The Night Vision Fanatics Thread

[cabowabo 4687]

I thought it was time that we had a dedicated night vision thread.  Sure, we could discuss this in the hunting or gun owner's thread but it would just get buried in pictures of junior's first buck or Armybrat's cowboy gun pics.  Those subjects really don't move the needle for serious operators such as myself.  

I bought my first night vision optic in June of 2018.  It was an ATN X-SIght 4k 3x14. This was a great optic and I put down many a hog with it.  A couple of weeks ago, I decided it was time to go thermal.  I bought an ATN Thor 4 384x288 2x8 scope.  ATN has a pretty shoddy reputation in the NV world, and I thought about Pulsar, but those scopes are a bit more than the ATN.  While I consider myself a Surly 1%er, I just wasn't willing to spend that much.  So far I have not had any issues with the scope and the picture quality is outstanding.  Below is the first kill with the Thor 4.  The amount of wildlife visible in the pasture is unbelievable.  Upon seeing all these critters, my immediate thought was to get a 22 with a threaded barrel, a 22 can, and have my own real animal shooting gallery.  That was until I saw the cute bunnies frolicking in the second video below taken in black hot. I don't think I can shoot a rabbit now, so I'll stick to pigs. So far, I prefer white hot for scanning, and will be shooting in black hot.

Since picking up the Thor, I've decided that I need a handheld thermal for scanning purposes.  Scanning with a rifle in just not feasible.  So, I have a Flir PTS233 on order.  This is actually a rifle scope, but it should work well as a handheld scanner.  And I can always slap it on a rifle if my son wants to go on a mission with me.  The ATN X-Sight in on Ebay.  If anyone is interested, let me know and I'll make you a sweet deal. 

So, here we go.  Let's talk night vision my friends. 

  

 

 

[Handcruser 2815]

Thanks for the review. I’ve been jonesing for some NV to put on a 300bo or 6.5c.


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[deadshank 24654]

I have toyed with the notion of night optics.  The only downside is cost.  Too cheap is performance problematic. Most allsomenestest ever is cost prohibitive.  

Middle of the road performance / price name, model and cost?

Do tell, Surly nighttime operators. 

[cabowabo 4687]

The cost of thermal, while coming down, is still pretty high as it conventional night vision (PVS14, etc).  But, you can get in the game and be effective at engaging swine for $500 to $700 via digital night vision. This will involve the use of a IR light. The ATN X-Sight 4k is great, and Sightmark just came out with the Wraith a few months ago that is supposed to be good at $499. Downside to the Wraith is that it records video and no audio, whereas the X-Sight records both. 

My Flir PTS233 should be delivered tomorrow, and I may have to go on a nighttime mission tomorrow night. I’ll use it as a scanning/spotting scope and take any shots with my Thor 4.  The MSRP of the PTS233 is $2200, but I got it for $1800 via Big Daddy Unlimited during a trial membership. We’ll see how it compares to the Thor 4, and I’ll post my thoughts upon the completion of the mission. 

Edited November 20, 2019 by cabowabo

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4999]

Is there anything decent that can mount behind a red dot in the digital night vision world?

[Lat22 4086]

For comparison sake, here is a mission I completed using ATN Xsight 4K.  Coincidentally from the same stand. I also included a short clip of some coyotes that were at least 200 yards off. 

 

[Cajun 11772]

Great thread and timely.

I'm in the market for thermal (looking at ATN and Pulsar).  From my research Wabo's takes so far are dead-on-balls accurate.  There are YouTubes out there showing side by side comparisons and the upshot for me has been if you want a really really (Herman) clear pic at long distance and you're willing to pay more than double, get Pulsar.  If you can handle just a really (only one, sorry Tom) good pic and give up a bit of clarity at long distance (beyond 200 yards or so), then ATN is just fine and a LOT easier on the bank account.

That's just what I've picked up and unlike Wabo, I don't have any first hand experience.

Keep the opinions, experience, and videos coming.  

This shit is as helpful as it is entertaining.

One suggestion, this background audio needs to be substituted in for the deer blind bumping and fumbling around...

 

Edited November 20, 2019 by Cajun

[woohorn 1131]

Anyone ever try playing night golf with NV goggles?

Got to be a way to heat up the pin and ball with some kind of radioactive waste or paint?

