the order their body parts are stacked in. These dweebs need to get away from our game, they're fucking it up. 

Seriously. "I'm a ref and these other refs are definitely correct" isn't the look that they think it is.

[UncleBuck 6446]

1 minute ago, Pam Cummings said:

Seriously. "I'm a ref and these other refs are definitely correct" isn't the look that they think it is.

You can say that again!

[wood 11166]

9 minutes ago, UncleBuck said:

I am sick and tired of these dumbass internet/twitter refs rushing to tell me how it was the right call. "First off he leads with his helmet." WHAT OTHER BODY PART DO YOU EXPECT TO BE LEADING? Your head will always be out front unless you're standing straight up, and no one stands straight up to make a tackle, or with their head angled back so that it is not out front. These kids can't change the order their body parts are stacked in. These dweebs need to get away from our game, they're fucking it up. 

And the thing is, he didn't 'lead with his head' in the targeting sense, where the defender puts hit head down and leads with the crown.  He did what everyone has been taught to do make the play and avoid the penalty. It was literally a perfectly clean form tackle.

Unbelievable bullshit call and lack of overturn on the appeal. Fuck the Big 12. Can't wait to get out of this bullshit hillbilly conference.

[Steamboat1874 4032]

Face mask to face mask contact should NEVER be targeting....EVER !

[Texas St. Armadillos 1381]

8 hours ago, Helobious said:

Targeting suspensions bleeding into the next game has always and will always be so fucking stupid.

 

I could see a targeting called in the last 5 minutes of a game being penalized with missing the next game's first half, but, yes I agree with you.

[Texas St. Armadillos 1381]

Like my coach always said, we have to put ourselves in a position where a ref cannot decide the outcome.  Not fair, but it's reality.

[UncleBuck 6446]

12 minutes ago, wood said:

And the thing is, he didn't 'lead with his head' in the targeting sense, where the defender puts hit head down and leads with the crown.  He did what everyone has been taught to do make the play and avoid the penalty. It was literally a perfectly clean form tackle.

Unbelievable bullshit call and lack of overturn on the appeal. Fuck the Big 12. Can't wait to get out of this bullshit hillbilly conference.

Well he didn't lead with his "crown," no, but the people I'm talking about are mentioning the leading with "helmet," which is targetting if using it to attack while making forcible contact to the "head or neck area" of the player. Also leading with the shoulder, elbow or whatever to attack and making forcible contact to the head or neck area is a targeting penalty. But so much of it is bullshit. Most of the time the speed of the game, what exactly players are physically capable of, and what the object of the fucking game is is tossed out of the window.

1st, in this case, Overshown comes out of a cannon, and honestly is probably shocked that QB is even right there. The QB isn't very far back, and is up in the pocket, so he really didn't have a chance to get lower and wrap him up around the waste. So what is he supposed to do? Side step and tackle him from behind? No, that's not football. The solution would be to get lower. BUT Overshown had no time to get much lower, and had he lowered then he probably DOES hit the QB with the crown of his helmet.

4 minutes ago, Texas St. Armadillos said:

Like my coach always said, we have to put ourselves in a position where a ref cannot decide the outcome.  Not fair, but it's reality.

It shouldn't be reality, is the point we're all making. 

Edited September 22, 2022 by UncleBuck

[Fondren & Main 6670]

1 hour ago, sportsbay said:

It's also time to quit worrying about targeting on the qb.  If you get the missile shot, take it.  You're going out anyway.

"Kill the QB.  Hit the TE so hard his girlfriend dies...kill EVERYONE."

[Pam Cummings 9582]

7 minutes ago, Texas St. Armadillos said:

Like my coach always said, we have to put ourselves in a position where a ref cannot decide the outcome.  Not fair, but it's reality.

That's impossible, as it would require pefect execution on every play. I understand the message, and coaches should preach it, but players lose their jobs when they don't do them correctly. Refs don't. In fact, they insist that their bad decisions are actually correct. It's a shit system.

[ztejas 43266]

Here's Barn getting tagged for the same shit for a nearly identical play last season (actually I think this one is even worse).

It isn't just Texas or the B12. This horseshit has infested the entire sport. They really need to change the punishment and adopt a flagrant 1/2 demarcation. 

Edited September 22, 2022 by ztejas

[UncleBuck 6446]

8 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Here's Barn getting tagged for the same shit for a nearly identical play last season (actually I think this one is even worse).

It isn't just Texas or the B12. This horseshit has infested the entire sport. They really need to change the punishment and adopt a flagrant 1/2 demarcation. 

That one's gunna get called more than Overshown's simply because the defender left his feet/launched. 