[Cajun 11772]

With the daughter of the Dean?

[cabowabo 4687]

Here is a good comparison of the ATN Thor 4 and the Pulsar Thermion.  I think the picture quality is better on the ATN.  This is assuming the settings are not off on the Pulsar....this guy seems to be slanted in favor of ATN on his other videos.

The Thor 4 I got is the 384 2x8 which has an MSRP of $2499.  That's the price you'll pay if you buy direct from ATN.  But, you can find their scopes discounted via other authorized dealers.  I got mine at sportsmansoutfitters.com for $2,049.00.  And, ATN is running a $200 rebate on the Thor 4 line of thermals through 12/31/19, so the price is actually $1,849.  Pretty much everywhere I look, the comparable Pulsar Thermion XM38 sells for the MSRP of $3299, and I don't see those being discounted.  That's $1450 more than I paid for my Thor 4.  Also, my Thor has a base magnification of 2 while the XM38 has a base magnification of 4.  I would not want a base magnification of 4 because it limits your field of view and makes follow up shots a lot harder.  To get a lower base magnification in a Thermion, you have to jump up to their XP38 and those are $4500.

ATN has a shoddy reputation among NV geeks.  I think a lot of it is based on bad customer service the past and they probably do have more issues with their scopes.  The first Thor 4 I got had a faulty shutter, so I had to send it back to the seller.  The replacement is operating fine so far.  In buying an ATN, I'd make sure the seller has a liberal return policy and make sure you buying from an authorized seller for warranty purposes and to get the rebate.  There are some good facebook pages for ATN scopes, and you can find more info there than forums.  One of  the ATN Thor Owners group.  You can post questions there and get answers almost immediately.    

 

 

Edited November 20, 2019 by cabowabo

[Cajun 11772]

Here ya go woo horn.  Go to the 10:20 mark...

 

[G650 14437]

Is anyone actually a night vision fanatic?

[cabowabo 4687]

I'm more of an operator than a fanatic, but too late to change the thread title.  One more thing on rifle mounted thermal or digital night vision.  You are going to need a night vision device to scan with also.  Scanning with the optic on your rifle gets real old real quick.  My brothers and I bought a Flir TK Scout for around $500 (link below).  If works ok out to about 100 yards for detection purposes, but the target has to be closer for identification purposes.  The picture quality is pretty bad, but it works and beats the hell out of holding up a rifle to scan. I'll use this handheld to scan and then turn on my rifle optic when I see a target to look at further and eliminate if necessary.   

https://www.amazon.com/FLIR-Scout-Handheld-Thermal-Imager/dp/B01APT3LF6/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=flir+tk&qid=1574271971&sr=8-4

Edited November 20, 2019 by cabowabo

[Cajun 11772]

3 minutes ago, cabowabo said:

Here is a good comparison of the ATN Thor 4 and the Pulsar Thermion.  I think the picture quality is better on the ATN.  This is assuming the settings are not off on the Pulsar....this guy seems to be slanted in favor of ATN on his other videos.

The Thor 4 I got is the 384 2x8 which has an MSRP of $2499.  That's the price you'll pay if you buy direct from ATN.  But, you can find their scope discounted via other authorized dealers.  I got mine at sportsmansoutfitters.com for $2,049.00.  And, ATN is running a $200 rebate on the Thor 4 line of thermals through 12/31/19, so the price is actually $1,849.  Pretty much everywhere I look, the comparable Pulsar Thermion XM38 sells for the MSRP of $3299, and I don't see those being discounted.  That's $1450 more than I paid for my Thor 4.  Also, my Thor has a base magnification of 2 while the XM38 has a base magnification of 4.  I would not want a base magnification of 4 because it limits your field of view and makes follow up shots a lot harder.  To get a lower base magnification in a Thermion, you have to jump up to their XP38 and those are $4500.

ATN has a shoddy reputation among NV geeks.  I think a lot of it is based on bad customer service the past and they probably do have more issues with their scopes.  The first Thor 4 I got had a faulty shutter, so I had to send it back to the seller.  The replacement is operating fine so far.  In buying an ATN, I'd make sure the seller has a liberal return policy and make sure you buying from an authorized seller for warranty purposes and to get the rebate.  There are some good facebook pages for ATN scopes, and you can find more info there than forums.  One of  the ATN Thor Owners group.  You can post questions there and get answers almost immediately.    

 

 

This is the Pulsar I've been looking at.  

Apples and oranges, I know...

https://www.ballisticmag.com/2019/01/21/pulsar-trail-xp50-thermal-test/

 

 

[PRONG HORN 3219]

Gen 4 is great for looking to see what's flying around up there.  

[Your Mom 4968]

What kind of NV would I buy for my old man if he just wants to sit on his porch and scope out animals at night.  He's not a hunter so it need not be a rifle scope.  I haven't looked through MV since the big ass bulky ones we were issued in the 90's.  They worked great but we hated carrying them around.  

[Sbbruin 22142]

 

 

[hornbri 1508]

1 hour ago, Your Mom said:

What kind of NV would I buy for my old man if he just wants to sit on his porch and scope out animals at night.  He's not a hunter so it need not be a rifle scope.  I haven't looked through MV since the big ass bulky ones we were issued in the 90's.  They worked great but we hated carrying them around.  

I am curious on this as well. 

[Lat22 4086]

1 hour ago, Your Mom said:

What kind of NV would I buy for my old man if he just wants to sit on his porch and scope out animals at night.  He's not a hunter so it need not be a rifle scope.  I haven't looked through MV since the big ass bulky ones we were issued in the 90's.  They worked great but we hated carrying them around.  

PVS 14. 

[cabowabo 4687]

2 hours ago, Your Mom said:

What kind of NV would I buy for my old man if he just wants to sit on his porch and scope out animals at night.  He's not a hunter so it need not be a rifle scope.  I haven't looked through MV since the big ass bulky ones we were issued in the 90's.  They worked great but we hated carrying them around.  

As with most things, it depends how much you want to spend. PVS14 if you’re budget is unlimited. If limited, check out the ATN Binox and Binox 4k. These are digital night vision with an IR light. Probably $400 to $800.  

A friend of mine lent me his PVS14 which I have been using for a couple of months. The advantage of these over thermal is that they work looking through glass such as a windshield. Thermal will not work trying to look through glass. They are also dependent on how much ambient light you have around you. On a moonless night, they won’t look as good as they do when there is some moonlight. They are really badass, but I’ve had deer standing out at 100 yards that I could easily see with my thermal but they were much harder to see through the PVS14.  Cool thing about thermal is the way shit just jumps out.  With the PVS14, you still have to see stuff in the traditional sense 

Got my Flir PTS233 in today.  It is built like a tank, and I think it’ll make a good monocular when I’m not using it as a scope  First impression is that the Thor 4 has better picture quality, but I could never use it to double duty as a monocular because it’s much longer like a traditional scope.  I’ll probably go on a hunt tomorrow and will do some side by side video which I’ll upload to YouTube for comparison purposes  

 

Edited November 21, 2019 by cabowabo

[Your Mom 4968]

Whoa.  $3k - $4k for the PVS14.   Pops might be stuck with a really nice flashlight for Christmas.  I'll check out the budget models.

[cabowabo 4687]

You got to pay if you want to own the night. 

[Cajun 11772]

Talk about owning the night.

This fuckin' guy right here...

Close to 400 yards on that last shot.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Cajun

[Lat22 4086]

The only easy day was yesterday. 

[Cajun 11772]

Looks just like this guy.  "Schwack 'em!"...

[Cajun 11772]

Rick James Bitch!

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4999]

PVS 14 is like 20 year old tech. How is it so expensive still?

[Cajun 11772]

Now, for me, if money were no object?

This...

 

Edited November 21, 2019 by Cajun

[cabowabo 4687]

That kind of expenditure would be pretty hard to hide from the wife.......

[Cajun 11772]

Well, if the wife knows what's good for her she'd realize that kind of expenditure would make it pretty hard for the wife to hide from you.

So,

Advantage aggy

[markstanco 12786]

17 hours ago, Your Mom said:

What kind of NV would I buy for my old man if he just wants to sit on his porch and scope out animals at night.  He's not a hunter so it need not be a rifle scope.  I haven't looked through MV since the big ass bulky ones we were issued in the 90's.  They worked great but we hated carrying them around.  

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1008677743?pid=754423

I have one of these, and it works GREAT in my back yard when I hear a noise.  I would guess the range is 75-100 yards with the illuminator in blackness.  Slight light and obviously it would go farther.  