[bigcigar 1161]

6 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Here's Barn getting tagged for the same shit for a nearly identical play last season (actually I think this one is even worse).

It isn't just Texas or the B12. This horseshit has infested the entire sport. They really need to change the punishment and adopt a flagrant 1/2 demarcation. 

I see a bit more “intent” there (launched). I have no idea what Overshown could have done differently. Maybe dive at the knees and end the qbs year with an unnecessary injury?

It’s been said before, but the Dallas Turner hit was substantially more aggressive than Overshown’s tackle…and Ewers didn’t even have the ball any more.

Saving lives I guess. SC sprains have zero potential of immediately being life threatening whereas there’s a high chance Overshown could have exploded Harris’s head.

[ztejas 43266]

Just now, UncleBuck said:

That one's gunna get called more than Overshown's simply because the defender left his feet/launched. 

I'm not sure there's any head to head contact though. 

[Helobious 9481]

6 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Here's Barn getting tagged for the same shit for a nearly identical play last season (actually I think this one is even worse).

It isn't just Texas or the B12. This horseshit has infested the entire sport. They really need to change the punishment and adopt a flagrant 1/2 demarcation. 

Yeah anyone that thinks Texas is particularly victimized by bad calls (exceptions for 2015 Ok State and the OU non-holdings every year) doesn’t watch much other college football. CFB refs just are not very good in general. B12 refs do seem to be slightly worse other conferences though, and the call on Overshown was a very bad one.

[Sawbonz 27436]

They need to go to 2 hands anywhere for the QB

[Codaxx 5602]

I would actually like to see the reasoning behind upholding the targeting. It would actully be helpful to understand the rule

[UncleBuck 6446]

Just now, ztejas said:

I'm not sure there's any head to head contact though. 

I'm not saying it's the right call or a good call or anything, I'm just saying the launch is going to add to it. And remember, there doesn't have to be helmet to helmet. Forcible contact with a shoulder can be targeting. 

[DigglerontheHoof 21065]

8 minutes ago, bigcigar said:

I see a bit more “intent” there (launched). I have no idea what Overshown could have done differently. Maybe dive at the knees and end the qbs year with an unnecessary injury?

It’s been said before, but the Dallas Turner hit was substantially more aggressive than Overshown’s tackle…and Ewers didn’t even have the ball any more.

Saving lives I guess. SC sprains have zero potential of immediately being life threatening whereas there’s a high chance Overshown could have exploded Harris’s head.

"launched" as a violation is stupid as fuck

[Helobious 9481]

10 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

They need to go to 2 hands anywhere for the QB

That would decrease offense quite a bit I would think. Sacks would be way easier to get.

[Dahobbs 17447]

13 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Here's Barn getting tagged for the same shit for a nearly identical play last season (actually I think this one is even worse).

It isn't just Texas or the B12. This horseshit has infested the entire sport. They really need to change the punishment and adopt a flagrant 1/2 demarcation. 

That's actually a much closer call. He clearly launches into the tackle, which is an indicator of targeting. The only remaining issue is if the QB was defenseless. But again, the rules favor finding both an indication of targeting and defenseless player where there is any doubt. 

[Sawbonz 27436]

9 minutes ago, Helobious said:

That would decrease offense quite a bit I would think. Sacks would be way easier to get.

Oh I thought the goal was to protect the quarterback. And you saying it’s actually to increase offense?

[Js1 85112]

21 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

They need to go to 2 hands anywhere for the QB

2 hands???? Why do you want to HURT someone?

Anything within a foot of the QB will stop a play dead soon enough.  I mean, 2 hands? You might push him too hard. 

[Dahobbs 17447]

23 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

"launched" as a violation is stupid as fuck

Launching in and of itself isn't a violation. But it is considered an indicator of intent to attack with forcible contact beyond what is needed to make the play. You still need the other elements, e.g., defenseless player and forcible contact to head and neck area, to get a penalty. 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10145]

1 hour ago, Steamboat1874 said:

Face mask to face mask contact should NEVER be targeting....EVER !

This. You want to throw a roughing the passer or unnecessary roughness go for it if you need to, but kicking a player out of the game for a head up wrap up tackle is dumb.

[JBJ 3649]

46 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

That's actually a much closer call. He clearly launches into the tackle, which is an indicator of targeting. The only remaining issue is if the QB was defenseless. But again, the rules favor finding both an indication of targeting and defenseless player where there is any doubt. 

For the field officials only.  All elements must be confirmed on replay.

And a replay triggered by the booth is the opposite.  All elements must be indisputable.

---

The Auburn one might be worse because the QB in passing stance was not considered defenseless by rule last year.  But there is also clearly a launch.  At least the flag came on the field, though.