[markstanco 12786]

On 11/20/2019 at 10:58 AM, woohorn said:

Anyone ever try playing night golf with NV goggles?

Got to be a way to heat up the pin and ball with some kind of radioactive waste or paint?

That is one way to get out of green fees.

 

Also, you can use one of those "snap sticks" that stay lit for 10 hours or so.  I used to play some drunk tourney night golf and that is what we did, but with glow in the dark golf balls. 

[Cajun 11772]

That'd be Cyalume Light Stick.

Great for catchin' swordfish too.

Ya know, if you happen to have a thousand feet of saltwater in the backyard..

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2779]

We used the Pulser XM 38 last weekend that my buddy purchased.
Agreed that white hot was best but our main problem was that we didn’t see squat roaming around.

[markstanco 12786]

1 minute ago, T’Boo Ted Marshall said:

We used the Pulser XM 38 last weekend that my buddy purchased.
Agreed that white hot was best but our main problem was that we didn’t see squat roaming around.

Thats because the animals know when you have night vision.  The moment you dont have it, you will hear them from 75 yards away, laughing. 

[Cajun 11772]

Pure nerd out, but if you ever wondered about Microns and such, this ain't bad...

 

[cabowabo 4687]

Took this one out this evening.  I need to research if something can be done to reduce the wind noise.  I thought this was a mother with a baby, and maybe it was, but the one I killed was pretty small.  The other one must have been tiny.  Looks like I hit it, but it ran off.

 

[cabowabo 4687]

Killer deal on a digital night vision scope for those wanting to dip their toes into the night vision game. 
https://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/sightmark-photon-rt-45-x-42s-digital-night-vision-riflescope?campid=71700000049902338&adgroupid=58700004909386915&device=c&keyword=39700042451650851&Channel=ps&gclid=Cj0KCQiAt_PuBRDcARIsAMNlBdqJDqdjJ7EuA_DHtDOGzz8bcKOHQKxWLHV97SV6DadGGRthMhG9TU0aAnKjEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[Cajun 11772]

Lord that's cheap.

I've read some pretty negative stuff on Sightmark, but for that price I might take a flyer just for shits and grins.

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2779]

Buddy just replaced it with the XM 38.
The ATN would go grey after one shot so it currently sits in his garage. It’s out of warranty so no sense in fixing it.

[TwiceHorn 32075]

4 minutes ago, Cajun said:

Lord that's cheap.

I've read some pretty negative stuff on Sightmark, but for that price I might take a flyer just for shits and grins.

Curious what you've read negative?

They're a client of mine, and they are trying to improve the quality and features of imported Chinese optics.

[Cajun 11772]

I think it was mostly reviews I read on their Thermal Wraithm, but I know I saw a few on their NV stuff as well.

The upshot of the complaints was "Grainy" and "Won't turn on/Stay on" right outta the box.

That said, there were some very good reviews as well.

People seem to be all in or all out on their products.

 

Edited November 29, 2019 by Cajun

[TwiceHorn 32075]

QC may be an issue, it is Chinese, after all.

The Pulsar NV stuff comes from a Lithuanian company and is less problematic.

[Cajun 11772]

Yeah, I'm currently looking at Pulsar and the Halo LR.

That No Easy Day kook is using the latter in that video I posted earlier in the thread and it sure give a nice image at distance.

I had it in my shopping cart and had my finger on the return button for "buy" but peeled off at the last moment with a couple more glances at the price.

Ooph.

[cabowabo 4687]

Spotted a sounder this evening with my thermal monocular while driving to another spot to call for coyotes.  Decided to conduct a ground operation.  Couldn't open up on them as I would have liked because Highway 285 was not too far downrange.  So, the body count was low.

 

[Lat22 4086]

They were clearly reconnoitering our FOB. Glad you were able to disrupt them. 

[Cajun 11772]

I woulda sent Dan out there with his fuckin' knife.

[Cajun 11772]

14 hours ago, Lat22 said:

They were clearly reconnoitering our FOB. Glad you were able to disrupt them. 

There was only one option - Terminate the compromise.

[Cajun 11772]

17 down in less than 3 minutes.

Piglet pink mist...

 

Edited December 1, 2019 by Cajun

[Cajun 11772]

I'll be in my bunk...