Edited September 22, 2022 by JBJ

[Had Enough 2057]

Yeah anyone that thinks Texas is particularly victimized by bad calls (exceptions for 2015 Ok State and the OU non-holdings every year) doesn’t watch much other college football. CFB refs just are not very good in general. B12 refs do seem to be slightly worse other conferences though, and the call on Overshown was a very bad one.

I’m generally a let’s see the numbers guy, but this is not true even though there are no specific numbers highlighted.

Our big 3 games last year that sent the season into the toilet were clearly beneficial to our opponent. OU and Bu didn’t have Jack for penalties. Non calls were massively in OUs favor. OSU had a roughing penalty extend a drive and didn’t get one for driving the Qb into the ground. Arkansas, with big 12 refs, had 3 non calls targeting/roughing. WVU injured Card late and senselessly. We did get a borderline one in our favor versus TCU. And on OU when Foster recovered the fumble that was subsequently overturned the OU punk ran down and stuck his crown in his back. Nothing.

Going back years, Sam got several cheap shots from OU yet nothing. Weak ass fall down by Lamb and Roach who had no prospect of stopping barely hits him. No chance of injury. Gone.

It’s a subjective call, subjectively applied and they totally disregard the intent of the rule.

Overshown as has been pointed out was just playing football. He can’t help he’s tall. He was not violent or excessive in his actions.

[JBJ 3649]

Someone explain to me how the DMO hit is different than Play #1 here:

 

[Skipper 6103]

1 hour ago, bigcigar said:

I see a bit more “intent” there (launched). I have no idea what Overshown could have done differently. Maybe dive at the knees and end the qbs year with an unnecessary injury?

I don't know how else you can possibly coach a player that has an open shot at the QB to do anything other than go low at this point (which yes, will result in knee injuries). The people in charge of this sport are absolute morons.

[Tex Long 4348]

Suggested change in Official Rules:

Players designated as "Quarterback" shall wear, in addition to other prescribed uniform elements, a tackle flag on his left hip, a tackle flag on his right hip, and a shako on his helmet. Any defensive player approaching a Quarterback may accomplish a tackle by removing either flag or the shako, but may not touch any other parrt of a Quarterback's equipment, flesh, or clothing, including shoes, skirts, panties and other lingerie. Failure to avoid this restriction shall be penalized of not less than half the distance to the goalline and ejection of any and all Defense players who either are guilty of "Touching the Quarterback" or are within 4.33 yards of the pointof such touching. Flags shall be attached to Quarterbacks' costumes only by approved Velcro-type products. The shako shall be clamped to the center of the helmet crown by a clamp which requires no more than 119.977 pounds of force to overcome. Upon removal of a flag or shako, a display of gold-colored glitter shall be erupted from the area of removal as an indicator of such removal. Following such delay, the flag or shako eruptive mechanism shall be restored, and the Quarterback may not participate until such restorative procedures are completed. In the spiirit of Sportmanship and Player Safety, play will not be resumed until either the restorative procedures have been accomplished or fifteen minutes shall have elapseed. In the event play resumes without the restoration, the Defensive player who accomplished the removal shall not be allowed to participate until the flag or shako has been restored. CLARIFICATION: As an alternative to restoration of the original equipment the Quarter back may substitute pants or helmet with intact flag or shako.

[ztejas 43266]

10 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

I’m generally a let’s see the numbers guy, but this is not true even though there are no specific numbers highlighted.

Our big 3 games last year that sent the season into the toilet were clearly beneficial to our opponent. OU and Bu didn’t have Jack for penalties. Non calls were massively in OUs favor. OSU had a roughing penalty extend a drive and didn’t get one for driving the Qb into the ground. Arkansas, with big 12 refs, had 3 non calls targeting/roughing. WVU injured Card late and senselessly. We did get a borderline one in our favor versus TCU. And on OU when Foster recovered the fumble that was subsequently overturned the OU punk ran down and stuck his crown in his back. Nothing.

Going back years, Sam got several cheap shots from OU yet nothing. Weak ass fall down by Lamb and Roach who had no prospect of stopping barely hits him. No chance of injury. Gone.

It’s a subjective call, subjectively applied and they totally disregard the intent of the rule.

Overshown as has been pointed out was just playing football. He can’t help he’s tall. He was not violent or excessive in his actions.

Oh - we definitely get routinely fucked by the B12. My point posting that Auburn play is that there are horseshit targeting calls all over the place. For that rule and punishment specifically it isn't just a Texas thing. 

[Skipper 6103]

12 minutes ago, JBJ said:

Someone explain to me how the DMO hit is different than Play #1 here:

 

His explanation of why it's not targeting is EXACTLY the same situation. I'm truly at a loss as to what the basis is for not overturning.

[JBJ 3649]

9 minutes ago, Skipper said:

I don't know how else you can possibly coach a player that has an open shot at the QB to do anything other than go low at this point (which yes, will result in knee injuries). The people in charge of this sport are absolute morons.

Hitting the knee area or below on a QB is also roughing now.  As is gator rolling a QB. 

In combination, all these changes are crazy.  Teams have been teaching rugby, gator, and chest tackling to avoid penalties.  Apparently all three are illegal against a QB now.  They are going to go back to shoulder thrust to midsection, which is far more dangerous.

Edited September 22, 2022 by JBJ

[Tylerocks 2551]

The fact that the call was upheld is fucking ridiculous.

Like someone upthread mentioned, I think both QB and DMO were surprised each other was there.  It's almost like they just ran into each other, face to face.

Awful call.

I fully expect Jaylan Ford to be called for it sometime in the 1st quarter and ejected.

[Zone Read 299]

11 hours ago, Valmy77 said:

The NCAA rejected the appeal. We aren't leaving that.

The appeal was of a Big XII officiated call.  It never should have had to been appealed.  This conference is fucking us over for having the audacity to leave.

[Pam Cummings 9582]

15 minutes ago, JBJ said:

Hitting the knee area or below on a QB is also roughing now.  As is gator rolling a QB. 

In combination, all these changes are crazy.  Teams have been teaching rugby, gator, and chest tackling to avoid penalties.  Apparently all three are illegal against a QB now.  They are going to go back to shoulder thrust to midsection, which is far more dangerous.

I guess you're just supposed to lift the QB off their feet, throw them over your shoulder sack-of-potatoes style, and run the opposite direction until you hear a whistle.

[MirrOlure 14627]

Seems like banner material. text below:
 

165. Targeting and Making Forcible Contact in the Head or Neck Area of a Defenseless Player

Quarterback A7 drops back to pass. Blitzing linebacker B52 is unblocked [Overshown]. B52, with his head up, runs through A7, wrapping him up and making forcible contact with the facemask to the head of A7. B52's actions do not include an indicator of targeting. The referee throws a flag and (a) announces a foul for targeting a defenseless playerRULING: (a) The play is reviewed for all aspects of the targeting ruling: whether there was an indicator of targeting, whether A7 was defenseless, and whether forcible contact was made above the shoulders. Overturn the ruling of targeting and B52 is not disqualified. 

Can someone link this, or direct me upthread if it is linked?

[dcar00 14035]

11 hours ago, justhookit said:

Good grief you are insufferable. I know you can’t comprehend, but there was nothing that they deemed forcible. It’s the defenseless part they they fell back on and by watching the play and by RULE a face mask that hits the head is not targeting by itself. It’s been spelled out on this thread and the others. I’m sorry you still want to be a jackass. The intent to “save lives” that you’ve mentioned is ok, but that’s not what happened here.

I hope you have your helmet on when Derka shoulder checks you.

we must save lives. the big 12 guy even said significant force.  people will die if we don't have rules like this. these rules are awesome and make football so much safer.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10145]

Pretty sure they are offering Ultimate Frisbee "marking" as the preferred QB defense:

 

 

[Skipper 6103]

What's going to be interested now is does this set precedent?  This idiotic call got enough publicity that you know every damn official (replay and on field) in the country has watched it and formed an opinion.  If the appeals committee says this is targeting this is telling every official in the country to essentially call targeting if you touch a QB in the face.  Period.

Every season for probably 5 years now commentators and coaches have blasted this rule and talked about determining intent so you are only ejected to the extent it was clearly intentional.  What is it going to take for the idiots at the NCAA to make that change?   It is beyond absurd a player has to sit out a half for THAT fucking hit.

[ztejas 43266]

13 minutes ago, Skipper said:

 It is beyond absurd a player has to sit out a half for THAT fucking hit.

More than a half. Almost an entire game. 

[Had Enough 2057]

Oh - we definitely get routinely fucked by the B12. My point posting that Auburn play is that there are horseshit targeting calls all over the place. For that rule and punishment specifically it isn't just a Texas thing. 

Agreed. There needs to be some common sense approach, which I realize is asking a lot.

[Dahobbs 17447]

1 hour ago, MirrOlure said:

Can someone link this, or direct me upthread if it is linked?

You can download the case book here. I've quoted the text several times. 

https://www.ncaapublications.com/p-4647-2022-ncaa-football-case-book.aspx

 

[UncleBuck 6446]

1 minute ago, Had Enough said:

There needs to be some common sense approach

I hope it's that easy, or close to it. Unfortunately, I fear it will only get better, in college football, once the conferences clean out their conference officiating up top, while also leaving the NCAA.